Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
Well, I'll add some totally unrelated experience and analysis. I play Frisbee with my dogs. We do it at an elite level. If you've seen discdogs on TV more than once, you've most likely seen me and some of my dogs. Discdoggers have had a very rough time as a community. Talk about fractious, petty and downright nasty, some of our history makes Amanda Andrew look like a kids spat. Anyway, let me share with you my understanding of the problems in our community, and how and why I think it went down. I've seen the same things play out in Japan and Europe, in the discdog community, and I am sure that it is some kind of human dynamic when it comes to semi- professional knowledge and talent based endeavors. OK. So, in the mid-90s, we had a couple of creative personalities that started doing a lot of training, and they were good at it. These creative people were good friends and shared their knowledge freely. Each person benefitted from this shared knowledge and their relationship. Needless to say there was some kind of split, and each creative person went their own way. Taking their knowledge, their 'stuff', that they once shared freely with them. It became 'my stuff' - 'my knowledge' . He is taking my stuff. He didn't come up with that, that's my stuff. Both of these people started to teach and to develop their own organizations based upon 'their stuff'. 'Stuff' that they developed together. Now She is profiting from my stuff! and vice versa. Because it is a small community, and personal relationships are the glue that hold it together, factions developed based upon each person's clique. These factions grew to large percentages of the community, as one could barely do anything without encountering one faction or the other. One of the main focuses of the split were on making money: I don't want my money going to that organization. I don't want to pay his bills. This soon got out of hand, and the one thing that could not be done was to do something for profit within the community. Somebody would get pissed off and cause a stink. Then their friends would hop on the bandwagon, and the project would get shut down because it was too much of a hassle. Discdogging is a real passion for people, and changes to the ability to express and engage in that passion are a serious issue to all members of the community. That's it, in a nutshell, I think. I think that this comes into play in this community as well. I taught Verdi how to do that! Now he's writing a book. Dude, Hudack got that idea from me. and so on. As people split off and take away the knowledge that was freely given and shared, and profit from it, it causes problems. Add to it the 'sellout factor' for BIG MONEY, and we have some serious opportunity for nastiness. That no-talent Congdon... and so on... So that's what I think the dynamic is, and I don't think it bodes well for free and open collaboration. In fact, I'm surprised that this community is as open and free as it is still. I really hope that continues, as I have learned boatloads from this community and hope to do so long into the future. I hope nobody took offense at my purposefully clumsy statements of fake-fact. I was simply trying to make a point. Some of my solutions to this dynamic, in the disdog world, which is still an ongoing endeavor: Make sure that I always remember who taught me what, and cite it, like a footnote: Marcus Wolff taught me this. I learned this one from Craig Rogers. etc. Do good by the community: I have given lots of people lots of stuff for free. I am always approachable and available at events, and I even go out of my way to help people out. If they are working on something and I can help them, I bust on in and help them. Speak up when something needs to be said: and say the things that are on the community's mind but are not getting exposure. Steve Elbows is a good example in this group. Anyway, I just thought I would share some of my experience in this thread, as I do believe it is applicable to the situation with online video distribution and specifically with the lack of collaborative energy right now. Cheers, Ron Last year, Network2 probably would have gotten On Dec 20, 2006, at 3:02 PM, leanbackvids wrote: Thanks Sull for the background info. Ironically the conversation about collaboration has halted. Someone posted the other day that we are in an Age of Narcissusism. Maybe it is generally true that vloggers are self-driven, and that is the reason community collaboration has been difficult. The part that has always frustrated me about the level of community participation is that it IS self-rewarding to contribute and collaborate with various sites. This Yahoo group is a perfect example... How many people have a vlog but remain lurkers here? Those who post regularly have become known in the community. Technically, it is probably
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
The closest efforts that I am aware of are ourmedia.org and node101.org. Ourmedia is still lost in orbit but I know there are some efforts to do a relaunch/refocus. Node101... they succeeded in raising money from vloggercon ($20k?). But I do not know what the money will go towards in the coming year or if there is an interest in funding software development etc. I'm not sure what projects are in store at Node101. Else... A project that is not in and of itself a nonprofit organization but is hosted and supported by one is Videobloggers.org This was my project in partnership with ibiblio.org. ibiblio does not have extra resources to help beyond the free hosting (last i heard). I have on more than one occasion asked for help in completing/relaunching that project but no response. Maybe thats some sort of gauge to the effect of what you are saying, matt. sull On 12/19/06, leanbackvids [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Couldn't we create a non-profit organization and build the Web app under it's ownership? Would others work for that? How successful have other attempts been? I don't know. -Matt http://vlogmap.org -- Sull http://vlogdir.com (a project) http://SpreadTheMedia.org (my blog) http://interdigitate.com (otherly) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
- I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not the directory's feed of my stuff) - I want my work's license displayed I find this list of points to be spot on as the primary concerns. I think FireAnt, Network2 and vlogdir/vlogmap serve three different types of purposes and each can be treated differently with regards to these questions. I was just emailing with Jeff Pulver and it sounds like he previously had the foresight for exactly all of this and may have already changed some of it. As more and more online video content emerges, no one has yet surfaced as the entry point for online serial content besides iTunes which is not apt for democratic inclusively. I'm going to give the 'most likely to succeed' award in 2007 to Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2, Video on the Net and Pod-camp, for having emerged basically just this year with these projects, shooting up overnight, and having the best of intents and heart (for I have gotten to know both this year and this last point is the very strongest quality behind everything). Before I hop off my support-wagon here, most importantly for all of us, I expect 2007 is going to require a major battle with Net Neutrality. This battle has already happened before when audio transmission over the internet had become democratized. On February 12, 2004, Mr. Pulver's petition for clarification declaring Free World Dial-up as an unregulated information service was granted by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). . . Now referred to as the Pulver Order, the ruling provides important clarification that computer-to-computer VoIP service is not a telecommunications service. By doing this, the FCC delivered a strong signal to consumers and capital markets that the FCC is not interested in subjecting end-to-end IP Communications services to traditional voice telecommunications regulation under the Communications Act. In otherwords, having co-founded Vonage, Jeff fought to make sure stuff like Skype could be free. Even Apple voice chat and podcasting would have been at risk. With regards to tomorrow's internet, Pulver has been hot on the case and may be one of the best positioned people to help keep internet video transmission free as well. On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:24 AM, Michael Verdi wrote: Here are my thoughts... The reality is there is money to be made in aggregating and presenting content. In other words it's a commercial use of people's content. Maybe a site doesn't have ads or even charges money for content but if they get lots of viewers because they have lots of content then, as we've seen with YouTube, they can be valuable. That's value built on the backs of others. Now I think if you opt-in to something that isn't displaying your license or linking to your permalink or is putting ads around your stuff than you've obviously agreed to that. No problem there. On the other hand, if like in the case of Network2, you have to opt-out then that's not cool at all. Some of my content is up there and I've never been asked about it. I have no agreement with them though they are, in my opinion, commercially using my content. Even if you could somehow argue that it wasn't a commercial use, they still aren't displaying the terms of my license. I also noticed while looking around that Fireant.tv has added ads to the page since I last checked. Not cool guys. There weren't any ads when I opted in. So what do I want from a directory? - I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not the directory's feed of my stuff) - I want my work's license displayed I think this is the minimum required. -Verdi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
