If it mans wisdom , your right (bleet,bleet )
If its Gods wisdom, your probably the goat
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 23:56:19 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
From: gsantost...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
How can anybody in the 21st century still mention the bible for any guidance on
any topics goes beyond me.
Don't you realize it is the "wisdom" of some ignorant goat herder that lived
thousands of year ago?
Giovanni
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
A chimera or chimaera is a single organism that is composed of two or more
different populations of genetically distinct cells that originated from
different zygotes involved in sexual reproduction.Chimeras are formed from at
least four parent cells (two fertilized eggs or early embryos fused together).
Each population of cells keeps its own character and the resulting organism is
a mixture of tissues. Chimeras are typically seen in animals; there are some
reports of human chimerism.
In the process of human chimerism, two separate souls existed at the time of
conception. When the early embryos fused together sometime after conception,
does two souls become one? Or does one of the souls die? Does the chimera have
two souls?
What Bible verse direct us in answering these soul allocation questions
associated with the formation of a chimera?
=====================================
Regarding the soul formation process associated with identical twin formation.
When the soul is created at conception, one soul is formed. But at a later
time, the blastocyst undergoes fission into two separate individuals.When is
the soul of the second individual formed? This second soul could not have been
in place at the time of conception.
I contend that the Bible does not cover this secondary soul creation process.
Am I correct on this point?
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Axil, I always like your responses because you
always get me thinking deeper. Anyways, I feel there are a few errors in
your logic.
First, you need to realize that the body - cells,
DNA, etc. that form the human physical attributes exist in only 4 dimensions
(length, width, height, and time). The soul on the other hand, comes from
God and imparted by God and hence is "Spiritual" - metaphysical. A Soul is
a "hyper-dimensional" entity. It exists beyond the 4 dimensions of our
physical existence. That is why it survives our physical death.
Your presupposition that a single fertilized egg,
being small and non-functionalized, therefore can not "contain" the soul is a
faulty premise. The soul is not bound by the size nor the
non-functionality of a single egg.
Second, you presuppose that the soul is "bound" to
the cells and DNA. IOW, you say that by destroying a fingernail, you are
"killing" a living entity. That is in fact is a faulty
understanding. The soul is not bound to any cell or DNA. It
exist 'with' our physical cells, DNA and body; not exist 'because of' our
physical cells, DNA and body. The cells does not contaiin "part of a soul"
that you kill when you trim your fingernail. The source of your
(mis)understanding is the ancient occultic religion of animism, which
presupposes that everything has a "soul", including inanimate objects like
rocks
and fingernails.
Third. The creator of our being, clearly says that
life starts in the womb. That means, conception is the time He imparts the
living soul. The Bible teaches that God breathed into Adam and Adam became
a Living soul. Before God's breathe, Adam was just a collection of
dirt. God imparted the life. Before conception, the female egg is
not alive, hence, when a woman experiences a menstrual cycle, that is not
murder. Immediately at conception, God breathe into that union of egg and
sperm a life. From that point on, that cells contains a living soul.
That life is alive until such time as God decides to separate that living soul
from that body, hence physical death occurs.
Fourth, Putting human DNA to animal or vice versa
has nothing to do with life or the soul. Man can do this all day long but
until God breathes into that creation, it is not a lviing soul. As
mentioned above, the soul is not bound to a cell or single DNA that you carry
along with it when you transfer DNA to another animal. The soul is
software. A computer is dead without software. You do not transfer
software when you transfer a single resistor of a PC into another
circuit.
Last, my understanding is not of my own
origin. I have no intellect to extend "my" theology, since it is not "my"
theology to begin with. If you want to understand man and his soul,
you have to study the software manual that comes with it. You need to
study the Bible.
Jojo
----- Original Message -----
From:
Axil Axil
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 4:17
AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
Some
believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized; aka
the moment of conception.
In
this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has
the potential to form a complete person, but at the time of conception no
organ is yet formed to contain the soul.
With
current technology, any cell in the body can be transformed into a omnipotent
cell that can produce a human.
So
human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human
body.
If
this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim your finger
nails?
If a
mouse is given flawed disease carrying human DNA to simulate human disease or
a goat is given human genes to produce human insulin, have these animals
become human with a soul.
If a
geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the animal
become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul?
Please
extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your quest to
define the soul.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You've made my point better than I. For when you
are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact
studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're
software.
Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred
lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular
structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo;
we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand
the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like
studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software
Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the
man himself.
Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows
operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't
understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher
level?
not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer
and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human
soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons?
You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions
about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic
prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to
understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such
efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian
Evolution.
Jojo
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Patrick Ellul
To:
vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent:
Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM
Subject:
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has
MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see
and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted
as ones and zeros on a memory device.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical
attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the
onset.
Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer
who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the
software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding
of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding
would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the
intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer.
Software controls the hardware.
On the same token, experts
in
Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc,
can never hope to completely understand the Human Soul. It is that
intangible entity - the soul, that controls the hardware consisting of
your brain cells/neurons, etc. The Software soul is what needs to
be understood for us to understand the behavior of man. You need
to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is simply a mechanism
that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the mechanism that MS
Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate.
Hence,
one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these
philosophers/psychologists/psychiatrists/etc. They are at
best severely incomplete, at worst gravely misleading.
If you
want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote the
software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better
understanding of human
behavior.
Jojo
-----
Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" <hohlr...@gmail.com>
To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October
31, 2012 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the
best explanation of
consciousness to date. It's called
Orchestrated Objective Reduction,
or Orch-OR. The two
actually developed the idea separately, Sir
Penrose being a
physicist and Hameroff being a physician who
specialized in
anesthesia and cancer research. Roger was seeking a
model of
the brain that did not require computation. Hameroff
wanted
to know how anesthesia worked and where the conscious went
when under.
Penrose theorizes that spacetime is granular at the
size of the
Planck length and that quantum superposition is linked
to the
curvature. Orchestrated Reduction is the collapse of
the
superposition.
Hameroff brought in the neuron
microtubles which provide the
structure. He sees a
synchronous oscillation in neural MT can
influence other neurons.
Together they see these electrons as a sea
embedded in the
geometry of spacetime.
Needless to say, they have many critics.
:-)
--
Patrick
www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can
finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!
