Hi All, Yes, while this list is here for the acquisition of knowledge and the discussion of same, remember, this is relating to iDevices / Apple and all surrounding that. So do keep this discussion relevant to Apple and / or iDevices.
when this strays into the general concept of Braille without the iDevice included, then this becomes off-topic. So rather than contribute to that, let's do keep this inline with what Apple may or should or can or might do in regard to Braille. Or go ahead and surprise me with how you can include Apple in this thread, but do honestly keep it relevant. That's all we ask! :) thanks and have a great day! Smiles, Cara :) On Sep 20, 2013, at 5:16 AM, Joseph FreeTech <joseph.freet...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi guys, hate to be the dissenting opinion, but as a totally blind person I don't really have any use for Braille in my life. I have a Braille display that has an 8-year pile of dust on it. One of the dots went out and I need both of my arms and legs so can't send it in for repair. As for school, yes, Braille can be helpful, but I don't think it is essential with a little creativity. In college I handed in my math assignments having typed out using Word and Excel. I explained my code to my professors and they were all ok with it straight through college. I also used a Perkins Brailler and came up with my own Braille code as having to learn nemeth after just having learned Grade 2 and Grade 3 Braille was not going to cut it as I already had quite a work load in college and just didn't have the time to learn Nemeth code. My math code was much, much more efficient than Nemeth. I took a gamble and it paid off for me. In terms of reading and writing, well, for the most part I'm a curious person, and learning how to spell is just a letter-by-letter review away from accuracy. What is going to doom writing both in blind community and sighted world will be texting and the general acceptance of incredibly, I mean incredibly poor etiquette by those using cell phones to communicate. I come across messages and think "who in their right mind would post such a mess as this poor spelling and grammar says so little about the sender," but then I realize the person might be texting and has no interest in proper spelling and grammar. If one is a curious person, he or she can go a long way to prevent poor spelling and grammar as well as increasing their vocabulary with a free, easy to use application such as WordWeb. Let's not forget that electronic Braille products are outrageously expensive (depending on type of product). One absolutely need the help of the government to make such a purchase, so while "doing it for the children, the children" is noble, right now it is not practical without the assistance of the state. I'm concluding that so little blind people use Braille because it just isn't essential in our modern lives. Heck, with apps like MBraille, one can get the benefits of using Braille without having to take out a second mortgage to purchase a Braille display, Braille printer, and tons of Braille paper. I just recently came across a YouTube video of a blind TV voice over actor. This guy was absolutely amazing and has been very successful in his chosen field--he sounds like the Budweiser commercial guy with low rumbling voice. He played some samples of his work to demonstrate how fast he has to learn how to read and speak. I was amazed at how fast he could read Braille to complete his work. Well, turns out he's not reading Braille at all. He has a headpiece on and is simply repeating what he has recorded via his screen reader. By the way, this is exactly how I presented my various speeches when at university. My point is that there is "always" a way when one doesn't have tens of thousands of dollars to purchase Braille products. I do fully expect an incredible retaliation for my personal dissenting opinions, but this list is not hear primarily for the sake of proponents of Braille use, it is hear for the acquisition of knowledge as shared by all on the list, which means I too have some say so on the matter as it concerns my views and experience with use of Braille. Joseph ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac Hebert" <isaac.heb...@gmail.com> To: <viphone@googlegroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 3:49 AM Subject: Re: The Apple Braille Crisis. It's Got to be Fixed for our Kids Yes we should change all braille to computer braille. On 9/20/13, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com> wrote: > Actually, we need to change all braille to computer braille. This way, we > become better able to match our sighted peers. Our spelling will > dramatically improve, and we will experience text much more the way > sighted > people experience it. > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 20 Sep 2013, at 22:36, Carol Pearson <carol.pearso...@googlemail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Jonathan, Annie and all, >> >> >> I agree totally with your sentiments, but do feel that, along with >> suggestions so far, there needs to be a big push for schools to keep it a >> priority for children to learn thoroughlyand use braille every day. >> >> My gut feeling is that Apple really does need to call upon the resources >> of those who are experts in this field. Idon't believe they can really >> achieve the kind of excellence we require without such expertise. In >> other >> words, if they do not employ an expert who already has a very good >> knowledge of braille and the way things work, they need to outsource some >> of this work. >> >> They certainly need to be listening to us on this matter. >> Carol P >> Sent from my iPhone using MBraille >> >> On 20 Sep 2013, at 10:50 am, Annie Skov Nielsen >> <annieskovniel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Jonathan. >> >> I agree with you. I have some things to add. >> >> I am using braille very much on my IPhone, because I am a braille user, I >> am not using speech very much. >> >> to me it is also a problem, that there are no ways you can go to the next >> line with the left hand, and many keyboard commands such as VoiceOver >> search, has not been added to braille displays yet. This should have been >> fixed. We could do so much with our braille displays if apple would use >> the posibilities which our braille displays have. >> >> Best regards Annie. >>> Den Sep 20, 2013 kl. 10:10 AM