I agree with almost everything Andrew says below, in spirit, (I say, in spirit, because I don't know Jeff Pulver or Chris Brogan), especially with respect to the importance of net-neutrality being central in 2007 ... However, one point I would disagree on - Andrew said ... As more and more online video content emerges, no one has yet surfaced as the entry point for online serial content besides iTunes which is not apt for democratic inclusively. I'm going to give the 'most likely to succeed' award in 2007 to Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2 ... having the best of intents and heart Personally, I would substitute blip.tv for the Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2 part IMHO ... Blip has the ideal philosophy with serialized content, based on the idea that blip is there to aid and facilitate the creator in disseminating in the widest and most open possible way, with no effort, on blip's part to own or brand the content as their own ... plus I have come to know a lot of the blip people well and I can't imagine than anyone else could beat the team at blip.tv in terms of having the best of intents and heart ... Richard (the blip fan) On 12/18/06, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not the directory's feed of my stuff) - I want my work's license displayed I find this list of points to be spot on as the primary concerns. I think FireAnt, Network2 and vlogdir/vlogmap serve three different types of purposes and each can be treated differently with regards to these questions. I was just emailing with Jeff Pulver and it sounds like he previously had the foresight for exactly all of this and may have already changed some of it. As more and more online video content emerges, no one has yet surfaced as the entry point for online serial content besides iTunes which is not apt for democratic inclusively. I'm going to give the 'most likely to succeed' award in 2007 to Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2, Video on the Net and Pod-camp, for having emerged basically just this year with these projects, shooting up overnight, and having the best of intents and heart (for I have gotten to know both this year and this last point is the very strongest quality behind everything). Before I hop off my support-wagon here, most importantly for all of us, I expect 2007 is going to require a major battle with Net Neutrality. This battle has already happened before when audio transmission over the internet had become democratized. On February 12, 2004, Mr. Pulver's petition for clarification declaring Free World Dial-up as an unregulated information service was granted by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). . . Now referred to as the Pulver Order, the ruling provides important clarification that computer-to-computer VoIP service is not a telecommunications service. By doing this, the FCC delivered a strong signal to consumers and capital markets that the FCC is not interested in subjecting end-to-end IP Communications services to traditional voice telecommunications regulation under the Communications Act. In otherwords, having co-founded Vonage, Jeff fought to make sure stuff like Skype could be free. Even Apple voice chat and podcasting would have been at risk. With regards to tomorrow's internet, Pulver has been hot on the case and may be one of the best positioned people to help keep internet video transmission free as well. On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:24 AM, Michael Verdi wrote: Here are my thoughts... The reality is there is money to be made in aggregating and presenting content. In other words it's a commercial use of people's content. Maybe a site doesn't have ads or even charges money for content but if they get lots of viewers because they have lots of content then, as we've seen with YouTube, they can be valuable. That's value built on the backs of others. Now I think if you opt-in to something that isn't displaying your license or linking to your permalink or is putting ads around your stuff than you've obviously agreed to that. No problem there. On the other hand, if like in the case of Network2, you have to opt-out then that's not cool at all. Some of my content is up there and I've never been asked about it. I have no agreement with them though they are, in my opinion, commercially using my content. Even if you could somehow argue that it wasn't a commercial use, they still aren't displaying the terms of my license. I also noticed while looking around that Fireant.tv has added ads to the page since I last checked. Not cool guys. There weren't any ads when I opted in. So what do I want from a directory? - I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
I'm curious-- what do some of the people in this discussion think of flickr as a service, site, and business? (Adam, Steve, etc) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
exactly, michael. network2 aside when others have come here talking about building a new directory/portal/guide and so on... i usually say.. hey thats sounds fine and dandy... welcome i hope you add value and not just wrap your new site with ads etcetera. granted, adding value can be a new discussion in order to figure out what that can and should mean exactly. its certainly not just about launching a web based socialized content aggregator. i agree with richard about blip. but also remember that they only show what is hosted by them, not what is hosted elsewhere on the net. that's in their interest but it does leave open opportunities for net wide aggregatory services and the ones that add at least some level of value to the community of content creators should always be appreciated. so, let's talke about 'added value'. sull On 12/18/06, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's what I love about Blip (I think Richard would agree) - THEY ADD VALUE. Does Network2 add value? -Michael On 12/18/06, Richard (Show) Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]richard%40richardshow.com wrote: I agree with almost everything Andrew says below, in spirit, (I say, in spirit, because I don't know Jeff Pulver or Chris Brogan), especially with respect to the importance of net-neutrality being central in 2007 ... However, one point I would disagree on - Andrew said ... As more and more online video content emerges, no one has yet surfaced as the entry point for online serial content besides iTunes which is not apt for democratic inclusively. I'm going to give the 'most likely to succeed' award in 2007 to Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2 ... having the best of intents and heart Personally, I would substitute blip.tv for the Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2 part IMHO ... Blip has the ideal philosophy with serialized content, based on the idea that blip is there to aid and facilitate the creator in disseminating in the widest and most open possible way, with no effort, on blip's part to own or brand the content as their own ... plus I have come to know a lot of the blip people well and I can't imagine than anyone else could beat the team at blip.tv in terms of having the best of intents and heart ... Richard (the blip fan) On 12/18/06, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED]andrew%40rocketboom.com andrew%40rocketboom.com wrote: - I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not the directory's feed of my stuff) - I want my work's license displayed I find this list of points to be spot on as the primary concerns. I think FireAnt, Network2 and vlogdir/vlogmap serve three different types of purposes and each can be treated differently with regards to these questions. I was just emailing with Jeff Pulver and it sounds like he previously had the foresight for exactly all of this and may have already changed some of it. As more and more online video content emerges, no one has yet surfaced as the entry point for online serial content besides iTunes which is not apt for democratic inclusively. I'm going to give the 'most likely to succeed' award in 2007 to Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2, Video on the Net and Pod-camp, for having emerged basically just this year with these projects, shooting up overnight, and having the best of intents and heart (for I have gotten to know both this year and this last point is the very strongest quality behind everything). Before I hop off my support-wagon here, most importantly for all of us, I expect 2007 is going to require a major battle with Net Neutrality. This battle has already happened before when audio transmission over the internet had become democratized. On February 12, 2004, Mr. Pulver's petition for clarification declaring Free World Dial-up as an unregulated information service was granted by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). . . Now referred to as the Pulver Order, the ruling provides important clarification that computer-to-computer VoIP service is not a telecommunications service. By doing this, the FCC delivered a strong signal to consumers and capital markets that the FCC is not interested in subjecting end-to-end IP Communications services to traditional voice telecommunications regulation under the Communications Act. In otherwords, having co-founded Vonage, Jeff fought to make sure stuff like Skype could be free. Even Apple voice chat and podcasting would have been at risk. With regards to tomorrow's internet, Pulver has been hot on the case and may be one of the best positioned people to help keep internet video transmission free as well. On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:24 AM, Michael Verdi
