Re: [Vo]:Stiffler: [All the news that's fit to pr...]
- Original Message - From: OrionWorks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [Vo]:Stiffler: [All the news that's fit to pr...] Jones, Would you by perchance have any new information worth reporting or pondering over out loud as to what's happening in Stifflerland these days? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1291 - Release Date: 2/21/2008 11:05 AM
Re: [Vo]:Detroit's #1 problem: the Peter Principle
Howdy Jones, Back in the '80's, Roger was CEO of GM and drove the last vestige of sanity at GM into the ground like a tent stake. While we were sleeping an entire piece of what we knew of as America was destroyed... by economic terrorists, our real enemies. When the Dime Box saloon starts importing knockoff brands of Tequila,,, and the Guv'ment wont let us make our own moonshine.. well.. Richard Jones wrote, ... but still, all things considered, how much longer can GM keep letting their Peters do the talking, and make such major market miscalculations? ... all the while driving a once-excellent and dominant company into early retirement ?
[VO]: Free Will Power
Howdy Vorts, This link was passed on to me for comment. I am unfamilar with the people that produce this website. They claim to invest in new energy research. There is no address given and no board of directors listed although they claim 501C3 listing. Perhaps Steve Krivit , editor of New Energy Time ( NET) knows of them. Richard http://www.freewillpower.org/
Re: [Vo]:Nuke causes massive power outage
Howdy Jed, One of the 20 worse polluting USA coal fired electric power plants, The FPP plant ,Fayette county Texas has a problem. Seems their effort in finally getting the scrubber installed ( a little oversight when constructing it some 40 years ago...) hmmm. the concrete foundation for the new dual new scrubber failed inspection. To give you some idea of the enormity of the problem, the concrete slab will have to be broken up and removed . It is 70 feet in diameter and 8 feet thcik with reinforcing steel oh ! I forgot to mention the deep pier pilings under the slab are too difficult to remove so they will re-inforce the piers. The trick will be to drill holes in the slab and fill with a type of expanding grout to fracture the concrete into pieces for removal. Comment with the report.. it is obvious there will be a delay in completing our environmental improvements. This plant is owned by the state of Texas and the city of Austin... pristine in their thinking and rightousness in going after any polluter but their own. Not to be outdone.. as no Texas power producer can .. the Houston ship channel industries old Reliant power plant, one of 4 fallen into bankruptcy because of rising fuel costs and too broke to install pollution equipment, was resurrected from the dead and sold for 450m and change. The new owners will be given time to work out their pollution problems. No place but Texas, where no man's life nor property is safe when the legislature is in session. Not to worry says the regulators.. we in Texas are way ahead of the curve because the US is in serious trouble and face catastrophic electric power shortages across the nation this year caused by an aging infrastructure and by environmentalists causing delays in new plant construction. Richard
Re: [Vo]:New supercomputer is a rack of PlayStations
Interesting analog observation Jones, I had never connected this thought when observing the laws of human nature, ( alive and well in the Dime Box saloon).Public education provides and equally valid example of the law governing cultures which allow that when mixing cultures, the most base culture will drag every other culture down to it's base as demonstrated by USA public education experiments. It is often proposed that ancient Greece culture was destroyed from within. The city of Ephesus offers a clue to what really happens when a culture like the Greek is invaded by a most evil and debased culture that totally corrupted the higher ideals taught in Greece. We can anticipate the next generation of computer technology to validate the result of a combination of shifts in society. Everything predicted by Alvin Toffler has already come and gone when he predicted that a culture will rise that produces a religion of demanding constant change vs the time held desire of past generations to cling to traditions. When the concept of money has been reconceptualized as revealed by Don Rumsfeld remark that deficits no longer matter, we may begin to better understand a new economic model is being tested on the world. These future shock events now taking place are only preludes. Richard Jones wrote, The very best human brain is 'around' the equivalent of 1-10 teraflops although admittedly this is an impossible comparison to make valid- since the brain is analog not digital.
Re: [Vo]:Nelson Ying back in the news
Howdy Vorts, Give the students a high mark for trying to live their dream. We have been reviewing our company's performance and financial position for preparing new business strategies for the next seven years. .Our conclusion is we do not have sufficent information on which to base a forward looking strategy. We have concluded that if we lack the information, the like is so for both government and the corporate world. This atmosphere produces uncertainty and offers us the best understanding of why LENR science has been stymied by mainstream academia. Fear has permeated the corporate world. Fear cultures a host of unexplanable reactions. Fear has not yet reached academia or government because of their supposed insulation afforded by every increasing taxation. We are watching a 21st century form of Boston Tea Party evolving where a divorce from the crown takes place with the corporate world fleeing to safe havens offshore. Take toys away from undisciplined children and expect unpredictable reactions. These kids in Florida would do best by studying how to survive. Richard
Re: [Vo]:New supercomputer is a rack of PlayStations
Howdy Jones, Lets also remind ourselves of what happened to Egypt and the mercenaries of Pharaoh. One day the hired help decided they could take over from the decadent royalty. A recent report has 150,000 employees under contract with K-BR and others like Blackwater supposedly handling chores below the dignity of the US Army et al. We have no way of knowing what these employees are contracted for except repair power plants and pipelines. The 150k include mercenaries from every nation including ex Viet Cong. A well disciplined and well paid small mercenary force with proper training and advanced technology could be a lethal opponent in today's world as attested long ago by the kid who described himself as the Alex the great. Richard
[Vo]:]VO]:: OT: The Ides of March
Howdy Vorts, This writer is a respected financial analyist. Reading between the lines of his article, I sense he is saying that by the middle of March the financial world will know if the banking and financial structures can be salvaged . I wonder if Ceasar saw it coming ? http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/MarketsRallyIsReallyATrap.aspx Richard
Re: [Vo]:Nordberg's fusion reactor patent
Howdy Thomas, Doesn't matter whether it works or not cuz it's just a patent. The patent industry is in business to publish patents. Anyone that wishes to have a patent to put in a frame and hang on their wall may do so. Like printed money, it's only of value if someone else accepts it. However, a closer study of the wording in Nordberg's patent reveals a glaring flaw that surprises me that it slipped past the patent examiner's scrutinity. Technically, it does not make a claim. It only claims to make a claim. Very shrewd work by an accomplished patent attorney. All of which demonstrates that with time, brains and money, one can do wonders with numbers while eating cucumbers. Richard Thomas wrote, What do you think about the possibility of it's working?
Re: [Vo]:OT: 9/11 encore une fois
Howdy Michael, Since Cotillard is an intellectual perhaps he can explain in simple language why he believes in a 9/11 conspiracy. Where are they hiding the passengers? While on the subject.. who the heck is they. How does one gain sufficent credibility to have their insights believed publically ? A lot of drunks at the Dime Box Saloon will agree ONE building could implode from being struck by an airplane. A few drunks may agree TWO buildings may implode exactly alike... BUT.. there ain't nodody here, drunk nor sober that will accept THREE buildings exploding in identical fashion when the third building was NOT struck by an airplane. I watched the TV that day. I wasnt there. I don't know what happened Neither do I know what happened at the Pentagon. The only option I have is whether I accept the version purveyed by the 9/11 commission.I don't! I don't have a version to offer since I'm not an intellectual. I can accept the possibility that over the 400 years since Machevelli composed his how to on how to betray friends and intimidate people, somebody a whole lot smarter than me has improved on his strategies. Richard Michael Foster wrote, I read where Marion Cotillard is a believer in the 9/11 conspiracy theory. It's important that those with the crediblity to do so express their insights publicly. The sheer mental force brought by such a well-known French intellect is probably more convincing close up.
Re: [Vo]:Tooo obvious for Detroit?
Interesting thinking Jones. A proposed valveless, pistonless engine/motor concept is being studied whereas the engine is ring shaped and drives a cluster of embedded cavity discs positioned with the ring. The design approach is to build a planetary transmission with an engine inside . The transmission functions both for mechanical drive output assisted by the huge torque output with the large diameter ring primary mover and also output electric power from the electric generating features. Designers have been stuck in the 18th century steam engine rut too long. Their approach has been to build an engine and connect it to a transmission. Radical new thinking suggests that we should be building a transmission and fit an engine/electric generator inside. This thinking would allow for the engine exhaust to serve a secondary turbine scavenging purpose. The unit assembly shape could be an inclined pancake shaped configuration and ... not use gears but slip discs within the planetary reduction system. These radical new engine/motor concepts fit the theme of your post. New engines must be designed for new fuels and not attempt to make new fuels fit present engine technology. Richard Jones wrote, The following suggestion, or a version of it, will be implemented by some perceptive auto manufacturer in the coming years.
Re: [Vo]:Tooo obvious for Detroit?
Howdy Thomas, There is a far step from an inventor and an engineer- design team. Mention the word inventor and we run. Mention the inventors' work is patented and we duck our head waiting for the noise sure to follow. All engine designs that perform useful work are similar. The difference between them are people. Some engines like Cummins diesel have what it takes, Detroit diesel don't have it. It will take some real work to get Cummins to change. THe Wankel rotary is an example of designers that love to play smartypants. They finally got a perfectly useless engine to work. Down the road aways comes the battery operated jalopy made of bicycle components... try applying this technology to high speed diesel motor trucks and discover why we need new motor fuels that fuel 500-800 HP truck engines and Cat dozers. Hoss power is horse manure.. torque is what a mule's got in his rear. This world needs a whole new stable of advanced radical engine designs for work engines just like we need energy efficent autos. Richard I corresponded with an inventor who had a patent on an engine design that sounded similar to this. R C Macaulay wrote: Interesting thinking Jones. A proposed valveless, pistonless engine/motor concept is being studied whereas the engine is ring shaped and drives a cluster of embedded cavity discs positioned with the ring. The design approach Jones wrote, The following suggestion, or a version of it, will be implemented by some perceptive auto manufacturer in the coming years.
Re: [Vo]:The Kiplinger Letter: 03/07/08 comments on energy
Howdy Steven, Kiplinger needs to do his math. Search out how much petroleum is consumed in the US daily and divide by 100 billion. Always remember what the politicians give as the answer to what is the business of government. The business of government is business Richard Steven wrote, A new black gold rush is under way, this time in North Dakota. The potential payoff is huge...up to 100 billion barrels of oil. That's twice the size of Alaska's reserves...enough to meet U.S. needs for 20 years. An official government estimate is due out next month.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Tooo obvious for Detroit?
Howdy Vorts, People and their love affairs with their autos. Any fleet operator can show records that prove the Chevrolet autos and small trucks are the best all around. We have a chev fleet, we try other brands for experience but it's Chevrolet. Ever see a fleet of Lexus or Mercedes? Or Toyota trucks ? We can run a fleet of Chev pickups at near zero maintenance and trade when they teach 150,000 miles. Funny, some have a metal ID shows assembled in Jaurez Mexico. Ask anybody that uses Toyota and Mercedes what service costs at their dealership.. notice one of the billionaires listed in this years survey is a Toyota dealer in Texas. GM had the truck engine that won WW2, a 6 cyl workhorse. Germany built the tiger tank, the fighter plane and the 88 long gun but they couldn't build a 6x6 2 1/2 ton truck. It was management at GM that sold GM down the river, the poor dumb people that worked there just built the best.. thank you Roger Smith for the memories, and thank you ITT. ITT was the Mafia wire service telephone company for the Cuba and south. After Castro took over, ITT claimed a loss and was compensated by the US. They took the money and bought US companies and hired accountants to parlay the cash outa the kazoo. They were the teachers of tactics practiced by accountants since. There is not a US insurance company that has a dime in cash in a US bank today. GMAC is now owned by HSBC, a Chinese Hong Kong bank run by British bankers (but never a US trained accountant).. Arthur Anderson CPA and Enron.. no place but Texas. We should know by the ides of March if the banking and financial system of the USA will survive as we know it. The turkeys are trying hard enough to destroy it. Now for the good news... Richard - Original Message - From: thomas malloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Tooo obvious for Detroit? Terry Blanton wrote: I can't allow the denigration of engineers in the automotive industry continue. I had a friend who was an engineering manager in Detroit I agree, IMHO, it's the MBA's and the lawyers.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Tooo obvious for Detroit?