skrev Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org>: >>> >>> Hi everyone, since I believe this is such a vital issue, and given that >>> it is 100% on-topic for this list, I would like to paste below an entry >>> I >>> just posted to my blog. I hope you enjoy it and that you'll give it some >>> thought. >>> >>> People from all walks of life, not just blind people, can get extremely >>> partisan about their technology preferences. Anything their team does is >>> unquestionably wonderful, while anything another company does is >>> rubbish, >>> simply by virtue of the fact that it’s the other guys who did it. If you >>> criticise the company such people support, you’ve committed heresy. >>> As blind people, I don’t believe we have the luxury of being so >>> childish. >>> Unemployment is high. Misconceptions abound regarding how capable we can >>> be in the workplace, and in society as a whole. We need to be open to >>> all >>> solutions, and where possible, use the best mix of technology we can to >>> be as productive, functional and self-reliant as we can. >>> To be clear, I have enormous admiration for the way Apple has changed >>> the >>> game in assistive technology. When they released VoiceOver in 2009, I >>> was >>> concerned that Apple might do just enough to get people off its back >>> regarding the inaccessibility of the iPhone. But that has not been the >>> case. With every release, Apple has added tangible enhancements such as >>> alternative forms of input, innovative ways for us to use the camera, >>> and >>> so much more. So Apple’s commitment to accessibility is real, its >>> ongoing, and it has earned enormous praise and respect. >>> Is there a “but” coming? Yes, there is, actually., because being >>> grateful >>> for a product doesn’t mean we don’t have rights as paying consumers to >>> point out where a product falls short. But more than that, if Apple’s >>> innovations risk killing off a category of product, and the literacy of >>> our kids is threatened, we have a moral obligation to speak up >>> constructively and ask Apple to engage with us as a community about >>> fixing the issue. >>> The Internet is buzzing with reports of bugs in iOS 7. I’m not unduly >>> concerned about most of these, because I believe the majority of them >>> will come out in the wash. iOS 7 was a massive refactoring of the OS. I >>> hope that there’ll be fixes released steadily across the coming year. >>> However, I am deeply troubled by Apple’s ongoing apparent failure to >>> understand what constitutes Braille support of an appropriate quality. >>> We’re not talking bugs in this case, we’re talking a fundamental user >>> interface failure – a feature not fully fit for purpose. >>> Since Braille was introduced in iOS, it has supported contracted Braille >>> in English markets. This is a means by which space is saved, and speed >>> increased, by using a series of symbols and abbreviations. When one >>> reads >>> contracted Braille in iOS, it works quite well. When one rights it, it >>> is >>> the worst implementation of contracted input I’ve ever used on any >>> device. >>> Since its inception, if you input a letter in contracted Braille which >>> would be the abbreviation for a word if surrounded by spaces, iOS >>> expands >>> the word it represents if you pause for a short time before inputting >>> the >>> next character. For example, write “p” and it will quickly be expanded >>> to >>> the word “people”. If you are proofing a document you’ve brailled and >>> wish to insert a letter in the middle of a word, you must preface the >>> letter with a letter sign, dots 5-6, to prevent it from being expanded. >>> This is not in accordance with the Braille code and is simply wrong. >>> Apple must surely know about this poor implementation. It’s been talked >>> about in many forums, including an excellent presentation by Judy Dixon >>> at the CSUN Technology Conference on Persons with Disabilities. I, and >>> I’m sure others, have also raised it. >>> It’s also evident that Apple knows about the issues, because to its >>> credit, it appears to at least have made an effort to try and fix the >>> problem in iOS 7. It now offers an “Automatic Braille Translation” >>> toggle. This feature is so below par compared with most of the design of >>> all other VoiceOver features, that it must surely be the case that Apple >>> is getting no advice, or poor advice, from anyone actually using Braille >>> in their daily life. >>> When you toggle “Automatic Braille Translation” off, you can take as >>> long >>> as you wish when inputting characters, and they’re not back-translated. >>> Isn’t that what we want? Well yes, it would appear to be a step in the >>> right direction. Except when you use it, you find that Braille is not >>> readable on the display until you either press the space bar, or dots >>> 4-5-cord. Why Apple believes this is acceptable, I have no idea. Can you >>> imagine a sighted person finding it acceptable in any other scenario >>> other than password entry, to not be able to look at what they’re >>> entering until they press “Space”? >>> But it’s worse than that. If you backspace over what you’ve typed, you >>> run into back-translation issues similar to those experienced when >>> automatic translation is set to on. >>> Additionally, having to press dots 4-5-cord after inserting a letter in >>> the middle of a word is counterintuitive, and again, an implementation >>> far more primitive than anything else that offers contracted input. >>> Apple >>> seems to have implemented a pretty crude buffer, that is simply dumped >>> when you type one of two commands to empty it. That is not a solution. >>> The Braille implementation in iOS does not meet the “it’s intuitive and >>> it just works” test that has been the hallmark of Apple products >>> including VoiceOver. >>> Now if it were just about us as Braille reading adults, I wouldn’t >>> bother >>> writing this post. It would get on my nerves, but I’d continue to work >>> around it and just put it down to a bizarre, less than optimal >>> implementation. I’m not writing this for me. I’m not asking blind >>> people, >>> and the world’s consumer organisations, to come together on this for me >>> or people like me. I’m writing this for the kids. It’s the kids who >>> matter. >>> If you’re a Braille user, you’ll have seen the implementation of Nemeth >>> in iOS 7. It’s there because Apple’s going after the education market, >>> particularly in the US. Good