Dear Daniel Many thanks for clarifying this. I am afraid I didn't make it very clear in my original e-mail but you have now made it really clear for me and I am very grateful. Sorry for any confusion caused.
I realized after I had sent my message that you hadn't copied your reply to the list. If you didn't intend it to appear on the list I must apologise for the faux pas. Best wishes Monica ----Original Message---- From: heiman.dan...@juno.com Date: 24/04/2018 7:02 To: <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>, <pe...@crispu.com> Subj: RE: [VIHUELA] Re: German translations Monica: My response was strongly prejudiced by the last sentence, obviously written by a modern commentator, which to me implies a context of a discussion of lessons for Leopold, presumably based on other evidence that is not mentioned in this brief excerpt. If there is no such context, then my interpretation is incorrect. The date range given, by itself, does not imply anything other than that the account book from which the historical quotation was taken covers the time period listed. It does not necessarily imply service rendered over a period of time. Only one monetary sum is mentioned, but there could have been a single payment or several. You won't know for sure until you can examine the account book or a facsimile of it. The situation would obviously have been clearer if the date or dates of the transaction(s) had been given rather than what apparently are just the dates for the beginning and end of the ledger book. "umbwillen" is probably "for the sake of" "beeden Khönigli Persohnen" is most likely, as Peter suggests, 'both royal personages," not just the young prince. Again, there is nothing in this passage that explicitly states that instruction was given. Taken by itself, it could describe simply a "command" performance on guitar. Regards, Daniel Heiman -----Original Message----- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: 23 April, 2018 11:23 To: pe...@crispu.com Cc: VihuelaList Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: German translations Thank you for your reply. I wondered about this. I came across the information in a roundabout way. It is referred to in the introduction to the Tree Edition of guitar pieces by Losy edited by Michael Treder. He says about it Der Gitarrenunterricht, den Kaiser Leopold I noch als der jung Erzherzog in der Zeit zwischen November 1648 – July 1649 in Wien durch Francesco Corbetta (ca. 1615-1681) erheilt. His source of reference is an article by Paul Nettl in Studien zur Musikwissenschaft (1929) which just gives the entry in the accounts. With my very imperfect knowledge of German I couldn't make out any reference to Corbetta teaching rather than just giving a performance - which is why I sought some expert advice. Leopold I would have been 8 years old at the time. I wonder if there is any other reference to him playing the guitar. Any more information or alternative translations would be very helpful. thank you Monica ----Original Message---- From: pe...@crispu.com Date: 23/04/2018 13:16 To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"<mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>, "heiman. daniel@juno. com"<heiman.dan...@juno.com> Cc: "VihuelaList"<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subj: RE: [VIHUELA] Re: German translations > on account (honor) of the instruction in guitar playing given I wonder if that is correct though. Would " umbwillen er vor beeden Khönigli Persohnen auf der Kittara gespielt" not be "while he played for (both?) royals on the guitar"? Regards Peter -----Original Message----- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 23, 2018 3:02 PM To: heiman.dan...@juno.com Cc: VihuelaList <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: German translations Thank you very much for your help. I thought the spelling might be odd because I couldn't find some of the words in the dictionary. Nor could Google translate. Best wishes Monica ----Original Message---- From: heiman.dan...@juno.com Date: 23/04/2018 12:34 To: <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Subj: RE: [VIHUELA] German translations Monica: This is an entry in the court financial records for the period 13 November (1648) to the end of July 1649: "To Johann Francisco Corbetta, on account (honor) of the instruction in guitar playing given to the royal person, 60 florins was handed over." (The guitar instruction that Kaiser Leopold received in Vienna, while still a young prince, from Francesco Corbetta, who lived from ca.1615 to 1681.) The ledger entry is full of deviations from the modern accepted spellings and word usage of the German language. Regards, Daniel Heiman -----Original Message----- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: 23 April, 2018 03:26 To: VihuelaList Subject: [VIHUELA] German translations I wonder if any kind person on the list whose knowledge of German is better than mine could translate the following into English. I can guess more or less what it is about but can't fathom out the details. He was played 60 fl. for whatever he did.... Eintrag in den Hofzahlamtsrechungen für den Zeitrum 13 November (1648) bis Ends July 1649 – Johann Francisco Corbetta Musico umbwillen er vor beeden Khönigli Persohnen auf der Kittara gespielt zur Verehrung dargeraicht 60 fl. Der Gitarrenunterricht, den Kaiser Leopold I noch als der jung Erzherzog in der Zeit zwischen November 1648 – July 1649 in Wien durch Francesco Corbetta (ca. 1615-1681) erheilt. Thanks for any help. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