Yep, Philip, We have unit 3 4 nuke plant starting construction soon at Bay City Texas.. part of the South Texas project. They are having their share of the problems using a Jap design .. plus the environmental problems to overcome. The problem with Nukes are... They can operate some 40-50 years and reach a point when the metal crystallizes and become unsafe. There can be no repairs because nobody can work to make piping and equipment replacements under such high radiation conditions so They encase the whole plant in a concrete coffin like Chernobyl for 250,000 years.. That fact never gets mentioned Richard
Re: [Vo]:The Kiplinger Letter: 03/07/08 comments on energy
Howdy Steven, The 2005 estimate USA crude consumption was some 20 million barrels per day and change, in other words, nobody actually knows for sure.. you can estimate the consumption is now some 21-22 mbd and counting. again nobody knows the actual tally ,nor do they know refining amounts and imports of refined fuel.. just guest estimate... its like estimating the number of jobs lost or found. The guv-ment politicos love these statistics cuz they they can perform wonders with numbers while eating cucumber as you noticed this week reports of falling jobs and the roiling of the stock market. This sudden announcement trimmed some 5 trillion off the stock market... it's fun to watch how easily it's done with statistics. The oil under the ground around North Dakota an over into Canada has been well known for a long time... its near worthless cuz it's so hard to get to and it's heavy near like asphalt. The only nearby plant capable of refining is near Billings, Montana until Canada brings on their new refinery for tar sands. Today's game for politicos is to keep the economy from slipping over the edge until after the November election and after it don't matter because the losers will make it happens and the winners will become the losers and the people will blame us. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Time is running out
Howdy Jones, FDR took us off the gold standard back in the 30'. LBJ displaced the silver coin in the 70's and Nixon removed pegging the US dollar to gold at 35 bucks, troy. Take away the underpinnings of a nation's currency and expect somebody's gonna figure out a way to sell ice to Eskimos using snow for money... The Dime Box Saloon financial advisory board, made up of some very astute and learned ex-bankers, ex-cons and some pretty good all around montebanks have just published their latest market analysis... quote... 50% of nothin' is nothin' when ya play poker with scared money. You can take this wisdom to the bank. For all the pollyana's left in the world, I don't suppose it would do to mention the gravity train with the biscuit wheels ..dun gone and run off da tracks. Richard Jones Beene wrote, Billions of put option contracts are betting that the stock market will crash by March 21st, signaled by the rouge put option trades on the NASDAQ-100 index through the Power Share () contracts
[Vo]:[VO] : Old Energy New Money
Howdy Vorts, Energy has displaced the US dollar as coin of the realm. This simple observation permits an examination of not only the US dollar as being a reserve currency, it also allows us another view into the fundamentals of gold. When gold reached $ 1,000.00 per oz/troy.. it demonstrated the US dollar has lost it's posture as a reserve currency. The world does not yet have another true medium outside of gold, so the logical step may be to fall back on the value of a barrel of crude oil. The USA has operated under the Keynesian economic model since FDR. This model ,as in all pyramid schemes, anticipates a sustained gravy train with biscuit wheels economy where everything purchased yesterday will be paid for in tomorrows dollars well.. err.. until.. there is no tomorrow. A new energy formula and policy may be stymied.. not by lack of leadership.. but by lack of understanding of the medium of currency. The nations with crude oil based economies may be the ones forced to construct a new currency model just as the USA was forced by the great depression into the Keynesian. Richard
Re: [Vo]:[VO] : Old Energy New Money
Lets see if I have this straight in my mind.. Bear Stearns is an investment bank.. not a bank, so they cannot borrow money from the Fed. JP Morgan-Chase is a bank.. so JP borrowed 15 bil and change from the NY Fed and loaned it to Bare nekid because it's too big to fail. Translation.. when there is $ 550 trillion dollars in funny money ( derivitives) in play out there in the great game, us good ole boys need to stick together of somebody's gonna thinks wez a bunch of crooks. Richard The USA has operated under the Keynesian economic model since FDR. This model ,as in all pyramid schemes, anticipates a sustained gravy train with biscuit wheels economy where everything purchased yesterday will be paid for in tomorrows dollars well.. err.. until.. there is no tomorrow. Thomas wrote, It's the mother of all pyramid schemes. John Kenneth Galbraith was a student of John Maynard Keynes, and a member of ,That Awful Man in the White House's brain trust. Someone pointed out that his economic ideas wouldn't work in the long run. Galbraith's reply was, in the long run we will all be dead. Galbraith died a few months back, his scheme out lived him. The deterioration of the US economy is following an exponential curve. With the rejection of the US dollar by oil producing countries, this deterioration has now gone into the straight up portion of the curve. It has been prophecized that a new source of energy will emerge in the next 5 months, which will allow America to balance it's trade deficit. Yah, Yah, and my pig plays the flute.
Re: [Vo]:[VO] : Old Energy New Money
Harry Veeder's constitution excerpted... United States Constitution (from wiki) Section 8 The Congress shall have power When the Fed started bailing out private enterprise i.e. public corporations, it's getting beyond scary. Harvard and Wharton business school teach.. get positioned, grab and run. They are taught no one owns GM, whoever runs GM has a liscense to loot. Wall street people are now taught there are NO rules any longer. Our young people have given up on Bush and the government. The young voters will determine the next elected leaders of our nation. What is beyond scary is what they were taught in college, every more what they are teaching their children. Richard
Re: [Vo]:[VO] : Old Energy New Money
I can accept that the business of government is business. What we saw in the Fed this week was betrayal, total, absolute, betrayal of the American people.. up to this point we watched corruption in high places.. but this was total betrayal by leadership in the trust we placed in government. Ben Franklin tried to warn us. What to we say to our faithful employees that depend on us ? We have met a payroll every 15 days for 45 years. They trusted us. Their pensions were to be held in sacred trust. Try explaining this to their wives. All this has come upon us by a corruption of leadership of government. This situation will produce an anger that will result in difficult times beyond anything we have seen in our 80 years. Richard On 15/3/2008 10:37 PM, R C Macaulay wrote: Harvard and Wharton business school teach.. get positioned, grab and run. They are taught no one owns GM, whoever runs GM has a liscense to loot. Wall street people are now taught there are NO rules any longer. the only rule is... don't get caught. ;-) harry
Re: [Vo]:Re: Old Energy New Money
When the democrats take over this fall, they will surely set thing right. Jeff Howdy Jeff, Thanks for your encouraging words. I couldn't seem to figure out why... the US has few actual home repo's on the books.. the actual losses to date are way under what is claimed to be the potential. The fed has already pumped in $ 150 bil to the banks. Sunday papers say the fed will pump another $ 300 bil directly into the large investment banks as done with Bear Stearns. This total of $ 450 bil is far in excess of what actual losse have occcured in the subprime mortage mess. So I got to thinking .. what am I missing ? Shazzam !.. a little bitty news item report on Carylse Capital Company in Zurich. Seems this tiny company, a subsidiary of the mighty Carlyse Group had to borrow 150 mil from their daddy to cover a margin call.. now they have been told to put up more cash to cover another call. WHY??? It seem they were buying sub-primes and then borrowing on the paper.. get this!!! they used the paper for collateral. They used the collateral to borrow 30 times the actual paper face value. These peckerwoods sold the paper THIRTY TIMES. Where did they learns these tricks.?? from the experts.. Now the fed says they needed to keep Bear Stearns from failing. Somebody's rockin' my dreamboat ! Oh ! did I seem to read that GHWB was in Carlyse along with all of Reagan's cronies like Carlucci. the ex defense sec. Jesse James would be embarrassed by the lack of style of these guys... after all.. the bad guy is supposed to use a pistola.. not a pen.. no guts. Richard
[VO]: Not Infallible
Hey Vorts, Just tell the bartender at the Dime Box saloon that we ain't got the money to pay the bar tab... cuz we ain't infallible! London. David Rubenstein, co-founder of the Carlyle Group, pledged Thursday to make amends to investors in a fund that is facing collapse and has ties to his firm. We're working to find ways to help people to deal with losses and maybe recover some capital, Rubenstein said in a telephone interview. The fund, Carlyle Capital, came to the brink of collapse on Thursday after discussions on refinancing failed, prompting a default on its debt. The fund's inability to strike a deal in talks with creditors late on Wednesday, despite help from Rubenstein and the Carlyle Group's strong ties to lenders, sent renewed shudders around global markets. Investors fear that more funds will run into trouble as clients seek withdrawals. I thought we'd work out a way to solve the problem but each of the banks were so worried about their own credit situation, Rubenstein said. The result is not a happy one. Over 20 years we had good investment judgment but we're not infallible. Rubenstein said that the banks recognized this was an unusual situation and he did not expect the fund's collapse to have any repercussion on the Carlyle Group's relationships with the lenders, which include most Wall Street banks. The Carlyle Group shares some investors with the fund, which is run by Carlyle Group executives who also own about 15 percent of the fund, but Carlyle Group does not own any of its assets. Carlyle Capital said Thursday that it expected lenders to take possession of its remaining assets, a portfolio of U.S. residential mortgage-backed securities rated triple-A. If banks are unwilling to lend, then this is the lifeblood of capitalism being restricted, said Justin Urquhart Stewart, co-founder of 7 Investment Management in London. Hedge funds and other weaker operations are being broken like people stepping on twigs. Carlyle Capital's problems also provide a glimpse into the challenges faced by the usually secretive hedge fund industry because it is one of the few that is publicly listed. The situation has also raised questions about the vulnerability of the privately held funds, which disclose little data. Carlyle Capital joins a number of funds that have run into trouble this year after banks hit by write-downs on assets backed by subprime mortgages started to call in loans or asked for better collateral. Among the funds that are struggling, Peloton Partners, a hedge fund in London run by former Goldman Sachs partners, was forced to liquidate its largest funds last month. Thornburg Mortgage, a major American lender, also ran into trouble after it failed to meet some margin calls, and Drake Management in New York said that it might shut its largest hedge fund. Some investors say they believe that attempts by central bankers to inject funds into the banking system may not be enough to revive markets. It's a confidence issue, said Irfan Younus, a banking analyst at NCB Stockbrokers. People are still nervous and banks are reluctant to lend more because they're in the process of deleveraging. Last month, Carlyle Capital was managing $21.7 billion in assets - mostly triple-A rated mortgage debt issued by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Like many of its peers, it had leveraged itself aggressively, borrowing $31 for each dollar of equity, according to its annual report. Lenders include Deutsche Bank, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and JPMorgan Chase. As those investments lost value and banks worried about their debt exposure, creditors demanded that Carlyle Capital put up more and more funds as collateral for the loans. A $150 million credit line from its parent, the Carlyle Group, was not enough to keep it out of trouble. By Wednesday, it had defaulted on about $16.6 billion of debt and some lenders started to liquidate assets. Talks to halt liquidations and revive the fund's finances failed late Wednesday after the value of collateral declined further, prompting an additional $97.5 million in margin calls. The fund's shares, which were first offered in July 2007 and are traded on the Amsterdam Stock Exchange, are now worth 43 cents each, compared with $19 when they started trading last summer. They have dropped more than 90 percent since the company's problems became public last week. In a statement on Wednesday, the Carlyle Group stressed that it had not purchased any of Carlyle Capital's securities and was linked to the fund only by name, the credit line and the fact that about 15 percent of the fund's securities are owned by Carlyle Group employees. The fund is run by John Stomber, a managing director at the Carlyle Group and a former executive at Cerberus Capital Management. 817-grey.gif
