Re: [Vo]:It Might Be Over This Spring

2021-02-20 Thread Jed Rothwell
Note that one of the NYT projections also shows April as the date herd
immunity begins. Look at the graph with three choices labeled "CHOSE A
SCENARIO." Select the third choice:

Huge supply increase

5 million shots per day


The text changes to:


It’s a stretch, but if the pace increases to 5 million shots per day, we
could reach the herd immunity threshold by April. In that time, 80,000 people
could die from the virus.


I think 5 million shots per day might be possible, especially if the J&J
single-dose vaccine becomes available and if J&J does have production
problems. I read they have some problems now. Let us hope the problems can
be fixed quickly.


Re: [Vo]:It Might Be Over This Spring

2021-02-20 Thread Jed Rothwell
I wrote:

Taking into account one thing and another, the WSJ and the NYT estimates
> are not far apart.
>

WSJ predicts April, NYT predicts July. A 3-month difference is not gigantic
given all the unknowns. For example, what percent of the population will it
take for herd immunity to begin? The other day Fauci said he originally
assumed it was around 70% but now he thinks it may be more like 75% to 85%.
Possibly even 90%. If it is 85%, herd immunity will take longer. He said he
cannot pin it down closer than 75% to 85% mainly because we still don't
know how contagious it is.

Fauci was criticized for changing his mind and for giving such a broad
range of numbers. To me, that sounds like an honest biologist. Medicine and
biology are not exact sciences!

Fauci said we will eventually know more accurately how contagious it is.

See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/24/health/herd-immunity-covid-coronavirus.html

QUOTE:

Interviews with epidemiologists regarding the degree of herd immunity
needed to defeat the coronavirus produced a range of estimates, some of
which were in line with Dr. Fauci’s. They also came with a warning: All
answers are merely “guesstimates.”

“You tell me what numbers to put in my equations, and I’ll give you the
answer,” said Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist at Harvard’s T.H. Chan
School of Public Health. “But you can’t tell me the numbers, because nobody
knows them.”




> The gradations in orange color at the top of the NYT graph show that it
> emerges gradually.
>

I mean the blue color at the top.


Re: [Vo]:It Might Be Over This Spring

2021-02-20 Thread Jed Rothwell
Taking into account one thing and another, the WSJ and the NYT estimates
are not far apart. Herd immunity is not an absolute condition, and it does
not turn on all at once over a certain threshold. The gradations in orange
color at the top of the NYT graph show that it emerges gradually.


Re: [Vo]:It Might Be Over This Spring

2021-02-20 Thread Terry Blanton
You might want to read this first:


https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/antibodies-fight-off-the-new-coronavirus-but-what-do-t-cells-do

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 4:35 PM Terry Blanton  wrote:

> Interesting discussion on T-cells.  All vaccines for SARS-CoV-2 rely upon
> antibody excitation; but, there is little discussion on peptide-based
> vaccines.  I found one that is being tested:
>
>
> https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201203/Novel-e2809cmultitopee2809d-vaccine-shows-promise-in-the-fight-against-COVID-19.aspx
>
>


Re: [Vo]:It Might Be Over This Spring

2021-02-20 Thread Terry Blanton
Interesting discussion on T-cells.  All vaccines for SARS-CoV-2 rely upon
antibody excitation; but, there is little discussion on peptide-based
vaccines.  I found one that is being tested:


https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201203/Novel-e2809cmultitopee2809d-vaccine-shows-promise-in-the-fight-against-COVID-19.aspx


Re: [Vo]:It Might Be Over This Spring

2021-02-20 Thread Terry Blanton
Funny, I didn't pay.  Here's the raw text:

We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

Covid cases have dropped 77% in six weeks. Experts should level with the
public about the good news.

By Marty Makary

Feb. 18, 2021 12:35 pm ET

PRINT

TEXT

1,740


ILLUSTRATION: MARTIN KOZLOWSKI




Amid the dire Covid warnings, one crucial fact has been largely ignored:
Cases are down 77% over the past six weeks. If a medication slashed cases
by 77%, we’d call it a miracle pill. Why is the number of cases plummeting
much faster than experts predicted?


