I much prefer to have a sequential record of a discussion/thread rather
than having to go back to laboriously search for the relevant email to
see precisely what was said umpteen emails ago. As it is, the
well-recognised problem with this particular mode of communication is
that man
Dear Martyn,
I understand that there is a problem with the theorbo in A, in Caccini's
'Reggami.'
According to Alessandro Striggio the elder Caccini could accompany from a
bass on the lute and harpsichord. So, what would be the right
instrument/tuning for this song?
Lex
Other types of speci
Thanks Lex,
Caccini can speak for himself: 'the chitarrone is better suited to
accompany the voice, especially the tenor, than any other
instrument'.(G. Caccini, Le Nuove Musiche (Florence, 1602), sig. C2V
'Ai Lettori ... del Chitarrone ... essendo questo strumento piu atto
ad
Monica, you're absolutely right that by definition it's not continuous
bass when playing derived harmonies in the alfabeto. I was only
supposing that the harmonies are derived from the bass, and informed by
practice of bajo continuo. In that sense, it's a realization of
something, at a
Dear Chris,
I note Monica's comment below about the incorrect alfabeto chords being
used but I think it incorrect to suggest that the alfabeto
accompaniment was never informed by the harmonies implied by the bass
line ("but they are not informed by the practice of bajo
conti
I fear this is a lost cause. We will never get everyone to conform. But I
think that it is usually better to put one's reply at the top of the
message. It is not helpful in anyway to have to scroll though pages of
junk to find out what the writer has said.
Having said that - I think it is
All this is very interesting. I couldn't actually track down the song.
Which of Caccini's books is it in?
I had never realized that the mighty theorbo had problems reproducing the
bass line! But from what you say it seems that it is the same as on the
guitar. The lowest note is A with a b
I will try to follow our newly suggested protocol and reply at the top!
It depends on what you want to do. These songs probably continued to be
performed throughout the 17th century and there is no reason why they should
not be accompanied in the more complex way as illustrated by Foscarini
Well - what I actually said was
In theory the harmonies - at least in the printed books - are derived from
the bass line but they are not informed by the practice of bajo continuo.
There is some evidence that guitarists were indeed smart enough to spot some
of the obvious errors in the printed
The trouble with historic texts is that we don't know if they should be
interpreted literally.
Yes, the chitarrone is in general well-suited for accompaniment. But should
we suppose that Caccini considered the theorbo in A the best option for
every song, in every key?
Bass lines may sometimes ha
What other instrument do you suppose that he had in mind then? The only
instrument with a large enough compass to be able to reproduce the bass line
below the voice part in every set of circumstances would be a keyboard
instrument and possibly not all of these.
But plucked stringed instrumen
- Original Message -
From: "Monica Hall"
To: "Lex Eisenhardt"
Cc: "Vihuelalist"
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 3:56 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Caccini's instrument
What other instrument do you suppose that he had in mind then? The only
instrument with a large enough compass to b
Well - as Martyn pointed out - even with a lute in G there are situations
where you would have to play an F sharp up an octave even if the instrument
had extended basses.
There are quite a few later French sources which clearly indicate this.
You yourself have quoted Campion in your article -
You yourself have quoted Campion in your article -
"it is not necessary to be preoccupied by the jumping of the bass from
low to high register. It is sufficient that the note is there . Even
on the harpsichord etc"
But what Campion doesn't say is whether the bass would rise a
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 14:56:46 -, Monica Hall wrote
> What other instrument do you suppose that he had in mind then? The
> only instrument with a large enough compass to be able to reproduce
> the bass line below the voice part in every set of circumstances
> would be a keyboard instrument a
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:33:43 +0100, Lex Eisenhardt wrote
> Bass lines may sometimes have been simplified, and thus some of
> the problems could be avoided. Occasional voice crossings with the
> bass perhaps were sometimes accepted (but probably not by everyone). L
But this isn't the problem at
But this isn't the problem at all! There's nothing wrong with
voice crossings per se, only if the voices involved form a fifth, which
would change into a (frowned upon) forth. I have yet to find one example
where this would happen with a theorbo ...
Cheers, Ralf Mattes
Crossings with the oute
Excellent idea - I love harps.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: "R. Mattes"
To: "Monica Hall" ; "Lex Eisenhardt"
Cc: "Vihuelalist"
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:24 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Caccini's instrument
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 14:56:46 -, Monica Hall wrote
What oth
So far no-one has told me where I can find the song in question.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: "Lex Eisenhardt"
To: "R. Mattes"
Cc: "Vihuelalist"
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 7:51 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Caccini's instrument
But this isn't the problem at all! There's n
Dear Lex,
There is nothing wrong with the bass line of the theorbo crossing above
the tenor here and there, because those high notes are still perceived
as the bass line.
I have on my lap a copy of _Yorke Solos for Double Bass and Piano_, ed.
Rodney Slatford (London: Yorke Edition, 1984). If the
Priase God for the voice of common sense.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: "Stewart McCoy"
To: "Vihuela List"
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 9:22 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Caccini's instrument
Dear Lex,
There is nothing wrong with the bass line of the theorbo crossing above
the
Dear Monica,
A similar thing occurs with the cittern parts of Richard Allison's
_Psalmes of David in Meter_ (London, 1599). They would have been derived
from the bass line, but it would have been an unfigured bass, so
major/minor and 6/3-5/3 discrepancies would have been inevitable.
Best wishes,
That's interesting - but surely a competant cittern player
would not play them as writen but would correct them?
The point I was
making is that - yes - the chords have been derived from the bass line but
they are wrong because they do not take into account the voice part as well.
They do not obse
Thanks Stewart.
It is not that I can't believe that accompanists ever played notes above the
line of solo singers or solo instruments; but I rather doubt if Caccini
would have written bass lines which he could not play as they are, on his
own instrument. Therefore I tried to suggest that he m
It may be that he has simply notated the music in a non-specific way so that
it is suitable for performance by different instruments. It is left to
players to make the necessary adjustments depending on the instrument they
chose for the accompaniment. If we are talking about the 1601 book, may
Dear Monica,
Allison's _Psalmes_ are printed as a table book, similar to the books of
lute songs by John Dowland and others. The Cittern parts are in French
tablature, and are written upside down on the page above the Cantus and
Lute music. The next page has the Altus upside down, the Bassus sidew
Dear Martyn,
Please may I add something to your list of gripes. When people reply to
my messages, they often send me the same email twice: one to me and one
to the List to which I subscribe. This is unnecessary duplication, since
I usually want to read their message no more than once.
Sending an
Dear Lex,
One hesitates to mention it without 101 caveats, but what about a
theorbo in G? Evidence for such an instrument is pretty thin on the
ground (pace Praetorius), but at least some of Caccini's songs are in
flattish keys which would favour a theorbo in G.
I have not played any Caccini for
I can competently contribute to this topic.
1. Email is fundamentally a social phenomenon. That means lots
of different people are involved. Give up on uniform compliance
to any protocol. Even machines have a hard time doing that.
2. In general, most people stack discussions
Dear List
Although the subject of this thread is labeled "Strumming as basso
continuo", the exchange of different list members has to do with how to
conduct or organize the harmony in the fingerboard, not at all with
strumming.
I think the 2 main features of guitarra española de cinco órdenes are
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