2011/8/6 Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com:
On 11-08-06 11:04 AM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
2011/8/6 Craig Hayniecchayniepub...@gmail.com:
You propose to end war with a
global democracy, but wars will never end as long as we give the power
seekers the ability to wage war.
I have not seen
2011/8/6 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com:
I think we will need to do something like this when robots and computers
eliminate most human labor. We need a gradual transition so a system along
these lines. See:
http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/
- Jed
I think that according synopsis,
]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that
galantini instrument is useless
To: Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
At 12:48 PM 8/6/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
I do not know who was that crack pot who first introduced this concept
of very wet steam. In steam industry, they pay lots
Any probe that measures temperature in boiling water system measures
also pressure. That is because boiling point of water is directly
depended on pressure.
- Jouni
2011/8/5 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com:
Daniel, *you* are wrong!
The ONLY *preassure* probe that can be connected is
2011/8/5 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com:
They claims that tehy have measured a temperature 100 C degrees and a
pression equal to ambient preassure, so they claims that the steam is dry.
They may claim whatever they want, but it is impossible that there is
ambient pressure, since E-Cat is
2011/8/5 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com:
This is the reason why you need to know only one measured variable
from E-Cat and that is the temperature of steam.
You need also RH to make sure there is no mist.
Mist does not contribute for the pressure and hence the temperature of
boiling
2011/8/5 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com:
I am talking about the need for the RH quantity,
to make sure that there isn't enough liquid mass to invalidate the output
power.
This kind of setup, that there is no liquid mass with steam, is
impossible, because it is not stable. Water inflow must
2011/8/6 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com:
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
I meant the winmail.dat attachment ... but that seems to be attached to all
your posts. I thought it contained the scoop on your hold the presses.
That results from Jones' use of
2011/8/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
The device has a pressure sensor in it,
the pressure sensor is not in the probe. It's looking like Galantini assumed
he was getting a pressure reading from the probe he'd placed in the E-cat,
hence his error.
This is too simple explanation!
2011/8/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
At 10:17 AM 8/5/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Any probe that measures temperature in boiling water system measures
also pressure. That is because boiling point of water is directly
depended on pressure.
Jouni, you can't see the forest
2011/8/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
Boilers, however, do not ordinarily have liquid water spilling over the edge
of a hole in the side of the boiler, at a pace determined by the difference
between the pumped rate and the vaporization rate. If there is substantial
steam (my very
2011/8/4 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
Now, if you assessed the probability at 70%, rationally you would bet 40
euros against a lesser amount from me. Suppose my bet is X euros. Forget the
charity thing, it complicates it.
It is impossible to assess probabilities for one time
Accoriding Steven Krivit (#3 report and some earlier writing), Daniele was
also present at 18 hour test (i have not seen other sources). Therefore he
is within the greates fraud of cold fusion or tells truth that world is
saved, because he knows with certainty whether E-Cat is for real or a hoax.
2011/8/3 Charles Hope lookslikeiwasri...@gmail.com:
Consider how futile it should be to make a prediction six months out,
as Rossi did regarding October, if reliability was still being addressed
the entire time. That does not smell right. One can only predict confidently
about well controlled
2011/8/3 OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com:
Considering Jouni's recent challenge:
...I will challenge you for 40 euros that Rossi does
not do a fraud. If E-Cat is true, you pay 40 euros to charity,
and if not I pay 40 euros for charity.
Perhaps Charles and Hope should
2011/8/4 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
I've done a great deal of research on this topic.
Problem is that mere research is not enough, because you need to be
able to do your own conclusions from data and that includes reading
other people's mind from between the lines. This is very
On Jul 30, 2011 3:50 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Damon Craig decra...@gmail.com wrote:
It irritates me to no end. All the rational evidence we have been
presented supports the claim that water spills through the outlet.
No, that cannot be happening. As Storms pointed out,
On Jul 29, 2011 12:29 AM, Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com
wrote:
As I said, my feeling is that he prefers steam because it proves the
thing
works at high temperature. Also, it is a little more convenient to work
with. The flow of water is lower and you can use a weight scale
and
empty words they really does something concrete.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsqSEw6Nti8sns=em
I also need to upgrade slightly my previous estimations. For March E-Cat
1.6kW, April 2.4 kW and June E-Cat 1.4 kW.
On Jul 21, 2011 1:07 AM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 28, 2011 6:07 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, better and even simpler- but from some reasons (temperature
difference, control) Rossi prefers steam.
For me Rossi's choice does make perfect sense, because purpose of these
steam generators is not to produce warm water,
Peter,
producing low pressure steam is not the point, but to produce high pressure
steam when E-Cats are scaled up and connected in serial and paraller for 1MW
plant. It is claimed by Defkalion that E-Cat is able to produce 414°C steam
in high pressure. This is what scaling up means here.
