Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
That's exactly correct, Deirdre. Through the audio/visual medium of videoblogging, we have maximized the amount of emotional information from which to draw conclusions about character and intent. Bingo. Jan -- It isn't done alone. Pay more. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/roadnode101/ - education http://fauxpress.blogspot.com - motion http://blog.urbanartadventures.com - sound http://vlogpresskit.blogspot.com - media http://the-hold.blogspot.com - literature . On Dec 9, 2005, at 2:40 PM, Deirdre Straughan wrote: I wonder if part of the reason we're mostly fairly polite to each other in here is that we do see each other, in our recorded videos and during live video conferences. I think it's much harder to be an asshole to someone whose face you can actually bring to mind, even if you're not face-to-face with them at the moment. -- best regards, Deirdré Straughan www.beginningwithi.com (personal) www.tvblob.com (work) YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS ▪ Visit your group videoblogging on the web. ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/I258zB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
I suppose this, civility of online discourse, is something I feel pretty strongly about (to whatever extent I ever feel strongly about anything)I can tolerate dumb people, fat people, ugly people, geeky people, dirty people, people with different views, kids that climb on rocks; I like to think I am tolerant of most all sorts of things, but I've never been tolerant of rude people - I have a lot of trouble tolerating assholes and, especially, when it's online in an environment when they are not talking to someone face to face - it's too easy I have this sort of core belief (to whatever extent I have any core beliefs) that the way we treat each other is not only important, it's everything. If someone is an asshole to other people, my feeling, is what else matters. Having said that, ironically, I also certainly agree, it's important to learn to ignore rudness to not retaliate in kind ... I read flames in email and long debates where people get personal and rude, and, the best thing to do is to not respond at all - and I don't - though I will admit a disturbing tendency to want to read the long occasional bloddy flaming personal attach threads ... One thing I like about this list, actually, now that I think about it, I like this about the vast majority of people I meet, is that people do make an effort to have civil discourse even when they disagree ... I appreciate that - it's just that the assholes tend to draw the attention, and maybe that sort of explains the behavior ... what am I talking about ... I don't know ... obviously I have some deep underlying disturbing issues, and, maybe had too much coffee and maybe I'm taking the day off from work and I'm finally catching up on yahoo emails and feeling driven to comment and ... I can't stop maybe I'm the real asshole ... oh my God ... exercise my asshold demons! ah! ... Richard, leaving to get another cup of coffee ... On 12/6/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com , Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like our boy raymond caught some interesting video at someconfenrce. mena trott from typepad and some audience member discussing how to behanve online.reminds me of some of the discussions we have on this grouop when we disagree. http://dltq.org/media/menavsben.mov (sorrry i found it in the delicious feed so i dont know the permalink). Here you are:http://www.dltq.org/?p=780 ;) jay -- Adventures in Videoblogging URL: http://www.momentshowing.net http://feeds.feedburner.com/Momentshowing http://getFireAnt.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM~-Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Richard http://www.richardshow.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 19:40:27 +0100, Richard Show [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a lot of trouble tolerating assholes and, especially, when it's online in an environment when they are not talking to someone face to face - it's too easy Once again it's time to bring out The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory: URL: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
I wonder if part of the reason we're mostly fairly polite to each other in here is that we do see each other, in our recorded videos and during live video conferences. I think it's much harder to be an asshole to someone whose face you can actually bring to mind, even if you're not face-to-face with them at the moment. -- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work) YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
I like to think that's true ... even if the face looks like mine :) ... good point Deirdre ... On 12/9/05, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder if part of the reason we're mostly fairly polite to each other in here is that we do see each other, in our recorded videos and during live video conferences. I think it's much harder to be an asshole to someone whose face you can actually bring to mind, even if you're not face-to-face with them at the moment. -- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal) www.tvblob.com (work) YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . -- Richard http://www.richardshow.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 00:04:25 +0100, Beth Kanter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: plus his conversation with Dave Winer on civility http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2005/12/07/dave-winer-wades-in/ Dave Winer: Fighting for civilty using rudeness since 1995. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/.QUssC/izNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
