Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[Axil Axil]

Mats Lewan is said to have seen the QX produce deep blue color when running
at 100%. Even at 30%, the QX produces light at between 400 to 500 nm that I
saw recorded with my own eyes recorded on the spectrograph as seen in the
video. I don't beleive the info on light production that is
coming from Rossi. That info might be self serving. Rossi might be  seeing
what he wants to see. Rossi says that the light produced was measured at
1100nm. This is infrared light and is not even visible. How can Rossi get a
valid blackbody heat reading when the QX is running at 30% power level?
Those people at the Demo should have reacted to this discontinuity in logic
during the demo in real time.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:08 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Higgins—
>
>
>
> I agree with your comment about a high voltage (short) at the beginning of
> the reaction in the QX reactor.  It is consistent with the flash of light
> which can be seen at the end of the reactor upon the initial power
> application.
>
>
>
> Your assessment does not address the source of energy during the off
> phases of the control circuit.  I would argue that the reaction producing
> heat is occurring in the Ni electrode with the Li acting as a good
> convective heat transfer agent from the electrode to the outer
> circumference  of the reactor where the water cooling occurs.
>
>
>
> The electric current is generated by the net positive charge  that results
> from the reaction that produces energetic alphas that cross the annular
> space where the dusty plasma exists and charge the outer surface of the
> reactor.
>
>
>
> I disagree with Axil that the suncell hydrino reaction is like the QX
> reaction.  The spectra of the two reactions are not reported to be alike.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Axil Axil 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2017 10:50:23 AM
> *To:* vortex-l
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio
>
> The QX is a downsized version of the SunCell with the plasma ball reduced
> to the size of a speck of dust. You can understand what is happening inside
> the QX by looking at what is happening inside the SunCell. The metal used
> in the QX is aluminum whereas the metal used to support the plasma inside
> the SunCell is silver.Lithium is not a reactant and remains in the vapor
> form. The hydrogen pressure is very high because the amount of solid fuel
> that is placed inside the QX must be substantial in order for the fuel
> loading to be manageable. Rossi cannot work with(load) nanograms of fuel
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Bob Higgins 
> wrote:
>
>> In the experiments I am aware of, waveforms were only tried as applied to
>> the heater coils (or in my case to a magnetic field coil).  There was no
>> evidence of enhanced XH.  This could be because the waveform was not well
>> "coupled" to the active medium.  These were heat driven Parkhomov-like
>> experiments.  In the case of others that have seen benefit from such waves,
>> the stimulus was applied more directly to the reaction medium -
>> electrolysis or to the hydrogenated wires.   I believe there could be
>> benefit in such stimuli, but it would have to be appropriately coupled to
>> the reaction.
>>
>> In a conversation I was having with MFMP folks, I had this to say about
>> what I thought was described for the QX reactor and power supply:
>>
>>
>> *Since it has been suggested/said that Li is present inside the QX,
>> during a discharge it will be in gas phase; and when it is turned OFF, it
>> will condense on the inside of the tube and conduct across the electrodes.
>> Then, upon re-start, the tube will be shorted with this condensed Li metal
>> path and a high current will be needed to heat the Li to boiling.  Once the
>> Li path evaporates, the tube will have to be run in gas discharge mode.  So
>> initially the tube is a short and needs a high current, low voltage to
>> begin, and then it has to switch into gas discharge mode which is low
>> current high voltage.  Also, in the gas discharge mode, the supply will
>> have to be ballasted as a current source.  This is why the supply is
>> complex, the waveform is complex, and why it is also difficult to
>> characterize what energy has been supplied over time to the tube.  There is
>> the claim that there is balanced electron/ion flow.  That would be the H+ &
>> Li+ positive ions and e- negative electrons conducting bodies. *
>>
>> *In a plasma tube, the plasma itself can be at 2700K while the glass
>> itself can be kept cool with water cooling.  The heat is transferred by the
>> plasma atoms striking the glass, and there will be a cooler gas buffer zone
>> around the inside of the glass where it is too cool to be in plasma state -
>> insulating the core plasma discharge.  The higher the gas pressure, the
>> more power that must be added to the plasma to compensate for the 

RE: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Higgins—

I agree with your comment about a high voltage (short) at the beginning of the 
reaction in the QX reactor.  It is consistent with the flash of light which can 
be seen at the end of the reactor upon the initial power application.

