Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Pete Mundy]

I think that part of the problem is that underlying wired backbone layer II 
network also needs to catch up on the port-change (possibly even switch-change) 
when the client is (invisibly) handed over to the new radio.

Think along the lines o 30-second MAC table timeout before broadcast occurs 
unless there is constant 2-way data through the tables on the necessary devices 
to immediately see the change (dependent on logical backbone layout).

The same problem exists with clients on non-.ah networks too.

IMHO DECT (even with repeaters) beats WiFi hands-down for voice.

Pete

On 22/09/2015, at 8:53 PM, Tim Bray  wrote:

> On 21/09/15 20:40, Robert Johnson wrote:
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Ubiquiti's UniFi WiFi line do just
>> that? Is there something I'm missing when a client moves closer to AP
>> "B" and the network dynamically hands off the connection to AP "B"?
> 
> In theory yes. Unifi Zero hand off does just this.  The client doesn't
> see the roam.
> 
> Real life experience suggests the zero handoff isn't great in real world
> conditions.   I've spent a long time playing with it on a few sites, and
> given up.  Instead adjusting the minrssi system which pushes the client
> to make a roam.
> 
> 
> Maybe if you had very regular buildings, an isolated network for VoIP
> (separate access points and L2), no neighbours using WiFi, then it might
> be better,
> 
> 
> There are some new UniFI APs coming out, so will be interesting to see
> if they are any different.
> 
> Tim
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Aaron Seelye]

On 9/19/15 8:42 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote:

- Original Message -

From: "Alex Balashov" 



On 09/08/2015 03:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:


Every Wifi phone I've tried will roam just fine between APs assuming
the APs are properly configured.


Really? Can this take place seamlessly mid-call? With DHCP? What about
DHCP lease acquisition delay?


An access point is an L1 bridge; everyone on the wireless side of every
AP are all on the same LAN with the same addressing.


Would such a configuration involve merely bridging all the APs on the
same LAN segment so that the same DHCP server feeds them? If so, where's
the guarantee that the DHCP server will lease out the same IP address
to the client?


Access points.  Not routers.


This implies that a level of intelligence/sophistication is (or isn't) 
in the client unit that when it bounces to a new AP it wouldn't run a 
refresh on the lease.  It would be very reasonable to think that an AP 
with the same name might be on a different subnet (different 
regions/depts of a large building, or whatever), which would then render 
the call dead.


What you're suggesting is intelligent handoffs similar to a cellular 
network.


-Aaron
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Robert Johnson]

On 09/21/2015 12:32 PM, Aaron Seelye wrote:
> On 9/19/15 8:42 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Alex Balashov" 
>>
>>> On 09/08/2015 03:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
>>>
 Every Wifi phone I've tried will roam just fine between APs assuming
 the APs are properly configured.
>>>
>>> Really? Can this take place seamlessly mid-call? With DHCP? What about
>>> DHCP lease acquisition delay?
>>
>> An access point is an L1 bridge; everyone on the wireless side of every
>> AP are all on the same LAN with the same addressing.
>>
>>> Would such a configuration involve merely bridging all the APs on the
>>> same LAN segment so that the same DHCP server feeds them? If so, where's
>>> the guarantee that the DHCP server will lease out the same IP address
>>> to the client?
>>
>> Access points.  Not routers.
> 
> This implies that a level of intelligence/sophistication is (or isn't)
> in the client unit that when it bounces to a new AP it wouldn't run a
> refresh on the lease.  It would be very reasonable to think that an AP
> with the same name might be on a different subnet (different
> regions/depts of a large building, or whatever), which would then render
> the call dead.
> 
> What you're suggesting is intelligent handoffs similar to a cellular
> network.
> 
> -Aaron
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Ubiquiti's UniFi WiFi line do just
that? Is there something I'm missing when a client moves closer to AP
"B" and the network dynamically hands off the connection to AP "B"?