On Dec 7, 2005, at 5:23 PM, Enric wrote: With that an individual creates a particular work at a point in time that is their own unique creation. They have benefited from other innovators they've come in contact with directly or through their work. The benefit is individual for their ability to synthesize and make useful that interaction. As we are now seperate human beings, it is the individual that creates. Exactly. Because our society is so driven by ownership most particularly our capitalist systems which are fundamentally based on ownership the fundamental crisis is in understanding, and re-balancing these radical shifting of societal notions of ownership. In short as you say, we are separate individuals, we create separately, and at the same time societal ideas of ownership are shifting, we simultaneously must keep ownership well defined... It's fuscking tricky, because we're still in transition. The programing world was the first to start to start to come to terms with these cultural changes... and you can see this in the open document fight in Massachusetts. Then the world of print and news media shifted because text was so accessible and copyable. Even more so than programing code which can be protected by compiling it. In fact we've had many systems for managing this ownership in text for centuries.. i.e. quoting and attribution... Still it was not easy for print news media and they're still struggling though many are now finding great benefits and hence increased profits. We can look at these two systems for guidance as we transition media and rebalance notions of media ownership. However it is going to be a much harder and longer road (as it has been already, i.e. the P2P legal battle), and we've still got a long way to go. The identifying of this shift in ownership and the defining of it is the genius in Richard Stallman's legal framework the GNU public license. It defined this cultural shift in legal terms before anyone knew how central it was to the issue. Most people had no idea what was coming at the time, in fact Richard Stallman probably had no idea of the ramifications of what he was doing. The GNU public license is the basis for the tremendously influential world wide open source collaboration and what has become a new cultural movement. It's had an incalculable yet tremendous impact on global commerce. The Creative Commons then expanded that legal framework of open licensing into all forms of IP. These redefine legally the new balance of ownership which works completely within our traditional copyright and patent system thus laying the groundwork for what we now do. Interestingly these legal solutions to redefining ownership are the exact opposite approach that traditional media has taken... The creative commons and open source licenses work within the current legal framework to solve the problem by making law more accessible to the people and more flexible... meanwhile the traditional media complex have proposed DRM (digital rights management) which not only has questionable legal merits (cough. Sony root-kit! ahem.), but also make law more inaccessible to people by embedding it in the systems and the code where it is becomes rigid and inflexible. I don't think I need to further theorize on where these two opposing roads lead. So I'll leave that to you. I just say I find it hysterical, in a really f'd up way. Back on point... If this new legal groundwork for ownership was not established we wouldn't be able to re-vlog, or remix, or share media the way we do.. The simple act of FireANT pulling and caching content from blogs might have been questionably legal. Mefeedia's pulling of videos and other content into mefeedia so you can more easily browse, watch and share them would certainly have been illegal. Creative Commons is the legal framework that allows us this flexibility to make media move. What we're doing is putting those blueprints into action... by making media and mediated systems that take advantage of those new freedoms to create radical new very social media systems. Our rights are still protected and yet our media gains the infinite benefits of being shareable and sociable... unlike a hollywood movie, or a CD, or a TV show. It's in light of this radical redefinition of ownership and socialization of media that those traditional media entities will have to change with the times or risk loosing further relevance in our culture. Indeed just by existing and participating and doing our thing we are rapidly disproving and making irrelevant many of their political and legislative arguments for technological implementation of law, such as TPM (technological protection measures), DRM, and broadcast flags. I have a couple side notes... To me the solution for traditional media is obvious... it's to drop this technological
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
On Dec 7, 2005, at 6:30 PM, Enric wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 00:04:25 +0100, Beth Kanter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: plus his conversation with Dave Winer on civility http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2005/12/07/dave-winer-wades- in/ Dave Winer: Fighting for civilty using rudeness since 1995. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Dave is intelligent, innovative and irrational. ;) You guys rock. :) He's like a rock other people break upon. LOL I freaking love Dave Winer... he's so damn brutal... I've seen him jump on someones case at a conference, on video of course. Anyone ever listen to his podcasts? I have a desire to tune in again... It's been months. -Mike Michael Meiser http://mmeiser.com/blog - fun stuff http://mmeiser.com/backchannel - del.icio.us link blog http://evilvlog.com - serious lunacy has a new domain Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/I258zB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
