[VIHUELA] Re: Typesetting scores
Fontographer is good, and for some reason, hand tweaking the font bitmaps (I'm on a Mac and created PostScript fonts) helped the display in the Articulation window. This is probably not an issue for PC TrueType fonts. FontLab is the newer program many professionals are now using. Very powerful, but also very dense. Unless you want (or need) to open up or create OpenType fonts, Fontographer is generally easier and quite capable. The company who makes FontLab now owns Fontographer also. -- R On Jan 28, 2008, at 4:12 PM, LGS-Europe wrote: Nice to see someone else busy with Finale for tablature. I has improved so much in the last few versions. Finally it's worth it, I feel. But still some issues to deal with. What software do you use for font creation? David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Typesetting scores
Hi Rocky No up-to-date tab examples on my site at the moment, I'll send you something off-list tomorrow. Recieved your files and had a quick look: polished! Your reply sent me to read about articulation metatools--something I have never used. This will be interesting to try for upstroke dots, but I'm guessing this could be handy for any frequently used symbol. Yes, carefull placement is done only once, then with metatools you can add all the articulations (or fingerings, or upstroke dots, or ...) _very_ fast. That's how i do my ciontinuo figures, too. With Finale's continuo figures library (am I the only one?). Practically blind and lightning fast. One number at a time, Finale takes care of placement above each other in compound figures. I would also like my rhythm stems to move a little further away from the topmost string tab letters. I thinks that's adjustable in Staff Attributes => Stem Settings. the half and whole as they are. Do you manually entering the rhythms measure by measure? No. Copy all the tabbed music (make sure it's one layer), then Plug In => Single Pitch. Maybe run check accidentals. Manually check the ties across barlines. If you like to hide repeated rhythm signs go through the staff in Speedy Entry, one hand on the O-key (hide note). It's fast. I've created a staff style for rhythm-staff-above-tab: hide all but the notes and the time signature. How do you enter diapasons? Bother. Change my system everytime. Basically what you do: I hide the note and attach the diapasson as expression or articulation. I'm not interested in playback. If I am I make a different file for playback anyway. Polyphony is an issue then, so for playback I use a staff notated file (I usually start my tabs as staff notation anyway). Nice to see someone else busy with Finale for tablature. I has improved so much in the last few versions. Finally it's worth it, I feel. But still some issues to deal with. What software do you use for font creation? David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Typesetting scores
Your reply sent me to read about articulation metatools--something I have never used. This will be interesting to try for upstroke dots, but I'm guessing this could be handy for any frequently used symbol. Last night I visited your website and viewing your scores clarified your earlier posting in which described your working method. http://home.planet.nl/~d.v.ooijen/david/sheetmusic_f.html The technique I have been using for rhythm signs is to use Finale's beaming. But because Finale thinks of the tab letter (or number) as the notehead, I have been manually placing an open (half)notehead of whole note on the stem (in the case of a half note) or in the empty space (in the case of a whole note). I am always wishing my placement of the halfnote head was more automatically precise, rather than zooming in to adjust. I would also like my rhythm stems to move a little further away from the topmost string tab letters. Your score has given me the idea to try your method, but making a font with no noteheads for quarter note, eighth, etc., but to keep the half and whole as they are. Do you manually entering the rhythms measure by measure? Entering rhythm signs as lyrics produces clear and good placement, but I miss the beamed note groups. How do you enter diapasons? -- Rocky On Jan 28, 2008, at 3:39 AM, LGS-Europe wrote: Dear Rocky Thanks for the list. It does include many of the problems I encounter and offers some insights in alternative ways to solve these. Rhythm signs as fonts, didn't think of that. I still haven't figured a way to easily enter Renaissance upstroke dots -- I usually just leave them off. << I use the articulation tool, experiment with placing and then enter with metatools. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Typesetting scores
Dear Rocky Thanks for the list. It does include many of the problems I encounter and offers some insights in alternative ways to solve these. Rhythm signs as fonts, didn't think of that. I still haven't figured a way to easily enter Renaissance upstroke dots -- I usually just leave them off. << I use the articulation tool, experiment with placing and then enter with metatools. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Typesetting scores
Hello, David. Thank you for keeping me on your Christmas list! As you may remember from my period of designing the Dutch Lute Society newsletter, graphic design is my main profession. I regularly use font editing software for custom font creation or adapting existing fonts to meet my design needs. So it is easy for me to think of solutions to Finale limitations that involve designing custom fonts. Some of my choices are purely aesthetic preferences. Here are some of the ways I use/adapt fonts: -- Created a figured bass font to allow input of numerals as Lyrics. For French tab: -- Put an "r" in the "c" location -- Redrew letters for more distinct shapes (d, for example) -- Reduce the ascender and descender heights (those bits that go above or below a lower case x) -- Created characters for bass courses which I usually will enter with the Expression tool (I enter a note an octave higher--so it is on the main six strings--then select the note with Mass Edit tool and transpose it to the desired octave and then enter with Expression tool. This gives correct pitched MIDI playback. If that's not needed I may just enter a note and make it invisible and enter the bass