-- 
Robert Johnson
BendTel, Inc.
(541)389-4020
Central Oregon's Own Telephone and Internet Service Provider
http://bendtel.com/about/
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Tim Bray]

On 08/09/15 20:45, Shripal Daphtary wrote:
> I would much prefer to use DECT, but right now the customer seems
> adamant to wifi.  not sure why.  have you used the TGP600s from panasonic

TGP600 is a fairly new product for us.  Launched about 3 months ago.
We've sold about 100, but we've had no complaints.

(Products usually take while to get going.  Usually 6 months to a year
before volume sales take off.  Everybody wants to play with the sample
for a few  months. )

Panasonic also took on  all of our feedback on previous products, and
used it to shape the new products coming through.  So quite a long
development time, but they really did listen.

One of Panasonic's developers is visiting us today to look at an issue
with another phone

Tim
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Tim Bray]

On 08/09/15 18:05, Shripal Daphtary wrote:
> Hello All, 
> 
> I'm looking to implement 6-10 WIFI phones for a 3 floor restaurant using
> unifi AP-PRO's.  i'm not sure if they are using zero handoff on the
> AP's, but i'm sure they can implement, if they need to. 
> 


I'm presuming you need to be able to use any handset on any floor of the
restaurant.  And uou really need 10 phones.

Then you are just into the bottom end of needing an enterprise DECT
system. I would use something like the:


- gigaset N720
- panasonic KX-UDS124UK
- RTX   RTX 8630/8660(which is the same as the snom roaming dect)


These are all roaming dect systems.  You are going to have to do some
site survey work to get the distance between the bases correct.  In
Dect, the bases have to see each other over the air to synchronize timing.


I've never really found a wifi (as in wireless lan) combination which is
good enough for handoff.  unifi zero handoff doesn't really work well.
Maybe with cisco APs and cisco phones, but I haven't really tried that.


>  I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a good (and
> simple) SIP Wifi hadsets.  we wanted to use a yealink w52, but because
> the repeaters only support one base, it wont work for this implementation.  

Difference between a dect base designed for SME, and a dect base for
enterprise.

If you only want 6 handsets.  And only need 4 calls.  And 2 of the phone
calls will always be in range of the base station.  And all phone on 4
SIP accounts (so 2 handsets share a SIP account with another handset)

You could use:

Gigaset N510IP  (supports 4 calls, and 6 handsets)

RTX Pro repeaters.  (up to 6 repeaters).  The repeaters can do repeater
to repeater links.


But really makesure you understand the limitations of this setup.

You can't put 6 SIP accounts into a ring group on your PBX, because only
the first 4 will ring (because the base can only do 4 calls)

Also be aware that gigaset have different variants (read, limits on how
many calls) for each country.  So double check.

***

And one more option would be:

Panasonic KX-TGP600

http://business.panasonic.co.uk/communication-solutions/PBX-SIP/business-SIP-systems/SIP-DECT-single-base-unit/KX-TGP600


This supports 8 handsets and 8 calls.  And support repeaters.  So for an
8 handset solution, this might fit really well.

There is also a KX-TPA65   This is a dect desk phone.  I know that one
of the problems is restaurants is people stealing the handsets.  We've
had a lot of customers turn down dect solutions because worried the
handsets will walk off.   If you use the deskphone and screw to the
desk, it won't move.  And you still get the easy installation without
having to run a cat5.




I think the Panasonic probably best for you, if 8 handsets are enough.

(sorry, that's a long email)

Tim



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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Shripal Daphtary]

Great Tim. Thanks for the input here. I'll take a look at the dect  options 
below. 