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
I've stayed out of this discussion thus far, but I wanted to chime in and say there's a fundamental difference between a directory service and a network service. A network implies partnership. A directory does not. -Rick Rey On 12/18/06, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's what I love about Blip (I think Richard would agree) - THEY ADD VALUE. Does Network2 add value? -Michael On 12/18/06, Richard (Show) Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]richard%40richardshow.com wrote: I agree with almost everything Andrew says below, in spirit, (I say, in spirit, because I don't know Jeff Pulver or Chris Brogan), especially with respect to the importance of net-neutrality being central in 2007 ... However, one point I would disagree on - Andrew said ... As more and more online video content emerges, no one has yet surfaced as the entry point for online serial content besides iTunes which is not apt for democratic inclusively. I'm going to give the 'most likely to succeed' award in 2007 to Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2 ... having the best of intents and heart Personally, I would substitute blip.tv for the Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2 part IMHO ... Blip has the ideal philosophy with serialized content, based on the idea that blip is there to aid and facilitate the creator in disseminating in the widest and most open possible way, with no effort, on blip's part to own or brand the content as their own ... plus I have come to know a lot of the blip people well and I can't imagine than anyone else could beat the team at blip.tv in terms of having the best of intents and heart ... Richard (the blip fan) On 12/18/06, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED]andrew%40rocketboom.com andrew%40rocketboom.com wrote: - I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not the directory's feed of my stuff) - I want my work's license displayed I find this list of points to be spot on as the primary concerns. I think FireAnt, Network2 and vlogdir/vlogmap serve three different types of purposes and each can be treated differently with regards to these questions. I was just emailing with Jeff Pulver and it sounds like he previously had the foresight for exactly all of this and may have already changed some of it. As more and more online video content emerges, no one has yet surfaced as the entry point for online serial content besides iTunes which is not apt for democratic inclusively. I'm going to give the 'most likely to succeed' award in 2007 to Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2, Video on the Net and Pod-camp, for having emerged basically just this year with these projects, shooting up overnight, and having the best of intents and heart (for I have gotten to know both this year and this last point is the very strongest quality behind everything). Before I hop off my support-wagon here, most importantly for all of us, I expect 2007 is going to require a major battle with Net Neutrality. This battle has already happened before when audio transmission over the internet had become democratized. On February 12, 2004, Mr. Pulver's petition for clarification declaring Free World Dial-up as an unregulated information service was granted by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). . . Now referred to as the Pulver Order, the ruling provides important clarification that computer-to-computer VoIP service is not a telecommunications service. By doing this, the FCC delivered a strong signal to consumers and capital markets that the FCC is not interested in subjecting end-to-end IP Communications services to traditional voice telecommunications regulation under the Communications Act. In otherwords, having co-founded Vonage, Jeff fought to make sure stuff like Skype could be free. Even Apple voice chat and podcasting would have been at risk. With regards to tomorrow's internet, Pulver has been hot on the case and may be one of the best positioned people to help keep internet video transmission free as well. On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:24 AM, Michael Verdi wrote: Here are my thoughts... The reality is there is money to be made in aggregating and presenting content. In other words it's a commercial use of people's content. Maybe a site doesn't have ads or even charges money for content but if they get lots of viewers because they have lots of content then, as we've seen with YouTube, they can be valuable. That's value built on the backs of others. Now I think if you opt-in to something that isn't displaying your license or linking to your permalink or is putting ads around your stuff than you've obviously agreed to that. No
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
a network can contain and present itself as a directory though. but yes, i see your point. For instance, http://revision3.com is a network because they have original content partnerships. but partnerships can also be made with aggregator/directory services. sull On 12/18/06, Rick Rey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've stayed out of this discussion thus far, but I wanted to chime in and say there's a fundamental difference between a directory service and a network service. A network implies partnership. A directory does not. -Rick Rey On 12/18/06, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED]michael%40michaelverdi.com wrote: Here's what I love about Blip (I think Richard would agree) - THEY ADD VALUE. Does Network2 add value? -Michael On 12/18/06, Richard (Show) Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]richard%40richardshow.com richard%40richardshow.com wrote: I agree with almost everything Andrew says below, in spirit, (I say, in spirit, because I don't know Jeff Pulver or Chris Brogan), especially with respect to the importance of net-neutrality being central in 2007 ... However, one point I would disagree on - Andrew said ... As more and more online video content emerges, no one has yet surfaced as the entry point for online serial content besides iTunes which is not apt for democratic inclusively. I'm going to give the 'most likely to succeed' award in 2007 to Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2 ... having the best of intents and heart Personally, I would substitute blip.tv for the Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2 part IMHO ... Blip has the ideal philosophy with serialized content, based on the idea that blip is there to aid and facilitate the creator in disseminating in the widest and most open possible way, with no effort, on blip's part to own or brand the content as their own ... plus I have come to know a lot of the blip people well and I can't imagine than anyone else could beat the team at blip.tv in terms of having the best of intents and heart ... Richard (the blip fan) On 12/18/06, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED]andrew%40rocketboom.com andrew%40rocketboom.com andrew%40rocketboom.com wrote: - I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not the directory's feed of my stuff) - I want my work's license displayed I find this list of points to be spot on as the primary concerns. I think FireAnt, Network2 and vlogdir/vlogmap serve three different types of purposes and each can be treated differently with regards to these questions. I was just emailing with Jeff Pulver and it sounds like he previously had the foresight for exactly all of this and may have already changed some of it. As more and more online video content emerges, no one has yet surfaced as the entry point for online serial content besides iTunes which is not apt for democratic inclusively. I'm going to give the 'most likely to succeed' award in 2007 to Jeff Pulver and Chris Brogan with Network2, Video on the Net and Pod-camp, for having emerged basically just this year with these projects, shooting