In large part because natural immunity from prior infection is far more
common than can be measured by testing. Testing has been capturing only
from 10% to 25% of infections, depending on when during the pandemic
someone got the virus. Applying a time-weighted case capture average of 1
in 6.5 to the cumulative 28 million confirmed cases would mean about 55% of
Americans have natural immunity.


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Now add people getting vaccinated. As of this week, 15% of Americans have
received the vaccine, and the figure is rising fast. Former Food and Drug
Commissioner Scott Gottlieb estimates 250 million doses will have been
delivered to some 150 million people by the end of March.


There is reason to think the country is racing toward an extremely low
level of infection. As more people have been infected, most of whom have
mild or no symptoms, there are fewer Americans left to be infected. At the
current trajectory, I expect Covid will be mostly gone by April, allowing
Americans to resume normal life.


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Antibody studies almost certainly underestimate natural immunity. Antibody
testing doesn’t capture antigen-specific T-cells, which develop “memory”
once they are activated by the virus. Survivors of the 1918 Spanish flu
were found in 2008—90 years later—to have memory cells still able to
produce neutralizing antibodies.


Researchers at Sweden’s Karolinska Institute found that the percentage of
people mounting a T-cell response after mild or asymptomatic Covid-19
infection consistently exceeded the percentage with detectable antibodies.
T-cell immunity was even present in people who were exposed to infected
family members but never developed symptoms. A group of U.K. scientists in
September pointed out that the medical community may be under-appreciating
the prevalence of immunity from activated T-cells.



Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. would also suggest much broader immunity than
recognized. About 1 in 600 Americans has died of Covid-19, which translates
to a population fatality rate of about 0.15%. The Covid-19 infection
fatality rate is about 0.23%. These numbers indicate that roughly
two-thirds of the U.S. population has had the infection.


In my own conversations with medical experts, I have noticed that they too
often dismiss natural immunity, arguing that we don’t have data. The data
certainly doesn’t fit the classic randomized-controlled-trial model of the
old-guard medical establishment. There’s no control group. But the
observational data is compelling.


I have argued for months that we could save more American lives if those
with prior Covid-19 infection forgo vaccines until all vulnerable seniors
get their first dose. Several studies demonstrate that natural immunity
should protect those who had Covid-19 until more vaccines are available.
Half my friends in the medical community told me: Good idea. The other half
said there isn’t enough data on natural immunity, despite the fact that
reinfections have occurred in less than 1% of people—and when they do
occur, the cases are mild.


But the consistent and rapid decline in daily cases since Jan. 8 can be
explained only by natural immunity. Behavior didn’t suddenly improve over
the holidays; Americans traveled more over Christmas than they had since
March. Vaccines also don’t explain the steep decline in January.
Vaccination rates were low and they take weeks to kick in.


My prediction that Covid-19 will be mostly gone by April is based on
laboratory data, mathematical data, published literature and conversations
with experts. But it’s also based on direct observation of how hard testing
has been to get, especially for the poor. If you live in a wealthy
community where worried people are vigilant about getting tested, you might
think that most infections are captured by testing. But if you have seen
the many barriers to testing for low-income Americans, you might think that
very few infections have been captured at testing centers. Keep in mind
that most infections are asymptomatic, which still triggers natural
immunity.



Many experts, along with politicians and journalists, are afraid to talk
about herd immunity. The term has poli

Re: [Vo]:It Might Be Over This Spring

2021-02-20 Thread Jed Rothwell
The WSJ article is behind a paywall. I hope this doctor is right. Other
estimates put herd immunity sometime around August. See:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/20/us/us-herd-immunity-covid.html

(I think this NYT article is not behind the paywall.)

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 9:13 PM Terry Blanton  wrote:

> A Johns Hopkins doctor says we will achieve herd immunity in April.
>
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/well-have-herd-immunity-by-april-11613669731
>