RE: [Vo]:Stationary Fresnel Array (Hybrid)
--- On Sun, 5/4/08, Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Vo]:Stationary Fresnel Array (Hybrid) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, May 4, 2008, 4:47 PM I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm reminded of what I thought was a clever design of a supermarket bar code reader, whereby they built the conventional spinning mirrors/optics system, then took a hologram of the system, and now just spin the laser illuminated hologram to scan the complex raster on the bar code. Yes, it's relevant. It's relevant as an example of misapplication of technology. I was briefly involved in that one. These discs were made with dichromated gelatin, a wonderful but touchy and tempermental holographic recording medium, a medium for which I am incorrectly given credit for inventing in some books. These were eventually shown to be more expensive than the optics they replaced, and certainly more expensive than the simple oscillating scanner mirrors that replaced them. I worked as a consultant about 25 years ago for a company that had a DOE contract to research holographic solar energy concentrators. The people who had the contract were just a group of scientists who were good at getting government contracts. They hadn't a clue how this might actually be done, and weren't about to tell the DOE representative who showed up periodically. Essentially, I did all the work and they would make sure I wasn't around when the DOE showed up. Their basic idea was to make flat holographic reflectors with a virtual parabola. Again dichromated gelatin was used as the recording medium. There were to be three closely space foci, each a different spectral band, in other words, RGB. The purpose of this was to allow IR wavelenths pass through the holographic reflector to avoid heating three different photovoltaics, whose maximum efficiency would be at the three wavelengths. I pointed out to these geniuses that it would be far cheaper to use fresnel lenses coupled with transmission blazed diffraction gratings to achieve the same result. They said not to mention anything about that, because they would lose their DOE funding. So I went ahead and did what they wanted and left. This part is the most fun. A month or two after I left, they called me in a panic, saying they suddenly couldn't duplicate my results. The reflective efficiency and wavelength separation had dropped dramatically. I told them their problem lay in the coating, which they initially didn't believe. To shorten a rather long and comical story, they had to pay me ten grand for three words, Make it thicker. That was so sweet. This whole enterprise was a lesson to me in how government contracts are funded and for what reasons. These guys spent millions on this boondoggle and they knew that's what it was. M. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[Vo]:Re: Stationary Fresnel Array (Hybrid)
Michael (superb site and products BTW, thanks for your explanations), Back on the concentrated PV topic Jones's solution seems overkill to me, I wonder if a single film entirely occupied by adjacent non-imaging concentrators, laminated onto the solar panel dotted with cells localized at, and in direct contact with, the array's concentrated light outlets, wouldn't do the trick. Another use of such a film occurs to me, it could be metallized on the output side, everywhere except at the light outlets, so that it would let most sunlight in on the input side, from a very wide angle, but only a small fraction of light and heat out on the metallized side, which would reflect them like a survival blanket. This could be used in thermal solar applications (water heaters, combined heating and insulation of eexternal surfaces of buildings). Would such schemes work do you think, and would the film be manufacturable, and if so can it be done with a smooth easy to clean surface on the input side? (I assume you would know!) Michel - Original Message - From: Michael Foster To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:13 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Stationary Fresnel Array (Hybrid) --- On Sun, 5/4/08, Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Vo]:Stationary Fresnel Array (Hybrid) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, May 4, 2008, 4:47 PM I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm reminded of what I thought was a clever design of a supermarket bar code reader, whereby they built the conventional spinning mirrors/optics system, then took a hologram of the system, and now just spin the laser illuminated hologram to scan the complex raster on the bar code. Yes, it's relevant. It's relevant as an example of misapplication of technology. I was briefly involved in that one. These discs were made with dichromated gelatin, a wonderful but touchy and tempermental holographic recording medium, a medium for which I am incorrectly given credit for inventing in some books. These were eventually shown to be more expensive than the optics they replaced, and certainly more expensive than the simple oscillating scanner mirrors that replaced them. I worked as a consultant about 25 years ago for a company that had a DOE contract to research holographic solar energy concentrators. The people who had the contract were just a group of scientists who were good at getting government contracts. They hadn't a clue how this might actually be done, and weren't about to tell the DOE representative who showed up periodically. Essentially, I did all the work and they would make sure I wasn't around when the DOE showed up. Their