Re: [Vo]:Nanosolar efficiency 9-10%, installed cost $3/W
Jones wrote, The best solution for using solar is probably algae (aquaculture). Billions of years of evolution has taught those little buggers a thing or two about converting sunlight into storable energy efficiently. Sure is Jones. Consider a municipal wastewater treatment plant is a liquid fertilizer plant on a massive scale. Biological reduction plants each have their own culture adapted to the plant to improve efficency. Some of these cultures are unbelievable in action, having been carefully nurtured. Major US cities can have several huge plants, some massive, capable of treating a billion gallons of wastewater per day. For some years we have watched this resource going down the toilet. The problem is compounded because the existing treating processes still allows compounds to enter the nation's streams including drugs, hormones etc. Combining treating process with aquaculture makes sense. The most efficent process remains the smaller lagoon systems where ponds are used for cascading the process downhill until the final pond effluent is ready to return to nature. A type of bamboo can grow in this culture at the rate of a foot or more per day. The root systems on these bamboo species are unreal and near perfect filters. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Why Nam?? was]:Goofy photo of Clarke
Howdy Jones, The Viet people are a strange and resourceful lot. We have a Viet by birth engineer with one of our companys. These people defeated the US, the world's superpower, with one hand tied behind their back so it is no surprise they are looking at the LENR website. Strange that many of our old enemies still admire us.. while our allies... well.. err.. May be having second thoughts. Richard - Original Message - From: Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:30 AM Subject: [Vo]:Why Nam?? was]:Goofy photo of Clarke Curious factoid, which can be found further down that page. http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm Under News from 2005 there is a breakdown of the country of origin for hits on the site. The one thing which stands out as an anomaly is the disproportionately large number of hits from Viet Nam. More than from the UK, Canada, and others - Yet - there is not much reported RD coming from there. What gives? - Original Message From: Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I uploaded a goofy but charming photo of Arthur Clarke with his pet Tyrannosaurus rex, here: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm - Jed -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM
[VO]: Call for new Ozone process
Howdy Vorts, As some are aware, one of our companies build water treating and wastewater disinfection chem feed inductors. We have depended on our industry to produce the remainder of the systems including the chemicals for this purpose. We are not chemists or physicists. We need systems that can produce quantities of in situozone gas at a lower cost and safer methods. There are new exotics entering the nation's water supply that we believe can be destroyed via ozone treatment but the existing processes for making ozone are both expensive and troubling. There are Vorts here that have an idea on the subject that may help our industry. Richard
Re: [VO]: Call for new Ozone process
Thanks Esa, Obviously Tesla never built one like the patent drawing or he would have wound up with clean breath and a nitric acid bath. Richard Esa posted. DC PULSES. Nikola Tesla. Apparatus for Production of Ozone http://rpmgt.org/588177.html Howdy Vorts, As some are aware, one of our companies build water treating and wastewater disinfection chem feed inductors. We have depended on our industry to produce the remainder of the systems including the chemicals for this purpose. We are not chemists or physicists. We need systems that can produce quantities of in situozone gas at a lower cost and safer methods. There are new exotics entering the nation's water supply that we believe can be destroyed via ozone treatment but the existing processes for making ozone are both expensive and troubling. There are Vorts here that have an idea on the subject that may help our industry. Richard
Re: [Vo]:[OT]American Power
Howdy Robin, For every million dollars worth of goods produced by a manufacturing company, the firm must have 3 millions in cash to operate. The firm must either own it or borrow it. The US has a market based economy that exceeds 14 trillion dollars per year. That spells 42 trillion in credits, loans, bonds or stocks worth 42 trillion in cash or equivilant float during the year for the USA alone. Add other nations burgeoning enonomic demands for funds and there is simply not enough money to cover all the float. This opened to door to what is described as derivitives and the world now holds some 550 trillion dollars in IOU's. Most of them are worthless but nobody knows which. and nobody cares unless forced to prove a value for one.. which can't be done. An example of how they have evolved into make believe can be learned by studying two recent blowups.. Bear Stearns and Carlyle Capital. The world demand for cash or equal is so great that interest rates on loans to business can be 20% year. An entity puts up 100k in cash to buy a 1 mil bond that pays 10% year.He has his actual cash outlay returned in a year. Since everybody in the investment banking industry was doing it.. so it was ok and besides the govt needs the money to run the Iraq war on credit now exceeding 5 trillion spent. In the case of Bear Stearns and Carlyle Capital.. the guys were NOT even bothering to put up the 100k down on the mil in bonding... they furnished an IOU. Kabloom ! the thing got outa hand and they wound up with 600 billion in paper airplanes that wont fly. Now for a firm with a supposed capital base of some 30 bil ... holding worthless bonds with face value of 600 bil can keep ya awake at night. Are any other investment bankers playing this game?? the question should be .. is there anyone NOT. Carlyle Capital.. a wanna be .. bought some of these worthless bonds and borrowed 31 times their face value in order to loan the money out at super interest rates to businesses desperate for funds to keep their superheated sales going. The fed could have let the bear fall.. except.. err... well.. what's the alternate ?? shut down everything on earth. Richard Robin wrote, This contains some mind boggling numbers:
Re: [Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
Howdy Richard, what makes you think the classical glass tube dielectric barrier discharge ozone production process (which you are using IIRC) can be improved upon, and what's troubling about it? Michel Several things Michel. The demand is increasing, ozone gas is expensive, ozone doesn't store like chlorine so it's made on the job, it's not a universal like liquid bleach. The process is tricky so locating a ozone generator in a wastewater plant using unskilled labor can take years off your life. Richard's solution ?? ask the Vorts, of course. The collection of wisdom in VortexL exceeds even the accumulated brainpower of the Dime Box saloon's scientific advisory panel which includes several ex politicians and busted bankers. The suggestion for using a parabolic reflector for directing the UV lamp output was an example of how this group operates.. good idea. This has led to thinking of why not consider a UV lamp does not have to be shaped like a tube. hmm Our task in this grand scheme is to build a mixer that will mix ozone. We decided the solution was to take a bubble of ozone, place it on a sledge hammer and hit it with another sledge hammer.. shazzaam! instant dissolved ozone. Translated... slice water under presssure at above 125 f/s velocity and the collapse behind will sledgehammer the bubble.. velocity shear. Howdy to you too! Michal. darn if we don't have you talking like a Texan.. what will Germany and France think of you ? Richard
Re: [Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
For pure kill power, ozone has the right stuff, no residual and good reduction properties. Bleach must be destructed after doing it's job.The task is getting ozone in the right place immediately on generation. Like Chlorine gas.. the first 3 seconds holds the kill power. We are looking at shapes of the UV lamp for a method of surrounding the target area in creating the initial gas phase. Everybody in Germany moved to Texas in the 1820's and are still here and speak German like a native. I live in Walhalla.. that's betrween Nechanitz and Rutersville. nearby is Waldeck and Weimar.. across to road from New Ulm and Dubina , which is down the road from Praha ( oops a Czech slipped in) Not to worry, Shiner Texas has the beer plant...The first German settlement in Texas was Industry Texas.near Blieberville and Cat Spring.. Dime Box was a late bloomer town. Richard Michal sez, Producing ozone using UV, why not, that's indeed what the sun does in the upper atmosphere and what makes the sky blue, how does it compare with the DBD method in terms of efficiency and cost? Is ozone a requirement, if not maybe you could produce bleach on the spot. Michel P.S. If I talked like a Texan I wouldn't understand a word of what I say ;-) Germany wouldn't think much of me, haven't been there a lot, nice green place and lots of beer though.
Re: [Vo]:Windturm-Generator - Windtower-Generator
Howdy Thomas, I have followed Everts website for some time. His emphasis is in the differential pressure that is assumed formed by manipulating shapes. His ideas are well conceived but he also admits they are theoritical. As he continues to refine his thoughts on many versions of this differential theme, I become more interested.. to the point of setting up design and actually maching a test shape. He has a thought that under operation that certain devices may actually begin to operate on the differential pressure induced to the point they may become self sustaining... I avoid the use of the word free energy. He has actually examples of some of his machines built by a German firm. a take off of the Griggs theme. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Land and food
Howdy Jed, Few around Houston can imagine the area was once prime farm land first cultivated by German immigrants with truck farms delivering fresh vegetables daily. By 1900, rice farming was underway with Japanese immigrants. By the end of WW2 Rice was a super crop exported across the world. These huge rice fields stretching from Beaumont across to Victoria but are now reduced to a small percentage of earlier times. The subdivision expansion of single dwelling homes continues and entirely cover some of the best rice farm land in the world. Combined with this huge land area some 250x 100 miles is one of the world's most prolific fresh water aquifers on earth. The Gulf Coast acquifer. This acquifer was the reason why Houston developed into the petrochem complex it is today. Few places on earth have such an huge quanity of fresh water available. The industries now have available the coastal industrial water authority which canals water from the Trinity River and comsumes some one billion gallons per day from that source plus the acquifer. Land has subsided as much as 14 feet in parts of Harris and surrounding counties from excess pumping. Land subsidence is now measurable as far north as Fayette county( my home). Not to worry.. the petrochem industry has one of the strongest lobbying efforts in the nation that protects their right to almost free and unlimited water and a liscense to pollute at will. The profits are so huge that Shell resorted to some very creative bookkeeping to show a loss 2 years back. How??. They wrote down their estimate of holding of crude reserves, fired their manager and held out their hand to IRS. Our two US senator wept tears while supporting their pauper's claim.. nowhere but Texas. Richard Richard Jed wrote, During the past 40 years, about 30 percent of the world's arable land has been lost (Pimentel et al., 1995). Current agricultural practices create considerable topsoil erosion. Its severity depends on the particular crops planted, methods of culture and management, topography, rainfall and wind, and other factors (Pimentel et al., 1987; Lai and Pierce, 1991). Worldwide, erosion and its associated problems force the abandonment of 7 (Tolba, 1989) to 15 million (Pimentel, 1993) ha of land each year. This problem is also severe in the United States. For example, Iowa, which has some of the best soil in the world, has lost half of its topsoil after being farmed for about 100 years (Risser, 1981).
