[VIHUELA] Canarios

2006-12-12 Thread Eloy Cruz
Dear Monica and list.

Many years ago (back in 1982!) I played the two sets of canarios in  
Codice Saldivar 4, and just decided that the strumming pattern in  
both of them was wrong and simply didn't play it...

Now I want to play them again but the strumming patterns are still  
something I can't understand. I checked Craig Russell's transcription  
and apparently he did the same as me: he decided that they were wrong  
and then corrected them. He says that, although the pieces are  
written in 6/4, the patterns are certainly in 6/4, but for the  
punteado sections, Murcia switches to 6/8, and Craig, for the sake of  
consistency, decided to transcribe everything in 6/8, which is a  
problem. One more problem is that he added some dots to the figures  
in the strumming section and comes out with a completely different  
rhythm as the one expressed in tablature, which certainly is closer  
to the rhythm of the punteado sections...

Obviously the pieces were written by Murcia in 6/4, which doesn't  
mean at all the same thing we understand by 6/4, but tiempo de  
sesquialtera as Murcia himself explains, but the strumming is not at  
all in 6/4, even by modern standards: if the strumming sections would  
have barlines, there would be something like nine 8th notes per bar,  
while the punteado sections have six 8th notes per bar.

I don't really understand Murcia's explanation, what is the meaning  
of  tiempo de sesquialtera? It implies a tempo or a rhythmic  
pattern or both?

Why are the rasgueado and punteado sections so different from one  
another? The rasgueado is offbeat (what we would call in Spanish  
atravesado) and the punteado is on the beat (derecho in Spanish)  
and with an amount of 8th notes per bar different in each one of  
them. In many pieces in CS4, the strumming sections have the same  
pattern as the punteado, so much so that you can use the rasgueado as  
an accompaniment to the punteado, but here it's just impossible. In  
fact, if you play both sections, it's like you are playing 2  
different pieces...

Steve Player says that this rasgueado atravesado could imply that  
there was a form of canario that was atravesado, but I've never seen  
any example of a canario of this kind.

Also, the usual keys for canarios seem to be por la C and por la  
A, these two keys would imply 2 different forms of canario?

Sorry if there are too many questions

Best wishes


Eloy Cruz



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[VIHUELA] Re: Canarios

2006-12-12 Thread Manolo Laguillo
Excuse me if you already know what I'm going to say:

'sesquialter' means, simply, 'one and a half', ie 1.5. It was 
represented,obviously, by a rectangle with the long side being 1.5 the 
measure of the small side (1:1.5). I would say, that's a triple time, a 
rythmic pattern.

Saludos from Barcelona,

Manolo Laguillo

PS A good explanation of this in: George L. Hersey, Architecture and 
Geometry in the Age of the Baroque, The Univ. of Chicago Press, 2000.
BTW, the author was a friend of Palisca

Eloy Cruz wrote:

Dear Monica and list.

Many years ago (back in 1982!) I played the two sets of canarios in  
Codice Saldivar 4, and just decided that the strumming pattern in  
both of them was wrong and simply didn't play it...

Now I want to play them again but the strumming patterns are still  
something I can't understand. I checked Craig Russell's transcription  
and apparently he did the same as me: he decided that they were wrong  
and then corrected them. He says that, although the pieces are  
written in 6/4, the patterns are certainly in 6/4, but for the  
punteado sections, Murcia switches to 6/8, and Craig, for the sake of  
consistency, decided to transcribe everything in 6/8, which is a  
problem. One more problem is that he added some dots to the figures  
in the strumming section and comes out with a completely different  
rhythm as the one expressed in tablature, which certainly is closer  
to the rhythm of the punteado sections...

Obviously the pieces were written by Murcia in 6/4, which doesn't  
mean at all the same thing we understand by 6/4, but tiempo de  
sesquialtera as Murcia himself explains, but the strumming is not at  
all in 6/4, even by modern standards: if the strumming sections would  
have barlines, there would be something like nine 8th notes per bar,  
while the punteado sections have six 8th notes per bar.

I don't really understand Murcia's explanation, what is the meaning  
of  tiempo de sesquialtera? It implies a tempo or a rhythmic  
pattern or both?

Why are the rasgueado and punteado sections so different from one  
another? The rasgueado is offbeat (what we would call in Spanish  
atravesado) and the punteado is on the beat (derecho in Spanish)  
and with an amount of 8th notes per bar different in each one of  
them. In many pieces in CS4, the strumming sections have the same  
pattern as the punteado, so much so that you can use the rasgueado as  
an accompaniment to the punteado, but here it's just impossible. In  
fact, if you play both sections, it's like you are playing 2  
different pieces...

Steve Player says that this rasgueado atravesado could imply that  
there was a form of canario that was atravesado, but I've never seen  
any example of a canario of this kind.

Also, the usual keys for canarios seem to be por la C and por la  
A, these two keys would imply 2 different forms of canario?

Sorry if there are too many questions

Best wishes


Eloy Cruz



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

  


--