Re: Radius Thunder 24/GT resolutions

[Chris Hanson]

Has anyone figured out the format for the monitor list/timings in the Radius 
software?

I don’t get great results at 1600x1200 with my Thunder IV because the LCD that 
I have it going into really prefers the VESA frequencies (it’s 1600x1200 
native), and I wind up with ghosting and such at the frequencies the software 
does offer. It’s definitely not the cable either, I’ve used the same cable with 
a Sony GPD-400 and gotten a rock solid image at the same resolution/frequencies.

Barring some sort of interlocking requirements, it should be possible for the 
Thunder IV to generate VESA frequencies (even for 1600x1200 they’re lower than 
some of what it can output), so it’d be great to be able to add a VESA entry to 
the monitors list. So, has anyone done the necessary reverse engineering work 
yet? I believe a cursory look a year or so ago showed the information was all 
in resources, I presume there’s just a list of timings to program into the 
clock generators.

  — Chris

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 16, 2018, at 7:16 AM, 'Raj Patel' via Vintage Macs 
>  wrote:
> 
> hi,
> on my 840av with Radius precision color 8-24x i had difficulty getting to 
> 1024x768 on a standard VGA display.
> 
> But i solved it this is how i got there. 
> 
> Install dynamic desktop / radius : http://www.kan.org/6100/nubus.html
> Ensure display is set to 'Radius Precisioncolor/19"
> Color to 256
> Pram-Zap
> 
> On boot you should be able to access 'dynamic desktop' by hitting 'Control 
> +option' (unless you have changed it, check by going to the Radius Dynamic 
> app in control panel, at the top.
> 
> If you have completed all steps correctly you should see various resolution 
> modes. If you haven't you will see no resolution options.
> 
> See screen grab for what you should see if everything is working.
> 
> When you reboot, switch off etc all settings will be preserved.  You may have 
> to go through these steps if you change your display or if your CMOS battery, 
> inside, goes low.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wednesday, 10 September 2014 14:42:14 UTC+1, Brian Rumsey wrote:
>> Hi all, good to see the group is still going strong after many years' 
>> absence! I've got a question about a Radius Thunder 24/GT (functionally 
>> similar to the Thunder IV) recently installed in a Quadra 650. I have hooked 
>> it up to various modern flat-screen displays via a mac to vga adapter. The 
>> best resolution I can get is a stretched 1024x768. I do have its software 
>> installed. I'm assuming the card probably doesn't support 16x9 or 16x10 
>> display ratios, since those didn't become common until so much later (please 
>> correct me if it can support these!), but these displays support 1600x1200 
>> on other computers, so I'm wondering why I can't access higher resolutions 
>> than 1024x768 on the Quadra. Is the adapter the likely culprit? Something 
>> else about modern displays? Thanks!
> 
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Re: Radius Thunder 24/GT resolutions

[andy . heinzman]

Hi Brian,

I realized that I never answered one of your original questions, what 
different resolutions the Thunder 24/GT supports. Check out the following 
link to Gamba's site:

http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/vid-mon-matrix.html#party

The matrix shows the various resolutions and color bit depth each listed 
card supports. Refresh rates are not included (I determined refresh rates 
on my card by sing SwitchRes and Mac OS 8 1 year ago).

The refresh rate may be the culprit on not getting 1600x1200, however lets 
make sure on this point. Can you provide more information concerning this? 
Specifically: are different resolutions available in the selection dialog 
that when selected turn your screen black *or* are different (higher) 
resolutions not available in the selection dialog? If you are not seeing 
the 1600x1200 resolution in the control panel selection dialog then you 
have an Mac-VGA adapter problem. If you see a 1600x1200 option but your 
screen goes black when you use it, you have a display problem.

In my original posting I had mentioned that the system extension Aar was 
available for forcing the video card to present all resolutions to the 
computer (thus bypassing any problems with a Mac-VGA adapter). I had also 
mentioned a system compatibility problem with Aar. After going back and 
checking my notes I realized that I was incorrect on this point. Aar does 
have a compatibility problem, it cannot run on Macintosh's that utilize 
PowerPC architecture (I do not believe it has a problem with OS version 
levels). Since you have a 68k mac, Aar should work for you. If you want to 
try this, PM me to discuss further.