up overnight, and having the best of intents and heart (for I have gotten to know both this year and this last point is the very strongest quality behind everything). Before I hop off my support-wagon here, most importantly for all of us, I expect 2007 is going to require a major battle with Net Neutrality. This battle has already happened before when audio transmission over the internet had become democratized. On February 12, 2004, Mr. Pulver's petition for clarification declaring Free World Dial-up as an unregulated information service was granted by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). . . Now referred to as the Pulver Order, the ruling provides important clarification that computer-to-computer VoIP service is not a telecommunications service. By doing this, the FCC delivered a strong signal to consumers and capital markets that the FCC is not interested in subjecting end-to-end IP Communications services to traditional voice telecommunications regulation under the Communications Act. In otherwords, having co-founded Vonage, Jeff fought to make sure stuff like Skype could be free. Even Apple voice chat and podcasting would have been at risk. With regards to tomorrow's internet, Pulver has been hot on the case and may be one of the best positioned people to help keep internet video transmission free as well. On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:24 AM, Michael Verdi wrote: Here are my thoughts... The reality is there is money to be made in aggregating and
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
On Dec 18, 2006, at 5:23 PM, sull wrote: so, let's talke about 'added value'. No one has put it all together in one easy place to discover. Its an obvious missing gap and the value to everyone is immense. For this reason, I believe (so far) the directory part of the conversation should be not be opt-in and perhaps not even give the option to opt-out. A directory is just a collection of links. The best directory will need to send ace spiders out to collect links. Remember when Podcasting first came out and there were more podcasting directories than there were podcasts? What happened? Its so decentralized (this has its many merits too) but nothing emerged as the place to go to find it anything. With videoblogging, no single directory has emerged either. There is a big value to everyone for a Google-sized Search location for online video. There would be great value in a full on Technorati of videoblogging. There would be a great value in a digg for video too. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
Andrew, I'm not trying to get in an argument with you but I am interested in a clarification of your thoughts here. In the past you've written to this list about all the trouble you've had with sites that have sucked in the Rocketboom feed allowing people to watch episodes embeded in pages that kind of made it look as if Rocketboom had some relationship with the site. Obviously you feel something is different here with Network2. Can you explain why you see this as different? -Verdi On 12/18/06, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 18, 2006, at 5:23 PM, sull wrote: so, let's talke about 'added value'. No one has put it all together in one easy place to discover. Its an obvious missing gap and the value to everyone is immense. For this reason, I believe (so far) the directory part of the conversation should be not be opt-in and perhaps not even give the option to opt-out. A directory is just a collection of links. The best directory will need to send ace spiders out to collect links. Remember when Podcasting first came out and there were more podcasting directories than there were podcasts? What happened? Its so decentralized (this has its many merits too) but nothing emerged as the place to go to find it anything. With videoblogging, no single directory has emerged either. There is a big value to everyone for a Google-sized Search location for online video. There would be great value in a full on Technorati of videoblogging. There would be a great value in a digg for video too. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
Obviously you feel something is different here with Network2. Can you explain why you see this as different? -Verdi Sure, it all comes down to the people. The aggregator I complained about recently involved a guy who threatened to sue Rocketboom. This aggregator involves a guy who has reached out and offered to help Rocketboom, time and time again. I am certain that the only reason why Blip is doing well right now is because of the people. Thats what distinguished them. As I mentioned earlier, I have spent a lot of time with Chris and Jeff this year and after getting to know them and hearing about their vision, learning about their resources, and seeing the speed of their activity, Id say they have an extremely well funded, very experienced, super spirited outlook. -- I met Chris at Podcamp when he started it in Boston, where he and I first met Jeff. I then went to the on to meet up with Chris and Jeff on many other occasions and conferences this year. We have all been talking recently about sharing a studio space here in Manhattan as well. --- Im personally focused on creating more content right now but with regards to all of you this leads me to this thought, again: I've often said out loud to the various parties involved that it would be great to join Vlogmap and Vlogdir (directories), FireAnt (software ap) and Mefeedia (database) all together for a killer app, esp. because of the talents of the people involved that could be shared to develop the uber work. With Network2 (currently an online aggregator), Blip (hosting) and all of the extra stuff that each of these bring to the table, you would have a major indi-meregr of support. I realize its a crazy idea, but if I wasn't busy, I'd do more than just suggest it. On Dec 18, 2006, at 8:50 PM, Michael Verdi wrote: Andrew, I'm not trying to get in an argument with you but I am interested in a clarification of your thoughts here. In the past you've written to this list about all the trouble you've had with sites that have sucked in the Rocketboom feed allowing people to watch episodes embeded in pages that kind of made it look as if Rocketboom had some relationship with the site. Obviously you feel something is different here with Network2. Can you explain why you see this as different? -Verdi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
Here are my thoughts... The reality is there is money to be made in aggregating and presenting content. In other words it's a commercial use of people's content. Maybe a site doesn't have ads or even charges money for content but if they get lots of viewers because they have lots of content then, as we've seen with YouTube, they can be valuable. That's value built on the backs of others. Now I think if you opt-in to something that isn't displaying your license or linking to your permalink or is putting ads around your stuff than you've obviously agreed to that. No problem there. On the other hand, if like in the case of Network2, you have to opt-out then that's not cool at all. Some of my content is up there and I've never been asked about it. I have no agreement with them though they are, in my opinion, commercially using my content. Even if you could somehow argue that it wasn't a commercial use, they still aren't displaying the terms of my license. I also noticed while looking around that Fireant.tv has added ads to the page since I last checked. Not cool guys. There weren't any ads when I opted in. So what do I want from a directory? - I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not the directory's feed of my stuff) - I want my work's license displayed I think this is the minimum required. -Verdi
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