course note as text or expression) -- Create historic time signatures. -- Fingering dots and thumb strokes -- Fingering numbers (which I enter as Articulations) -- Custom ornament signs (Articulations) -- Upward and downward strums -- can be arrows or notes (Articulations). These can be placed in the staff, if desired. -- Short up/down arrows to place below the staff (Lyrics or Articulation) -- Note augmentation dot slightly offset to enter as Lyrics. If the piece only uses occasional dotted rhythms I usually just enter them as Articulations. -- Custom rhythm signs to enter as Lyrics. I usually just use Finale's beaming (with stems offset to appear above the staff) -- Vertical wavy line for arpeggio (Articulation) -- Séparée line (rather than just the line tool) -- more consistent than using the line tool. -- For BG tab I have do-not-play-this-string dots in the letter "q" position to I can enter them as I do other notes. To make Finales flagged rhythms more harmonious to tablature I have also experimented with changing those items in Maestro. That allows keeping beamed flags. Usually I just It's all a work in progress, and when I come across something else I need or want to do I I still haven't figured a way to easily enter Renaissance upstroke dots -- I usually just leave them off. I actually have been thinking about the nature of lute typography over the years. In normal text setting letters need to be designed to read together as words, different yet harmonious. I've been thinking that tablature is actually most successful when there are more distinct differences between letters -- using an r for second fret (actually similar to a stylized c in English Secretary hand), using a swashy d ascender. Then, of course, the letters still need to work together aestetically. Italian tab is much less problematic. On Jan 27, 2008, at 2:38 AM, LGS-Europe wrote: In short, everything to aid sight reading and make musical content clear. Amen. -- Rocky To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Typesetting scores (was Re: Le Cocq - scores)
I appreciate the way you have done your scores -- I did have a peek at your Corbetta edition in the Sept 06 LSA Quarterly before sending off the posting. Yes the originals can be very messy, unclear and have mistakes, too. The last thing I want to have in front of me for performance is something that is vague. A transcription forces me to wrestle and commit to a musical text. Yes! It is essential to have a score which you can read easily if you are going to play the music! The problem is that as soon as you start to make a copy the music you are actually committing yourself one interpretation of it, where as the original often leaves a number of problems unresolved. I have just done a lot more pieces of the Corbetta which I hope to put on a web site shortly. I am very conscious of the problems. In fact I sometimes wonder how anyone decides how to play the music at all. Mostly I like to think I am practical. For someone else who is also playing from a lot of tab from Just Jazz Guitar magazine (modern guitar tab), perhaps inverting Italian tab is more...comfortable. Yes - of course. If you are playing all sorts of music this is probably the best option. I was thinking more in terms of someone concentrating on baroque guitar. (Isn't there Castillian lute tablature, or something, that is basically Italian tab inverted?) Well - it's the vihuela music of Luis Milan that's done like that. There is even the music of Milano where the open course is represented by 1, the 1st course by 2 and so on...just to make life doubly dificult. I don't know of any baroque guitar music in Italian tab which is inverted.. I am curious about your wording "self defeating imposing a different concept on the notation". What I was really trying to say is that if you want seriously to play the baroque guitar or the even the lute and start by doing something different from the original sources it is perhaps more difficult to change later. It's more difficult to unlearn something. It is better to grasp the nettle But it is a good idea to be able to do things in a variety of ways. I'm thinking the "concept" of French and Italian (and German lute tab for that matter) is all the same -- to tell the player which notes need to be played (for the moment leaving out the baroque guitar issue of implied notes in strums). Is driving on the left side of the road different than driving on the right? No - but you have to conform to what ever rule is in force in the country you are driving in! I'd soon come to grief if I tried driving on the left after crossing the Channel! But what is different are all the little details which tells us about performance -- graces, fingerings, marks for which strings to play (or avoid) during a strum, tenuto, slurs, etc. It's interesting to see how different composers (or publishers, or copyists) have dealt with those details. Doesn't Bartolotti's positioning his on-staff noteheads for starting a strum tell the player the same information as Carre's dots which indicate strings not to strum? I think Bartolotti's is an elegant solution, but basically both these examples tell you which strings are played and which aren't. Up to a point! Bartolotti's system doesn't tell you when to leave out the upper courses - and in some cases this is clearly what he intends. Also he seems to have had a problem using his system consistently! It would have made a lot more sense if he (and everyone else) just put in the zeros. I think his system is a kind of "conceit" - he has used it because of it's visual effect. It looks elegant on the page. I wonder where he got the idea from. Carre - and Corbetta and De Visee put dots on the line - when they remember - to indicate when courses should be omitted. De Murcia also came to mind as a historic example of a guitarist who took other music (from French sources) and put it into "his" Italian tablature. Yes - but he didn't invert it! There are lots of instances of pieces being transcribed from one form of tab to another. Valdambrini even includes advice on how to do it. Practice does make fluent. I think that players who can only read one system are missing a lot of great music. I entirely agree with. That is exactly the point I was trying to make. It is better to get used to reading the different types of tablature used in the original right from the start. Even better to be able to do it every which way. The problem with the arrows for strums is a modern one as this is not how they were indicated in the 17th century. There doesn't seem to be any agreement about this. In the 17th century the strum signs in both French and Italian tab. indicate the physical direction of the stroke. Looking at Craig Russell's transcription of Murcia it just doesn't seem at all logical to do it that way! I have unearthed one example from a flamenco book in whi