[VO]: O6 ? How to detect
Howdy Vorts, Another ozone question .. if O6 is present , is there a double check to make certain it's O6 ? Richard
[VO]: Next Energy News
Howdy Vorts, Another link.. http://www.nextenergynews.com/ Richard
Re: [Vo]:The Kanzius - Chlorine connection
Howdy Jones, In my files under chlorine and salt water anomalies, I keep your posts on this subject. For some years we have puzzled over some of the (return for repair) chlorine gas vacuum induction feeder mixers installed at Los Angeles and certain other US locations always adjacent to oceans. Some salt water can be present in the effluent. The units show severe cavitation pitting on certain areas of the high speed rotating member. This member is made of UHMW ultrahigh molecular weight poly and under NO circumstances should it pit. Of interest is that the pitting does not show as a typical cavition type erosion as seen on centrifugal pump impellers which rots the bronze. The pits on the UHMW appear to be spike shaped formed from a hot needle shot into the plastic. Hmmm Richard Jones wrote, From the above, if that scenario happened often enough, we would expect a strong anomaly in excess heat, and resulting overunity. This reaction has not been documented to be anything but conservative, however. The most likely reason for the present situation is the lack of easy penetration or propagation of RF through salt water.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
Howdy Jones, Notice buried deep in the CNN article is a remark by Kertz.. regarding their search for new forms of algae Intriguing details like that keep Kertz and other scientists searching for more and different algae. While dusty west Texas may not be the best hunting grounds, he said he is always on the lookout for samples in puddles, streams or ponds. This was the method used by the developers of the Medina soil activator. Railroad worker traveling across the southern Arizona desert notice certain small ponds had a prolific growth after a rainfall. Taking samples of the algae+ back to Medina Texas, he cultivated a stimulator. Not to worry.. after all these years and fields of high yield sorgum produced from spraying the activator has yet to interest the D of A. Richard Jones wrote, http://tinyurl.com/2t2de3
[VO]: OT: Numbers and cucumbers
Howdy Vorts, Ever get the feeling the govmnet may be stretching the truth about subprime mortgage actual losses. Do the math of actual true losses to the banking and lending industry on foreclosures. Using Detroit as an example,, figures reported show 10,000 homes were in the loop last quarter for foreclosing.. figure the actual loss to the lender equates 150k per home.. that's 1.5 bil loss. Multiply that figure across the nation and an estimate of under 300 bil can be a reasonable combined loss to all lending agencies. The actual loss is far below that estimate because of the asset value is tangible. So far the Fed has pumped nearly one trillion into saving the economy, plus lower the interest rates which adjust to some 2.3 trillion alone. All blamed on the subprime mess.. it ain't true! Where did the money go? The losses claimed by news reports DO NOT ADD UP. Looking at Bear Stearns , we learn that money people were borrowing 90% of stock value to buy stocks and securities. Some reports indicate the fast buck guys were putting up 1 mil to finance a bil in stock purchases. making a killing on the spread and repeating the process.. margin calls put the speculators in real jeapardy and as the pyramid began to topple, people like Bear Stearns wound up with some 500 billion in unrecovered loans outstanding and stock prices plummeting when the Dow dropped from 14 to 12. Anyway you figure there was some 5-25 trillion losses with a 2000 point Dow spread. This is where the losses are and not the subprime.. sumbuddys blowing smoke and it's name is chairman budinski. Turning the SEC over to the Fed is tantamount to the fox guarding the henhouse.. or letting the Houston welfare office keep their own books. Meanwhile back at the ranch, our employees are enrolled in a supposed annuity plan developed by Fortis Benefit Guaranty Corp.. well.. err.. it seems this was gerramandered into a sorta 401 k instead of a annuity insurance when Fortis went to Holland and sold the pig to Hartford Insurance, and now to Edward Jones.. and its keyed to the mutuals. A simple statement on actual worth of a typical annuity with contributions of 2,000.00 per year ( the company forks over the money) now looks like the us dollar vs the Euro. And the solution offered by the US govment.. lets combine and put everything under the Fed, a private business owned by 12 banks.. well used to be US banks but.. The reason?? because the Fed has demonstrated thier ability to think above the problem.. which to Texans mean throw enough money at the problem to create a bigger problem and forget the first. Richard
Re: [Vo]:O3 via GaN UV LEDs
Thanks for the tip Charles, we are interested. The idea of an array of LEDs meets one ot the design themes for encompassing a vortex without disturbing the physics behind it. We have been testing some spiral shapes in the form of thin gauge spiral wire springs that hold the possibility of avoiding upsetting the vortex while being located within. Thinking about tiny arrays of LED tuned to UV spectrum give me a thrill. A cheap power LED array engineered to shine at 285 nm UV would get part way to making O3 in situ referring to earlier discussion. GaN may be the appropriate LED material. Aloha, Charlie -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1357 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 10:48 AM
[VO]: Re: Ben Ladin Trades
Howdy Vorts. As a 12 year old kid, I went to the carnival and got suckered by the guy with the 3 walnut shells and the pea. 2 bits a guess what shell the pea was under.. 2 bucks later I stopped playing cuz I figured out the pea was being palmed in the crook of the guy's little finger. So.. what if .. the ben ladin trades were simply a variation of the ole shell game' ... plus a little innovation using the magicians sparkler waving in front of your face. The stock market has been :made to bounce a few hundred points every couple days.. but.. the trend is down from the highs. Somebody can make some real money on the spread,,, provided they have a ringer in the audience like an auctioneer. A perfect ringer can be a false flag created by a ben ladin type trade. Somebody out there has a deck of marked cards. They may be same guys behind the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. Please don't blow smoke by trying to tell me the Fed doesn't know who executed the ben ladin trades and they can't stop them. Had a younger CPA friend tell me the other day he was getting out of one of the huge big 4 accounting firms cuz these firms were gonna be the designated fall guys like Arthur Anderson with Enron. The next day I read KPMG was being investigated. The Fed has developed the habit of falling on their back and speading their legs way to soon for me. But like the Carnival slick that took my 2 bucks said.. don't ever play the other man's game and never dance to the other gals tune. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Where's the beef? was: Stupid Academic stunt
Howdy Vorts, What am I missing in regards to BLP ? Our tiny company budgets $ 350,000. per year in research. No matter how great the idea, if we don't see something happen in two years.. bye bye idea based on the simple premise that a blind hog can root up an acorn every once in awhile.. BUT.. 19 years ? People that can actually do it.. DO IT. Sure hope Mike don't hold any BLP stock Richard --- Mike Carrell wrote: As I dig into the new material on the BLP website, it looks as Mills is finally positioned for commercial development. His 'solid' fuel when heated releases H and K3+ Here is a picture of such a solid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_hydroxide Which is almost as much real information as is apparent on these new pages. Surely you have head something beyond what appears on the web site, no? The only thing which leaves the impression that BLP has moved beyond 19 years of vaporware so to speak, is what we can 'read into' the sparseness and line drawings. Given that there is a picture of a cylindrical reactor, which BTW is far less impressive that past pictures of reverse gyrotrons and Capstone turbines- surely there must be data and results beyond this, which you are privy to ? Hardly 'due diligence' ;-) Can you name any independent licensee of the energy technology who is investing enough money to move towards a real prototype? Jones
Re: [Vo]:Where's the beef? was: Stupid Academic stunt
Thomas wrote, However, presently, since there are no apparent working prototypes What is beyond dispute is that BLP has spent a lot of money.. Howdy Thomas, Well.. err.. let's observe it was BLP that spent a lot of AEI et al's money. Back in the late '50's I invested in a deal like this.. took me two years to finally get the notion I bought a pig in the poke. Ole story of the East Texas coon dog that had romance on his mind but 'nery a female dog in Crocket county he noticed a pretty girl skunk started looking better every night.. so one time he gave it a try.. and after.. he told her.. I'll admit it was fun while it lasted... but.. whew! I've had about all of this I can take. Some catch the smell on the fly, some get a good wiff as they get together.. and some have no nose for it. For sure Herb Kellerer with Southwest Airlines had a clothspin on his nose as he listened at the Congressional hearing and watched the FAA guy testify in tears about how he was threatened into silence. Ole Herb must have smelled that skunk as he likely wondered about flight 800 and the job the FAA did on the investigation,, no tears that time.. still no tears.. but.. if you ever run over a skunk ya better not park yur car in the garage for awhile. Richard
Re: [Vo]:re: dumb academic stunt
Frank Z wrote, I asked him about the former CEO of Westinghouse being at BlackLight. Perhops I will find out something. Howdy Frank, Westinghouse had talent and people knee deep back until the early '70's .. so,, they dumped the brains for tricks and tried to corner the market for enriched uranium. Poof ! ...went Westinghouse's cards. Same happened to Bear Stearns.. fast money, fast markets, fast fall. But when yur playing poker with sumbuddy else's money.. who cares. Richard
[VO]: Blowing smoke in the wind
Howdy Vorts, The Houston Chronicle article today kinda disputes claims regarding the idea of using windmills. The power produced ain't worth the power to produce without heavy subsidies. Also reports that a norther blew in one day and the wind farm output dropped so low that it upset the grid and almost caused a major blackout. Some third of the big mills are down for repairs at any one time. Nobody has reliable figures on real operating cost cuz the whole business is sorta off the books.. well... kinda.. Algorish sorta accounting. After all , it's green ..ain't it ? Our local area electric co-op advertizes wind power as an option for a coupla cents more per willowatt. That's what the Dime Box saloon describes green energy as.. willowatts. The whole wind energy business is so convoluted with politics and tax tricks that it's starting to resemble the DoE. You know.. the outfit that awarded a contract to Lockheed for an advanced design warplane for some 138 billion bucks and have zilch to show for their money so far... but not to worry.. the Marine heliocopter deal for 38 choppers for the white house fits the pattern.. megabucks spent and no choppers yet. Hey ! bartender !! slide one down the bar to Jed.. he has a perplexed look on his face.. musta been something he read about BLP. Richard Jed mentioned this link, Move Over, Oil, There's Money in Texas Wind http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/business/23wind.html
Re: [Vo]:Fracture drilling and the N word
Quien sabe? Jones At the end of the day the solution to the supply of energy will be based on cost. Allow the price of fuel to rise to prohibitive use and viola! , amount consumed falls. We will see gas and diesel retail prices rise ( above and beyond the shrinking dollar) as a function of this strategy. The same has already happening in strategic minerals and exotic metals. A variation of this strategy is now beginning to work with the illegal worker in the US. The game plan is now to punish the employer. Selective raids on key job providers work because the word gets around quick. Jail time, confiscation and heavy fines for firms that employ non documented workers is beginning to have a major impact. Notice the sudden silence by our politicios on the subject of illegal immigration... that means the strategy is working. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Recent Papers Update
Thanks Steven, I appreciate the method used to format the updates. It makes it easy to transmit to persons of interest. Richard Recent Papers Update http://newenergytimes.com/Reports/SelectedPapers.htm Meeting Report Srinivasan, M., Energy concepts for the 21st century, Current Science, Vol. 94, No. 7, p. 842-843 (April 10, 2008) Review Paper Krivit, S.B. Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Research - Global Scenario, Current Science, Vol. 94, No. 7, p. 854-857 (April 10, 2008)
Re: [Vo]:Energy Conversation announcement
Howdy Jed, Todd Hathaway is listed which may mean an affiliation with the Maryland group that has organized to delve into funding energy research as discussed in past posts on vortex. Richard - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Energy Conversation announcement I don't know anything about this Energy Conversation other than what is in the announcement and web site. It does not seem like a very professional organization, since they misspelled Alexandria. - Jed -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM
Re: [Vo]:Fracture drilling and the N word
Howdy Jones, My ! ,What big eyes you got grandma.. as little red said to the big badwolf. Last week a 3.5 earthquake occurred, located 1,5 miles deep near Falls City Texas, just south of San Antonio. The news reported it likely resulted from oil and gas production in the area... hmmm. The geology around Falls City is interesting to say the least. Domestic water wells produce 130F water. A type of geology belt traversing from East TexasKilgore to Laredo some 50 miles wide sweep across Falls City. Lignite coal, gas, oil. H2S, CO2 and Yellow Cake are produced along and within this belt. For years Halliburton was known for it's fracturing services. They started in Duncan Okla servicing Phillips and wound up in Dubai as a strange hybrid oil and gas/ defense contractor/ black ops/ go between with an uncanny ability to morph. Dick Chaney was right at home running them outa Dallas.. maybe he got his ques and best material from watching the sitcom where the script is only for the gripper. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Fracture drilling and the N word