Shripal

> On Sep 9, 2015, at 6:17 AM, Tim Bray  wrote:
> 
>> On 08/09/15 18:05, Shripal Daphtary wrote:
>> Hello All, 
>> 
>> I'm looking to implement 6-10 WIFI phones for a 3 floor restaurant using
>> unifi AP-PRO's.  i'm not sure if they are using zero handoff on the
>> AP's, but i'm sure they can implement, if they need to.
> 
> 
> I'm presuming you need to be able to use any handset on any floor of the
> restaurant.  And uou really need 10 phones.
> 
> Then you are just into the bottom end of needing an enterprise DECT
> system. I would use something like the:
> 
> 
> - gigaset N720
> - panasonic KX-UDS124UK
> - RTXRTX 8630/8660(which is the same as the snom roaming dect)
> 
> 
> These are all roaming dect systems.  You are going to have to do some
> site survey work to get the distance between the bases correct.  In
> Dect, the bases have to see each other over the air to synchronize timing.
> 
> 
> I've never really found a wifi (as in wireless lan) combination which is
> good enough for handoff.  unifi zero handoff doesn't really work well.
> Maybe with cisco APs and cisco phones, but I haven't really tried that.
> 
> 
>> I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a good (and
>> simple) SIP Wifi hadsets.  we wanted to use a yealink w52, but because
>> the repeaters only support one base, it wont work for this implementation.  
> 
> Difference between a dect base designed for SME, and a dect base for
> enterprise.
> 
> If you only want 6 handsets.  And only need 4 calls.  And 2 of the phone
> calls will always be in range of the base station.  And all phone on 4
> SIP accounts (so 2 handsets share a SIP account with another handset)
> 
> You could use:
> 
> Gigaset N510IP  (supports 4 calls, and 6 handsets)
> 
> RTX Pro repeaters.  (up to 6 repeaters).  The repeaters can do repeater
> to repeater links.
> 
> 
> But really makesure you understand the limitations of this setup.
> 
> You can't put 6 SIP accounts into a ring group on your PBX, because only
> the first 4 will ring (because the base can only do 4 calls)
> 
> Also be aware that gigaset have different variants (read, limits on how
> many calls) for each country.  So double check.
> 
> ***
> 
> And one more option would be:
> 
> Panasonic KX-TGP600
> 
> http://business.panasonic.co.uk/communication-solutions/PBX-SIP/business-SIP-systems/SIP-DECT-single-base-unit/KX-TGP600
> 
> 
> This supports 8 handsets and 8 calls.  And support repeaters.  So for an
> 8 handset solution, this might fit really well.
> 
> There is also a KX-TPA65   This is a dect desk phone.  I know that one
> of the problems is restaurants is people stealing the handsets.  We've
> had a lot of customers turn down dect solutions because worried the
> handsets will walk off.   If you use the deskphone and screw to the
> desk, it won't move.  And you still get the easy installation without
> having to run a cat5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Panasonic probably best for you, if 8 handsets are enough.
> 
> (sorry, that's a long email)
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Shripal Daphtary]

Alex, the base is in the basement (as is the kitchen), the somelier office
is on the third floor.  they shuttle back and forth between the top and the
bottom.  the experience that i have had with the yealink w52p dect, is 20
feet in an open plan office and they start to suck.  they're just crappy it
seems.  TGP500 same (maybe 50 feet), the tgp600 says 50 meters and each
repeater adds another 50 meters (indoors).

Since they have ubnt AP-Pro's and chris states that zero handoff is not
supported, i think i'm going to have to try to sell them on a dect
solution.



On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Alex Balashov 
wrote:

> On 09/08/2015 03:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
>
> The challenge with DECT is that "range" is relative to a single base
>> station/AP versus roaming between base stations/APs.
>>
>
> Also: just how much range do you need in a restaurant, unless the
> restaurant in question is the residence of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al
> Maktoum?
>
> You and I both have Plantronics CSxxx DECT headsets and the range is very
> impressive. In my case with the CS540, I can straight-up leave the
> building, on whose third floor my office is situated, go through the
> parking deck, and take a walk up the road without any degradation.
>
> -- Alex
>
>
> --
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
> 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
> Atlanta, GA 30346
> United States
>
> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Daniel-Constantin Mierla]

