[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Torbjörn Hartman describes power measurments

2013-05-29 Thread Harry Veeder
Among cheeses, I believe Stilton has one of the highest energy densities. Harry On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 7:36 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The report included a couple of graphs on page 27. One was power out per their measurement, the other power in. The mere fact that the

Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory

2013-05-29 Thread David Roberson
OK Harry, perhaps I took his comment the wrong way. I value your ideas and hope that you keep spreading them my direction. There is no place on this list for personal insults. Dave -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent:

RE: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory

2013-05-29 Thread MarkI-ZeroPoint
Harry/Dave: Andrew is borderline pathological skeptic. when challenged by Dave to do a Spice model so they could compare them to see if they get the same results, and if not, why, what does Andrew do? He starts with the insults and name calling. Typical for a pathoskep who is called out on the

Re: [Vo]:Why scam???

2013-05-29 Thread Alain Sepeda
I won't bet a cent on papp engine, but unlike magnetic motors, if papp engine is working is is visibly a nuclear energy source, like LENR in hydride... question on papp, like LENR, is not whether it is allowed to exist, but whether it works. I'm fed up with people mixing nonconventional nuclear

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Alain Sepeda
to be clear the test is a blackbox test from the entry of the controller to the heat irradiated. The cable may be an exotic alien cable including pixie dust and antimatter hidden wires, and the test will be valid anyway... there are some people that don't understand what is a blackbox, and what

Re: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Mark Iverson markiver...@charter.netwrote: There have been more than 60,000 papers published on high-temperature superconductive material since its discovery in 1986, said Jak Chakhalian, professor of physics at the University of Arkansas. Unfortunately, as of

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 11:51 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: And JC is WELL aware of this, yet asks the question as to why they used 3-phase power in their tests… the second test was SINGLE phase

RE: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Charles Francis
Surely the control box is an integral part of the Rossi system under test? Why then insist on internal sub-system measurements? Why not analyse the Rossi system cleanly by just considering external inputs and outputs without regard to internals? After all, an engineer doesn't break open an unknown

Re: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread Peter Gluck
Both HTSC and CF were discovered before their time both are very different from what was thought in the moments of discovery and both need new tools, concepts and ideas in order to be understood.. For LENR I recommend you to watch very carefully and without prejudices what our colleague Axil says.

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 12:32 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: You left out the more important part of my posting: “And JC is WELL aware of this, yet asks the question as to why they used 3-phase

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:39 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Eric, I agree with what Mark is saying. You agree with him that 3-phase was not used in the March run when the paper says a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output. I never claimed

Re: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Both HTSC and CF were discovered before their time both are very different from what was thought in the moments of discovery and both need new tools, concepts and ideas in order to be understood.. The validity of the

Re: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread Peter Gluck
It was parallel thinking, I well know each field has its own characteristics and fate. Cold Fusion had the problem of reproducibility from the very start this is the real cause of its bad reputation. Theoretical weakness has just added to the problem- it seems to be so intellectual. I understand

[Vo]:The First Image Ever of a Hydrogen Atom's Orbital Structure

2013-05-29 Thread Charles Francis
http://io9.com/the-first-image-ever-of-a-hydrogen-atoms-orbital-struc-509684 901

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:46 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Then they have not considered the obvious. Unless there is fraud at the felony level, then Rossi has probably discovered something valid, and

Re: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread John Berry
Reproducibility is indeed the crux of most alt/fringe science technologies. Conventional science is not so willing to accept hard to reproduce effects as real, effects where not all of the requirements for reproducibility are known or readily controllable. This does not mean that these effects

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Vorl Bek
On Tue, 28 May 2013 16:46:34 -0700 Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: Thank you for being straightforward on both points. And now we definitively know that the cable itself is secret. Of course, that will not bother the majority of people here. Move along, nothing to see here. I thought

Re: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:49 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: But excess heat is certain in the 2011 series of experiments and this test of the Professors too. You mean *you* are certain. Others are not. To say something is certain should mean that certainty represents some kind

Re:[Vo]:PCE-830 manual and 3 phases measurement

2013-05-29 Thread Claudio C Fiorini
Rob wrote: It should read 3P3W mode (page 12) and not in 3P4W mode Yes indeed. But why are the tensions around 237 V and not around 400 V AC? They switched the instrument in 3P3W mode, but being incompetent (my opinion) they connected only two wires to the phases but one to the neutral. The