[VIHUELA] Re: Typesetting scores (was Re: Le Cocq - scores)
Monica, I appreciate the way you have done your scores -- I did have a peek at your Corbetta edition in the Sept 06 LSA Quarterly before sending off the posting. Yes the originals can be very messy, unclear and have mistakes, too. The last thing I want to have in front of me for performance is something that is vague. A transcription forces me to wrestle and commit to a musical text. I'm also aware that my knowledge may be limited and in the future I may learn that the splotch (or whatever) in the original was a little- known performance direction. Mostly I like to think I am practical. For someone else who is also playing from a lot of tab from Just Jazz Guitar magazine (modern guitar tab), perhaps inverting Italian tab is more...comfortable. (Isn't there Castillian lute tablature, or something, that is basically Italian tab inverted?) I am curious about your wording "self defeating imposing a different concept on the notation". I'm thinking the "concept" of French and Italian (and German lute tab for that matter) is all the same -- to tell the player which notes need to be played (for the moment leaving out the baroque guitar issue of implied notes in strums). Is driving on the left side of the road different than driving on the right? But what is different are all the little details which tells us about performance -- graces, fingerings, marks for which strings to play (or avoid) during a strum, tenuto, slurs, etc. It's interesting to see how different composers (or publishers, or copyists) have dealt with those details. Doesn't Bartolotti's positioning his on-staff noteheads for starting a strum tell the player the same information as Carre's dots which indicate strings not to strum? I think Bartolotti's is an elegant solution, but basically both these examples tell you which strings are played and which aren't. De Murcia also came to mind as a historic example of a guitarist who took other music (from French sources) and put it into "his" Italian tablature. Practice does make fluent. I think that players who can only read one system are missing a lot of great music. -- Rocky On Jan 26, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Monica Hall wrote: How do others prefer preparing their scores? I'm guessing there may be preferences based on whether the intention is a score to perform from or if it serves a more scholarly function. I am confounded by the way some people use arrows with tablature or in transcriptions to indicate direction. Tyler's "Brief Tutor", for example, notates pieces in French tab and has arrows pointing towards the bottom the page to indicate a downstroke. Russell's De Murcia transcription does the same thing. Doesn't it make more sense for a downstroke arrow to go from the bass side towards the treble string? I must say I agree with you. I use Django which doesn't support FRench style notation so I put in arrows in the way you suggest. I suspect however that doing it the opposite way is the way it is done in standard classical guitar notation/flamenco notation of which I have very little experience. Otherwise it makes no sense to me to do it like that. To me tablature or notation already sets up one spacial concept, and this Tyler/Russell usage seems to create a second, antithetical one. I entirely agree. The originals are not always very easy to read so doing transcriptions is helpful but it seems to me self defeating imposing a different concept on the notation. For this reason I think it is a mistake, for example to invert Italian tablature. If you don't tackle the problem at the outset you are going to have to relearn everything if you try to play from the originals. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Typesetting scores (was Re: Le Cocq - scores)
How do others prefer preparing their scores? I'm guessing there may be preferences based on whether the intention is a score to perform from or if it serves a more scholarly function. I am confounded by the way some people use arrows with tablature or in transcriptions to indicate direction. Tyler's "Brief Tutor", for example, notates pieces in French tab and has arrows pointing towards the bottom the page to indicate a downstroke. Russell's De Murcia transcription does the same thing. Doesn't it make more sense for a downstroke arrow to go from the bass side towards the treble string? I must say I agree with you. I use Django which doesn't support FRench style notation so I put in arrows in the way you suggest. I suspect however that doing it the opposite way is the way it is done in standard classical guitar notation/flamenco notation of which I have very little experience. Otherwise it makes no sense to me to do it like that. To me tablature or notation already sets up one spacial concept, and this Tyler/Russell usage seems to create a second, antithetical one. I entirely agree. The originals are not always very easy to read so doing transcriptions is helpful but it seems to me self defeating imposing a different concept on the notation. For this reason I think it is a mistake, for example to invert Italian tablature. If you don't tackle the problem at the outset you are going to have to relearn everything if you try to play from the originals. Monica In any case, I have enjoyed reading and learning from the group's posts online. -- Rocky To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Typesetting scores (was Re: Le Cocq - scores)
Yes, it's the same series where you played baroque lute and mandora. -- R On Jan 25, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > Is your gig going to be for the series I was on? > > ed > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