On 08/09/15 21:43, Alex Balashov wrote:
> On 09/08/2015 03:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
>
>> Every Wifi phone I've tried will roam just fine between APs assuming the
>> APs are properly configured.
>
> Really? Can this take place seamlessly mid-call? With DHCP? What about
> DHCP lease acquisition delay?
>
> Would such a configuration involve merely bridging all the APs onto
> the same LAN segment so that the same DHCP server feeds them? If so,
> where's the guarantee that the DHCP server will lease out the same IP
> address to the client?
>
> Or is this really a static IP + WAP association-only undertaking?
If it is an AP for same WiFi network (same lan), it should just work --
there won't be any IP change, only transmission on physical layer will
have a different path.

Cheers,
Daniel

-- 
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http://twitter.com/#!/miconda - http://www.linkedin.com/in/miconda
Book: SIP Routing With Kamailio - http://www.asipto.com
Kamailio Advanced Training, Sep 28-30, 2015, in Berlin - http://asipto.com/u/kat

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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Paul Timmins]

On 09/08/2015 03:43 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:

On 09/08/2015 03:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:


Every Wifi phone I've tried will roam just fine between APs assuming the
APs are properly configured.


Really? Can this take place seamlessly mid-call? With DHCP? What about 
DHCP lease acquisition delay?


Would such a configuration involve merely bridging all the APs onto 
the same LAN segment so that the same DHCP server feeds them? If so, 
where's the guarantee that the DHCP server will lease out the same IP 
address to the client?


Or is this really a static IP + WAP association-only undertaking?


Why would your client mess with DHCP on roaming? Mine at home never do. 
I roam between 3 of them several times a day, a proper handoff on both 
sides means i don't even realize it happening, let alone re-associate 
with DHCP and all that jazz - it happens at the MAC layer and isn't 
visible to the OS unless it asks the current station BSSID and decides 
to do something about it. "APs properly configured" comes into play here 
heavily.

-Paul
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Alex Balashov]

On 09/08/2015 03:54 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:


a proper handoff on both sides means i don't even realize it happening,
let alone re-associate with DHCP and all that jazz - it happens at the
MAC layer and isn't visible to the OS unless it asks the current station
BSSID and decides to do something about it. "APs properly configured"
comes into play here heavily.


In principle, yes, but I've never seen an OS network management 
infrastructure which eliminates this bureaucracy when switching APs or 
does this seamlessly.


For example, as far as I know, neither my Ubuntu laptop nor my Android 
phone will automatically switch APs with the same ESSID. They'll hang 
onto the old AP for as long as possible, then drop it and reassociate, 
with DHCP jazz and all. However, I would think that putting the client 
on a static IP would largely obviate this.


Have I just missed a subtle shift in implementation over the last few 
years? I don't have two APs handy. Or are WiFi SIP phones specifically 
designed to work as you describe?


--
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303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Alex Balashov]

On 09/08/2015 03:53 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:


DHCP is only requested when the client associates with a new SSID, not
when it moves between APs.


That wasn't the case last time I tried it, but that was a number of 
years ago. I'll consider myself schooled -- thanks folks!


--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Rob Dawson]

>>> Really? Can this take place seamlessly mid-call? With DHCP? What about DHCP 
>>> lease acquisition delay?

>>>Would such a configuration involve merely bridging all the APs onto the same 
>>>LAN segment so that the same DHCP server feeds them? If so, where's the 
>>>guarantee that the DHCP server will lease out the same IP address to the 
>>>client?

I can't speak to other Wi-Fi phones, but the Cisco 7921G and 7925g models 
certainly work this way, I've deployed a bunch of then on CUCM. The assumption 
would be that any of the SSIDs that the phone would associate with would be on 
the same VLAN/IP subnet, same DHCP server, etc. That is how I have seen it 
deployed. Typically, when a client with an existing DHCP binding sends a 
request it receives the same IP address in its new lease. I believe the RFC is 
actually written that way.