for Apple. I can see enormous benefit in a >>> kid being given an iPad and a Braille display for use at home and in >>> school. Don’t underestimate how mainstream tech can be a great way to >>> help blind kids blend in with sighted kids. Parents feel more empowered, >>> because the iPad is technology they know and understand, so when the >>> child gets in trouble at home, they can help out. Classroom teachers in >>> mainstream schools know what an iPad is as well and feel similarly >>> empowered. >>> But all of these benefits have to be secondary considerations to the one >>> that matters above all else, – equipping our kids with good Braille >>> literacy skills. Braille is their ticket to higher education. Braille >>> offers a greater chance of gainful employment. Braille is absolutely >>> critical, and Braille is not to be trifled with. Half-baked Braille >>> solutions are not appropriate for our kids when there’s a crisis in >>> getting Braille instruction to them already. >>> We should not expect our kids to have to learn to work-around Apple’s >>> poor implementation, we should expect Apple to fix its Braille. >>> For the last 20 years or so, blind kids have increasingly used >>> proprietary notetaker technology. I’ve no problem whatsoever with >>> technology moving on, and a category of product becoming obsolete. I >>> love >>> the idea of investing in a good Braille display that will last you for >>> years, and upgrading the technology that drives the display on a more >>> regular basis. But that technology has to do the Braille properly. >>> There are cost savings to be made by cash-strapped agencies who purchase >>> equipment for blind children, and that’s also why I’m writing this post. >>> I can see bean-counters concluding that the combination of an iPad and a >>> Braille display is a good solution for kids now. Many of these >>> purchasers >>> are not Braille users themselves, and I believe we have a duty of care >>> to >>> our kids to spread the word that Apple is not there yet. It is trying, >>> and should be applauded for doing so, but still, it’s not there. >>> You will remember the huge backlash caused by the initial release of >>> Apple Maps in iOS 6. In terms of fitness for purpose, Apple Maps was far >>> superior at release than Braille is now. The only difference is that >>> Braille affects a tiny fraction of Apple’s user-base, not hundreds of >>> millions of people. >>> Lest anyone think I’m whining without a solution, I actually know a lot >>> about this subject, having worked as a product manager with a range of >>> products that use contracted Braille. I have a good feel for where Apple >>> has got it wrong and what it might do to fix it, while not of course >>> being familiar with the VoiceOver code. But I am absolutely confident >>> that it’s fixable. Let’s not forget, Apple invented a way for blind >>> people to make effective use of touch screens. Apple gave us unimagined >>> access to taking photos. It is certainly not beyond Apple to look at >>> best >>> practice and figure this one out, because unlike some of the other >>> things >>> it’s done, the solutions already exist. >>> If this poor-quality support had been offered to us by an assistive >>> technology company, we’d have jumped all over it long before now. But >>> given that Apple develops screen readers, that makes it both a >>> mainstream >>> technology company, and an assistive technology company. We should hold >>> it to no less a standard. >>> Having outlined the problem, here’s what I think needs to happen. >>> Typically, I’d suggest that Apple needs to engage with the community >>> with >>> a view to fixing these issues for the sake of our kids, but that’s not >>> really been its style. It is secretive by nature. In that case then, it >>> needs to buy the expertise to make Braille truly viable in the education >>> market. >>> As Braille readers, we need to politely articulate the problems to >>> Apple, >>> and let Apple know we consider it important that they are fixed. >>> Consumer organisations should do what they’ve done so many times before, >>> and focus on their unity when it comes to Braille issues. A >>> broad-coalition of consumers, educators and parents needs to ensure this >>> issue is not allowed to drop. >>> And finally, no one in charge of any purse strings should consider it an >>> appropriate solution to give a kid an iPad in the classroom if they’re a >>> Braille user. If purchasers want to move away from the blindness >>> notetaker, and I get that, a laptop and Braille display is a far better >>> solution in terms of Braille reliability and consistency. >>> I’ll be the first to cheer loudly, and sing Apple’s praises, if it fixes >>> its Braille. And I’ll continue to praise all it has done right, which I >>> often do in media interviews and blindness tech forums. But please, for >>> the sake of the kids, lets do what we need to do to advocate for good >>> quality Braille on Apple devices. We have a duty to the next generation >>> to do no less. >>> I’ve done what I can as an individual to make Apple aware of these >>> failings, but clearly, we need to do more to help it gain an >>> appreciation >>> of why this is so important. >>> Jonathan Mosen >>> Mosen Consulting >>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training >>> http://Mosen.org >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> >>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>> >>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> >> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. >> >> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> >> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. >> >> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> >> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. >> >> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> >> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. >> >> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google > Group. > > Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. > > Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > > Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing > viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. > > Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Isaac Hebert iMessage 2547608981 Skype gold_wildcat facebook and email isaac.heb...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. 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