I confirmed a few other things this weekend:

1. My Mac-VGA adapter is set to present a 21 Multimode display.
2. Under System 7.1.2 selecting the display type of Radius 
IntelliColor/20 will allow you to access each resolution up to 1600x1200.

When I was confirming refresh rates for specific resolutions I had to use 
OS 8. It is therefore possible to select all supported resolutions under 
the OS 8 Monitors and Sound control panel. Let me know your thoughts on my 
questions above, I think you are really close to accessing the additional 
resolutions supported by the Thunder 24/GT.

-Andy

On Saturday, September 13, 2014 12:00:39 PM UTC-4, Brian Rumsey wrote:

 Thanks, Andy. I hadn't thought about the refresh rate but I think that is 
 probably the culprit on not getting 1600x1200.

 I also note what you say on the different monitors control panels for 
 different SSW versions. I had been using 8.1 while doing this, and it only 
 gave me the options up to 1024x768. Then, switching to 7.1, the monitors 
 control panel showed an option I couldn't find in 8.1 to say which kind of 
 monitor was connected (VGA, and different Apple Multiple Scan resolutions 
 -- I chose 20-21). When I chose the Apple 20-21 inches, the control panel 
 then allowed me to switch to 1152x870 (at 8-bit). And, after rebooting in 
 8.1, I was able to keep that resolution. Curious. I suppose 1152x870 is the 
 highest my monitor can support at the required refresh rate. It does 
 support 1280x1024 at 75 Hz, but I see that resolution isn't supported by 
 the Thunder 24.



 On Thursday, September 11, 2014 10:24:31 AM UTC-5, andy.h...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

 Hi Brian,

 About 1 year ago I worked on getting my Power Mac 8100 interfaced to a 
 1600x1200 flat screen display using a Thunder IV GX 1600 card. I ran into 
 the issues you are describing, however in the end I was able to get the 
 1600x1200 resolution.

 The problem you are describing of not being able to access all available 
 resolutions is tied to the Mac-VGA adapter you are utilizing as well as the 
 Radius software itself. The Mac-VGA adapter I wound up using was the 
 Mitsubishi AD-A205. You should be able to find one of these on e-bay (this 
 was a common style that multiple vendors made). If I remember correctly I 
 set the Mac-VGA adapter to present a 21 Multimode display to the computer 
 (I will confirm this over the weekend). If you cannot find one of these 
 adapters, there is a shareware system extension called Aar (Access All 
 Resolutions). This extension forced the video card to present all supported 
 resolutions in the Monitors  Sound control panel, however if memory serves 
 me right this extension had a minimum OS requirement of System 7.5.3 (it 
 will not work on earlier systems).

 Depending on the route you take with getting the video card to present 
 all resolutions to the computer, the other thing you will run into is 
 selecting the resolution you want to use. With System 7.5 and above, the 
 Monitors  Sound control panel displays resolutions differently than the 
 original System 7 Monitors control panel. If I remember correctly, the 
 Monitors and Sound panel displays all of the resolutions presented to the 
 computer in it's main resolution selection list. I am running System 7.1.2 
 on my Power Mac and due to this I use the 

Re: Radius Thunder 24/GT resolutions

[Brian Rumsey]

Thanks, Andy. I hadn't thought about the refresh rate but I think that is 
probably the culprit on not getting 1600x1200.

I also note what you say on the different monitors control panels for 
different SSW versions. I had been using 8.1 while doing this, and it only 
gave me the options up to 1024x768. Then, switching to 7.1, the monitors 
control panel showed an option I couldn't find in 8.1 to say which kind of 
monitor was connected (VGA, and different Apple Multiple Scan resolutions 
-- I chose 20-21). When I chose the Apple 20-21 inches, the control panel 
then allowed me to switch to 1152x870 (at 8-bit). And, after rebooting in 
8.1, I was able to keep that resolution. Curious. I suppose 1152x870 is the 
highest my monitor can support at the required refresh rate. It does 
support 1280x1024 at 75 Hz, but I see that resolution isn't supported by 
the Thunder 24.



On Thursday, September 11, 2014 10:24:31 AM UTC-5, andy.h...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 Hi Brian,

 About 1 year ago I worked on getting my Power Mac 8100 interfaced to a 
 1600x1200 flat screen display using a Thunder IV GX 1600 card. I ran into 
 the issues you are describing, however in the end I was able to get the 
 1600x1200 resolution.