Your assessment does not address the source of energy during the off phases of 
the control circuit.  I would argue that the reaction producing heat is 
occurring in the Ni electrode with the Li acting as a good convective heat 
transfer agent from the electrode to the outer circumference  of the reactor 
where the water cooling occurs.

The electric current is generated by the net positive charge  that results from 
the reaction that produces energetic alphas that cross the annular space where 
the dusty plasma exists and charge the outer surface of the reactor.

I disagree with Axil that the suncell hydrino reaction is like the QX reaction. 
 The spectra of the two reactions are not reported to be alike.

Bob Cook
.




From: Axil Axil 
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 10:50:23 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

The QX is a downsized version of the SunCell with the plasma ball reduced to 
the size of a speck of dust. You can understand what is happening inside the QX 
by looking at what is happening inside the SunCell. The metal used in the QX is 
aluminum whereas the metal used to support the plasma inside the SunCell is 
silver.Lithium is not a reactant and remains in the vapor form. The hydrogen 
pressure is very high because the amount of solid fuel that is placed inside 
the QX must be substantial in order for the fuel loading to be manageable. 
Rossi cannot work with(load) nanograms of fuel

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Bob Higgins 
> wrote:
In the experiments I am aware of, waveforms were only tried as applied to the 
heater coils (or in my case to a magnetic field coil).  There was no evidence 
of enhanced XH.  This could be because the waveform was not well "coupled" to 
the active medium.  These were heat driven Parkhomov-like experiments.  In the 
case of others that have seen benefit from such waves, the stimulus was applied 
more directly to the reaction medium - electrolysis or to the hydrogenated 
wires.   I believe there could be benefit in such stimuli, but it would have to 
be appropriately coupled to the reaction.

In a conversation I was having with MFMP folks, I had this to say about what I 
thought was described for the QX reactor and power supply:

Since it has been suggested/said that Li is present inside the QX, during a 
discharge it will be in gas phase; and when it is turned OFF, it will condense 
on the inside of the tube and conduct across the electrodes.  Then, upon 
re-start, the tube will be shorted with this condensed Li metal path and a high 
current will be needed to heat the Li to boiling.  Once the Li path evaporates, 
the tube will have to be run in gas discharge mode.  So initially the tube is a 
short and needs a high current, low voltage to begin, and then it has to switch 
into gas discharge mode which is low current high voltage.  Also, in the gas 
discharge mode, the supply will have to be ballasted as a current source.  This 
is why the supply is complex, the waveform is complex, and why it is also 
difficult to characterize what energy has been supplied over time to the tube.  
There is the claim that there is balanced electron/ion flow.  That would be the 
H+ & Li+ positive ions and e- negative electrons conducting bodies.

In a plasma tube, the plasma itself can be at 2700K while the glass itself can 
be kept cool with water cooling.  The heat is transferred by the plasma atoms 
striking the glass, and there will be a cooler gas buffer zone around the 
inside of the glass where it is too cool to be in plasma state - insulating the 
core plasma discharge.  The higher the gas pressure, the more power that must 
be added to the plasma to compensate for the cooling of the glass tube on the 
plasma.  This tells me that the gas pressure inside the QX is probably pretty 
low, probably under 50 torr, and maybe more like 10 torr.  The problem you 
would have is keeping the Li from condensing on the glass tube in that cool 
zone and shorting out the plasma discharge.  It may take care of itself - as 
the lithium condenses on the glass, the plasma will go to it instead of the 
electrodes causing the Li to re-boil (sort of like an arc discharging to a 
piece of metal wire brought into the gap between a spark discharge).

Rossi has not demonstrated that his tube produces XE to any of us.  We 
basically have to take the unreliable, untrustworthy word of a technically 
incompetent scoundrel that he is producing any XE - and on a waveform that 
would be very difficult to characterize by someone that is technically sound.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:31 AM, JonesBeene 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[Axil Axil]

Andrea Rossi
November 29, 2017 at 4:32 PM


Italo R.:
Several days after the Stockholm demo we made a very important agreement,
that will make faster the start of a massive industrial production. These
few days have been momentous.
Warm regards,
A.R.