On Dec 7, 2005, at 8:07 PM, Enric wrote: That is what I do on my vlogs, I watermark with the text cirne.com in the bottom right corner. I agree that is the rationaland probably primary method to place ownership on the visual media someone creates. See.. perfect... Now if only big media could follow suit. I'm so damn sick of steaming media files that don't stream don't play and aren't downloadable or linkable or referenceable. I tried to check out that Mena Trott video on CBS (off mena trotts blog) and it was infuriating. Didn't work on safari or firefox. I think... what would be FA more effective is either a) flash, or b) a downloadable mpeg4 with a CBS watermark, maybe the url on the final frame... and heh... if they want to get crazy a little cbs.com ad spot or 3rd party sponsorship after the video and before the url and credits on the final frame. I mean I know there's streaming infrustructure stuff there... but that's just B.S. We're all experts here in moving media... the issue is not efficiency it's usability and accessibility for craps sake. come on, am I talking crazy talk here? LOL :) -Mike Michael Meiser http://mmeiser.com/blog - fun stuff http://mmeiser.com/backchannel - del.icio.us link blog http://evilvlog.com - serious lunacy has a new domain On Dec 7, 2005, at 8:07 PM, Enric wrote: Interesting, thought provoking and inspiring conversation. I've snipped to the section I want to respond to: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I have a couple side notes... To me the solution for traditional media is obvious... it's to drop this technological implimentation of law... and focus on watermarking techniques. These uniquely identify content not to stop it from being stolen, but to identify and track it when and if it does become illegally sold and redistributed. This without the mandate that every media device made reads and obeys the watermark that would be illegal like DRM... but that when this media does appears in the public on illegal mass produced DVD's or on P2P networks it can be passively traced and tracked without the violation of civil rights. Watermarks are often impossible to remove and indeed removing them creates an even more obvious identifying mark. Like human finger prints or serial numbers the use of these techniques are a core part of our culture already and there are open legal systems in place for ensuring the balance of civil rights in these areas. So there's that... and then there's the fact that traditional media have to just put a foot in the fuscking game already like print news media did before them. That is what I do on my vlogs, I watermark with the text cirne.com in the bottom right corner. I agree that is the rationaland probably primary method to place ownership on the visual media someone creates. ;), Enric = http://www.cirne.com Determine the Media snip Peace, -Mike Michael Meiser http://mmeiser.com/blog - fun stuff http://mmeiser.com/backchannel - del.icio.us link blog http://evilvlog.com - serious lunacy has a new domain snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/I258zB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
But I don't think Adam Curry is proposing a decoupling of audio from rich-media web hyperlink environment. In fact, it's just the opposite. Curry is exploring new ways to add even greater textual information and links to podcasts, including having listeners provide added details on podcast topics. For his recent show, you have the blog entry: #292 Daily Source Code for Tuesday December 6th 2005 http://www.curry.com/2005/12/06#a54657 Which allows comments AND you have a link to Shownotes: http://www.shownotes.info/wiki/Category:Daily_Source_Code_Shownotes This show's notes are here: http://www.shownotes.info/wiki/DSC_292 A wiki based page for listeners to annotate the show notes... Very cool. The show isn't just finished when it is sent out on the RSS feed, it continues to grow with contributions from listeners. On Dec 6, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Enric wrote: Perhaps the mistake is by proponents like Adam Curry who come from a flat, centralized media radio and TV background for decoupling the audio from rich-media web hyperlink environment. --Steve -- Home Page - http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog - http://stevegarfield.blogs.com Text Blog - http://offonatangent.blogspot.com Like Paul Revere, leading the citizen's media revolution. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/.QUssC/izNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: mena trott
In the vein of shameless self promotion, I just thought I'd mention that the shownotes.info site is available for any and all pod and vidcasters who'd like to use it for their show. Obviously you can setup your own wiki for shownotes, but if you'd like to use shownotes.info then come on down.If you have any problems getting setup, drop me a line.-mOn 12/6/05, Steve Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I don't think Adam Curry is proposing a decoupling of audio from rich-media web hyperlink environment. In fact, it's just the opposite. Curry is exploring new ways to add even greater textual information and links to podcasts, including having listeners provide added details on podcast topics. For his recent show, you have the blog entry: #292 Daily Source Code for Tuesday December 6th 2005 http://www.curry.com/2005/12/06#a54657 Which allows comments AND you have a link to Shownotes: http://www.shownotes.info/wiki/Category:Daily_Source_Code_Shownotes This show's notes are here: http://www.shownotes.info/wiki/DSC_292 A wiki based page for listeners to annotate the show notes... Very cool. The show isn't just finished when it is sent out on the RSS feed, it continues to grow with contributions from listeners. On Dec 6, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Enric wrote: Perhaps the mistake is by proponents like Adam Curry who come from a flat, centralized media radio and TV background for decoupling the audio from rich-media web hyperlink environment. --Steve -- Home Page - http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog - http://stevegarfield.blogs.com Text Blog - http://offonatangent.blogspot.com Like Paul Revere, leading the citizen's media revolution. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . -- -mhttp://www.secretelite.com/michael YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
