Re: [virtio-dev] Re: [virtio-comment] RE: [virtio-dev] RE: [PATCH v12 03/10] content: Rename confusing queue_notify_data and vqn names
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 03:04:34 -0400 "Michael S. Tsirkin" wrote: > On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 05:18:44AM +0200, Halil Pasic wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 13:35:09 + > > Parav Pandit wrote: > > > > > > From: Cornelia Huck > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 4:56 AM > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, please leave it as F_CONFIG_DATA, as we're just putting some "data" > > > > there in the end (and F_CONFIG_COOKIE might indeed be confusing for the > > > > ccw case.) > > > > > > Since Halil didn't respond for 5+ days + Michel and you propose to > > > continue use CONFIG_DATA and this is rare used field, I will rename > > > > > > > Sorry, this one has fallen through the cracks. > > Well this whole patchset is just a cleanup so it's not holding up other > work at least. But I have to say it's difficult to make progress when > someone comes back from outer space after more than a week of silence > while others finished a discussion and reopens it with some new > feedback. Sorry, this was after 6 days. I didn't know that qualifies as 'outer space'. As pointed out below, I was monitoring the preceding discussion, and since the way things went was and is acceptable for me, I didn't want to muddy the waters any further. The issue I ended up addressing got introduced in very last email, which pre-announced the next version. My first intention was to explain myself, and apologize, after being called out. But then, also looking by looking at v13 I realized that there might have been a slip up because F_NOTIF_CONFIG_DATA got shortened to F_CONFIG_DATA in the discussion, which is no big deal for the discussion itself, but may have leaked in the v13 proposal. Parav has sent out the announced next version after about 8 hours. And if it weren't for my hypothesis why we ended up with the proposed name vq_config_data, the right place to discuss further would have been v13. In hindsight, I see, replying to the v12 thread wasn't a good move. [..] > > I also feel high latency is one of the reasons people are beginning to > ask to split into subcommitees where they won't have to deal with this > kind of thing. > I tend to agree. > Let's try to keep the latency low, please. Believe me, it is not like I'm actively trying to introduce extra latency. Regards, Halil > > For > > the preceding ones: I do not have a strong opinion. I do > > share Michael's and Connie's assessment regarding a possible > > clash with CCW. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
[virtio-dev] Re: [virtio-comment] RE: [virtio-dev] RE: [PATCH v12 03/10] content: Rename confusing queue_notify_data and vqn names
On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 05:18:44AM +0200, Halil Pasic wrote: > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 13:35:09 + > Parav Pandit wrote: > > > > From: Cornelia Huck > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 4:56 AM > > > > > > > > Yes, please leave it as F_CONFIG_DATA, as we're just putting some "data" > > > there in the end (and F_CONFIG_COOKIE might indeed be confusing for the > > > ccw case.) > > > > Since Halil didn't respond for 5+ days + Michel and you propose to continue > > use CONFIG_DATA and this is rare used field, I will rename > > > > Sorry, this one has fallen through the cracks. Well this whole patchset is just a cleanup so it's not holding up other work at least. But I have to say it's difficult to make progress when someone comes back from outer space after more than a week of silence while others finished a discussion and reopens it with some new feedback. I am not saying don't give feedback but I'm saying please help us all be more organized, feedback time really should be within a day or two, in rare cases up to a week. And I'd like to remind everyone if you are going away you are supposed to report a leave of absence. TC's that have meetings just take away voting rights from someone who does not attend two meetings in a row. We do it by ballot so this does not apply, but I think we should set some limits in group's bylaws, anyway. Ideas on formalizing this? If not we can just have informal guidelines. There's of course a flip side to this. Some patches seemingly go through two versions a day. Keeping up becomes a full time job. We'd need a guideline for that, too. I also feel high latency is one of the reasons people are beginning to ask to split into subcommitees where they won't have to deal with this kind of thing. Let's try to keep the latency low, please. > For > the preceding ones: I do not have a strong opinion. I do > share Michael's and Connie's assessment regarding a possible > clash with CCW. > > Let me just note that the feature ain't called, "F_CONFIG_DATA" (i.e. > with full name VIRTIO_F_CONFIG_DATA) but rather "F_NOTIF_CONFIG_DATA" > (i.e. with full name VIRTIO_F_NOTIF_CONFIG_DATA). > > > vqn to union of > > > > vq_index > > vq_config_data > > In that sense vq_config_data is not good in my opinion, because > it misses "notif" which is present in both "F_NOTIF_CONFIG_DATA" > and "queue_notify_data". > > > > Thanks. Will roll v13. > > > > I'm about tho have a look how this panned out in v13. I propose > let us continue the discussion there. > > Regards, > Halil > > > This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > > OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > > > > In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > > to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > > before posting. > > > > Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscr...@lists.oasis-open.org > > Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org > > List help: virtio-comment-h...@lists.oasis-open.org > > List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ > > Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > > List Guidelines: > > https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists > > Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > > Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
[virtio-dev] Re: [virtio-comment] RE: [virtio-dev] RE: [PATCH v12 03/10] content: Rename confusing queue_notify_data and vqn names