So what do I want from a directory? - I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not the directory's feed of my stuff) - I want my work's license displayed I think this is the minimum required. I agree (since April 05 ;-) You submitted your vlog in May 05: http://vlogdir.com/permalink/136 I guess the only open issue is about the ability to play video on vlogdir.com. I always looked at it as a way to preview content before choosing to subscribe or bookmark the site. But I will watch this discussion and will consider making the embedded videos from a submitted vodcast an opt-in as well. Since vlogdir is community-drive directory and is opt-in, i assume most are aware that videos are playable on the site and that is ok. But if you login, you can always edit/delete your vlog and/or feed. Also, at some point in 2007, I am going to upgrade vlogdir with a new UI and a few new features. I'd love feedback from anyone who is reading. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vlogdir-users/ Cheers, Sull On 12/18/06, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are my thoughts... The reality is there is money to be made in aggregating and presenting content. In other words it's a commercial use of people's content. Maybe a site doesn't have ads or even charges money for content but if they get lots of viewers because they have lots of content then, as we've seen with YouTube, they can be valuable. That's value built on the backs of others. Now I think if you opt-in to something that isn't displaying your license or linking to your permalink or is putting ads around your stuff than you've obviously agreed to that. No problem there. On the other hand, if like in the case of Network2, you have to opt-out then that's not cool at all. Some of my content is up there and I've never been asked about it. I have no agreement with them though they are, in my opinion, commercially using my content. Even if you could somehow argue that it wasn't a commercial use, they still aren't displaying the terms of my license. I also noticed while looking around that Fireant.tv has added ads to the page since I last checked. Not cool guys. There weren't any ads when I opted in. So what do I want from a directory? - I want it to be opt-in - I want prominent link to my site - I want a link to the post's permalink - I want a link to my feed (not the directory's feed of my stuff) - I want my work's license displayed I think this is the minimum required. -Verdi -- Sull http://vlogdir.com (a project) http://SpreadTheMedia.org (my blog) http://interdigitate.com (otherly) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
This is the context from which you should have started with us, Chris. On 12/16/06, [chrisbrogan.com] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got this hilarious bunch of emails from David at Mommy.tv (a really great show- and if you've seen The Clip Show, Jim Kirks called me out!). It TOTALLY seems to point out what some of the animosity is: David has four emails from four separate companies saying almost the same thing. We're one in a series. All of them say something like, This is really great stuff. We'd love to feature you. Blah blah. Believe me, four is a small number. There will be 104 by the end of 2007. Some will have most people's best interest in mind. Some will be a silly idea. Some will make it just by having the right connections. Some will become notorious for making crucial missteps. Network2 might be no different. Who am I to say? But I have some thoughts on why *I* think we're different. I've been at this doing various video projects for a while now (I did New Media School before http://smallboxes.blip.tv ). My boss, Jeff Pulver, has been promoting the fact that independent video creation and distribution is key to the future, that sharing via RSS is important, and that this space needs to stay open and not walled (most IPTV deals are walled garden content). We promote sharing via easy distribution. We promote downloadable content so that people can enjoy shows on a portable device, while off the Internet, etc. (If I had to fly to San Fran without a laptop full of videoblogs, I'd have gone snakey.) We would love to help folks make money through bringing content together. The argument that paying me means we have money to pay videobloggers for content is interesting, but I can't think of a proper and non-snarky response. I worked 90+ hours a week since April (40 for my old day job) and 50 on my own video and audio projects plus PodCamp. The 50+ hours were unpaid. I actually found a job where I'm paid to meet the community through events like PodCamp, the Halloween Videoblog Fest, the Vloggies, PME, Video on the Net, etc. I'm paid to reach out to people and try to bring more attention to your work. I don't think I'll apologize for that. You'll have plenty of choices to make over 2007 and maybe some of 2008. The choices will entail how you want to proceed with your projects, how you want to be represented or not in this space. You'll see some people making huge deals with major traditional studios (oh wait! We already did). You'll see some people make decent cash their own way (did you buy a duckie?) We're offering a way to point people to your sites, your work. We've built ways for you to share collections of your favorite shows with others. We've built tagging, sharing, etc. Swing by. Oh, and just one more time for the chorus: If you like the site, but we've somehow got something wrong about your page, let me know and we'll work to fix it (iteratively at times). There's only two developers and they're working their head off to build more features). If you don't want to be on the site, please contact me via email or phone. If you want to meet up when I'm somewhere near your neck of the woods, I'll always post event invites, because I always want to meet folks. I'm sleepy and happy to be back to Boston. --Chris... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
For the record sull, those feeds came in from blip, vimeo, vsocial, etc. via our ping service. The other end (blip, vsocial) had to send us the data...more like being fed than sucking ;) It is an old service that isn't in action anymore. And yes, some of them are a pain now and that's an appropriate nickname As far as the rss thing, yeah if you put it out there then anyone can grab it, but one would hope that you have your cc licensing in it and we all hope that the site that is consuming it is adhering to your license. Thanks, Devlon Duthie http://mefeedia.com | Find Videoblogs http://devlonduthie.com | My Site sull wrote: well i will chime in *again*. i have nothing truly against network2. they communicate here and seem like smart, decent people in this space. of course, that is also in best business interests but hey you cant be too skeptical otherwise you would be... paranoid. i've claimed this before, but its important to repeat it especially when a thread like this invites it. vlogdir.com is OPT-IN. from day 1 in April 2005, the directory has been a community-driven directory. I didnt populate it. YOU did. and I am proud of that because i think it is an interesting gauge of this vlog community. I also think that it works mostly as a passive filter. Meaning, people actually take a few moments to submit their videoblog and vodcast (rss feed). That means that they think they have something good to share with others. so they choose to take some measures to do that sharing. vlogdir is always a top 10-20 result in google... so it helps somewhat. I also believe that vlogmap.org has worked this way for almost as long. though i totally love mefeedia they are not only opt-in and they actually went through a period when they sucked in a boat-load of feeds from other services like blip, vimeo, vsocial, youtube etc. i call most of those feeds orphans. but mefeedia is like the best overall vlog/feed aggregator i think and they do a tremendous amount of right stuff so, this is in no way to traject anything negative on mefeedia. they rock and when i can, i help them out with feedback. fireant.tv is opt-in too but last i checked, they also add in their own selections as well. the weird part is the fact that any feed you enter in the app, gets added to a database as part of a review queue and if it looks tasty, it will end up on the web directory. i think you can opt-out of that happening on mac version. but many feeds on fireant.tv are added by fireant themselves as well as the community (whether intended or not). the only time i truly think its nasty to add feeds without opt-in is when some site appears out of nowhere and sucks in feeds and wraps ads around everything. they are obviously just trying to rank high in search results and make a few bucks. no value back to the community and no value to the publishers. its cheap and its dirty. and it creates a bad reputation too. RSS... yes if you put out a feed, as a general rule you are syndicating your content to anyone on the web. Preferably, you want that content grabbed by an audience, not by random aggregator sites. But you also realize that some of the reputable aggregator sites actually do help you gain exposure and get traffic and distribute your media. More people can subscribe to you. It can be a very good thing if you actually want to spread your media. But you should respect the aggregator and if you dont, you should be able to tell them to remove your content. and they should respond asap. network2 seems like they are trying to add value to the community. i think they might succeed. we'll see. vlogdir.com... well the project was one of the originals to come out of this community and its in auto-pilot. it still serves and represents the vlogosphere but i have not personally focused on evolving the project. after all, it is what it is. what else can it be? i promote vlogs that i like a lot... on the site and elsewhere. and every once in a while i need to delete some vietnam tourism site etc but for the most part, the directory has been problem free. thats a success story. to me at least. maybe in 2007, i will carve a little time out to improve the site. in mean time, make sure any agg-newcomers work like mefeedia, vlogdir, fireant, vlogmap, blip. the originals who give full attribution and add value to the community. oh, i suppose network2 as well ;) sull On 12/14/06, Markus Sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i think i see a difference aren't fireant and mefeedia opt-in ? also, i don't think they *feature* sites from people who wish otherwise On Dec 14, 2006, at 1:32 PM, Heath wrote: I don't see what you are doing as any different than Fireant, or MeFeedia, etc. You are providing a way to view video on the web, vlogs, etc.at least you are providing link backs and other things,
