[volt-nuts] Datron 1271

2015-03-11 Thread frank . stellmach
Hello Mickle,
 
many thanks for these documents!
 
Do you know, whether Datron 1271, 1281 are identical in hardware, and Fluke 
8508A very similar to the Datron instruments, concerning the main PCB?
Maybe differences between 8508 and 1281, only concerning volt references and 
user inetrface?
 
Frank


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Re: [volt-nuts] OCD About My HP419A Attenuator Switch Gold Plated Contacts

2015-03-11 Thread ed breya
Yes, you are being a little too OCD about this. Instrument washing 
issues come up often, and there are plenty of opinions available - 
here are some of mine:


In the 419s that I have, the battery leakage crud has not gone beyond 
the circuit boards or maybe the edge connectors. Cleaning the boards 
should take care of it, and it's not that complicated. For stubborn 
alkaline deposits, a vinegar wash (if necessary) should neutralize 
and descale, followed by scrubbing with liquid dish detergent and a 
toothbrush, and then lots of rinsing with hot tap water and finally 
thorough drying - preferably with an oven, but air drying for a 
couple of days should suffice. Blasting with compressed air helps to 
get most of the water out.


Don't bother with pH indicators - I doubt they would show much unless 
there's so much crud that you can see it anyway. If KOH has gotten 
onto any critical circuits, it could cause symptoms such as excessive 
leakage currents, since it's hygroscopic and would tend to be ionized 
and conductive on the surfaces. If you are concerned about the 
switches, you can wash the whole thing with tap water and liquid 
detergent. First, remove or protect the meter movement and any 
batteries, and maybe the pilot light. As I recall, the rest is pretty 
much open so easy to flush out. There are different schools of 
thought about items such as power transformers and pots - you have to 
apply judgement on whether they will wash out and dry OK. If in 
doubt, protect them from the washing process.


When washing electronics, always finish with an alkaline (like liquid 
detergent) to neutral (water or alcohol) step before rinsing - you 
don't want any acidic residue left anywhere. Lots of rinsing and 
thorough drying is always good - several days of air drying for a 
whole instrument. You may have to relube some of the switches - I 
don't recall if they have grease on the contacts or mechanisms.


Ed

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Re: [volt-nuts] OCD About My HP419A Attenuator Switch Gold Plated Contacts

2015-03-11 Thread Neville Michie

Potassium Hydroxide absorbs carbon dioxide from the air quite rapidly, so what 
you find on a circuit board is much more insoluble potassium carbonate and/or 
bicarbonate. Being an ionic compound you may well find copper carbonate, zinc 
carbonate, tin carbonate and lead carbonate from other metals on the board that 
have been dissolved. So judicious use of a weak acid, like acetic acid, may be 
necessary to dissolve these deposits. 
After that plenty of demineralised water and a long drying period in front of a 
fan.
cheers, 
Neville Michie
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Re: [volt-nuts] OCD About My HP419A Attenuator Switch Gold Plated Contacts

2015-03-11 Thread M K

On 11/03/2015 06:26, Chuck Harris wrote:

Does KOH really evaporate, and spread in the wind?

I don't think it does.

In my experience, the damage done by nicad's is limited to
where the electrolyte dribbles, spatters, or wicks.
Powdered electrolyte can get all over things, but usually
it can be just brushed away, as it is not too corrosive
when dry.

If the switches are not covered with KOH dust and crust, I
truly doubt that they have any measurable amount of KOH
inside of them.

However,

If you want to be really sure, go to your grocery store and
buy yourself a gallon of steam distilled water for $0.50, or
so, and an empty spray bottle, like is used for window cleaner
and liberally hose out the switches and any other area you
are concerned about.

When you are done, shake, blow, or simply let drip as much
water as you can off of the unit.  Set the unit up next to
a fan, and let the fan blow air on it for a couple of days.

It will dry out.

If you want to be doubly sure, a convection oven is the
answer.  There are several ways you can get one on the cheap.
If your house has an electric convection oven in the kitchen,
you can use that set to 150F (50-60C).  Or, you can put a
muffin fan on a simple stand, and put it in an electric oven,
with the door closed, and the oven light turned on.  (Gas
ovens are fine too, if they do not have a pilot light.)

And, if you want to stay away from the kitchen, you can fashion
a simple convection oven using a cardboard box, a 40W lamp,
and a small muffin fan.  Make sure the box is big enough so
that the lamp is no closer than 12 inches from any side of the
box, and make sure that the fan and lamp cannot fall over, or
the box move and cause issues... don't want to make a fire
hazard.

-Chuck Harris

Stan Katz wrote:
Now that I've restored my HP419A to running order for the meantime, I 
have

nagging questions regarding the continuous use of the attenuator switch.
The main board of the instrument, A4, was badly polluted with an 
invisible

layer of potassium hydroxide from the 30 years of being in the same box
with dead/mummified nicad batteries.

In accordance with
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC43-206part2.pdf 
I

prepared a 3% boric acid solution and flushed the affected circuit board
several times, while scrubbing with a soft nylon toothbrush. I then 
flushed
the board with hot water. After leaving the board on my furnace 
plenum for
a few days to thoroughly dry out, the board problem was sorted out. 
If the

KOH deposited an invisible layer on A4, then certainly, there must be a
layer of KOH on the attenuator switch's gold contacts, as well. I 
posted my

concern about the KOH on a premier chemistry forum. The administrator
himself answered my query. He indicated that the only way to remove 
the KOH
from the switch is to thoroughly flush with di water.  There's no 
place for
a flushing stream of water to exit the instrument safely.   I'm not 
about
to remove the switch! Now, I don't know the hardness of KOH, but 
Potassium

has a very small .5 mohs of hardness. I presume, that KOH is similar. In
any event, I would tend to believe there will be some small abrasive 
wear
from the KOH. The attenuator on a null meter is heavily utilized, and 
even
a light abrasive can cause trouble eventually.  Proper gold plating, 
that's
kept clean, never suffers from abrasive wear. Improper plating, can 
suffer
from adhesive wear, but I have confidence that the HP of the 
1960s-80s was
using the finest gold plating available.  I thought about applying 
one the
the Deoxit products. A careful reading of the Deoxit literature 
claims that
the D-series treatment is for non-critical metal surfaces. I think 
that
the gold plating in the HP419A qualifies as quite critical. The 
Deoxit G

series literature leads me to believe it may not have enough cleaning
action to flush out the KOH. Also, please note, only the removal of 
oxides
is mentioned as a feature of the Deoxit line. What other corrosion 
products

that may be removed are not mentioned.

A proper science project would be to obtain Bromothymol blue indicator
solution, and prepare it with Phosphoric acid in accordance with the 
above
citation. I could then apply it to the switch contacts ( in itself a 
PITA

job ), and then try the Deoxit G series, and perhaps other brands of
contact cleaner to see if the KOH is truly removed without resorting to
water. I'm actually willing to take on such a project ( it's a hobby, 
after

all ), but I don't even know how to procure a proper concentration of
Bromothymol blue from over the internet. Without access to purchase 
orders

through a university, or corporation, even innocuous chemicals are
unobtainable from US chemical supply houses directly by individuals. 
There
are lots of offers on Ebay, but I have no way of knowing if what's 
sold is

a the proper concentration. I don't even know how to specify what that
concentration should be.

Yes, I should get on with