 The problem you are describing of not being able to access all available 
 resolutions is tied to the Mac-VGA adapter you are utilizing as well as the 
 Radius software itself. The Mac-VGA adapter I wound up using was the 
 Mitsubishi AD-A205. You should be able to find one of these on e-bay (this 
 was a common style that multiple vendors made). If I remember correctly I 
 set the Mac-VGA adapter to present a 21 Multimode display to the computer 
 (I will confirm this over the weekend). If you cannot find one of these 
 adapters, there is a shareware system extension called Aar (Access All 
 Resolutions). This extension forced the video card to present all supported 
 resolutions in the Monitors  Sound control panel, however if memory serves 
 me right this extension had a minimum OS requirement of System 7.5.3 (it 
 will not work on earlier systems).

 Depending on the route you take with getting the video card to present all 
 resolutions to the computer, the other thing you will run into is selecting 
 the resolution you want to use. With System 7.5 and above, the Monitors  
 Sound control panel displays resolutions differently than the original 
 System 7 Monitors control panel. If I remember correctly, the Monitors and 
 Sound panel displays all of the resolutions presented to the computer in 
 it's main resolution selection list. I am running System 7.1.2 on my Power 
 Mac and due to this I use the standard Monitors control panel. In this 
 set-up the Radius software modifies the UI of Apple's Monitors control 
 panel, providing display types with the supported resolutions. One of the 
 21 Radius display types (I have to check which one) provides a 1600x1200 
 resolution at 65Hz and 69Hz. It is important to stress that without the 
 correct setting on the Mac-VGA adapter, the supported resolutions will not 
 be presented in the control panel.

 According to Gamba's website, the Radius Thunder 24/GT supports a 
 resolution of 1600x1200 at 8-bit (256) colors. Since the card will support 
 this resolution, you can utilize it. There is however 1 caveat with using 
 this resolution. Because the Radius card only has a 65Hz and a 69Hz refresh 
 rate at 1600x1200, you must have a display that supports 1600x1200 with a 
 refresh rate of at least 65Hz (preferably something above 65Hz). This is 
 usually not a problem for CRT displays, however most flat screen displays 
 only support a max of 60Hz at the 1600x1200 resolution. I got around this 
 problem by using a HP LP2065 display that supports 1600x1200 at 70Hz. You 
 can buy these used however you will need the special VGA cable that 
 originally came with the display (I have the part number saved and can 
 provide it if necessary).

 If you get the Radius Thunder 24/GT to present all resolutions to your mac 
 and confirm your display will work with the supported frequencies, you will 
 be able to use the 1600x1200 resolution. When I get a moment this weekend I 
 will confirm any specific settings on my mac.

 -Andy

 On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:42:14 AM UTC-4, Brian Rumsey wrote:

 Hi all, good to see the group is still going strong after many years' 
 absence! I've got a question about a Radius Thunder 24/GT (functionally 
 similar to the Thunder IV) recently installed in a Quadra 650. I have 
 hooked it up to various modern flat-screen displays via a mac to vga 
 adapter. The best resolution I can get is a stretched 1024x768. I do have 
 its software installed. I'm assuming the card probably doesn't support 16x9 
 or 16x10 display ratios, since those didn't become common until so much 
 later (please correct me if it can support these!), but these displays 
 support 1600x1200 on other computers, so I'm wondering why I can't access 
 higher 

Re: Radius Thunder 24/GT resolutions

[andy . heinzman]

Hi Brian,

About 1 year ago I worked on getting my Power Mac 8100 interfaced to a 
1600x1200 flat screen display using a Thunder IV GX 1600 card. I ran into 
the issues you are describing, however in the end I was able to get the 
1600x1200 resolution.

The problem you are describing of not being able to access all available 
resolutions is tied to the Mac-VGA adapter you are utilizing as well as the 
Radius software itself. The Mac-VGA adapter I wound up using was the 
Mitsubishi AD-A205. You should be able to find one of these on e-bay (this 
was a common style that multiple vendors made). If I remember correctly I 
set the Mac-VGA adapter to present a 21 Multimode display to the computer 
(I will confirm this over the weekend). If you cannot find one of these 
adapters, there is a shareware system extension called Aar (Access All 
Resolutions). This extension forced the video card to present all supported 
resolutions in the Monitors  Sound control panel, however if memory serves 
me right this extension had a minimum OS requirement of System 7.5.3 (it 
will not work on earlier systems).