Andrea Rossi
November 30, 2017 at 2:01 AM


Daniel G.Zavela:
Thank you for your kind attention.
During the test at the IVA I put the power at 30% to put the probability of
breaks at zero point. The product will perform better, also because now we
are focusing on the industrialization and this means also eliminate the
overheating problem. We are working along two lines: 1- industrialization
of the product, 2- industrialization of the production. These two processes
normally are completed up to 10 years ( the CEO of a car industry told me
up to 20 years), but we think it will take less than 2 years in our case. I
hope one year, but it will be rude.
The charge was standard.
Warm Regards,
A.R.


On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> Rossi knows how to feed gadflies
>
>
>
> *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2017 7:14 PM
> *To:* vortex-l
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio
>
>
>
> Rossi has always used demos to drum up investor interest. Rossi is at a
> pause point in the engineering of the QX and is desirous of a manufacturing
> deal.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Adrian Ashfield 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> the demo served no net purpose
>
>
>1. Andrea Rossi
>
> November 29, 2017 at 4:32 PM
> 
>
> Italo R.:
> Several days after the Stockholm demo we made a very important agreement,
> that will make faster the start of a massive industrial production. These
> few days have been momentous.
> Warm regards,
> A.R.
>
> On the lenrforum, moderator Alan Smith said he talked to seven investors,
> some existing.
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[Russ George]

Rossi knows how to feed gadflies

 

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 7:14 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

 

Rossi has always used demos to drum up investor interest. Rossi is at a pause 
point in the engineering of the QX and is desirous of a manufacturing deal.

 

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Adrian Ashfield  > wrote:

 

the demo served no net purpose 

1.  Andrea Rossi 

November 29, 2017 at 4:32 PM 
  

Italo R.:
Several days after the Stockholm demo we made a very important agreement, that 
will make faster the start of a massive industrial production. These few days 
have been momentous.
Warm regards,
A.R.

On the lenrforum, moderator Alan Smith said he talked to seven investors, some 
existing.

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[Axil Axil]

Rossi has always used demos to drum up investor interest. Rossi is at a
pause point in the engineering of the QX and is desirous of a manufacturing
deal.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Adrian Ashfield 
wrote:

>
> the demo served no net purpose
>
>
>1. Andrea Rossi
>November 29, 2017 at 4:32 PM
>
> 
>Italo R.:
>Several days after the Stockholm demo we made a very important
>agreement, that will make faster the start of a massive industrial
>production. These few days have been momentous.
>Warm regards,
>A.R.
>
> On the lenrforum, moderator Alan Smith said he talked to seven investors,
> some existing.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[Adrian Ashfield]

 


 the demo served no net purpose 

 


Andrea Rossi

November 29, 2017 at 4:32 PM


Italo R.:
Several days after the Stockholm demo we made a very important agreement, that 
will make faster the start of a massive industrial production. These few days 
have been momentous.
Warm regards,
A.R.


On the lenrforum, moderator Alan Smith said he talked to seven investors, some 
existing.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[Axil Axil]

The QX is a downsized version of the SunCell with the plasma ball reduced
to the size of a speck of dust. You can understand what is happening inside
the QX by looking at what is happening inside the SunCell. The metal used
in the QX is aluminum whereas the metal used to support the plasma inside
the SunCell is silver.Lithium is not a reactant and remains in the vapor
form. The hydrogen pressure is very high because the amount of solid fuel
that is placed inside the QX must be substantial in order for the fuel
loading to be manageable. Rossi cannot work with(load) nanograms of fuel