Jed wrote:
If cold fusion starts to succeed in a big way, then I expect many
people in the fossil fuel industry will begin to fear it
Thanks again for excellent post! But I think that even this is
exaggerating, because in oil industry people who has there real power
are also immeasurable
Craig, indeed that is true, liquid water does not contribute to the pressure
at all, because water does not gently flow out of the E-Cat, but is spilled
due to rather violent boiling at kW range in closed container.
Only thing that contributes for the pressure is steam flow pressure out of
the
Damon, little two sec googling with cell phone gave me this link:
http://brewery.org/library/SteInjCS1295.html
It says that all boiling chambers produces about 98% dry steam. Therefore
wetness measurement that was 1.4-1.2% feels very reliable. I think that
wetness depens slightly on temperature
Perhaps auxiliary heater is for preheating inlet water so that the
temperature gradient of water is smoother. This would help to maintain more
constant temperature in the core and thus increase controllability, as heat
energy from reactor core is used for making steam at constant temperature,
but
2011/7/22 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
However, claims that the data is contradictory, on the basis of steam
pressure calculations, seem to fail.
Thanks for these calculations – they sound reasonable. For me it seems
that E-Cat worked properly only in Mats Lewan's hands where
2011/7/22 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
Essentially, burden is a social construct, it doesn't exist aside from
human conventions. There is no burden meter.
Again you are on a roll! This burden of proof argument is silly and
widely spread pseudoargument.
Usually it works, because
1200W±200W and water was just overflowing.
—Jouni
PS. Here is my explanation and working theory how E-Cat is functioning:
-- Forwarded message --
From: Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
Date: 2011/7/20
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Uppsala University Denies Rossi Research Agreement
One interesting conspiracy theory hole is that in all demonstrations
(January, March and May) total excess energy production was roughly 22
MJ, what is energy contained in 170 g of hydrogen. This kind of
coincidence could be easily interpreted that there is somewhere small
hidden hydrogen bottle
I re-watched Krivit's video and got confirmation for this
interpretation. Temperature anomaly was there just 100.1°C and steam
production only fraction of Lewan's E-Cat. Therefore we can estimate
that Krivit's E-Cat produced, while video was filmed, something like
1000W±200W total power.
So, here
2011/7/19 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
At 03:15 PM 7/19/2011, Joshua Cude wrote:
The 120 kW excursion makes the 18-hr test less credible to me. It means
that during that excursion the delta T between the ecat walls and the water
would have to increase by an order of magnitude. If
Abd ul-Rahman wrote: My conclusion is that there is very likely *some*
overflow water, but it might be small. I have no way of telling how much
there is, the demonstrations were not set up to make it possible to tell.
This is probably correct analysis. I think that this is possible to
calculate
2011/7/18 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com:
P.J van Noorden wrote:
It is very important to notice that water boils at 100.5 C when the
outside air pressure is 1030 mBar, which can be the case when a high
pressure system is covering Italy . . .
In the April 28 tests, Lewan reported: we
Julian Brown wrote:
Basically, the whole set up defies even approximate quantitative
calorimetric analysis.
This is nonsensical speculation. E-Cat is designed to be a standard
boiling water reactor and boiling water reactor is exactly similar
setup than a kettle. And we know that tea pots do
2011/7/18 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
teapots don't have a fixed water flow input. Rather, water is added
when the level declines.
This is irrelevant difference. Water flow is there only to ensure that
water level does not drop below reactor core, so that core does not
expose to
1MW demoplant will produce ca. 414°C steam. It is completely irrelevant if
it really works in scientific way or not, because it will be only a
demonstration for journalists and politicians. If you want real proof, you
can pay and preorder your own E-Cat and if you do not get what was promised,
you
2011/7/15 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
I don't know what it is about this, but Jed seems to have lost his ability
to read and understand Of course, it could be me, I suppose. Aren't we
always the last to know?
I think that it is both, because you speak different language. You
2011/7/15 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
I must say, I'm appalled at how much time has been wasted on
inadequate demonstrations.
This is surprising considering that anyone here has never said
anything that those demonstrations has any scientific relevance. That
is simply because they
Damon, Nasa wants a cheap power source in order to deliver cargo to the
orbit. And power for ion engines that enable fast deep space missions to the
asteroids, Mars and beyond.
E-Cat is perfect power source for aeroplane, but it can be applied also for
launch vehicle.
On Jul 13, 2011 2:14 PM,
If considered that in E-Cat there is constantly flowing cool water to
replenish boiled water, then it is quite obvious that 2.5 kilowatt is
very much possible with Mats' E-Cat. However Steven's E-Cat was
malfunctioning while video was shot.
That stove was quite modern, therefore it is likely that
I think that proper interpretation is that this just falsifies inflation
theory of cosmology, but we did already knew this that inflation theory does
not have any relevance with our cosmos. Only thing that can rival inflation
theory in ludicrousness is the theory of dark matter!