Depending on the route you take with getting the video card to present all 
resolutions to the computer, the other thing you will run into is selecting 
the resolution you want to use. With System 7.5 and above, the Monitors  
Sound control panel displays resolutions differently than the original 
System 7 Monitors control panel. If I remember correctly, the Monitors and 
Sound panel displays all of the resolutions presented to the computer in 
it's main resolution selection list. I am running System 7.1.2 on my Power 
Mac and due to this I use the standard Monitors control panel. In this 
set-up the Radius software modifies the UI of Apple's Monitors control 
panel, providing display types with the supported resolutions. One of the 
21 Radius display types (I have to check which one) provides a 1600x1200 
resolution at 65Hz and 69Hz. It is important to stress that without the 
correct setting on the Mac-VGA adapter, the supported resolutions will not 
be presented in the control panel.

According to Gamba's website, the Radius Thunder 24/GT supports a 
resolution of 1600x1200 at 8-bit (256) colors. Since the card will support 
this resolution, you can utilize it. There is however 1 caveat with using 
this resolution. Because the Radius card only has a 65Hz and a 69Hz refresh 
rate at 1600x1200, you must have a display that supports 1600x1200 with a 
refresh rate of at least 65Hz (preferably something above 65Hz). This is 
usually not a problem for CRT displays, however most flat screen displays 
only support a max of 60Hz at the 1600x1200 resolution. I got around this 
problem by using a HP LP2065 display that supports 1600x1200 at 70Hz. You 
can buy these used however you will need the special VGA cable that 
originally came with the display (I have the part number saved and can 
provide it if necessary).

If you get the Radius Thunder 24/GT to present all resolutions to your mac 
and confirm your display will work with the supported frequencies, you will 
be able to use the 1600x1200 resolution. When I get a moment this weekend I 
will confirm any specific settings on my mac.

-Andy

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:42:14 AM UTC-4, Brian Rumsey wrote:

 Hi all, good to see the group is still going strong after many years' 
 absence! I've got a question about a Radius Thunder 24/GT (functionally 
 similar to the Thunder IV) recently installed in a Quadra 650. I have 
 hooked it up to various modern flat-screen displays via a mac to vga 
 adapter. The best resolution I can get is a stretched 1024x768. I do have 
 its software installed. I'm assuming the card probably doesn't support 16x9 
 or 16x10 display ratios, since those didn't become common until so much 
 later (please correct me if it can support these!), but these displays 
 support 1600x1200 on other computers, so I'm wondering why I can't access 
 higher resolutions than 1024x768 on the Quadra. Is the adapter the likely 
 culprit? Something else about modern displays? Thanks!


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Re: Radius Thunder 24/GT resolutions

[Nathan Raymond]

There are two types of Mac to VGA adapters - ones with no adjustment made
for certain monitors, and more general ones with DIP switches and/or dials
to adjust the resolutions the adapter reports to the Mac video card.  NEC
back in the day would bundle Mac to VGA adapters for it's monitors and the
adapters were customized for the resolutions and refresh rates a particular
monitor supported, and NEC would typically mold the major resolutions
supported into the plastic of the adapter so you could tell at a glance
what it could do.  I'm not sure about other brands.  The adjustable DIP
switch adapters either had a table on them (ViewSonic often bundled these)
or sometimes a sheet of paper to tell you what switch/dial combos produced
what set of resolutions that would be reported to the Mac video card on the
sense pins.  Mac video cards would then use that info to determine what
resolutions and refresh rates would be allowed (typically probed once while
the computer was booting).

- Nate

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Brian Rumsey brian.rum...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi all, good to see the group is still going strong after many years'
 absence! I've got a question about a Radius Thunder 24/GT (functionally
 similar to the Thunder IV) recently installed in a Quadra 650. I have
 hooked it up to various modern flat-screen displays via a mac to vga
 adapter. The best resolution I can get is a stretched 1024x768. I do have
 its software installed. I'm assuming the card probably doesn't support 16x9
 or 16x10 display ratios, since those didn't become common until so much
 later (please correct me if it can support these!), but these displays
 support 1600x1200 on other computers, so I'm wondering why I can't access
 higher resolutions than 1024x768 on the Quadra. Is the adapter the likely
 culprit? Something else about modern displays? Thanks!

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