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

> In the experiments I am aware of, waveforms were only tried as applied to
> the heater coils (or in my case to a magnetic field coil).  There was no
> evidence of enhanced XH.  This could be because the waveform was not well
> "coupled" to the active medium.  These were heat driven Parkhomov-like
> experiments.  In the case of others that have seen benefit from such waves,
> the stimulus was applied more directly to the reaction medium -
> electrolysis or to the hydrogenated wires.   I believe there could be
> benefit in such stimuli, but it would have to be appropriately coupled to
> the reaction.
>
> In a conversation I was having with MFMP folks, I had this to say about
> what I thought was described for the QX reactor and power supply:
>
>
> *Since it has been suggested/said that Li is present inside the QX, during
> a discharge it will be in gas phase; and when it is turned OFF, it will
> condense on the inside of the tube and conduct across the electrodes.
> Then, upon re-start, the tube will be shorted with this condensed Li metal
> path and a high current will be needed to heat the Li to boiling.  Once the
> Li path evaporates, the tube will have to be run in gas discharge mode.  So
> initially the tube is a short and needs a high current, low voltage to
> begin, and then it has to switch into gas discharge mode which is low
> current high voltage.  Also, in the gas discharge mode, the supply will
> have to be ballasted as a current source.  This is why the supply is
> complex, the waveform is complex, and why it is also difficult to
> characterize what energy has been supplied over time to the tube.  There is
> the claim that there is balanced electron/ion flow.  That would be the H+ &
> Li+ positive ions and e- negative electrons conducting bodies.*
>
> * In a plasma tube, the plasma itself can be at 2700K while the glass
> itself can be kept cool with water cooling.  The heat is transferred by the
> plasma atoms striking the glass, and there will be a cooler gas buffer zone
> around the inside of the glass where it is too cool to be in plasma state -
> insulating the core plasma discharge.  The higher the gas pressure, the
> more power that must be added to the plasma to compensate for the cooling
> of the glass tube on the plasma.  This tells me that the gas pressure
> inside the QX is probably pretty low, probably under 50 torr, and maybe
> more like 10 torr.  The problem you would have is keeping the Li from
> condensing on the glass tube in that cool zone and shorting out the plasma
> discharge.  It may take care of itself - as the lithium condenses on the
> glass, the plasma will go to it instead of the electrodes causing the Li to
> re-boil (sort of like an arc discharging to a piece of metal wire brought
> into the gap between a spark discharge).*
>
> * Rossi has not demonstrated that his tube produces XE to any of us.  We
> basically have to take the unreliable, untrustworthy word of a technically
> incompetent scoundrel that he is producing any XE - and on a waveform that
> would be very difficult to characterize by someone that is technically
> sound.*
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:31 AM, JonesBeene  wrote:
>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you (or MFMP) experimented with any variation of the Dardik
>> superwave?
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it is more than coincidence that Rossi, Brillouin, Kimmel,
>> Energetics etc, etc have employed interfering waveforms as the input power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even if Rossi’s recent effort was a null result, it is true that his PS
>> seems unusually lossy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sadly, that is the most hopeful thing that anyone can honestly say about
>> it….
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Bob Higgins 
>>
>>
>>
>>- the demo served no net purpose - except possibly to those there
>>that were granted greater access to the data.  You and I should take it as
>>a presumed null experiment since there was inadequate data shared to show
>>any XE.
>>
>>
>>
>> JonesBeene wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>- The most important Euro Patent from Dardik, El-Boher et al entitled
>>"Pulsed low energy nuclear reaction power generators" EP 1656678 B1 with a
>>grant date of 2004. This is also known as the "superwave" patent. It is
>>similar and precedes the Brillouin IP - and will 

RE: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[JonesBeene]

BTW here is another datum in the quest for provable LENR using superwaves, and 
it is a GRANTED US patent which cites the Dardik patent

https://encrypted.google.com/patents/US9540960

Nicolas Chauvin inventor. Low energy nuclear thermoelectric system  - Abstract
A low energy nuclear thermoelectric system for a vehicle which provides a 
cost-effective and sustainable means of transportation for long operation range 
with zero emission using an onboard low energy nuclear reaction thermal 
generator.

The USPTO is so unfriendly with anything which mentions LENR by name that 
getting this one granted is almost a miracle in itself.



Bob… Have you (or MFMP) experimented with any variation of the Dardik superwave?

I think it is more than coincidence that Rossi, Brillouin, Kimmel, Energetics 
etc, etc have employed interfering waveforms as the input power.

Even if Rossi’s recent effort was a null result, it is true that his PS seems 
unusually lossy. 

Sadly, that is the most hopeful thing that anyone can honestly say about it….


From: Bob Higgins

➢ the demo served no net purpose - except possibly to those there that were 
granted greater access to the data.  You and I should take it as a presumed 
null experiment since there was inadequate data shared to show any XE.

JonesBeene wrote:

➢ The most important Euro Patent from Dardik, El-Boher et al entitled "Pulsed 
low energy nuclear reaction power generators" EP 1656678 B1 with a grant date 
of 2004. This is also known as the "superwave" patent. It is similar and 
precedes the Brillouin IP - and will also rain on the Godes parade, if it turns 
out that structured waveforms are the key to success.
 

[Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[Bob Higgins]

In the experiments I am aware of, waveforms were only tried as applied to
the heater coils (or in my case to a magnetic field coil).  There was no
evidence of enhanced XH.  This could be because the waveform was not well
"coupled" to the active medium.  These were heat driven Parkhomov-like
experiments.  In the case of others that have seen benefit from such waves,
the stimulus was applied more directly to the reaction medium -
electrolysis or to the hydrogenated wires.   I believe there could be
benefit in such stimuli, but it would have to be appropriately coupled to
the reaction.

In a conversation I was having with MFMP folks, I had this to say about
what I thought was described for the QX reactor and power supply:


*Since it has been suggested/said that Li is present inside the QX, during
a discharge it will be in gas phase; and when it is turned OFF, it will
condense on the inside of the tube and conduct across the electrodes.
Then, upon re-start, the tube will be shorted with this condensed Li metal
path and a high current will be needed to heat the Li to boiling.  Once the
Li path evaporates, the tube will have to be run in gas discharge mode.  So
initially the tube is a short and needs a high current, low voltage to
begin, and then it has to switch into gas discharge mode which is low
current high voltage.  Also, in the gas discharge mode, the supply will
have to be ballasted as a current source.  This is why the supply is
complex, the waveform is complex, and why it is also difficult to
characterize what energy has been supplied over time to the tube.  There is
the claim that there is balanced electron/ion flow.  That would be the H+ &
Li+ positive ions and e- negative electrons conducting bodies.*

* In a plasma tube, the plasma itself can be at 2700K while the glass
itself can be kept cool with water cooling.  The heat is transferred by the
plasma atoms striking the glass, and there will be a cooler gas buffer zone
around the inside of the glass where it is too cool to be in plasma state -
insulating the core plasma discharge.  The higher the gas pressure, the
more power that must be added to the plasma to compensate for the cooling
of the glass tube on the plasma.  This tells me that the gas pressure
inside the QX is probably pretty low, probably under 50 torr, and maybe
more like 10 torr.  The problem you would have is keeping the Li from
condensing on the glass tube in that cool zone and shorting out the plasma
discharge.  It may take care of itself - as the lithium condenses on the
glass, the plasma will go to it instead of the electrodes causing the Li to
re-boil (sort of like an arc discharging to a piece of metal wire brought
into the gap between a spark discharge).*

* Rossi has not demonstrated that his tube produces XE to any of us.  We
basically have to take the unreliable, untrustworthy word of a technically
incompetent scoundrel that he is producing any XE - and on a waveform that
would be very difficult to characterize by someone that is technically
sound.*

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:31 AM, JonesBeene  wrote:

> Bob
>
>
>
> Have you (or MFMP) experimented with any variation of the Dardik superwave?
>
>
>
> I think it is more than coincidence that Rossi, Brillouin, Kimmel,
> Energetics etc, etc have employed interfering waveforms as the input power.
>
>
>
> Even if Rossi’s recent effort was a null result, it is true that his PS
> seems unusually lossy.
>
>
>
> Sadly, that is the most hopeful thing that anyone can honestly say about
> it….
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Bob Higgins 
>
>
>
>- the demo served no net purpose - except possibly to those there that
>were granted greater access to the data.  You and I should take it as a
>presumed null experiment since there was inadequate data shared to show any
>XE.
>
>
>
> JonesBeene wrote:
>
>
>
>
>- The most important Euro Patent from Dardik, El-Boher et al entitled
>"Pulsed low energy nuclear reaction power generators" EP 1656678 B1 with a
>grant date of 2004. This is also known as the "superwave" patent. It is
>similar and precedes the Brillouin IP - and will also rain on the Godes
>parade, if it turns out that structured waveforms are the key to success.
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[JonesBeene]

Bob

Have you (or MFMP) experimented with any variation of the Dardik superwave?

I think it is more than coincidence that Rossi, Brillouin, Kimmel, Energetics 
etc, etc have employed interfering waveforms as the input power.

Even if Rossi’s recent effort was a null result, it is true that his PS seems 
unusually lossy. 

Sadly, that is the most hopeful thing that anyone can honestly say about it….


From: Bob Higgins

➢ the demo served no net purpose - except possibly to those there that were 
granted greater access to the data.  You and I should take it as a presumed 
null experiment since there was inadequate data shared to show any XE.

JonesBeene wrote:

➢ The most important Euro Patent from Dardik, El-Boher et al entitled "Pulsed 
low energy nuclear reaction power generators" EP 1656678 B1 with a grant date 
of 2004. This is also known as the "superwave" patent. It is similar and 
precedes the Brillouin IP - and will also rain on the Godes parade, if it turns 
out that structured waveforms are the key to success.
 

[Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[Bob Higgins]

To most of us here, the issue of patent infringement unimportant.
Infringement would only become an issue once the device was going to
product, and it would only go to product if it was usefully producing XE.
The real issue is that so little was demonstrated in this meeting that what
Rossi has could be anything from nothing (a funky looking resistor) to
anything you wish to imagine.  So, the demo served no net purpose - except
possibly to those there that were granted greater access to the data.  You
and I should take it as a presumed null experiment since there was
inadequate data shared to show any XE.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:33 AM, JonesBeene  wrote:

>
>
> “We may agree that the demo is crazy but is it crazy enough to have a
> chance of being correct ?”
>
>
>
> Ha - ‘Bohring’ as it may sound, that may be a decent summation of the
> current situation, but so is the observation that at least 60 watts
> electrical is going in from the wall and only 50 watts thermal is coming
> out, so there is no gain at all.
>
>
>
> It really doesn’t matter that the loss is in the power supply ! This
> particular kind of loss is unavoidable and must be included in the calcs.
>
>
>
> The only power measurement which is relevant is at the wall plug - since
> it is abundantly clear that at least two interfering frequencies are being
> used to produce a waveform, which is necessary and lossy. Rossi was hiding
> the waveform issue as far back as 5 years ago, and we know it is relevant.
> The Q-pulse which is part of Brillouin's IP is similar – very similar - but
> the original idea comes from Dardik and the Israeli company ENERGETICs,
> both now out of the picture.
>
>
>
> The most important Euro Patent from Dardik, El-Boher et al entitled
> "Pulsed low energy nuclear reaction power generators" EP 1656678 B1 with a
> grant date of 2004. This is also known as the "superwave" patent. It is
> similar and precedes the Brillouin IP - and will also rain on the Godes
> parade, if it turns out that structured waveforms are the key to success.
>
>
>
> Two relevant remaining questions are: can these structured waveforms be
> produced with less loss by using a dedicated power supply, and why does
> this demo of Rossi not infringe on the Dardik IP? Or on Brillouin’s similar
> IP for the Q-pulse?
>
>
>
> Dardik’s successors (including Mckubre who is on one of the old patent
> apps) along with Violante have already demonstrated small thermal gain with
> superwaves as far back as 2008. They are probably doing this in Texas, now
> as we speak and they are probably watching Rossi to see if he has made a
> breakthrough but he has not.
>
>
>
> No one issure who currently holds the basic superwave patent (since the
> demise of Energetics LLC) but the USPTO fees are being maintained, so
> somebody realizes the value. Bottom line - as always in measuring input
> power, when unusual waveforms and interfering waves are used as input power
> the losses in the power supply MUST BE included as part of input.
>
>
>
> This is likely to be exactly what SRI told Brillouion and it is probably
> why Godes has gone silent. The losses in the power supply for making
> superwaves cannot be lessened enough to show large gain. It is likely that
> both Godes and Rossi could minimize the losses somewhat, and show COP in
> the range of 1.5 to 2 but even then, they would be infringing on EP 1656678
> B1.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[JonesBeene]

“We may agree that the demo is crazy but is it crazy enough to have a chance of 
being correct ?”

Ha - ‘Bohring’ as it may sound, that may be a decent summation of the current 
situation, but so is the observation that at least 60 watts electrical is going 
in from the wall and only 50 watts thermal is coming out, so there is no gain 
at all.

It really doesn’t matter that the loss is in the power supply ! This particular 
kind of loss is unavoidable and must be included in the calcs.

The only power measurement which is relevant is at the wall plug - since it is 
abundantly clear that at least two interfering frequencies are being used to 
produce a waveform, which is necessary and lossy. Rossi was hiding the waveform 
issue as far back as 5 years ago, and we know it is relevant. The Q-pulse which 
is part of Brillouin's IP is similar – very similar - but the original idea 
comes from Dardik and the Israeli company ENERGETICs, both now out of the 
picture.

The most important Euro Patent from Dardik, El-Boher et al entitled "Pulsed low 
energy nuclear reaction power generators" EP 1656678 B1 with a grant date of 
2004. This is also known as the "superwave" patent. It is similar and precedes 
the Brillouin IP - and will also rain on the Godes parade, if it turns out that 
structured waveforms are the key to success.