Howdy Jones, KBR ( Kellogg/Brown and Root) was once two respected engineering constructors. MW Kellogg started along with Bechtel, Kaiser and boys building the Hoover dam . Brown Root started in Texas as a road builder and grew and grew.. closely connected to Texas politics ( LBJ) That's how business was done.. but.. they never confused politics with getting the job done.. BR and Kellogg were once great companies. Back in the 50's I worked with many of their engineers.. super people. same for Kellogg. It wasn't until after LBJ and the Browns passed on that they forgot who they were and what they did best.. They bought a pig with the baggage carried by acquiring the rights to be sued by the asbestos lawyers. Probably why they turned rogue.. it happens. Richard --- R C Macaulay wrote: Halliburton ... wound up in Dubai as a strange hybrid oil and gas/ defense contractor/ black ops/ go between with an uncanny ability to morph. Speaking of morphing - or maybe it is more like shedding some ugly stinkin' fat, they just unloaded (at least they did it for 'show' i.e. - on the public record) one of their biggest black ops moneymakers: KBR http://danmuji.ddart.net/science/physics/physics_tutorial/Class/sound/U11L5d.html Kellogg Brown Root, was a subsidiary of Halliburton until 2007, when bad publicity and civil and possible criminal indictments forced Halliburton to sell. IOW they did not want to follow KBR into bankruptcy when some 'liberal' jury awards one of the plaintiffs more than the net worth of the company - and that could happen. Another reason why Dubai is a highly favorable locale for the now slimmed-down version of Halliburton. According to the site above, KBR financed Lyndon Johnson from the 1940s and into the Vice Presidential position, was rewarded after Kennedy's assassination with lucrative contracts in the escalated Vietnam War. Given the sleaze with which they have operated since the sixties, and most recently in Iraq, it causes one to wonder, was KBR actually involved in the JFK assassination? I have never heard that possibility suggested, even from the nuttiest Conspiracy Theorists, but has it been ruled out? Jones -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM
Re: [Vo]:Re: Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
Howdy Jones, Just returned from a reunion meet for ex members of the state water planning group where I listened to some interesting arguments for algae to bio-fuel production from sewage plants. Never can happen because it would involve a municipal public function and an atmosphere generated in a public arena is impossible to accomplish anything.. bio-fuels will have to originate from the private sector. I did e-mail Kertz and offer to ship no charge some sample algae from area plants and certain natural aggressive algae seeps in the area. No surprise I didn't receive a response.. must be busy entertaining the Vancouver Loop. Thats what we call the Canadian version of Bear Stearns. Kinda a shame because he has part of the theme to a very good idea for algae production. Just needs to think inclined plain rather than vertical zip lock baggies.The maintenance and cost of the baggies will eat him alive. A plant as he proposes has self limiting capabilities. To supply demand we need some 19 MBD of finished fuel. It could be done if a west Texas county now assigned nuke waste could be adapted for both nuke waste and bio stock algae raw materials production using humongous lagoon systems.. naw., makes too much sense. hehe, maybe W would donate his Crawford Texas ranch and go live in the presidentail library to be built at SMU Dallas like his daddy has at Texas AM, or maybe UT would rent him a room at the LJB presidential library in Austin. Texas will soon have 3 of these libraries.. seems a waste, cuz kids don't read now they have I pods and Blackberries. Richard Jones wrote, a major point not yet made is to remember that Kertz's algae produce 50% oil and almost 50% protein (food), so if the efficiency is 35% for the oil - it is 70% for the net biomass, and the food may be just as important as the oil to the third world. This is especially true since corn is being used to make ethanol and is comparatively low in protein anyway. Well that is surely wildly optimistic. Kertz's technique appears to be between 25-30% efficient for the oil, which is half of the biomass. That is: if we could believe that the numbers presented by him are fully accurate, and also fully scalable to many acres, and fairly robust, weather-proof, etc? This would actually reconcile his numbers with those already published by others which claim that Algae conversion efficiency can go up to 50% of the solar energy. It should be noted that there are also far lower figures than that in the older literature. And even so, it would be 50% for the total biomass *on a best case scenario* of which half may be lipids. One should then discount that number by the usual factors which almost always make complicated processes come-out to be less efficient than the best case scenario- but also realizing that here, the best possible bio-engineered scum has probably not yet been found or hybridized. If there was ever a good place for genetic engineering to be put to good use, this would seem to be it. Bottom line: even if Kertz is off on the high side by 100%- the system is better than anything else which has such an advantageous ecological footprint. Even wind energy does not actively remove CO2- plus as mentioned, there is little reason that the algae site cannot share its required land with windmills. I've never been to a desert that wasn't windy.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
Howdy Jones, We have an ideal site for an bio plant as you described. Alcoa-Rockdale , just northeast of Austin Texas. 60,000 acres, old lignite strip mine and electricpower gen plant. Alcoa wants to decommission it. By the looks of Alcoa performance on Wall St. Its surprising one of their thinkers ( if any are left) hasn't thought about using the site for such,,, in the long run they would make a better return on bio fuel,, considering that bauxite is in the sights of Hugo Chavez et al. Locally, we also have LCRA plant near Bastrop that mines lignite onsite, LCRA is owned by the state of Texas. Alcoa would be the ideal candidate.. If I had a prepared brief on your and Horace study, I would see it got in the right hands at Alcoa.. via a friend at TWDB the state water board that has environmental oversite at Alcoa and remains on theiur case for polluting the neighborhood.. thus Alcoa's empty threat of abandoning the Rocjdale plant.. put in during WW2 for aluminum defense .. in other words, the darn plant was bought and paid for by Uncle Sam. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Sargassum for ethanol experimented in Taiwan
Howdy Jones, The nation is absolutely overloaded with technology but getting the bits and pieces fitted together takes teamwork which is an absentee to the equation. The wine, vinegar and beer brewers alone have some adanced tech tricks they could add.. plus the petro refiners have a whole slice of the puzzle already solved.. Speaking of brew.. ever wonder when a glass jar of preserved home made corn explodes.. there may be more than fermentation involved. If one goes off.. the whole shelf follows in sequence... hmm.. strange. Richard Jones wrote, At any rate, this and other rapidly evolving RD shows that new methods are out there, which can be tailored to needs, and are ready to provide increased renewable energy from biomass over what has been the traditional approach and expectation.
Re: [Vo]:CNN video of Vertigro algae factory
Howdy Jones, The ole Pelton bucket did have a few surprises to offer using the jet features Richard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelton_wheel
Re: [Vo]:Cavitation Weapon
Howdy David, We have water test tank observations of vortexes shedding off the main vortex and traveling distances. These compact spirals are similar to the vid pics of the claw produced shot that travels in a spiral projectile toward the shrimp. Notice the shape of the claw is parabolic and collapses into a parabola. This vid has given us a clue to a how to run ahigh speed parabolic shape inside another parabolic shroud to attempt to reproduce the effect. Richard David wrote, I was amazed that the cavitation effect would travel a distance and have an effect. OTOH, various researchers have sited this effect as a method of inducing LENR's. I would assume that the Office of Naval Research has looked into this. Be strict. There is no cavitation at a distance, only locally at the claw. The wave or flow produced is similar to the von Zeipel fluid motion or the vortex toys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_ring_toys David
Re: [Vo]:On loss or gain of energy in presure volume work in solids with varying temperature
Sure David, Using the example of a piece of copper rod at ambient temperature, Rapidly bend the rod and it gets hot at the bend. The more rapid the bend, the hotter it gets. No inconsistency unless you wish to rewrite thermo.. which some brainiac should do soon before we tumble. Richard David wrote, I have an idea about what this is all about http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0508107 The authors talk about inconsistency but my understanding is that it explains two well known phenomena in everyday life. I want to hear what you say before I say more. Can anyone conclude what the two phenomena are?
Re: [Vo]:Re: Eye of the Gyre
Howdy Michel, I wouldn't want to be suspended way out there on a guywire when a catagory 5 hurricane comes visiting. Richard Michel wrote, Even better, let's close the loop! Instead of far away (e.g. Azores) seeding, we could use a second sea line (underwater pipeline) to reject seeds, process residues with fertilizing value, and any additional fertilizer, from the processing station (e.g. Bermuda, or a floating platform not unlike a deep sea oil platform) to a nearby seeding point which will ensure a complete spiral orbit of the crop. In the case of the NA gyre this would be some point between the US Atlantic coast and Bermuda, or even on the US coast, or even on the Bermuda coast. The processing station would be advantageously somewhere between, or at any extremity of a straight line between the harvesting point (the Eye) and the seeding point... What do you think, fellow Gyre Farming enthusiasts? Michel
Re: [Vo]:The (possible) oil peak rolls on
The difficulty in understanding the stock market has it root in not recognizing exactly what it is. The stock market is a legal form of gambling. It IS the great game ! Of the gambling casino parlours in the great game.. commodities are the roulette tables. The players at this table operate similar to a duck hunter pulling the trigger today at a duck that will fly over months from now, hoping the duck will fly into the shot pattern. The original purpose of this parlour was to provide a way for farmers to insure next year's crop, or any commodity against sudden drop in market price below the cost of production. Oil speculators turned the crude oil market into a whore's market some 20 years ago when they begin trading crude futures. China got into the game 2 years ago by buying up strategic metals and stuff and such. Few can grasp they may actually be holding food grains commodity futures hostage. Wall Street is a private club where membership costs real money and the game is controlled by the house. A share of stock.. any stock is only worth what you can sell it for. It used to have some relationship with a company's net worth and/or assets and keyed to the dividend paid each year. NO MORE.. few dividends are paid out anymore and the value to the owner of a share is based on anticipating a share will rise like WalMart did. 25 years ago or a Google share. In today's world a share has a inverse relationship to the big buyers of stocks and bonds.. who are they?? pension trusts, insurance and banking.. but the largest holders of stocks and bonds are the shadows people of the hedge and derivitive outerworld ( similar to the underworld except no laws are ever made against the shadows) Little money received from an IPO actually goes into a capital account since it's another parlour in the great game and the money goes to the promotors in the form of both appreciation of share price and share set asides for founders. It comes as a great shock for Joe citizen to read an actual PL statement ( nearly impossile to fathom) to learn that a publically held stock corporation is in debt up to their eyeballs from the sale of BONDS , not common stock. It is possible for a corporation to survive for years without ever showing a profit.. just sell more stock and issue more bonds. Example.. Krispy Kreme, Starbucks, Home Depot, Lowes. What really surprises many is WalMart. Never to ever give a sucker an even break.. GE is the biggest , richest corporation on earth and a look see into many large corporate structures show a few ex-GE cadre .. like Home Depot.. ever wonder why?? GE morphed from a manufacturer under Jack Welch into a strange new capital corporation. Their fingerprints and DNA are across the world and behind the China trade and WalMart. Consider Goldman-Sachs and Merrill-Lynch.. when the 1st qtr 2008 reports were due.. speculation was G-S and M-L and Citi-Bank would look like Bear-Stearns on paper but the guys that print the paper can put anything on the paper they wish and BINGO.. G-S et al came up smellling like roses while Bear Stearns wound up in the tank and fished out by JPMorgan. Hmmm.. Now the plot thickens and the really serious poker players are placing their bets. It's sorta amusing when ya think about it It's all monolopy money to them since they print what they need. The world's greatest game of all .. If you're big enough, tough enough, smart enough to buy into the game.. they don't squeeze you out.. but invite you in.. unless.. unless .. you don't play the game by the rules.. OR.. they make an example of you.. like Enron.. go straight to jail and do not pass go... occasionally one of the players must be reprimanded , like Bear Stearns.. and gets a get outa jail free card but forfeits his cards for the hand. After all... one cannot be a gentleman and cheat at cards in the great game. So if Edmund Storms has difficulty reading the face cards.. it's because he is a scientist and not a stockbroker. Never play the other man's game. Fun stuff.. all that money and never enough.. ole Solomon lived the life too and wrote an amazing book on the subject in his later life. The poor simp chased his tail and tail to no avail .. grin Richard
Re: [Vo]:The (possible) oil peak rolls on
Andreas wrote, If I buy oil in SEK or Euro the oil prices has almost stood still... So are oil prices really climbing or is the dollar falling? Howdy Andreas, You peeked ! One must understand that in order to enjoy watching the Wizard of Oz, one must accept the rules of the game... do not look behind the curtain or the wizard will be exposed, That is like a novice being invited to sit in at a game of monopoly.. It must be explained to the novice that the play money is real or the game holds neither virtue nor advantage. Think about the Federal Reserve system. If we didn't have it, we would need to invent it. Problem is as always, people get fat and lazy with riches. The Fed was only designed to survive a single generation, after that who cares. However , the first law of the Dime Box saloon's professor of the P.T.Barnum distinguished chair of financial theories is based on proven evidence that .. the strong take it away from the weak and the smart take it away from the strong. Those poor dumb Chinamen never should have let Marco Polo past the gate of the great wall cuz when Marco came back with the formula for pasta... well..that got the Mafia started and Marco opened his first internet spagetti house fronted by a gangster named Robin, as in Robin Hood.. conspiracy theorists link Marco and Robin.. why not? no self respecting robber would be dumb enough to share with the poor, just ask ole Mugabe down at the hood. Gosh ! Andreas , didn't yo mamma teach you nuthin, Richard
Re: [Vo]:the decline of cold fusion
All science research is cumulative and stimulates the imagination. There are ongoing studies and adjacent research. I choose to believe that Dr.Ron Stiffler has the energy and drive to open a few doors with his experiments. May even find something he wasn't looking for.. this often happens to the dedicated scientist. Richard
Fw: [Vo]:The principle of the conservation of energy is farce, corrected
