> Interesting. I haven't read Wright's article. The diagram in Baines'
> 'Oxford Companion to Musical Instruments'
Unfortunately I haven't got a copy of Baines, but it seems to have been
published later than Wright's article and reflect what he says to some
extent.
> has a large arrow going from
>Monica Hall wrote:
>"Not really..but to digress - I came across a reference to the guitar being
>played in the Philippines in the 17th century which might interest you.
>Apparently men and women in Manila celebrated religious festivals dancing
>and playing the guitar...
>It doesn't say whether th
Monica Hall wrote:
>>>Gitterns look very like 16th century(and later) mandores but
>>>Wright's view prevails - (medieval) gitterns aren't mandoras. The
>>>medieval gittern is the origin of the 16th century guitar...??
>>>
>>>
>
>I re-read the first part of his article late last night. I don
At 12:57 PM 10/24/2005, bill kilpatrick wrote:
>there's a 5c. instrument in the philippines called an
>octavina that's been mentioned on the list before.
>uncanny, these instruments evolving spontaneously in
>different parts of the new world with no apparent
>european precedent ...
Seems wholly c
--- Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Not really..
pity ...
> ... reference to the guitar being
> played in the Philippines in the 17th century which
> might interest you.
there's a 5c. instrument in the philippines called an
octavina that's been mentioned on the list before.
uncann
They were too narrow, and would sit too low, for that. I think Roger is
right and the guitar is a gamba sans bow.
RT
> How much does the possible accidental discovery
> that the waist of the guitar allows it to be
> balanced in a seated playing position while
> pear-shaped instruments fall ove
Neither does pochette, but I would claim it to by indicative of the entire
family either.
RT
>
>> Does Wright ignore the most logical reason for the waist on an
>> instrument,
>> that is bow accomodation???
>
> I don't think he actually mentions it but the instruments he discusses are
> all playe
> > Gitterns look very like 16th century(and later) mandores but
> > Wright's view prevails - (medieval) gitterns aren't mandoras. The
> > medieval gittern is the origin of the 16th century guitar...??
I re-read the first part of his article late last night. I don't think that
he actually argues
> would you care to speculate on whether the transition
> from 4 to more coincided with a preference for 5 from
> those chordaphone toting travelers bound for new
> spain?
Not really..but to digress - I came across a reference to the guitar being
played in the Philippines in the 17th century whic
How much does the possible accidental discovery
that the waist of the guitar allows it to be
balanced in a seated playing position while
pear-shaped instruments fall over? But gets us
into the chicken & egg discussion - did they use
the existing waist to play seated or was the waist
added to play
At 03:11 PM 10/24/2005, you wrote:
>But there are traditions of playing and making instruments. Those
>four-course instruments in the 16th century that LeRoy published music
>for, are guitars surely?
I agree.
>And they are connected in some significant way to modern six string ones,
>450 yea
At 02:39 AM 10/24/2005, bill kilpatrick wrote:
>would you care to speculate on whether the transition
>from 4 to more coincided with a preference for 5 from
>those chordaphone toting travelers bound for new
>spain?
Personally, I can't imagine how a speculative favoritism of New Worlders
for five
>I remember reading Wright's article ages ago. This is a bit speculative
>really. It seems more likely that the guitar developed along side the
>vihuela in the late 15th century, being developed from a prototype figure of
>8 shaped instrument which could be plucked or bowed. Perhaps the vihuela
>
>
>I'm a little skeptical of the Spain-not-liking-lute-like-things thing, but
>Wright does make a good argument for the theory of
>gittern:guitar::citole:cittern, waist-evolving/waist-shedding conceptual
>crossover. The concept is also summed nicely by Baines (1992. The Oxford
>Companion
--- Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> It seems more likely that the guitar
> developed along side the
> vihuela in the late 15th century, being developed
> from a prototype figure of
> 8 shaped instrument which could be plucked or bowed.
> Perhaps the vihuela
> originally had 4 courses an
>> Laurence Wright argues that the medieval citole developed into the
>> Renaissance cittern and the medieval gittern into the Renaissance
>> guitar.
>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.walsh
>>
>>
>> Gitterns lute-shaped, round-backed, plectrum-plucked instruments
>> somehow morph into waisted, fl
- Original Message -
From: Stuart Walsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:30 am
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: rain ...origins of guitar
> Laurence Wright argues that the medieval citole developed into the
> Renaissance cittern and the medieval gittern into the
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, October 22, 2005 3:42 pm
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: rain ...
> He is tying to drain us. But he will not succeed.
Well, I'm not feeling particularly drained. I'm not even feeling the ef
> Laurence Wright argues that the medieval citole developed into the
> Renaissance cittern and the medieval gittern into the Renaissance guitar.
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.walsh
>
>
> Gitterns - lute-shaped, round-backed, plectrum-plucked instruments
> somehow morph into waisted, flat or f
Laurence Wright argues that the medieval citole developed into the
Renaissance cittern and the medieval gittern into the Renaissance guitar.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.walsh
Gitterns lute-shaped, round-backed, plectrum-plucked instruments
somehow morph into waisted, flat or fluted back,
He is tying to drain us. But he will not succeed.
RT
>
> Matanya is a publisher...he is winding you all up.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
Matanya is a publisher...he is winding you all up.
Rob
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
So there were no singers until there was written music for voice. Wow! I never
thought of it that way before.
Craig
Craig R. Pierpont
Another Era Lutherie
www.anotherera.com
> guitar history properly begins with the appearance of the first written
> score for the instrument.
--- Howard Posner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are a good
> many instruments for
> which there is no music written specifically. When
> was the "first
> written score" for the charango, I wonder?
GOOD POINT!!! ... now that you mention it ... i've
been playing my charango along with ro
- Original Message -
From: bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, October 22, 2005 6:24 am
Subject: [VIHUELA] rain ...
> i realize there's no welcome mat at the door for him
> here but - never being one to discredit an idea for
> anything other than its merits - the following
On Saturday, Oct 22, 2005, at 03:24 America/Los_Angeles, bill
kilpatrick wrote:
> guitar history properly begins with the appearance of
> the first
> written score for the instrument.
If you said this about the lute, you'd be wrong by centuries. If you
said it about most other instruments, you
Amother self-serving platitude from MO, a positivist meretrix who has no
imagination.
Usually timelines of written wusic are A LOT shorter than timelines of each
particular instruments' histories.
RT
- Original Message -
From: "bill kilpatrick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "vihuela list"
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