basic idea was to make flat holographic reflectors with a virtual parabola. Again dichromated gelatin was used as the recording medium. There were to be three closely space foci, each a different spectral band, in other words, RGB. The purpose of this was to allow IR wavelenths pass through the holographic reflector to avoid heating three different photovoltaics, whose maximum efficiency would be at the three wavelengths. I pointed out to these geniuses that it would be far cheaper to use fresnel lenses coupled with transmission blazed diffraction gratings to achieve the same result. They said not to mention anything about that, because they would lose their DOE funding. So I went ahead and did what they wanted and left. This part is the most fun. A month or two after I left, they called me in a panic, saying they suddenly couldn't duplicate my results. The reflective efficiency and wavelength separation had dropped dramatically. I told them their problem lay in the coating, which they initially didn't believe. To shorten a rather long and comical story, they had to pay me ten grand for three words, Make it thicker. That was so sweet. This whole enterprise was a lesson to me in how government contracts are funded and for what reasons. These guys spent millions on this boondoggle and they knew that's what it was. M. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [Vo]:Question regarding basic solid mechanics and one directional applied stress
Hi This is a traditional basic question in solid mechanics and there is nothing special with it. I am interested in the earth crust and bore holes in it. Gravity is causing vertical stress on the crust but it is not obvious if the horizontal stress is positive or negative. One problem is if the crust can expand sideways and thus have a horizontal stress or if the geometry only allows isotropic contraction as would be the case if a sphere is shrinking. If we assume a negative horizontal stress what would the stress be around a vertical hole in the ground? The radial stress on the surface of the hole would be zero so there would be a gradient on the radial stress from the surface and into the rock which is identical to a volumetric force. Volumetric forces cause adiabatic heat gradients which means the measured temperature in the bore hole is different from that in the rock deeper into the walls of the hole. In order to calculate this non heat conducting (adiabatic) heat gradient I need to know the potential function of the displacement of the atoms in the crystals. Since silicon dioxide is the dominant component of the crust I will focus on such crystals. There is a bore hole in Poland where the temperature is dropping with increasing depth. This would indicate a positive horizontal stress. It can not be explained with the dominant theory of heat conduction from the interiors of the earth. David On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:25 PM, R C Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy David, A brain teaser question. The answer is yes if you accept that expansion and contraction actually occurs depending on the materials of the cylinder. Mention of the cylinder being solid presents another teaser. Certain solids react to being stressed. Predictive science of materials is become the cutting edge technology whereas in the past we used empirical tests alone. LIke non-invasive quality control tests, predictive science is what the Russians face in discovering what is happening with their Soyuv space capsule re-entry problems. You may be working on that task so I wish you well. You may set up a testing method of proving that the stress caculated is indeed negative by building a sorta makeshift air comparison picnometer of a version used for density measurement of dry drilling mud. Fun stuff. Richard - Original Message - *From:* David Jonsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:36 PM *Subject:* [Vo]:Question regarding basic solid mechanics and one directional applied stress Hi If I put a wheight on a vertical cylinder it will be shortened and its radius will be somewhat increased. I wonder if the radial increase is considered a negative stress in radial direction? Is the stress tensor something like this? -a 0 0 T= 0 0 0 0 0 b Where a and b are positive values and the coordinates are cylindrical *ρ*, *φ*, *z* (ISO 31-11). David -- David Jonsson Sweden phone callto:+46703000370
Re: [Vo]:Question regarding basic solid mechanics and one directional applied stress
Howdy David, I don't know the answer. Are we discussing earth science and soil mechanics separate from solid mechanics? Nobody knows earth science except geologists and Al Gore and they know it all. Just ask one of them. Soil mechanics is a less than exact science and the approach you have toward examining the stresses based on temperature may lead you astray. Sound interesting. Some astute geologists at Houston Texas may have more information . You may try the University of Houston since they are near to the center of the geologists in the petro business. Years ago I was did some work on gas measurement in west Texas involving CO2 icing together with a witches brew of H2S. acid, etc. and down hole pressure exceeding 10k PSIG. Across Texas we find anomalies in down hole temperatures. Near surface temperatures may be 140 degrees F and drop as depth increases and suddlenly increase above 200 F. An interesting study was done on a well near Brazoria Texas. An exploratory well was drilled to a final depth of 19-20k feet deep with no success. Gosh awful pressures and problems with heat and salt water intrusion from nearby Gulf of