I am also going to second (or third) DECT for this application. Spectralink has 
a complete line of DECT servers, repeaters, etc. but to be honest I have 
covered an entire floor of a commercial building with one server/base station.


Force 3

Rob Dawson
Solutions Architect

O 410-774-7153
M 571-234-2621
2151 Priest Bridge Dr. Crofton, MD 21114
Check out the new Force3.com !  

-Original Message-
From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-boun...@voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 3:43 PM
To: voiceops@voiceops.org
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

On 09/08/2015 03:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:

> Every Wifi phone I've tried will roam just fine between APs assuming 
> the APs are properly configured.

Really? Can this take place seamlessly mid-call? With DHCP? What about DHCP 
lease acquisition delay?

Would such a configuration involve merely bridging all the APs onto the same 
LAN segment so that the same DHCP server feeds them? If so, where's the 
guarantee that the DHCP server will lease out the same IP address to the client?

Or is this really a static IP + WAP association-only undertaking?

-- Alex

--
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303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ 
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Alex Balashov]

I take it that DECT headsets or handsets are out of question?

They would certainly have better range and quality than WiFi.

On 09/08/2015 01:05 PM, Shripal Daphtary wrote:


Hello All,

I'm looking to implement 6-10 WIFI phones for a 3 floor restaurant using
unifi AP-PRO's.  i'm not sure if they are using zero handoff on the
AP's, but i'm sure they can implement, if they need to.


  I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a good (and
simple) SIP Wifi hadsets.  we wanted to use a yealink w52, but because
the repeaters only support one base, it wont work for this implementation.

Customer is coming off a call manager with Cisco 7925s, which are really
solid, but we can't support them.

Thx
Shri


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United States

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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Shripal Daphtary]

I would much prefer to use DECT, but right now the customer seems adamant
to wifi.  not sure why.  have you used the TGP600s from panasonic?

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alex Balashov 
wrote:

> I take it that DECT headsets or handsets are out of question?
>
> They would certainly have better range and quality than WiFi.
>
>
> On 09/08/2015 01:05 PM, Shripal Daphtary wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>>
>> I'm looking to implement 6-10 WIFI phones for a 3 floor restaurant using
>> unifi AP-PRO's.  i'm not sure if they are using zero handoff on the
>> AP's, but i'm sure they can implement, if they need to.
>>
>>
>>   I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a good (and
>> simple) SIP Wifi hadsets.  we wanted to use a yealink w52, but because
>> the repeaters only support one base, it wont work for this implementation.
>>
>> Customer is coming off a call manager with Cisco 7925s, which are really
>> solid, but we can't support them.
>>
>> Thx
>> Shri
>>
>>
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>>
>
> --
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
> 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
> Atlanta, GA 30346
> United States
>
> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Carlos Alvarez]

>
> Really? Can this take place seamlessly mid-call? With DHCP? What about
> DHCP lease acquisition delay?
>

Yup, mid-call.  I've roamed around the marina you visited with me for
example, without ever dropping the call and with nearly no perceptible
hand-off noise.  There is no DHCP exchange when roaming between APs on the
same network with the same SSID.  You would drop the call if you roamed
between networks, and I'm pretty sure you would also if you changed SSID.


> Would such a configuration involve merely bridging all the APs onto the
> same LAN segment so that the same DHCP server feeds them? If so, where's
> the guarantee that the DHCP server will lease out the same IP address to
> the client?
>

You can put any number of APs on the same LAN without DHCP being involved
in hand-offs, ever.  DHCP is only requested when the client associates with
a new SSID, not when it moves between APs.