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: On Tue, 28 May 2013 16:46:34 -0700 Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: Thank you for being straightforward on both points. And now we definitively know that the cable itself is secret. Of course, that will not bother

Re: [Vo]:Perfect response to Gugliemi

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Randy Wuller rwul...@freeark.com wrote: Jed: His two questions can easily be answered. 1) Since the science community currently believes a positive result to be impossible (cold fusion is pseudoscience), such a result would change a potential misperception

Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
I think the analysis of the curve shapes is gross over-interpretation. First of all, it's not clear from the paper that the square wave at the input really represents a measurement, or an artist's conception. As far as I understand, it's taken from the video, but all they really say is what the

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread Claudio C Fiorini
Joshua Cude wrote: ...I'm almost certain they were using 3-phase power on the input to the box. They write: a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output. And it's on the input that the power measurement is made, and so that's where it's relevant. That also forces a

Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory

2013-05-29 Thread Terry Blanton
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 2:18 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Harry/Dave: Andrew is borderline pathological skeptic… when challenged by Dave to do a Spice model so they could compare them to see if they get the same results, and if not, why, what does Andrew do? He starts

Re: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread Alain Sepeda
that point merit some correction http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?815-Celani-discovery-of-High-Temp-Superconduction-rejectedhttp://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?815-Celani-discovery-of-High-Temp-Superconduction-rejectedhighlight=celani+superconduction Celani found HTSC as an anomaly,

Re: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: that point merit some correction

[Vo]:look how nice my book flips now, I love Amazon

2013-05-29 Thread fznidarsic
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Cold-Fusion-Antigravity-Znidarsic/dp/1480270237/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=apsie=UTF8qid=1369831335sr=1-1-catcorrkeywords=%22znidarsic+science+books%22 this is fun Frank Znidarsic

Re: [Vo]:Perfect response to Gugliemi

2013-05-29 Thread Ransom Wuller
Cude: Why do you bother to respond when you post replies like that. The result of the paper is different than the paper? Come now, the result of the paper is a component of the paper, as a component, if it advances knowledge, then the whole advances knowledge. Didn't you take logic in your

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-29 Thread Joshua Cude
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** Oh, and I haven't seen any links to videos. Any chance you could post them again? Is this cheese power, perchance? If so, I've seen them, and I have

Re: [Vo]:look how nice my book flips now, I love Amazon

2013-05-29 Thread Craig
Frank, is there an electronic version of your book? I clicked on your link below thinking that I could buy a version for my Kindle, but it only seems to be in paper. Craig On 05/29/2013 08:45 AM, fznidar...@aol.com wrote:

Re:[Vo]:PCE-830 manual and 3 phases measurement

2013-05-29 Thread Harvey Norris
Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/ --- On Wed, 5/29/13, Claudio C Fiorini claudio.c.fior...@gmail.com wrote: From: Claudio C Fiorini claudio.c.fior...@gmail.com Subject: Re:[Vo]:PCE-830 manual and 3 phases measurement To:

[Vo]:spooky action through time -on fractional molecules?

2013-05-29 Thread Roarty, Francis X
Axil's citation does support a 4d perspective of time sharing a spatial axis. We sort of see this in the paradox twin where both twins exist at a different angle between time and space and neither is locally aware of any differences in either axis until they return to the same frame and compare

[Vo]:Re: look how nice my book flips now, I love Amazon

2013-05-29 Thread fznidarsic
Ed, Why does your book not flip? -Original Message- From: fznidarsic fznidar...@aol.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 8:45 am Subject: look how nice my book flips now, I love Amazon

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
Andrew wrote: *And now we definitively know that the cable itself is secret.* ** Of course, that will not bother the majority of people here. Move along, nothing to see here. Obviously I mean the waveform is secret. Not the physical cable itself. Levi et al. made this clear.

Re: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread Alain Sepeda
maye be they could change their position because a board of physicist did not publish a Fatwa claiming tha HTSC was pseudo-science and crook job, and because it was easier to reproduce... the pattern of thing that are accepted are qite clear : - fact should be so huge that it is stupid to deny -

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
Vorl Bek wrote: Whether or not they have ruled it out, nobody in his right mind would let this single test convert him to a belief in lenr. Perhaps. But anyone in his right mind who looks at all of the experimental evidence for LENR will be convinced. As Mallove wrote in 1991: . . . to

Re: [Vo]:PCE-830 manual and 3 phases measurement

2013-05-29 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, Last night I've been breaking my brain on this matter as well and I think I know what possibly maybe going on. On 29-5-2013 13:19, Claudio C Fiorini wrote: Yes indeed. But why are the tensions around 237 V and not around 400 V AC? They switched the instrument in 3P3W mode, but being

RE: [Vo]:More delusional scientists, and over 60,000 publications!