It's kinda funny that scientists spend so much time in theory and musing when they have the book to go by. Frank makes reference to vibration frequency. That sounds like sound.. The bible state that God said... let there be light. This is sound, vibration or whatever you choose to call it. It also makes reference to the music of the stars. This sounds like thare is a system that uses sound to keep the universe in calibration. The book of Genesis and the book of Job remain the best scientific reference textbooks on the subject of physics. Richard - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 3:34 PM Subject: [Vo]:The principle of the conservation of energy is farce, corrected The principle of the conservation of energy is not fundamental. The common belief in it is a farce. The positive energy of the universe is balanced by its negative gravitational potential. An interplay of transient interactions would holds the energy of a new system constant until the gravitational field has the opportunity to propagate to the ends of the universe. The energy contained by new mass-energy is balanced by its negative gravitational potential. So what then is preventing the production of something from nothing? Such new mass would have to conserve angular momentum. This could be done by ejecting photons (or phonons ) of opposite spins from a system. Everything that is not excluded by our conservation laws should happen. Why don’t we see this? The answer comes from the study of the path of the quantum transition. Quantum transitions occur at a dimensional frequency of one megahertz-meter. The electron spins a dimensional frequency of one megahertz meter. The spin is coupled and canceled in a Cooper pair. No residual of megahertz meter vibration remains. The paired elections do not interact with the lattice. They cannot, such an interaction is a quantum transition. Transitions do not occur when the amplidude of vibration at the dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz meters is zero. Superconductivity results. The spontaneous ejection of two phonons does not take place because there is no megahertz meter stimulation in the paired system. A quantum transtion cannot progress. The secret of producing something from nothing is to add vibration at the dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters. The best place to do this is in a condensation of protons. Angular momentum is measured from another reference frame. In the single bodied early universe the concept of the conservation of angular momentum did not apply.That's how the original genesis progressed. The principle of the conservation of energy had nothing to do with it. Frank Znidarsic Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions More! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1389 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 8:34 AM
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC A friend without health insurance
Howdy Vorts, A Medivac chopper cost 15k to transport a patient 100 miles. Look around at the medical industry and notice the never ending construction of medical facilities on a huge scale. These new hospital facilities represent a new industry of unprecedented scope and costs. There is no expense spared in treating a patient and the equipment, supplies and services are so advanced that it requires skilled workers to operate simple devices. The record keeping for drugs,procedures, insurance and liability costs alone is beyond the scope of any other industry. Like the stock market and social security, the medical system is unsustainable. Most societies collapse, not from lack of planning, but from the lack of understanding the principle of the laws of human nature. The desire to stay alive. There is real money in feeding this desire... well.. err.. until.. the money runs out.. then it's every man for himself... the poor dumb saps left in Berlin after WW2 must have had some difficulty reconciling exactly what happened. However, as in Paris and London, they rose again... along with the Euro.. In the USA, we have a strangely connected atmosphere like Europe and Japan after WW2. Not caused by bombed out cities but by affluence. Moscow is another strangely connected atmosphere.. caused not by bombed out cities nor affluence.. but by criminal minds running government. The USA is now entering a triad of the above events in a strangely connected way. Richard Jeff Fink wrote: If you think health care is expensive now, just wait till it's free. Bush correctly pointed out that anyone in the U.S., even an uninsured poor person, can get healthcare at an emergency room, just as my friend did. He did not say that after a few days in the hospital you will be billed more than your net worth, and then hounded by bill collectors until they run you out of house and home. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:How many volcanoes would it take...
Howdy Jeff, Same here in Texas. Before 1870 range prairie grass fires could sweep across whole counties that acted to prevent forests from gaining a foot hold. Interesting arguments for and against greenhouse effect. Al Gore and Rush Limburger cheese et al should both be proud of their ability to keep the CO2 gas balloon in the air for so long before it becomes obvious that a parallel exists.. similar to two divorce lawyers. There is money in keeping the bickering going. Meanwhile back at the ranch the whole place winds up broke and knee deep in cockle burrs and Bushes. At some point the problem becomes insoluable.. unless.. well.. err.. some kid playing with matches... Richard Jeff wrote, I came across a study a few years ago that showed that the US presently has more forested land than it did in the year 1900. My personal observation verifies that. The fields around the house I grew up in, and the house I have live in now (33 yrs.) have all grown over with forest. Historical photos of the Berks county Pennsylvania area of 1900 vintage show surprising areas of cultivation that are now forest.
Re: [Vo]:Running-on .... trioxide ?
Howdy Jones, One must be prepared both physically and mentally to engage a Jones moment. Thanks for the trioxide links. Interesting I received an e-mail directing me to a link on a mystery series of explosions. http://wjz.com:80/local/baltimore.county.mystery.2.710503.html I must consider that college science students have far greater access to new research and technology than I, way back in the stone age. I kept my old physics freshman textbook in my library at the Dime Box saloon to remind me times have changed. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Running-on .... trioxide ?
Howdy Terry, Physics, a textbook for colleges .. Stewart...Ginn and company In todays world, probably suitable for 2nd graders that don't have computers. Richard - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Running-on trioxide ? On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:23 PM, R C Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I kept my old physics freshman textbook in my library at the Dime Box saloon to remind me times have changed. That wouldn't happen to be Haliday and Resnick (sp)? Terry -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1411 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 8:02 AM
Re: [Vo]:Fresnel focused solar
Howdy Jones, Looks like Sun-glitch has figured out a way to use seal beam headlamps for solar concentrators.. probably be lotsa old cars with empty tanks missing headlights it these guys can get off the ground. Vancouver has become the rival of Las Vegas for creating a whole new industry of IPO pump and dump. If I were running the Las Vegas C of C , I'd complain of unfair tactics..after all .. Las Vegas has a name to protect. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Fresnel focused solar
Howdy Mike, This firm, Solargenix was owned by Duke Energy and now owned by a Spanish consortium. They are marketing their electric power producing system across the world and putting some very interesting contracts together. One of their secrets is keeping the cost of operations low.. that means labor and unattended stations. The Spanish have a goal to search out stable and long term revenue streams ( Ma Bell at it's finest) Another example is the Spanish entree into toll roads. Cintra of Spain has made inroads both in Canada and the USA. Masters at both politics and money management, these Spanish consortiums are on the move. The world is awash in money searching for investments. GE was a world leader in these type financial strategies.. what happened to GE?? This generation of GE leadership was taken over. The scary part is that an entire financial seesaw can now tilt in a very short period of time whereas it took the barons of Wall Street more than a 100 years to position the USA to lead the world of capital... Yet, suddenly, In two presidential terms of office by Clinton and Bush.. Poof! Leads me to think that LENR is a victim of indifference greater than ignorance and opposition combined. Richard http://www.eere.energy.gov/news/news_detail.cfm/news_id=9723 http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=44696 Mike Carroll wrote, The higher the concentration, the more accuracy required in the sun tracker. An eqitorial mount, where the rotation axis is parallel to the earth's axis at the installation location, is a good start. However, as the seasons progress, the sun's elevatiion changes, so the tracker must operated in three axes. If you want to place the array on an arbitraily placed roof, it gets more complicated. All can be solved and cheap computers can do the job, but it does get complicated and is a non-neglible cost to the approach.
Re: [Vo]:Question regarding basic solid mechanics and one directional applied stress
Howdy David, A brain teaser question. The answer is yes if you accept that expansion and contraction actually occurs depending on the materials of the cylinder. Mention of the cylinder being solid presents another teaser. Certain solids react to being stressed. Predictive science of materials is become the cutting edge technology whereas in the past we used empirical tests alone. LIke non-invasive quality control tests, predictive science is what the Russians face in discovering what is happening with their Soyuv space capsule re-entry problems. You may be working on that task so I wish you well. You may set up a testing method of proving that the stress caculated is indeed negative by building a sorta makeshift air comparison picnometer of a version used for density measurement of dry drilling mud. Fun stuff. Richard - Original Message - From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:36 PM Subject: [Vo]:Question regarding basic solid mechanics and one directional applied stress Hi If I put a wheight on a vertical cylinder it will be shortened and its radius will be somewhat increased. I wonder if the radial increase is considered a negative stress in radial direction? Is the stress tensor something like this? -a 0 0 T= 0 0 0 0 0 b Where a and b are positive values and the coordinates are cylindrical ρ, φ, z (ISO 31-11). David -- David Jonsson Sweden phone callto:+46703000370 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM
Re: [Vo]:Stationary Fresnel Array (Hybrid)
Howdy Jones, I was surprised that no one picked up on my comment regarding sealed beam headlamps. The technology, the manufacturing process and the materials are available except for the element for use as a solar collector. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Question regarding basic solid mechanics and one directional applied stress
Howdy David, I don't know the answer. Are we discussing earth science and soil mechanics separate from solid mechanics? Nobody knows earth science except geologists and Al Gore and they know it all. Just ask one of them. Soil mechanics is a less than exact science and the approach you have toward examining the stresses based on temperature may lead you astray. Sound interesting. Some astute geologists at Houston Texas may have more information . You may try the University of Houston since they are near to the center of the geologists in the petro business. Years ago I was did some work on gas measurement in west Texas involving CO2 icing together with a witches brew of H2S. acid, etc. and down hole pressure exceeding 10k PSIG. Across Texas we find anomalies in down hole temperatures. Near surface temperatures may be 140 degrees F and drop as depth increases and suddlenly increase above 200 F. An interesting study was done on a well near Brazoria Texas. An exploratory well was drilled to a final depth of 19-20k feet deep with no success. Gosh awful pressures and problems with heat and salt water intrusion from nearby Gulf of Mexico.You may try to chase this report down at Mobil Oil. They seem to be having a problem with down hole temperature in the nation of Chad. Exxon has some production there. The Chinese are moving in where the bullets don't fly. Their biggest problem in production seems to be lightning and electric submersible pump motors in the oilwells. We looked at the problem from a lightning arrestor view and decided there was not a solution because of the soil. Strange and weird stuff. Richard David Jonsson wrote, This is a traditional basic question in solid mechanics and there is nothing special with it. I am interested in the earth crust and bore holes in it. Gravity is causing vertical stress on the crust but it is not obvious if the horizontal stress is positive or negative. One problem is if the crust can expand sideways and thus have a horizontal stress or if the geometry only allows isotropic contraction as would be the case if a sphere is shrinking. If we assume a negative horizontal stress what would the stress be around a vertical hole in the ground? The radial stress on the surface of the hole would be zero so there would be a gradient on the radial stress from the surface and into the rock which is identical to a volumetric force. Volumetric forces cause adiabatic heat gradients which means the measured temperature in the bore hole is different from that in the rock deeper into the walls of the hole. In order to calculate this non heat conducting (adiabatic) heat gradient I need to know the potential function of the displacement of the atoms in the crystals. Since silicon dioxide is the dominant component of the crust I will focus on such crystals. There is a bore hole in Poland where the temperature is dropping with increasing depth. This would indicate a positive horizontal stress. It can not be explained with the dominant theory of heat conduction from the interiors of the earth. David
Re: [Vo]:The Valone Matter
Howdy Thomas, Shooting cardsharps is a waste of bullets.Ya hafta think like Bear Stearns (B-S) and not like a crooked ole west Sheriff or Jesse James in todays world. In one slick move B-S took the house for more bucks than Las Vegas ever earned total. Yet, among the masters of the game, B-S is penny ante poker. It is not the recognizible marked card in the game that should be of concern, it's the guys down at the bank in the back room. Shucks!, ev'rybuddy knows who the moonshiner is in a small town.. it's sorta comfortable knowledge. Comfortable knowledge keeps people at ease, even when you know something sneaky's going on. Tom ain't hurtin' nobudy, just trying to make a livin'. In the Dime Box saloon we pay due respect even to the madam as a necessary part of doing business. If we put up with Chaney and Rumsfeld... why, we can put up with anything. Makes the saloon colorful for the tourists. Richard Thomas wrote, If you got caught cheating in a game of cards in the old west, you could expect to be shot. He has been given the opportunity to produce or repent, he has chosen to ignore. IMHO, this reflects badly on every legitimate researcher in the field. Why he did this is known only to him, but I assume that he is trying to sell books or memberships. So the question is, should we be self policing, or just let Tom do what he wants to do?