> Or is this really a static IP + WAP association-only undertaking?
>

 Static is not needed.
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[mgraves]

 Original Message - Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones 
recommendations
From: "Shripal Daphtary" <shrip...@gmail.com>
Date: 9/8/15 2:53 pm
To: "Alex Balashov" <abalas...@evaristesys.com>
Cc: "VoiceOps@voiceops.org" <voiceops@voiceops.org>

 Alex, the base is in the basement (as is the kitchen), the somelier office is 
on the third floor.  they shuttle back and forth between the top and the 
bottom.  the experience that i have had with the yealink w52p dect, is 20 feet 
in an open plan office and they start to suck.  they're just crappy it seems.  
TGP500 same (maybe 50 feet), the tgp600 says 50 meters and each repeater adds 
another 50 meters (indoors).   
Since they have ubnt AP-Pro's and chris states that zero handoff is not 
supported, i think i'm going to have to try to sell them on a dect solution. 
 
 


   My Sennheiser DECT headset lets me roam 40m before it degrades. In my case, 
that's on the other side of of our house, so line-of-sight is completely lost. 
A repeater would help that.
 
The limit to DECT that's not to easy to overcome is concurrent calls. Most 
current consumer-ish/SMB gear is limited to 4 concurrent calls.


   

 On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com> 
wrote:
 On 09/08/2015 03:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
 
  The challenge with DECT is that "range" is relative to a single base
 station/AP versus roaming between base stations/APs. Also: just how much range 
do you need in a restaurant, unless the restaurant in question is the residence 
of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum?

 You and I both have Plantronics CSxxx DECT headsets and the range is very 
impressive. In my case with the CS540, I can straight-up leave the building, on 
whose third floor my office is situated, go through the parking deck, and take 
a walk up the road without any degradation.
 
 -- Alex  

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 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
 Atlanta, GA 30346
 United States

 Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Paul Timmins]

On 09/08/2015 03:58 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
In principle, yes, but I've never seen an OS network management 
infrastructure which eliminates this bureaucracy when switching APs or 
does this seamlessly.


For example, as far as I know, neither my Ubuntu laptop nor my Android 
phone will automatically switch APs with the same ESSID. They'll hang 
onto the old AP for as long as possible, then drop it and reassociate, 
with DHCP jazz and all. However, I would think that putting the client 
on a static IP would largely obviate this.


Have I just missed a subtle shift in implementation over the last few 
years? I don't have two APs handy. Or are WiFi SIP phones specifically 
designed to work as you describe
I'm using Meraki MR16 and MR12 throughout my house. It will request 
clients reallocate themselves to access points as needed to balance out 
traffic, if you want. None of this stuff including my Macbook Pro, my 
Nexus 6, my iPad 2 3G, or my HP Windows 10 tablet hybrid thingy seem to 
have any trouble, or even knowledge of which one they're on. I've 
rebooted the main one and it's invisible to me, as the clients get 
shoved to the next wired AP they can reach instead, then it goes down 
for reboot.


-Paul
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Alex Balashov]

On 09/08/2015 03:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:


The challenge with DECT is that "range" is relative to a single base
station/AP versus roaming between base stations/APs.


Also: just how much range do you need in a restaurant, unless the 
restaurant in question is the residence of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al 
Maktoum?


You and I both have Plantronics CSxxx DECT headsets and the range is 
very impressive. In my case with the CS540, I can straight-up leave the 
building, on whose third floor my office is situated, go through the 
parking deck, and take a walk up the road without any degradation.


-- Alex

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303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Carlos Alvarez]

You can't compare home range with commercial range.  Many commercial
buildings have far more challenging environments as far as noise and
blocking surfaces.  Going from one floor to another is always worse than
horizontal range for a variety of reasons.  For example, antennas are
generally oriented to spread signal horizontally, but not vertically.  The
higher the dB gain, the more true this is.  My best guess is that a DECT
base probably has a 3dB antenna, which means 3dB more power to the sides as
to the top.  Every 3dB is a doubling of the power, because it's a
logarithmic scale.  Most commercial buildings employee concrete/rebar
between floors, unlike the simple wood in most homes.  Both of those are
terrible for radio signals.