2013-05-29 Thread DJ Cravens
Does this means that they should not accept the Higgs boson work until it is duplicated by entirely independent researchers (ones that have never worked at CERN or with anyone who has worked there) at a second independent lab? Or to accept it until it is seen in close to 100% of the shots?

[Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Bob Higgins
I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. - We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. - When the test

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
I wrote: But anyone in his right mind who looks at all of the experimental evidence for LENR will be convinced. I mean the totality of the evidence, as Mallove called it. People such as Cude deny that there is such a thing as a totality of evidence. They do not believe in the concept of

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread Berke Durak
In fact I said the 3-phase input to the box was particularly unnecessary *because* only single-phase was used for the box. There are legitimate reasons to prefer 3-phase input. If the output of the control box is a pulse width-modulated DC signal, then you need a high-power DC source. There

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, On 29-5-2013 16:29, Bob Higgins wrote: Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. What if this wire is wound in a coil shape? I believe the cylindrical outer heaters

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, On 29-5-2013 16:47, Berke Durak wrote: Using three phases you can get DC with decent ripple using only a handful of diodes. The power never goes to zero, whereas it would go to zero 100 times a second if you were using a full-wave rectifier with single-phase input. If the peak power

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Axil Axil
*The powder is still the active agent of the reaction. In the December test, the powder was concentrated in two places. This concentration produced hot spots, uneven distribution of heat who control was difficult leading to a meltdown.* * * * * *If the active agent were produced on the inside

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Bob Higgins
I believe the cylindrical outer heaters are just resistor coils embedded in a high thermal conductivity ceramic. I suspect that Andrea has at TWO sides of the power triangle more or less regular resistors connected and between the phases at the third side a resistor coil for a very

Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...

2013-05-29 Thread Edmund Storms
Harry, you need to examine the situation as a chemical problem. The protons are normally in the metal lattice as H+ ions. These would go into the gap ONLY if Gibbs energy were created. In other words, the protons MUST be in a lower energy state in the gap compared to the lattice for them

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, On 29-5-2013 17:11, Bob Higgins wrote: I think his reaction is being stimulated by heat (perhaps cycled heating). That's were the two more or less regular resistors play their role to heat up the system, while the third coil is responsible for the oscillation. Kind regards, Rob

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, What if the vessel is acting as a kind of capacitor and in conjunction with the coil creates the ideal oscillation circuit? Kind regards, Rob

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Alain Sepeda
I see that behavior on conspiracy sites... 9/11 for example... but in many extremist opponents... in facts Nassim Nicholas Taleb explain tha in real life, increasing the volume of details, reduce the capacity to take the good decision. big picture is often raising the best vision... I recognize

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Axil Axil
*Are you saying that the oscillations set up in the mouse (outer cylinder) induces oscillations inside the cat (inner cylinder)?* * * *The mouse pulls the cats tail?* On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Rob Dingemans manonbrid...@aim.comwrote: Hi, What if the vessel is acting as a kind of

Re: [Vo]:Perfect response to Gugliemi

2013-05-29 Thread Randy wuller
Joshua: Your initial response was to my reply to Guglielmi's claim of an ethical violation because the paper wouldn't advance knowledge. You have now come full circle. You said he was talking about the paper not the results. Now all you are saying is that the methodology used by the testers

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, On 29-5-2013 17:24, Axil Axil wrote: *Are you saying that the oscillations set up in the mouse (outer cylinder) induces oscillations inside the cat (inner cylinder)?* ** *The mouse pulls the cats tail?* On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Rob Dingemans manonbrid...@aim.com

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread David Roberson
You make a good point. Three phase rectification and filtering is far easier than single phase and that might be his reasoning. I suspect that sooner or later he will begin using power factor correction electronics to get the present relatively poor value of .5 up to standards. The present

RE: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread MarkI-ZeroPoint
Morning Vorts, Can I have a little time to look into it? I do have a life and other responsibilities which consume a lot of time. If indeed both tests used 3ph power INTO the control box, then I have no problem with acknowledging the error! I will reread the report later today. -mark

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Edmund Storms
Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the

Re: [Vo]:Perfect response to Gugliemi

2013-05-29 Thread Alain Sepeda
It seems tha the scientific community have not slipped, but is in normal science mode, as Thomas Kuhn explain... if you cannot integrate the fact in the know paradigm, adjust a detail keeping the main paradigm, then last alternative is denying facts... when facts cannot be ignored, because you no

[Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread DJ Cravens
He doesn't have to have constant stable sites. Perhaps instead it is a constant creation of sites. For example (there must be many), he could be creating and then creating sites with something like Nickel carbonyl that would could create sites and the CO then be allowed to react again.