But I am glad if
Abd wrote: My operating position has become that the public information
does not allow us to come to clear conclusions about the Rossi claims. If
I'm correct, then those who do, in fact, make claims of clear conclusion,
either way, are merely displaying bias. It shouldn't be suprising, bias is
Very good response by Andrea. We see that those movie clowns have also
infiltrated Vortex, like Joshua, Abd and few other pseudoskeptics. One thing
also what must be considered, but what was ignored by pseudoskeptics was
that the room temperature was over 30 degrees. This makes steam less visible
also
be from chemical sources, they are not excluded. But this not what was said
but asumption was that there was just two orders of magnitude measurement
error what is just ridiculous.
On Jun 29, 2011 5:33 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote:
On 11-06-29 10:23 AM, Jouni Valkonen wrote
On Jun 29, 2011 6:03 PM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote:
You yourself argued at length that the temperature
is not above the boiling point, as evidenced by its
perfectly flat nature. You argued it was because only
liquid water is heated directly. If the steam is dry
and above the
Jeff,
thermometer was calibrated and unlike common belief, boiling point was not
100 degrees, but 99.7°C ± 0.1.
The fact is that steam must be dry if it's temperature is above 100.1 °C ±
0.1 at atmospheric pressure.
—Jouni
E-Cat can be fabricated on all possible levels, because we do not know very
little relevant details about the setup. However waterflow is not probable
because Mats Lewan collected condensated steam into blue bucket. He would
probably have seen if there had flown some 12 liters of water into small
On Jun 26, 2011 5:55 PM, Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com wrote:
So, we have no evidence about how much steam exits directly from the
Rossi device into the hose.
Actually i heard that Mats Lewan crudely estimated that about half of the
water was evaporated. Remaining half was overflowed or
Mark, thanks for providing error margins. I think that this means that the
accuracy when measuring delta-T, is ±0.1°C, but it's accuracy without
calibration is ±0.4°C. Therefore thermometer was calibrated that boiling
point was 99.7°C. Henceforth thermometer measures accurately.
To add one
2011/6/25 Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com:
Well it might be if the reactor were at the bottom of a tea pot, and the
output at the top of the pot. But the input and output to the reactor are
both horizontal at the same level.
here was your misunderstanding. This is not true, because water
2011/6/25 Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com:
On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
wrote:
2011/6/25 Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com:
Well it might be if the reactor were at the bottom of a tea pot, and the
output at the top of the pot. But the input
2011/6/25 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
A tea pot has no means to overflow. Water is not continually added. It is
also not designed like a percolator, with large confined boiling
compartment, and a narrow short chimney.
It does not require much engineering to modify tea pot that it
2011/6/24 Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com:
As soon as it starts boiling, things get very turbulent. Steam is 1700 times
the volume of water for the same mass, so it's gonna push things around.
It's gonna push all the water ahead of it out, and convert the unboiled
water behind it to a fine
2011/6/24 Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com:
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
wrote:
I do not know how many times you and abd have been told that the
measured boiling point of water is 99,7 °C. Therefore if there is mist
mixed into dry steam
2011/6/25 Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com:
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
If you have a high temperature thermometer, please try this at home:
Boil some water in a teapot so that steam emerges from the spout. Turn the
flame down, so that only a
the
flow rate (reduce it) until the temperature of the steam begins to climb to
110C or 120C. Then you could be sure the steam is dry, the calculation he
likes to stumble over would have some validity.
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
wrote:
Therefore E
hello,
here is interesting comment from http://www.facebook.com/EnergyCatalyzer
vvv
Cesar Pinheiro:
A comment in this page (
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3166552.ece
) deserves merit to improve the tests.
I don't know if testing the water was done
Idea with this fusion is that in fusion two light nucleous merge. But there
is no good evidence that this reaction is plausible in low energy (without
muons). However LENR does not exactly specify what does happen, but has more
experimental approach.
But in my opinnion Steven is perhaps wrong
About those pseudoskeptics who doubt the dryness of the steam. Why they do
not just boil water on the stove and then calculate the energy concumption
from water used. If the setup resembles Rossi's setup, then it would be
child's play to calculate probable error margins.
—Jouni
Daniele Passerini constantly talks about April 21. Perhaps this
mysterious date was that, when team Ferrari made the 10 hour test with
output that was sufficient for 10-20 washing machines. If that is the
case, then scientific validation of E-Cat has already been made, by
this Bologna team of
Loris Ferrari said quite clearly that E-Cat what they have, can
produce enough power for 10 to 20 washing machines with the input of
incandescent light bulb. Reading rossignlish is very difficult skill,
and Rossi's comments are not usually good source for information,
because he does not say much
=A3EQ858DHKP5EEs=booksqid=1306193015sr=1-3
John's home page:
http://www.xecnet.com/
Jouni
2011/5/24 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com:
This might be interesting. I tried to google John's background as a
writer but it was difficult, because there is another writer with the
same name. Does not help
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