I've covered single-story 2k square foot restaurants with DECT, but they
could barely make the phone work when going next door to their offices in
another suite.  In a commercial office environment I've found that roaming
floors with DECT was a total failure.


>
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 12:49 PM Alex Balashov 
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/08/2015 03:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
>>
>> > The challenge with DECT is that "range" is relative to a single base
>> > station/AP versus roaming between base stations/APs.
>>
>> Also: just how much range do you need in a restaurant, unless the
>> restaurant in question is the residence of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al
>> Maktoum?
>>
>> You and I both have Plantronics CSxxx DECT headsets and the range is
>> very impressive. In my case with the CS540, I can straight-up leave the
>> building, on whose third floor my office is situated, go through the
>> parking deck, and take a walk up the road without any degradation.
>>
>> -- Alex
>>
>> --
>> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
>> 303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
>> Atlanta, GA 30346
>> United States
>>
>> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
>> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
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>
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Peter Rad.]

You can link base stations for DECT according to snom into a meshed network


On 9/8/2015 3:35 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
The challenge with DECT is that "range" is relative to a single base 
station/AP versus roaming between base stations/APs.  I'm no expert on 
DECT, but what I've seen is that most of them don't roam between 
bases.  The ones that do cost more, such as the Polycom/Spectralink 
stuff.  I like and use some basic Panasonic DECT stuff, but last time 
I checked it could not roam between bases (they said they might in the 
future).


Every Wifi phone I've tried will roam just fine between APs assuming 
the APs are properly configured.  Some people are idiots and put the 
APs on different SSIDs, which kills roaming.



On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 12:24 PM Alex Balashov 
> wrote:


I take it that DECT headsets or handsets are out of question?

They would certainly have better range and quality than WiFi.

On 09/08/2015 01:05 PM, Shripal Daphtary wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I'm looking to implement 6-10 WIFI phones for a 3 floor
restaurant using
> unifi AP-PRO's.  i'm not sure if they are using zero handoff on the
> AP's, but i'm sure they can implement, if they need to.
>
>
>   I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a good (and
> simple) SIP Wifi hadsets.  we wanted to use a yealink w52, but
because
> the repeaters only support one base, it wont work for this
implementation.
>
> Customer is coming off a call manager with Cisco 7925s, which
are really
> solid, but we can't support them.
>
> Thx
> Shri
>
>
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303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Martin Glazer]

Have you looked at the Aastra/Mitel SIP DECT system?

They have a reasonably priced DECT system that allows roaming between 
access points and 8 simultaneous voice channels per access point.

http://www.mitel.com/mitel-sip-dect

We deployed the Aastra system a number of years ago and it worked really 
well.


Martin
www.eGuest.ca


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Re: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations

[Shripal Daphtary]

Thanks David, I should have clarified, we need "portable phones"

thanks, shri

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 1:10 PM, David Bauman <da...@ushost.com> wrote:

> I’ve had good luck with the Cisco SPA525G2.  You can configure via
> ftp/http/tftp or connect directly to the phone’s web ui.
>
> David Bauman
>
>
>
> From: VoiceOps <voiceops-boun...@voiceops.org> on behalf of Shripal
> Daphtary <shrip...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 1:05 PM
> To: "VoiceOps@voiceops.org" <voiceops@voiceops.org>
> Subject: [VoiceOps] WiFi SIP phones recommendations
>
> Hello All,
>
> I'm looking to implement 6-10 WIFI phones for a 3 floor restaurant using
> unifi AP-PRO's.  i'm not sure if they are using zero handoff on the AP's,
> but i'm sure they can implement, if they need to.
>
>
>  I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a good (and simple)
> SIP Wifi hadsets.  we wanted to use a yealink w52, but because the
> repeaters only support one base, it wont work for this implementation.
>
> Customer is coming off a call manager with Cisco 7925s, which are really
> solid, but we can't support them.
>
> Thx
> Shri
>
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