Re: [Vo]:Perfect response to Gugliemi

2013-05-29 Thread Kevin O'Malley
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Well said. Go post that on the website. Why not? ***I tried posting 2 comments along the same vein. They have not been released. In fact, it looks like no comments have been released for more than a day.

RE: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread MarkI-ZeroPoint
Ok, wanted to correct any errors on my part as soon as possible so I did a quick search and this is where I got the impression of single-phase: pg 15 The E-Cat HT2's power supply departs from that of the device used in December in that it is no longer three-phase, but *single-phase*: the

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Vorl Bek
On Wed, 29 May 2013 09:49:26 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Vorl Bek wrote: Whether or not they have ruled it out, nobody in his right mind would let this single test convert him to a belief in lenr. Perhaps. But anyone in his right mind who looks at all of the

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Edmund Storms
Dennis, I do not believe a process of continuous creation and destruction of sites would be stable and would result in stable production of energy, The creation and destruction processes are independent of each other. Just by chance, one would get the upper hand over the other, resulting

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Axil Axil
This is the dynamic NAE theory where ideally NAEs are formed and destroyed at a constant rate. But the Dynamic NAEs are centered on the nickel powder as a nucleating site. The Nickel powder must be evenly distributed to keep the heat production balanced. This is important, because this heat is

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread torulf.greek
If there is carbonyl nickel inside the hot-cat, a leakage will be extremely dangerous. Tetra carbonyl nickel is known as liquid death. . On Wed, 29 May 2013 10:19:03 -0600, DJ Cravens wrote: He doesn't have to have constant stable sites. Perhaps instead it is a constant

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test - 300Hz ripple

2013-05-29 Thread David L Babcock
I see a circuit that generates DC with 300 Hz ripple. Good idea, ripple is so small that many DC loads would need no capacitors at all. Be interesting to know the wt/power ratio, compared to the usual single phase and three phase cases. Ol' Bab On 5/29/2013 11:05 AM, Rob Dingemans wrote:

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Alan Fletcher
From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:29:30 AM I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. The Penon report (Aug 2012 -- the first hotcat radiative test)

Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Alan Fletcher
From: Rob Dingemans manonbrid...@aim.com Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:19:03 AM What if the vessel is acting as a kind of capacitor and in conjunction with the coil creates the ideal oscillation circuit? That's just like the (Biblical) Arc of the Covenant. A wood (cedar) insulator, with

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: A lot of intelligent people at wavewatching and elsewhere, don't seem to be impressed with the experimental evidence. None of these people has published a paper describing technical objections to any experiment. They have no rational reason to doubt

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread Eric Walker
Lol. That's a little bit redonculous. Far more likely: neither he nor I have read the paper closely enough. Eric On May 29, 2013, at 2:02, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: I think Mark was mistaken about this, and his failure to acknowledge it suggests he is deliberately trying to

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Axil Axil
Cude said: And I think you use the term conspiracy theory incorrectly. In the case of the ecat, it's really a just run-of-the-mill deception on the scale of John Ernst Worrell Keely (whose lab was full of concealed tricks) or Papp or Stoern or Madison Priest (who ran a secret cable across a

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Eric Walker
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:38 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: I disagree. The implications of cold fusion are what got the world in a tizzy in 1989. Everyone, including many (if not most) scientists were prepared to embrace cold fusion *because* of the implications. Thousands of

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, On 29-5-2013 17:22, Alain Sepeda wrote: in facts Nassim Nicholas Taleb explain tha in real life, increasing the volume of details, reduce the capacity to take the good decision. big picture is often raising the best vision... I recognize tha pathoskeptics have also their big picture, with

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Harry Veeder
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I wrote: But anyone in his right mind who looks at all of the experimental evidence for LENR will be convinced. I mean the totality of the evidence, as Mallove called it. People such as Cude deny that there is

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Eric Walker
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:38 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: That's not the opinion of the majority of observers of the case. Deception on this scale -- frauds and scams -- are utterly common. Scientific revolutions like this are very rare, especially from someone like Rossi.