Two relevant remaining questions are: can these structured waveforms be 
produced with less loss by using a dedicated power supply, and why does this 
demo of Rossi not infringe on the Dardik IP? Or on Brillouin’s similar IP for 
the Q-pulse? 

Dardik’s successors (including Mckubre who is on one of the old patent apps) 
along with Violante have already demonstrated small thermal gain with 
superwaves as far back as 2008. They are probably doing this in Texas, now as 
we speak and they are probably watching Rossi to see if he has made a 
breakthrough but he has not. 

No one issure who currently holds the basic superwave patent (since the demise 
of Energetics LLC) but the USPTO fees are being maintained, so somebody 
realizes the value. Bottom line - as always in measuring input power, when 
unusual waveforms and interfering waves are used as input power the losses in 
the power supply MUST BE included as part of input. 

This is likely to be exactly what SRI told Brillouion and it is probably why 
Godes has gone silent. The losses in the power supply for making superwaves 
cannot be lessened enough to show large gain. It is likely that both Godes and 
Rossi could minimize the losses somewhat, and show COP in the range of 1.5 to 2 
but even then, they would be infringing on EP 1656678 B1.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi dog & pony show with full audio

[ROGER ANDERTON]

Bohr supposedly said variants of: We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. 
The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of 
being correct.https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Niels_Bohr
As regards the mess in physics; Bohr, Heisenberg, Feynman etc were all working 
from Unified field theory that was published in 1758 in Boscovich's book "A 
theory of Natural Philosophy..." It used to be taught to physics students in 
19th century, but   was cut-out in the 20th century to make room for new topics.
It is the modern atomic theory: that matter made mostly out of space and a few 
particles; and physics students are not told whose theory that is. 

latest talk by Dragoslav explains Quantum physics been misunderstood:
Stoiljkovich Dragoslav: Charge percolation mechanism of olefins polymerization

  
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Stoiljkovich Dragoslav: Charge percolation mechanism of olefins polymerization
 Stoiljkovich Dragoslav: Charge percolation mechanism of olefins polymerization 
Paper: The charge percolation mec...  |   |

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previous talk explains what is missed out from physics education:
>From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav Stoiljkovic

  
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>From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav Stoilj...
 "From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory": talk by retired Professor 
Dragoslav Stoiljkovi...  |   |

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So, its most physicists having amnesia; not being aware of the history of their 
own subject.
Ioan Has paper: electromagnetism connected to gravity by Boscovich's theory:
A Theoretical Confirmation of the Gravitation New Origin Having a Dipolar 
Electrical Nature with Coulomb Law Corrected

  
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A Theoretical Confirmation of the Gravitation New Origin Having a Dipolar E...
 By Ioan Has The paper starts by analyzing the actual justification of the 
separation existing between electrical and gravita...  |   |

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On Wednesday, 29 November 2017, 19:44, Jed Rothwell  
wrote:
 

 Nigel Dyer  wrote:

I've sat through a number of talks at fringe science conferences that were 
modelled on the two excellent you tube videos. The speakers usually give every 
impression that they fully believe the nonsense that they are presenting is 
correct.

They probably do believe it. But you should bear in mind that the problem might 
be on your end. Unfamiliar ideas often sound like nonsense, yet they sometimes 
turn out to be right.
Regarding ideas that seem wrong and turn out to be wrong, see the marvelous 
quote at the end of this essay, p. 13:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJlessonsfro.pdf

See also this book, which I recommend: "Being Wrong: Adventures in the Margin 
of Error," by Kathryn Schulz. This begins with a quote from Franklin, which I 
think describes one of the reasons people are seduced into believing errors:


Perhaps the history of the errors of mankind, all things considered, is more 
valuable and interesting than that of their discoveries. Truth is uniform and 
narrow; it constantly exists, and does not seem to require so much an active 
energy, as a passive aptitude of soul in order to encounter it. But error is 
endlessly diversified; it has no reality, but is the pure and simple creation 
of the mind that invents it. In this field, the soul has room enough to expand 
herself, to display all her boundless faculties, and all her beautiful and 
interesting extravagancies and absurdities.
—Benjamin Franklin, Report of Dr. Benjamin Franklin, and Other Commissioners, 
Charged by the King of France, with the Examination of the Animal Magnetism, as 
Now Practiced in Paris (1784)

- Jed