Mexico.You may try to chase this report down at Mobil Oil. They seem to be having a problem with down hole temperature in the nation of Chad. Exxon has some production there. The Chinese are moving in where the bullets don't fly. Their biggest problem in production seems to be lightning and electric submersible pump motors in the oilwells. We looked at the problem from a lightning arrestor view and decided there was not a solution because of the soil. Strange and weird stuff. Richard David Jonsson wrote, This is a traditional basic question in solid mechanics and there is nothing special with it. I am interested in the earth crust and bore holes in it. Gravity is causing vertical stress on the crust but it is not obvious if the horizontal stress is positive or negative. One problem is if the crust can expand sideways and thus have a horizontal stress or if the geometry only allows isotropic contraction as would be the case if a sphere is shrinking. If we assume a negative horizontal stress what would the stress be around a vertical hole in the ground? The radial stress on the surface of the hole would be zero so there would be a gradient on the radial stress from the surface and into the rock which is identical to a volumetric force. Volumetric forces cause adiabatic heat gradients which means the measured temperature in the bore hole is different from that in the rock deeper into the walls of the hole. In order to calculate this non heat conducting (adiabatic) heat gradient I need to know the potential function of the displacement of the atoms in the crystals. Since silicon dioxide is the dominant component of the crust I will focus on such crystals. There is a bore hole in Poland where the temperature is dropping with increasing depth. This would indicate a positive horizontal stress. It can not be explained with the dominant theory of heat conduction from the interiors of the earth. David
Re: [Vo]:Re: Eye of the Gyre
Michel wrote: Back on topic, talking about unedible things, you don't happen to have Sir Branson's ear by any chance? Think he might be interested in this Bermuda based N.A. Gyre cultivation nonsense? Richard Branson's ear? If only... As far as the Sargasso seaweed cultivation goes isn't it just a larger, more elaborate version of the Planktos idea? It would be great if a full and proper environmental risk/benefit assessment was carried out in advance and gave it a clean bill of health. Sometimes schemes like this, designed to be a solution to one problem, can have deleterious effects that outweigh the benefits. In short, they can cause more problems than they solve.
[Vo]:Stationary Fresnel and the Pheonix Bar
There is a bar I frequent in Johnstown PA, the Pheonix.? In this bar they have two large mirrors that meet in a corner. They come together at 90 degrees.? No matter how I move about my image always appears at the place where the two mirrors meet.? I move left and right and there I am in the middle.? It makes my shoulders look really broad.? Its amazing.? I can't explain it. Perhaps if I could understant it better I could make a lenz that always concentrates light on the same point independent upon the light source's position. Still amazed.? Drinking does not clear the mystery up.? Frank Z
Re: [Vo]:Stationary Fresnel and the Pheonix Bar
The bar has a corner reflector, very old hat. Its interesting property is to reflect incident radiation back to it source, regrdless of the direction of incidence. In yout experience, you eye is effectively a source. Corner reflectors are standard equipment for sea survival, for it will appear extremely bright to any radar scans. It will refelct sunlight back the sun, not to a local collector. Mike Carrell - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:42 PM Subject: [Vo]:Stationary Fresnel and the Pheonix Bar There is a bar I frequent in Johnstown PA, the Pheonix. In this bar they have two large mirrors that meet in a corner. They come together at 90 degrees. No matter how I move about my image always appears at the place where the two mirrors meet. I move left and right and there I am in the middle. It makes my shoulders look really broad. Its amazing. I can't explain it. Perhaps if I could understant it better I could make a lenz that always concentrates light on the same point independent upon the light source's position. Still amazed. Drinking does not clear the mystery up. Frank Z -- Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. Department.
[Vo]:test
This is using my original email address which was rejected earlier. Norman Horwood
[Vo]:result!
The trouble seems to have sorted itself out!! Thanks Bill and Jed for your help. Norman
[Vo]:volunteers?
Are there any volunteers available to help me out with some clean up on some text of a few historical news stories and/or perhaps some transcriptions of some historical video/audio? Reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TIA, Steve
[Vo]:The Valone Matter
Vortexians: I'd like to get your opinions on the Valone matter. If you got caught cheating in a game of cards in the old west, you could expect to be shot. Tom said that there is a working Searle Machine and other SPFE machines in existence. AFAIK, this is not a truthful statement. He has been given the opportunity to produce or repent, he has chosen to ignore. IMHO, this reflects badly on every legitimate researcher in the field. Why he did this is known only to him, but I assume that he is trying to sell books or memberships. So the question is, should we be self policing, or just let Tom do what he wants to do? --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