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Roarty, Francis X
Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
Eric Walker wrote: Most scientists, I expect, believe that a completely unequivocal demonstration of claims of Rossi's magnitude would be a trivial thing to stage, and would bear no resemblance to the farce that we are seeing. If there is any point of unanimity here (and there

[Vo]:Fwd: look how nice my book flips now, I love Amazon

2013-05-29 Thread fznidarsic
Subject: Re: look how nice my book flips now, I love Amazon I have all versions linked below, however, I checked the image and now it stopped spinning. It only flips just like Ed's. Cheated again!

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Eric Walker
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:38 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: First, the fact that this *source* of energy thousands of times more dense than chemical has to be plugged in (to a high power line, no less) will turn most observers away. Fine, so most observers will be turned away by

[Vo]:MODERATOR: andrewppp removed

2013-05-29 Thread William Beaty
multiple violations of rule 2. (I suspect that he didn't read the rules before subscribing.) (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Edmund Storms
Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: First, the fact that this *source* of energy thousands of times more dense than chemical has to be plugged in (to a high power line, no less) will turn most observers away. Fine, so most observers will be turned away by this. From an engineering

RE: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-29 Thread MarkI-ZeroPoint
Eric/JC: I've read the report twice fully, and a few other times only to verify a specific statement. I still did not catch the significance that it was the output of the control box that was changed from 3ph to 1ph, not the input side. I posted as soon as I could to correct my error. Josh: I

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Arnaud Kodeck
Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re:

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Axil Axil
If the reactor is entangled globally as indicated in nanoplasmonic theory, heat transfer would be isothermal based on super fluidic heat transfer. The hydrogen would be the same temperature as the powder. and so would the walls of the inner reactor tube. The secret sauce may be used to produce

Re: [Vo]:MODERATOR: andrewppp removed

2013-05-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: multiple violations of rule 2. (I suspect that he didn't read the rules before subscribing.) Whoa! That seems precipitous. He did not seem so bad to me. Rule 2. NO SNEERING. Ridicule, derision, scoffing, and ad-hominem is banned. Debunking or

Re: [Vo]:MODERATOR: andrewppp removed

2013-05-29 Thread leaking pen
I had to go through the past few threads that I honestly wasn't following to see what was meant. Yeah... I wouldn't have tolerated him as long as Bill did. It seemed he lived to say, Oh Really? On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: William Beaty

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Roarty, Francis X
Ed, Is sintering necessarily bad? Could the sintering have also occurred to a lesser scale on the earlier ecat and actually be part of the NAE formation? Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Axil Axil
EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
If the powder sinters, I suppose: That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
I wrote: That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. I mean the Double Structured (DS) cathodes. Those things were crammed full of Pd black, according to McKubre. I think he said that. Cramming them full ensured

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Edmund Storms
Fran, I have heated Ni many times and did not observe the sintering to produce LENR. It only creats a brick of material. Sintering can be prevented if the surface is partly oxidized or covered with a compound. I suspect Rossi has created a compound containing NI on the surface that forms

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Axil Axil
In the Arata experiment, when the powder melted, the reaction stopped. In dynamic NAE creation, when the NAE is destroyed, new NAEs take its place and the cycle is constant. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I wrote: That's bad because it reduces

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Edmund Storms
Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very

RE: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-29 Thread Jones Beene
From: Joshua Cude First, the fact that this *source* of energy thousands of times more dense than chemical has to be plugged in (to a high power line, no less) will turn most observers away. Not necessarily “most” - only those observers whose ability to deduce and extrapolate from

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Edmund Storms
Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Arnaud Kodeck
The EM stimulation may not need to be at a high frequency level. That could be superwave as discussed here http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html. You say that the Ni/H reaction has shown no need of EM

Re: [Vo]:MODERATOR: andrewppp removed

2013-05-29 Thread Eric Walker
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps you can invite him back after a bit? Also maybe Abd? I miss him. I miss Abd too. I wish he would not post walls of text. But he always has good counterarguments to make to rain on one's parade. This is a

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Axil Axil
You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Axil, you

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Edmund Storms
Amaud, I have no doubt EM stimulation will enhance the LENR reaction. The only question is whether Rossi is successfully applying such stimulation. Based on the design of the hot-e-Cat, I do not see any indication of EM being applied. The suggestion hat it is being created in the black

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread MarkI-ZeroPoint
Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. *Why such a large cylinder?* - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. -mark From: Jed

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat

2013-05-29 Thread Edmund Storms
On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous

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