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
Independent producers, the ones doing innovative things, creative things, with their CONTENT, are being left behind in the billion dollar Youtube new media revolution. There are people doing very impressive, intelligent, timeless things. Many of which, idealistically, have no ulterior motives other than to create art. I wrap Richard BF and several other amazing people into this category. They aren't selling me anything. But the people that seem to be glorified in this Videoblogging Yahoo! group are the ones that cater to the lowest common denominator. There was an inherent honesty involved when I joined this group. Inherent because we were all just responding to each other's videos. And I understand that we have outgrown that simplicity (it's become Youtube). I'd like to retain some of that structure if possible though. I'm not sure if it is. I can no longer sit idly by reading glowing reviews of Amanda Across America or Galacticast. I happen to think Casey is a very nice woman. I just think what she and Amanda Congdon are trying to do to the personal media revolution is very contrary to what I think should be happening. Because they are both SHIT. I'm not saying you shouldn't post about either of these pieces of shit, just saying that I can no longer read this email list without responding appropriately to my conscience. Apologies to anyone offended. Ok, AQ On 12/15/06, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well i will chime in *again*. i have nothing truly against network2. they communicate here and seem like smart, decent people in this space. of course, that is also in best business interests but hey you cant be too skeptical otherwise you would be... paranoid. i've claimed this before, but its important to repeat it especially when a thread like this invites it. vlogdir.com is OPT-IN. from day 1 in April 2005, the directory has been a community-driven directory. I didnt populate it. YOU did. and I am proud of that because i think it is an interesting gauge of this vlog community. I also think that it works mostly as a passive filter. Meaning, people actually take a few moments to submit their videoblog and vodcast (rss feed). That means that they think they have something good to share with others. so they choose to take some measures to do that sharing. vlogdir is always a top 10-20 result in google... so it helps somewhat. I also believe that vlogmap.org has worked this way for almost as long. though i totally love mefeedia they are not only opt-in and they actually went through a period when they sucked in a boat-load of feeds from other services like blip, vimeo, vsocial, youtube etc. i call most of those feeds orphans. but mefeedia is like the best overall vlog/feed aggregator i think and they do a tremendous amount of right stuff so, this is in no way to traject anything negative on mefeedia. they rock and when i can, i help them out with feedback. fireant.tv is opt-in too but last i checked, they also add in their own selections as well. the weird part is the fact that any feed you enter in the app, gets added to a database as part of a review queue and if it looks tasty, it will end up on the web directory. i think you can opt-out of that happening on mac version. but many feeds on fireant.tv are added by fireant themselves as well as the community (whether intended or not). the only time i truly think its nasty to add feeds without opt-in is when some site appears out of nowhere and sucks in feeds and wraps ads around everything. they are obviously just trying to rank high in search results and make a few bucks. no value back to the community and no value to the publishers. its cheap and its dirty. and it creates a bad reputation too. RSS... yes if you put out a feed, as a general rule you are syndicating your content to anyone on the web. Preferably, you want that content grabbed by an audience, not by random aggregator sites. But you also realize that some of the reputable aggregator sites actually do help you gain exposure and get traffic and distribute your media. More people can subscribe to you. It can be a very good thing if you actually want to spread your media. But you should respect the aggregator and if you dont, you should be able to tell them to remove your content. and they should respond asap. network2 seems like they are trying to add value to the community. i think they might succeed. we'll see. vlogdir.com... well the project was one of the originals to come out of this community and its in auto-pilot. it still serves and represents the vlogosphere but i have not personally focused on evolving the project. after all, it is what it is. what else can it be? i promote vlogs that i like a lot... on the site and elsewhere. and every once in a while i need to delete some vietnam tourism site etc but for the most part, the directory has been problem free.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
After re-reading that it appears that I called Casey shit. I do not think that Casey McKinnon is Shit. I think that Galacticast is Shit. On 12/15/06, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Independent producers, the ones doing innovative things, creative things, with their CONTENT, are being left behind in the billion dollar Youtube new media revolution. There are people doing very impressive, intelligent, timeless things. Many of which, idealistically, have no ulterior motives other than to create art. I wrap Richard BF and several other amazing people into this category. They aren't selling me anything. But the people that seem to be glorified in this Videoblogging Yahoo! group are the ones that cater to the lowest common denominator. There was an inherent honesty involved when I joined this group. Inherent because we were all just responding to each other's videos. And I understand that we have outgrown that simplicity (it's become Youtube). I'd like to retain some of that structure if possible though. I'm not sure if it is. I can no longer sit idly by reading glowing reviews of Amanda Across America or Galacticast. I happen to think Casey is a very nice woman. I just think what she and Amanda Congdon are trying to do to the personal media revolution is very contrary to what I think should be happening. Because they are both SHIT. I'm not saying you shouldn't post about either of these pieces of shit, just saying that I can no longer read this email list without responding appropriately to my conscience. Apologies to anyone offended. Ok, AQ On 12/15/06, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well i will chime in *again*. i have nothing truly against network2. they communicate here and seem like smart, decent people in this space. of course, that is also in best business interests but hey you cant be too skeptical otherwise you would be... paranoid. i've claimed this before, but its important to repeat it especially when a thread like this invites it. vlogdir.com is OPT-IN. from day 1 in April 2005, the directory has been a community-driven directory. I didnt populate it. YOU did. and I am proud of that because i think it is an interesting gauge of this vlog community. I also think that it works mostly as a passive filter. Meaning, people actually take a few moments to submit their videoblog and vodcast (rss feed). That means that they think they have something good to share with others. so they choose to take some measures to do that sharing. vlogdir is always a top 10-20 result in google... so it helps somewhat. I also believe that vlogmap.org has worked this way for almost as long. though i totally love mefeedia they are not only opt-in and they actually went through a period when they sucked in a boat-load of feeds from other services like blip, vimeo, vsocial, youtube etc. i call most of those feeds orphans. but mefeedia is like the best overall vlog/feed aggregator i think and they do a tremendous amount of right stuff so, this is in no way to traject anything negative on mefeedia. they rock and when i can, i help them out with feedback. fireant.tv is opt-in too but last i checked, they also add in their own selections as well. the weird part is the fact that any feed you enter in the app, gets added to a database as part of a review queue and if it looks tasty, it will end up on the web directory. i think you can opt-out of that happening on mac version. but many feeds on fireant.tv are added by fireant themselves as well as the community (whether intended or not). the only time i truly think its nasty to add feeds without opt-in is when some site appears out of nowhere and sucks in feeds and wraps ads around everything. they are obviously just trying to rank high in search results and make a few bucks. no value back to the community and no value to the publishers. its cheap and its dirty. and it creates a bad reputation too. RSS... yes if you put out a feed, as a general rule you are syndicating your content to anyone on the web. Preferably, you want that content grabbed by an audience, not by random aggregator sites. But you also realize that some of the reputable aggregator sites actually do help you gain exposure and get traffic and distribute your media. More people can subscribe to you. It can be a very good thing if you actually want to spread your media. But you should respect the aggregator and if you dont, you should be able to tell them to remove your content. and they should respond asap. network2 seems like they are trying to add value to the community. i think they might succeed. we'll see. vlogdir.com... well the project was one of the originals to come out of this community and its in auto-pilot. it still serves and represents the vlogosphere but