Re: [Vo]:Vortecii in everyday life - bagless vacuum cleaner
Sure David, Your local sawmill has a cyclone separator up near the roof that is piped to the area where sawdust is ejected from the saw blades. Using a force draft fan, the sawdust is vacuumed up to the separator.. clean air goes out the side discharge and concentrated sawdust gravity flows from the base.of the cone. DeLaval has made them for years for cream separators to phase. Richard - Original Message - From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:54 AM Subject: [Vo]:Vortecii in everyday life - bagless vacuum cleaner Hi all Check http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/product.asp?product=DC22-ALLERGY It is a vacuum cleaner without bag. Some kind of vortex separates the dust from the air and clean air is blow out of the machine. Can someone explain how it works? David -- David Jonsson Sweden phone callto:+46703000370 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM
Re: [Vo]:Blacklight Power: Sci-fi science rejected by UK-IPO
Howdy Mike, And thus we gain another glimpse of the new century strategies being used to capture revenue streams derived from intellectual property... or should I say properties. Actually the field remains open to a new legimate form of pirating ownership before discovery. hmmm Google concepualized an advertizing revenue stream could be created with a website. BLP appears to see a future revenue stream by pre-empting patents. Richard Mike Carrell wrote, The UK patent is just one event in an elaborate dance. BLP is well financed.
Re: [Vo]:Britain reveals UFO documents
Howdy Robin and Steven Johnson, Just imagine if you were Ezekiel and saw something like he described.. back in around 500BC where wi-fi was yet to reach. Using the language and technical terms available back at that time, how would we describe a UFO ? Would there be a similar description as that Ezekiel used ? We don't know. People surmise but the knowledge has, so far, eluded us.. unless.. well.. err.. a UFO lands at the University of Maryland and Parksie examines it in the Dime Box Saloon top secret research lab. Ezekiel 1:15 As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. 16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not turn about [d] as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Biomimicry redux
Howdy Jones, Tiawan and phenols... a lot to digest for today, perhaps a small glass of water with a dash of bi-carb would help my digestion. You are going somewhere with this post and I am waiting with baited breath.. which my mother said was helped if I brushed my teeth with salt and soda. As I recall from my chem lab experiment gone horribly wrong when the soda compound pressure exceed the vessel's captive limits.. and went Ka-blooey!.. there is also a pressure component in producing phenol. Tell us. oh wizard.. the next act in the drama.. You are correct in your thesis that this discovery may be much grandeur than much we have hoped for in new energy thinking. Richard
Re: [Vo]:New ENERGY TIMES (tm) May 10, 2008 -- Issue #28
- Original Message - From: thomas malloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:New ENERGY TIMES (tm) May 10, 2008 -- Issue #28 Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Thu, 15 May 2008 14:08:54 -0400: Hi, [snip] On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Steven Krivit [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why is the shrub always a plant? I think it is Donk's way of saying that your president (bush/shrub) is no smarter than any occupant of the rose garden. [snip] plant has second meaning in US slang. The President is, IMHO, a double minded man (who is unstable in all his ways). It would appear that he has an alt. Rumor has it that the alt has a homosexual lover (butt buddy), that personality is clearly not the Christian family man that the dominate personality claims to be. When George H W was inaugurated many Regan appointees were summarily dismissed by the transition team. That team was headed by George W. IMHO, that anecdote speaks volumes, particularly given the free spending, globalist, government expanding, behavior of his administration. --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1446 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 AM
Re: [Vo]:Biomimicry redux
- Original Message - From: Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Biomimicry redux In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 16 May 2008 07:45:06 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Now down to the nitty-gritty. Here is the recent journal article (letter) of interest (from Taiwan): http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/orlef7/2007/9/i10/abs/ol070597o.html Hydrothermal Reactions from Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate to Phenol Tian, Yuan, et al. Now- you tell me- am I reading too much into the energy implication of this development ? Maybe. [snip] One is forced to wonder where all the Oxygen went. Without having read the actual paper, my guess would be that it combined with the Fe to form Fe2O3 (rust). After all, something had to reduce the CO2 in bicarbonate. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1446 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 AM
Re: [Vo]:Biomimicry redux
- Original Message - From: Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Biomimicry redux In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 16 May 2008 07:45:06 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Now down to the nitty-gritty. Here is the recent journal article (letter) of interest (from Taiwan): http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/orlef7/2007/9/i10/abs/ol070597o.html Hydrothermal Reactions from Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate to Phenol Tian, Yuan, et al. Now- you tell me- am I reading too much into the energy implication of this development ? Maybe. [snip] One is forced to wonder where all the Oxygen went. Without having read the actual paper, my guess would be that it combined with the Fe to form Fe2O3 (rust). After all, something had to reduce the CO2 in bicarbonate. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1446 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 AM
Re: [Vo]:Biomimicry redux
Howdy Thomas, Do you have a link or name to this firm you referred to below? Richard Thomas wrote, I've been reading a business plan involving trapping CO2 and incorporating it into various alcohols and plant oils which will be used as fuel. The process involves Fe and Cu salts. I've been unable to figure out how the process is supposed to work, but given the credentials of the principals, and the amount of venture capital requested, they clearly have one. FYI, they have a prototype reactor operating.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Britain reveals UFO documents
Howdy Michel, Yes, I am waiting too, for the 2k COP info. Regarding battery chargers, I suspect the trend will lean toward exchange plug in batteries easily remove-install stations and moble services set up for this purpose. Michel wrote, P.S. Since no-one seems to have bit yet... do tell us more about that 2k COP reactor design please!
Re: [Vo]:RF at 13.56 MHz
Howdy Jones, Fascinating thoughts. My file size is increasing. I keep seeing an O3- O6 diozone theme lurking behind the scene. hmm Toying with fluorides in lieu of chlorine could take year off one' life. I have a recent experience with ferrous chloride used in water treating. This stuff can take the nail polish off my fingernails. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Re: Rocket Man AKA Fusion Man
We wont tell. Richard - Original Message - From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Vortex-L vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:11 AM Subject: [Vo]:Re: Rocket Man AKA Fusion Man Sorry, that last post was supposed to be a private email. Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1456 - Release Date: 5/20/2008 6:45 AM
Re: [Vo]:Toyota Still Likes NiMH
Howdy Ed, In the great poker game of life as played at the back table in the Dime Box Saloon, there are many different types of poker players entering and exiting the game. Surprisingly, none are in it for entertainment. On occasion, a player has a watcher standing behind you signaling your hand. Another has cards up their sleeve and in their boot. mirrors on their rings etc. A player must understand the rules before sitting down to play. There are no rules except.. Rule number one.. the house makes the rules. Second rule.. the house makes the rules. Third rule.. the house makes the rules. WHy?..because they make the chips that you buy for gold to play in their game. It's their game and their rules. Who are They.. they are they!!.. as the line from the movie The wild Bunch so stated. They are ordinary people working for the gov'ment.. with extraordinary power. Beginning with fond intentions, they quickly learn this power is both.. unlimited and extremely valuable to gain wealth, and sex. Did I say cult, no. I didn't have to tell you something you already knew. Richard Ed Storms wrote, These are the kinds of decisions that eventually lead to failure even though our arrogance make them look good at the time. You can see the same attitude being applied to the Iraq situation. We never learn.
[Vo]:Sapphire Energy
Howdy Vorts, Another algae to gasoline startup venture. This one with all the bells and whistles that's possible with California venture capitalists plus some old money from Wellcome. They have more PhD'd on deck than a Dime Box saloon academic marathon. Reading the credits, I keep wondering why so many changed jobs so often, built business and sold for high dollar and are still in the game of promoting the next fad. Oh well, I'm sorta old fashion in my business thinking.. I believe a business is supposed to make a profit.. but... as the stock market demonstrates.. that's really NOT where the money is made.. the money is made by IPO whereas an initial share is offered at 20 bucks par.. climbs to 60 overnight, drops to 10 the next day and the profit is in the entertainment of watching your stock shares hoping the price will rise. With the world awash in cash.. it actually beats Vegas for thrills. Now IF they can get past the will be, can be. if and when... to.. done it. http://www.sapphireenergy.com/ Richard
Re: [Vo]:Re: Sapphire Energy
Howdy Michel, Inhale, exhale hot air, result, CO2 hot air. The concentration process takes place later during the evaluation of intellectual property for the purpose of pumping tactics like commodities brokers . Since this whole process requires a certain article of faith, one must become a believer. PhD's that have learned to use their credentials to sell ice to eskimos represent the asset base since nothing yet is coming out of the end of the pipe. Somewhere along the way IF their technology proves or simply IF it attracts attention of the people that are in the business of mass production of fuels ( oil companies), the people behind the venture rake the cream and go onto the next opportunity. There is no guarantee the true producers will pay for useful intellectual property. This only happens in Hollywood and in closed circuits like music and software. The Chinese have perfected the transfer of technology without the need to buy the rights or pay patent royalties. They simply get the firm making the product to set up a plant in China and it morphs into Chinese while destroying the original firm by competitive pricing. The insidious nature of this strategy comes out of their ancient playbooks on methods of conquering enemies. Richard Michel wrote, What is their concentrated CO2 source? Another algae to gasoline startup venture. This one with all the bells and whistles that's possible with California venture capitalists plus some old money from Wellcome. They have more PhD'd on deck than a Dime Box saloon academic marathon. Reading the credits, I keep wondering why so many changed jobs so often, built business and sold for high dollar and are still in the game of promoting the next fad. Oh well, I'm sorta old fashion in my business thinking.. I believe a business is supposed to make a profit.. but... as the stock market demonstrates.. that's really NOT where the money is made.. the money is made by IPO whereas an initial share is offered at 20 bucks par.. climbs to 60 overnight, drops to 10 the next day and the profit is in the entertainment of watching your stock shares hoping the price will rise. With the world awash in cash.. it actually beats Vegas for thrills. Now IF they can get past the will be, can be. if and when... to.. done it. http://www.sapphireenergy.com/ Richard No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1475 - Release Date: 5/30/2008 2:53 PM
[VO]: Flat Earth Society
Howdy Vorts, The Flat Earth Society (FES-UP) is planning the next meeting in the back room at the Dime Box Saloon as soon as money can be raised to pay last month's bar tab. Invited guests will be an actual eyewitness of the attempt to fake a landing of the Phoenix on Mars. Some claim the witness has a screw loose and plan to hire one of the lawyers shown on UTube teaching liars how to tell the truth 9 different ways without lying. Last month's minutes of the FES meeting were stolen by space aliens( our security cameras caught it on tape). Will the person(s) that took the .80 cents tip donated to the bartender please refrain from giving us all a bad name in the interest of science. Or to paraphrase Rodney King.. could we all just get back to science. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Another BLP PR blurb, this one with a photo
Yep!, It's a Fuji. Remember that public relations (PR) is the bedrock of credibility. Richard
Re: [Vo]:The Science of Intention
Howdy Ed, By asking for a return to science, this theme, begun by Jones is beginning to reach a level of scientific inquiry, fitting of Vorts. Solomon expressed his opinion that time and chance happens to us all. This profound wisdom does not escape Jones in his musings. There can be an entire trioloxy of writings on one simple observation .. say for example..the story of David and Goliath in 1 Sam:17... if one can get past the religious aspect of the account, the story becomes an interesting exercize in mental gymnastics. Most of the elements of which novels are composed are contained in this seeming fairy tale of a boy slaying a fearsome giant. Here, out of the annals of history, is captured an essence of what dreams are made of. Remarkably, within the story, the method and resultant is revealed, offered to the world for use, provided one searches. Richard Ed Storms wrote... Educated people now know that the belief, in this case, had no effect except to start the process. While this is a trivial example, the same process occurs in all actions, frequently where the relationship between belief and outcome is not so clear. Superstition relies on this ambiguity while science attempts to show the underlying process. Unfortunately, many people are not educated enough to understand what is already known and enough true ignorance remains to give support to the belief in magic. To make matters even more confusing, while science attempts to sort out the actions in the material world, I believe the spiritual world can always throw in a joker to confuse the issue. This is how religion gets its power. In addition, must people feel inadequate in their ability to control reality using their knowledge. Instead a strong belief, which everyone has without effort, or faith in a God, which requires no knowledge, are used as a substitute for skill. It is sometimes difficult when exploring this subject to separate the true reality from the substitution, especially when the true reality is scary and the substitution is entertaining and loving.