On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 13:35:09 + Parav Pandit wrote: > > From: Cornelia Huck > > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 4:56 AM > > > > > Yes, please leave it as F_CONFIG_DATA, as we're just putting some "data" > > there in the end (and F_CONFIG_COOKIE might indeed be confusing for the > > ccw case.) > > Since Halil didn't respond for 5+ days + Michel and you propose to continue > use CONFIG_DATA and this is rare used field, I will rename > Sorry, this one has fallen through the cracks. For the preceding ones: I do not have a strong opinion. I do share Michael's and Connie's assessment regarding a possible clash with CCW. Let me just note that the feature ain't called, "F_CONFIG_DATA" (i.e. with full name VIRTIO_F_CONFIG_DATA) but rather "F_NOTIF_CONFIG_DATA" (i.e. with full name VIRTIO_F_NOTIF_CONFIG_DATA). > vqn to union of > > vq_index > vq_config_data In that sense vq_config_data is not good in my opinion, because it misses "notif" which is present in both "F_NOTIF_CONFIG_DATA" and "queue_notify_data". > > Thanks. Will roll v13. > I'm about tho have a look how this panned out in v13. I propose let us continue the discussion there. Regards, Halil > This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > > In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > before posting. > > Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscr...@lists.oasis-open.org > Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org > List help: virtio-comment-h...@lists.oasis-open.org > List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ > Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists > Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
[virtio-dev] RE: [virtio-comment] RE: [virtio-dev] RE: [PATCH v12 03/10] content: Rename confusing queue_notify_data and vqn names
> From: Cornelia Huck > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 4:56 AM > > Yes, please leave it as F_CONFIG_DATA, as we're just putting some "data" > there in the end (and F_CONFIG_COOKIE might indeed be confusing for the > ccw case.) Since Halil didn't respond for 5+ days + Michel and you propose to continue use CONFIG_DATA and this is rare used field, I will rename vqn to union of vq_index vq_config_data Thanks. Will roll v13. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
[virtio-dev] Re: [virtio-comment] RE: [virtio-dev] RE: [PATCH v12 03/10] content: Rename confusing queue_notify_data and vqn names
On Fri, Apr 07 2023, "Michael S. Tsirkin" wrote: > On Wed, Apr 05, 2023 at 03:58:55PM +, Parav Pandit wrote: >> For sure "cookie" is better than "config_data" and I don't have objection to >> "cookie". >> >> But I disagree to the claim that "identifier" is less good than "cookie". >> >> It is pointless debate of "identifier" vs "cookie". >> >> The union format is very useful to describe this crisply, I will use it. > > I guess I'm fine with "cookie" in that in CS it is by now widely > understood to mean "some opaque data". > identifier comes from "identical", so implies a 1:1 mapping IMO. Agreed, a "cookie" is not the same as an "identifier", although it may contain one. > > > The logic behind using a cookie is that it's a bit similar > to host cookie from ccw. > However, with ccw host cookie is used unconditionally, as > opposed to depending on the flag. > > > >> Do you prefer to rename F_CONFIG_DATA To F_CONFIG_COOKIE? > > It should all be consistent, but I worry about ccw which uses cookies > unconditionally. I am fine with leaving it as F_CONFIG_DATA for now > unless we see a good way to avoid confusion for ccw. Yes, please leave it as F_CONFIG_DATA, as we're just putting some "data" there in the end (and F_CONFIG_COOKIE might indeed be confusing for the ccw case.) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-h...@lists.oasis-open.org
[virtio-dev] Re: [virtio-comment] RE: [virtio-dev] RE: [PATCH v12 03/10] content: Rename confusing queue_notify_data and vqn names
On Wed, Apr 05, 2023 at 03:58:55PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
> > From: Halil Pasic
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2023 11:28 AM
> >
> > On Wed, 5 Apr 2023 13:21:40 +
> > Parav Pandit wrote:
> >
> > > > VIRTIO_F_NOTIF_CONFIG_DATA is such a narrow usecase, I don't like
> > > > burning "vq identifier" on this. How about we just say something along
> > > > the
> > lines of:
> > > >
> > > Ok.
> > > >
> > > > When VIRTIO_F_NOTIFICATION_DATA has not been negotiated, this
> > > > notification involves sending either the virtqueue index or the
> > > > virtqueue config data to the device (method depending on the transport).
> > > >
> > > > And then "the data sent is a device supplied virtqueue config data".
> > > >
> > > Sounds fine. I will reword it.
> >
> > FYI in an other thread I proposed calling this a "cookie". Sorry for being
> > late to
> > the party. Yet again.
>
> If we spend (waste) more time, we will find many examples where "identifier"
> and "cookie" both are used in things associated with computer science.
>
> That too when same set of people has accepted text " internal virtqueue
> identifier" for same feature of CONFIG_DATA even though somehow it was not
> "id"!
because that's just an example:
In a trivial case the device can set \field{queue_notify_data}=vqn.
Some devices
may benefit from providing another value, for example an internal
virtqueue
identifier, or an internal offset related to the virtqueue number.
so the cookie can either be an identifier or something else.
> And when this spec refers to an RFC of UUID, session id (not "session
> cookie", even though session id is opaque and not meaningful to the recipient
> as per Wikipedia usage desc that you listed).
>
> For sure "cookie" is better than "config_data" and I don't have objection to
> "cookie".
>
> But I disagree to the claim that "identifier" is less good than "cookie".
>
> It is pointless debate of "identifier" vs "cookie".
>
> The union format is very useful to describe this crisply, I will use it.
I guess I'm fine with "cookie" in that in CS it is by now widely
understood to mean "some opaque data".
identifier comes from "identical", so implies a 1:1 mapping IMO.
The logic behind using a cookie is that it's a bit similar
to host cookie from ccw.
However, with ccw host cookie is used unconditionally, as
opposed to depending on the flag.
> Do you prefer to rename F_CONFIG_DATA To F_CONFIG_COOKIE?
It should all be consistent, but I worry about ccw which uses cookies
unconditionally. I am fine with leaving it as F_CONFIG_DATA for now
unless we see a good way to avoid confusion for ccw.
--
MST
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