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
As to Network2's involvement in the personal media revolution 3rd paragraph of this http://www.evilvlog.com/?p=6256 deals with the underlying animosity that is brought upon video portal sites, and says exactly this for those that would rather not follow the link: The thing about Network2 or Network3 or Network4 is this: If you want to profit from the work of independent producers, you should ask them first. It's common courtesy. On 12/15/06, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After re-reading that it appears that I called Casey shit. I do not think that Casey McKinnon is Shit. I think that Galacticast is Shit. On 12/15/06, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Independent producers, the ones doing innovative things, creative things, with their CONTENT, are being left behind in the billion dollar Youtube new media revolution. There are people doing very impressive, intelligent, timeless things. Many of which, idealistically, have no ulterior motives other than to create art. I wrap Richard BF and several other amazing people into this category. They aren't selling me anything. But the people that seem to be glorified in this Videoblogging Yahoo! group are the ones that cater to the lowest common denominator. There was an inherent honesty involved when I joined this group. Inherent because we were all just responding to each other's videos. And I understand that we have outgrown that simplicity (it's become Youtube). I'd like to retain some of that structure if possible though. I'm not sure if it is. I can no longer sit idly by reading glowing reviews of Amanda Across America or Galacticast. I happen to think Casey is a very nice woman. I just think what she and Amanda Congdon are trying to do to the personal media revolution is very contrary to what I think should be happening. Because they are both SHIT. I'm not saying you shouldn't post about either of these pieces of shit, just saying that I can no longer read this email list without responding appropriately to my conscience. Apologies to anyone offended. Ok, AQ On 12/15/06, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well i will chime in *again*. i have nothing truly against network2. they communicate here and seem like smart, decent people in this space. of course, that is also in best business interests but hey you cant be too skeptical otherwise you would be... paranoid. i've claimed this before, but its important to repeat it especially when a thread like this invites it. vlogdir.com is OPT-IN. from day 1 in April 2005, the directory has been a community-driven directory. I didnt populate it. YOU did. and I am proud of that because i think it is an interesting gauge of this vlog community. I also think that it works mostly as a passive filter. Meaning, people actually take a few moments to submit their videoblog and vodcast (rss feed). That means that they think they have something good to share with others. so they choose to take some measures to do that sharing. vlogdir is always a top 10-20 result in google... so it helps somewhat. I also believe that vlogmap.org has worked this way for almost as long. though i totally love mefeedia they are not only opt-in and they actually went through a period when they sucked in a boat-load of feeds from other services like blip, vimeo, vsocial, youtube etc. i call most of those feeds orphans. but mefeedia is like the best overall vlog/feed aggregator i think and they do a tremendous amount of right stuff so, this is in no way to traject anything negative on mefeedia. they rock and when i can, i help them out with feedback. fireant.tv is opt-in too but last i checked, they also add in their own selections as well. the weird part is the fact that any feed you enter in the app, gets added to a database as part of a review queue and if it looks tasty, it will end up on the web directory. i think you can opt-out of that happening on mac version. but many feeds on fireant.tv are added by fireant themselves as well as the community (whether intended or not). the only time i truly think its nasty to add feeds without opt-in is when some site appears out of nowhere and sucks in feeds and wraps ads around everything. they are obviously just trying to rank high in search results and make a few bucks. no value back to the community and no value to the publishers. its cheap and its dirty. and it creates a bad reputation too. RSS... yes if you put out a feed, as a general rule you are syndicating your content to anyone on the web. Preferably, you want that content grabbed by an audience, not by random aggregator sites. But you also realize that some of the reputable aggregator sites
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
On Dec 15, 2006, at 6:30 AM, [chrisbrogan.com] wrote: As with any business, we'll work to create the appropriate relationships to share revenue when that comes about. For now, it's more about building awareness, driving attention to the work. I think that this often repeated statement has become the web 2.0 equivalent of the check is in the mail --- Markus Sandy http://feeds.feedburner.com/havemoneywillvlog http://feeds.feedburner.com/apperceptions http://feeds.feedburner.com/digitaldojo http://feeds.feedburner.com/spinflow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
On Dec 15, 2006, at 6:21 AM, [chrisbrogan.com] wrote: If EVER you don't want to be featured on Network2, please let me know. I have no problem with an easy opt-out. (Please email me or call me directly, because I might miss that call on this very active list). that's cheezy opt-out is not the same as opt-in you seem to be from the it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission school of thought how about asking first? as opposed to informing people after the fact --- Markus Sandy http://feeds.feedburner.com/havemoneywillvlog http://feeds.feedburner.com/apperceptions http://feeds.feedburner.com/digitaldojo http://feeds.feedburner.com/spinflow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
Chris, As with any business, we'll work to create the appropriate relationships to share revenue when that comes about. For now, it's more about building awareness, driving attention to the work. Has that caught on yet? The notion that what we're trying to do is separate what YOU do from the average ball-kicking video or skateboard trick video? You could always switch gears and create a new Net Video Review Show to accomplish an awareness campaign for the content that N2 feels is deserving. Others do this, like Steve garfield etc. Or maybe that is already planned in addition to having web real estate for ads/sponsors and video ads. sull On 12/15/06, [chrisbrogan.com] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As with any business, we'll work to create the appropriate relationships to share revenue when that comes about. For now, it's more about building awareness, driving attention to the work. Has that caught on yet? The notion that what we're trying to do is separate what YOU do from the average ball-kicking video or skateboard trick video? (Which are okay, and have their place, but aren't of great interest to what we're promoting). Show me how pointing people to what you do that we think is cool is bad. But yes, as for business, if (it better be WHEN) we raise the attention of the world of advertising and all those things, we're here to bring relationships about. One side note about Creative Commons. Today is the 4 year birthday, right? There's a party in NYC for that tonight (I can't make it, sadly). Also, check out Colette Vogel's Legal Guide to Podcasting on Creative Commons' website. It's a great work to know and understand per our other discussion (and I'm not the expert by any means on that). Best to you over the Holidays. By the way, Dear Vlog Santa: I want a wifi-enabled video iPod so I can load up on Batman Geek and Josh Leo without docking at home. I haven't been good. I've had too much to drink at meetups. I told rooms full of videobloggers bad things. I've taken my pants off just for video laughs with Jim Kirks of the Clip Show. :( But does that make me a bad man? --Chris... -- Sull http://vlogdir.com (a project) http://SpreadTheMedia.org (my blog) http://interdigitate.com (otherly) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