Re: [Vo]:The Science of Intention
Howdy Ed, Is is possible to engage in a discussion of ideas without veering off into religion? Yes! perhaps, among Vorts which make for such an interesting group. Religions have perplexed me because I cannot understand why so many reasonably educated people cannot get past religion and establish a personal faith based belief system. Mention of the brief account of the story of David and Goliaththe account is overflowing with the basics of how to view, how to plan and how to execute a simple life strategy. Facing the giants!. In the mind, where all battles are ultimately won or lost. Does one individual's mind victory impinge on the overall direction of society ? Yes! To those that believe... it's true !, To those that don't .. it's not ! Richard Ed Storms wrote, Science, at least, has a few tools that can be used. Unfortunately, religion does not provide such tools nor does the idea of magic.
Re: [Vo]:The Science of Intention
Howdy Ed, This thread is becoming most interesting because it deals with a voyage toward a science of ideas where, once embarked upon that sea, there can be no return. Our decision then becomes that of selecting the posture one takes in the boat, As the human species of flesh on an earth, populated by animals, we alone, do not practice survival of the fittest. Jones touched on this subject some time back with his comment on maji. On occasion, in history, a single brilliant mind may rise every couple hundred years. One of my grandchildren is in private school for gifted children. These children have every resource available for their education and they demonstrate certain intellectual heights that cannot be otherwise explained except to describe them as gifted. The school has yet to reveal a maji after 60 years and some 100 grads per year. The school has children from across the earth. There are perhaps a half dozen schools like this in the USA. The represent a form of intellectual survival of the fittest. There are examples of this practice in history.. Alexandria, Byzantine, Seville, Florence, etc. There are also schools on earth for the black arts. The US government is now budgeting a fortune toward these black arts schools. Richard Ed Storms wrote, Of course, these ideas are not accepted because the process is not very reproducible and has no theory to explain it. (Does this sound familiar?) In addition, as Steven pointed out, a person with this ability might want to hid this fact.
Re: [Vo]:The Science of Intention
Thanks for bringing Sai Baba back to my attention, Ed. How foolish of Money could not be a problem for a miracle worker, of course -- it takes only the slightest ability to affect the laws of chance, or the teeniest ability to predict the future, to allow one to amass as much wealth as you could possibly need. Particularly one who can materialize gold coins, eh? Howdy Vorts, 'Bout now the boys at the Dime Box are scratching their heads in wonder how this thread morphed in eastern mysticism. I thought wez discussing how the bartender could somehow slide a mug of beer down the bar at just the right time... but .. I can understand that people might not understand the understanding with the patrons. Richard
Re: [Vo]:In the Limelight
Howdy Jones, Interesting to us is the calcium buildup on our units returned for repairs. Only in certain areas of the US does this buildup occur. even stranger is the locations are often near oceans where chlorine gas is inducted and mixed.. hmm Richard
Re: [Vo]:The Science of Intention
Howdy Ed, A very quality analysis of the direction taken in the thread. I always understood Sai Baba to be a mystic but I can agree a mystic may not be considered a mystic as long as his heart is pure and the gold is 24 karat.. Ole Balaam had this problem too, but God helped him out a little by having his donkey make a jackass outa him. Balaam was from an ole line of soothsayers,cardsharps, con men, magicians, seers, socalled prophets and general all around handy people to have around when you had the money and needed a favor. A The two magicians in Pharoah's court were kinfolks of Balaam that lost a perfectly good snake during a magic trick they played on Moses.. but ain't nobuddy perfect. I always gave PT Barnum credit for having a sense of humor and he pulled a few rabbits outa his hat for fun and profit. Ed Storms wrote. Let me answer your question, Richard. The issue was how does a person evaluate reality. Of course, different kinds of or different levels of reality exist. Therefore, different methods are required. Science uses objective evaluation of observation in the material world. The question was raised about thought transfer as an example of a phenomenon that appears to be outside of the material world. The resulting discussion involved how this phenomenon is investigated and how would it behave if real? I provided another example of this type of reality in the person of Sai Baba. No mysticism is involved. My point is that examples exist of phenomenon beyond our understanding of the material world that can be tested and verified. Faith and religion are not involved. Of course, these examples impact on religion, but they do not require a religious belief. The examples have the same reality we attribute to any chemical or physical reaction, except they have no physical explanation. How does an open minded person deal with such a situation? Dismissing the phenomena as mysticism is a cop-out.
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Howdy Vorts, Gosh, golly, gee folks, here we go again with the Jews and arabs. This time the wedge is oil. The USA uses oil like toilet paper and everybuddy knows wez intitled to it.. or we think we do. We have enough oil provided we turn off a few lights and live like I we did back in the '30's by riding bicycles. We ain't gonna cuz we are better and smarter than anyone else and besides, we deserve it.. ask any TV advertizing message. If we are getting into a middle east debate over some long term bar room argument, this feud over land goes back awhile. Ask any Palestinian lounging on the corner in Gaza and he'll correct you by stating .. don't call me a Pallestinian.. call me a Canaanite cuz we wuz here first. The fact that Abraham came to Canaan and bought his land fair and square ain't got nuthin to do with it. His kinfolks later bought up most of Manhatten Island if you notice who's name's on the title to you apartment. but.. that's why they call it political science at Yale.. where all the really smart US presidents learn how to practice their profession.. Now if we can just find out what their profession is.. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Howdy Thomas, Don't know. Doubt any complex conspiracies are developing in Wash DC other than a regime is passing and the players in the great game are scrambling as new players form behind the curtain for the next act in the drama. Beyond gridlock could be the theme and the music a takeoff of seems I've heard that song before, it's from an old familar score. Richard Thomas wrote, Is this the Oil Gang? is it c//onspiracy or coincidence?
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Howdy Vorts, Seems this thread has taken on a life of it's own. Time to take the mirror down from behind the bar before sumbuddy starts preaching a sermon and tosses a whiskey bottle. The boys at the Dime Box saloon practice peaceful co-existence and .. the rule is to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Which means.. be wise enough to stomp a snake flat and pull his fangs without a discussion and it makes a snake plum peaceful as a dove. Problem is that when Israel does this it's called cruelty to animals. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
I don't know all the facts so I must go by the funny papers, virtual TV and the bible. Gaza had greenhouses producing food. Gaza was ceded to Hezbubba by Israel. Hezbubba destroyed the greenhouses which produced the food and provided jobs, effectively hurting nobody but themselves.They are now on welfare. The history of those greenhouses and for that matter, the nearby university and hospital also built by the Jews may not be verifiable facts unless you have your eyes open.. but.. for sure.. the amazing absence of Hezbubba created food production, hospitals, universities and job creating ( except for hired gunslingers) makes for some interesting conjecture. Ole DeCartes took a look around the town way back when. He didn't see much but desert and a few sheep but he did allow that IF the bible were true and the place turned back into a garden.. he figured people would believe in God. The poor dumb guy just didn't understand human nature. Richard Ed Storms wrote, We can differ about what the facts mean, but I don't understand why you can't acknowledge easily verifiable facts. Unfortunately, your reaction is not uncommon and it is the reason why rational decisions are not being made.
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Howdy Ed Storms, Back in the 1880's some Jews made a deal and bought some land from the Sultan of Turkey to establish Kibbutze farms along the Gaza strip, later greenhouses. So I could suppose that a guy got thrown off his land might harbor some resentment but it depends on who you are in this ole world. I noticed after WW2, the survivors of the Nazi trick of oven baked Jew asked the Swiss banks for their money back on deposit but .. again, it depends on who you are in this ole world. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Re: Divine Intervention
Howdy Michel, Religion, science fiction, politics and women are the few safe topics in which one can converse without having a lick of sense. Richard Michel Jullian wrote: Just wondering, haven't you fellow androids drifted slightly off topic in this and the other (oil gang) thread? Depends on whether you think a Deus Ex Machina is a reasonable solution to the energy crises.
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Howdy Jeff, No problem with you bellying up to the bar on this topic , provided you got big enough elbows. Your point makes a case of effect until you factor in China and the Pacific Rim where China is the master. Our religions and politics represent near zero in the great game.. it is our consumer market that keeps us alive, Relying on interpretations of the bible has sure caused lotsa people grief. The book of Revelation is revealing in what it don't say which tells you it ain't gonna say until it is time to say and that ain't yet.. maybe tomorrow. In short.. the Texas version is hide and watch. Your recognition of Israel's restoration in 1948 as the physical Israel may be valid. History and Satan has a strange way of playing tricks on the unsuspecting as ole Willlie Shakepeare observed watching the antics of the king. As for spiritual Israel.. that's a one on one thing. Richard Jeff Fink wrote, 1. This is a valid discussion, since the religious/political events of the next 20 years will affect us all more seriously than the success or failure of cold fusion but in 1948 the nation came back to life!
Re: [Vo]:Sichuan Quake Triggered by Nuke?
Howdy Jones, On the face of it, the magazine making the report represents itself as a model of credibility so as Jones states.. who knows. We do know that if the report is factual the people playing with bamboo matches during a nuke experiment will never make the same mistake again. The report has certain other world scientists concerned that sumbuddy might be keeping some new science very secret. Richard Jones wrote, If it was not planned but accidental - that is even scarier because of its presumed size. I could not find any studies on it, so who knows?
Re: [Vo]:Object on Mars
Howdy Horace, Anyone living in the wilds of Texas, Alaska or Mars can quickly identify these objects. People buy take out food at McDonald's and throw the cartons out the window as they pass by. We retaliate by placing a trash dumpster on our country road and the neighborhood red neck Trashberry family retaliates by stealing the dumpster. No matter where you live or travel.. it's like that.. even Mars. Richard