On Dec 15, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Chuck Olsen wrote: Here's a question I don't know the answer to: How does TV Guide work? Who pays whom? this may be related: http://www.cmcsk.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118591p=irol- newsArticleID=493748highlight= they also: 1. syndicate TV Guide Online Signs Agreements to Syndicate Its Program Listings Grids to Fox Interactive Media http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/061120/20061120005605.html?.v=1 2. patent Gemstar-TV Guide inks patent license agreement with Philips http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gemstar-tv-guide-inks-patent- license/story.aspx?guid=%7BC91BAB30-3DC3-40F3-8452-A86E3362FCDD%7D 3. and (once you have a patent) litigate Pioneer And TV Guide Sign Agreement Resolving Pending Litigation http://www.rtoonline.com/content/article/feb04/ pioneertvguideagreement022704.asp 4. merge with competitors Gemstar-TV Guide Assessed $5.67 Million Civil Penalty for Illegal Premerger Coordination http://www.perkinscoie.com/content/ren/updates/antitrust/ update_gemstar.htm from wikipedia, which has very little to say about chuck's question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Guide TV Guide is owned by Gemstar-TV Guide International, Inc., which is in turn owned partially by News Corporation. --- Markus Sandy http://feeds.feedburner.com/havemoneywillvlog http://feeds.feedburner.com/apperceptions http://feeds.feedburner.com/digitaldojo http://feeds.feedburner.com/spinflow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
i think i see a difference aren't fireant and mefeedia opt-in ? also, i don't think they *feature* sites from people who wish otherwise On Dec 14, 2006, at 1:32 PM, Heath wrote: I don't see what you are doing as any different than Fireant, or MeFeedia, etc. You are providing a way to view video on the web, vlogs, etc.at least you are providing link backs and other things, there are plenty of sites around that just take your feed and you would never know it. Ran across a few of those, now THAT bothers me, just taking, but I don't see what you are doing as wrong. IMO you have been honest and above board, so no worries on my end.. Heath http://batmangeek7.blogspot.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, [chrisbrogan.com] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Markus Sandy http://feeds.feedburner.com/havemoneywillvlog http://feeds.feedburner.com/apperceptions http://feeds.feedburner.com/digitaldojo http://feeds.feedburner.com/spinflow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
hmmm. what kind of *syndication* does that refer to? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndication i notice that the *implication* is that most are *paid* On Dec 14, 2006, at 4:25 PM, leanbackvids wrote: This eventually leads us to the question of RSS usage... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS_%28file_format%29#Usage RSS is short for Really Simple *Syndication*. When we publish our RSS files publicly, it is implied that we authorize the syndicating of our content. At that point, I think there is very little control over who/where/how your content is actually syndicated. The whole point is to free content, not restrict it. -Matt http://vlogmap.org --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Markus Sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i think i see a difference aren't fireant and mefeedia opt-in ? also, i don't think they *feature* sites from people who wish otherwise On Dec 14, 2006, at 1:32 PM, Heath wrote: I don't see what you are doing as any different than Fireant, or MeFeedia, etc. You are providing a way to view video on the web, vlogs, etc.at least you are providing link backs and other things, there are plenty of sites around that just take your feed and you would never know it. Ran across a few of those, now THAT bothers me, just taking, but I don't see what you are doing as wrong. IMO you have been honest and above board, so no worries on my end.. --- Markus Sandy http://feeds.feedburner.com/havemoneywillvlog http://feeds.feedburner.com/apperceptions http://feeds.feedburner.com/digitaldojo http://feeds.feedburner.com/spinflow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: RSS as Relationship Tool
well i will chime in *again*. i have nothing truly against network2. they communicate here and seem like smart, decent people in this space. of course, that is also in best business interests but hey you cant be too skeptical otherwise you would be... paranoid. i've claimed this before, but its important to repeat it especially when a thread like this invites it. vlogdir.com is OPT-IN. from day 1 in April 2005, the directory has been a community-driven directory. I didnt populate it. YOU did. and I am proud of that because i think it is an interesting gauge of this vlog community. I also think that it works mostly as a passive filter. Meaning, people actually take a few moments to submit their videoblog and vodcast (rss feed). That means that they think they have something good to share with others. so they choose to take some measures to do that sharing. vlogdir is always a top 10-20 result in google... so it helps somewhat. I also believe that vlogmap.org has worked this way for almost as long. though i totally love mefeedia they are not only opt-in and they actually went through a period when they sucked in a boat-load of feeds from other services like blip, vimeo, vsocial, youtube etc. i call most of those feeds orphans. but mefeedia is like the best overall vlog/feed aggregator i think and they do a tremendous amount of right stuff so, this is in no way to traject anything negative on mefeedia. they rock and when i can, i help them out with feedback. fireant.tv is opt-in too but last i checked, they also add in their own selections as well. the weird part is the fact that any feed you enter in the app, gets added to a database as part of a review queue and if it looks tasty, it will end up on the web directory. i think you can opt-out of that happening on mac version. but many feeds on fireant.tv are added by fireant themselves as well as the community (whether intended or not). the only time i truly think its nasty to add feeds without opt-in is when some site appears out of nowhere and sucks in feeds and wraps ads around everything. they are obviously just trying to rank high in search results and make a few bucks. no value back to the community and no value to the publishers. its cheap and its dirty. and it creates a bad reputation too. RSS... yes if you put out a feed, as a general rule you are syndicating your content to anyone on the web. Preferably, you want that content grabbed by an audience, not by random aggregator sites. But you also realize that some of the reputable aggregator sites actually do help you gain exposure and get traffic and distribute your media. More people can subscribe to you. It can be a very good thing if you actually want to spread your media. But you should respect the aggregator and if you dont, you should be able to tell them to remove your content. and they should respond asap. network2 seems like they are trying to add value to the community. i think they might succeed. we'll see. vlogdir.com... well the project was one of the originals to come out of this community and its in auto-pilot. it still serves and represents the vlogosphere but i have not personally focused on evolving the project. after all, it is what it is. what else can it be? i promote vlogs that i like a lot... on the site and elsewhere. and every once in a while i need to delete some vietnam tourism site etc but for the most part, the directory has been problem free. thats a success story. to me at least. maybe in 2007, i will carve a little time out to improve the site. in mean time, make sure any agg-newcomers work like mefeedia, vlogdir, fireant, vlogmap, blip. the originals who give full attribution and add value to the community. oh, i suppose network2 as well ;) sull On 12/14/06, Markus Sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i think i see a difference aren't fireant and mefeedia opt-in ? also, i don't think they *feature* sites from people who wish otherwise On Dec 14, 2006, at 1:32 PM, Heath wrote: I don't see what you are doing as any different than Fireant, or MeFeedia, etc. You are providing a way to view video on the web, vlogs, etc.at least you are providing link backs and other things, there are plenty of sites around that just take your feed and you would never know it. Ran across a few of those, now THAT bothers me, just taking, but I don't see what you are doing as wrong. IMO you have been honest and above board, so no worries on my end.. Heath http://batmangeek7.blogspot.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, [chrisbrogan.com] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Markus Sandy http://feeds.feedburner.com/havemoneywillvlog http://feeds.feedburner.com/apperceptions http://feeds.feedburner.com/digitaldojo http://feeds.feedburner.com/spinflow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- Sull
