[Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
Static buildup, ignition of dust. I've heard of several cases where the static buildup from the cyclone style canister vacs spark and ignite some of the deodorizing powders that have become popular. I got good 5 inch arcs off a vacuum once, so I can believe it. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Harry Veeder hvee...@ncf.ca wrote: LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html
RE: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
Since it was a cordless, there was likely a lithium battery. These batteries have a history of overheating and explosion. It could be coincidental, of course, that the batteries contain lithium hydroxide which has been used successfully as the electrolyte in cold fusion experiments. Jones -Original Message- From: leaking pen [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] Static buildup, ignition of dust. I've heard of several cases where the static buildup from the cyclone style canister vacs spark and ignite some of the deodorizing powders that have become popular. I got good 5 inch arcs off a vacuum once, so I can believe it. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Harry Veeder hvee...@ncf.ca wrote: LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
Downloading and magnifying the upper photo appears to show that the top visible cell of the battery (still mostly inside the handle) had burst, blowing a hole in the handle. Those cells are pretty small, and if they can power the motor for a while they must contain a substantial amount of chemical energy. An internal short in the cell would rapidly convert all of that energy to heat, turning the electrolyte into very hot, high pressure vapor. If the cell didn't have an overpressure release diaphragm, its metal case would burst like a pipe bomb. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:51:34AM -0700, leaking pen wrote: Static buildup, ignition of dust. I've heard of several cases where the static buildup from the cyclone style canister vacs spark and ignite some of the deodorizing powders that have become popular. I got good 5 inch arcs off a vacuum once, so I can believe it. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Harry Veeder hvee...@ncf.ca wrote: LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
Jones wrote: Since it was a cordless, there was likely a lithium battery. These batteries have a history of overheating and explosion. Mark S Bilk wrote: Downloading and magnifying the upper photo appears to show that the top visible cell of the battery (still mostly inside the handle) had burst, blowing a hole in the handle. Those cells are pretty small, and if they can power the motor for a while they must contain a substantial amount of chemical energy. An internal short in the cell would rapidly convert all of that energy to heat, turning the electrolyte into very hot, high pressure vapor. If the cell didn't have an overpressure release diaphragm, its metal case would burst like a pipe bomb. A lithium battery letting go makes more sense to me than a dust explosion in the canister. I would have expected a dust explosion to produce cuts and bruises, but not a third degree burn on the hand. A bursting battery right next to the operator's hand, on the other hand, seems much more likely to cause that kind of injury. An extremely brief exposure to burning gas, as in an explosion in the dust canister, would seem very unlikely to burn through the skin of the palm which was probably pressed against the handle at the time, which would in fact likely afford it a certain amount of protection from an explosion 8 or 10 away. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:51:34AM -0700, leaking pen wrote: Static buildup, ignition of dust. I've heard of several cases where the static buildup from the cyclone style canister vacs spark and ignite some of the deodorizing powders that have become popular. I got good 5 inch arcs off a vacuum once, so I can believe it. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Harry Veeder hvee...@ncf.ca wrote: LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
Darn. so much for my exploding static vortex dust cyclone idea. damn you and your logic! On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: Jones wrote: Since it was a cordless, there was likely a lithium battery. These batteries have a history of overheating and explosion. Mark S Bilk wrote: Downloading and magnifying the upper photo appears to show that the top visible cell of the battery (still mostly inside the handle) had burst, blowing a hole in the handle. Those cells are pretty small, and if they can power the motor for a while they must contain a substantial amount of chemical energy. An internal short in the cell would rapidly convert all of that energy to heat, turning the electrolyte into very hot, high pressure vapor. If the cell didn't have an overpressure release diaphragm, its metal case would burst like a pipe bomb. A lithium battery letting go makes more sense to me than a dust explosion in the canister. I would have expected a dust explosion to produce cuts and bruises, but not a third degree burn on the hand. A bursting battery right next to the operator's hand, on the other hand, seems much more likely to cause that kind of injury. An extremely brief exposure to burning gas, as in an explosion in the dust canister, would seem very unlikely to burn through the skin of the palm which was probably pressed against the handle at the time, which would in fact likely afford it a certain amount of protection from an explosion 8 or 10 away. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:51:34AM -0700, leaking pen wrote: Static buildup, ignition of dust. I've heard of several cases where the static buildup from the cyclone style canister vacs spark and ignite some of the deodorizing powders that have become popular. I got good 5 inch arcs off a vacuum once, so I can believe it. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Harry Veeder hvee...@ncf.ca wrote: LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:15:39 -0400: Hi, [snip] The conventional explanation is an internal short, however I wonder about that. An internal short can't be any worse than an external short, so has anyone managed to cause a fully charged battery to explode simply by shorting it (Vorts with an experimental bent, and a love of fireworks, this is your chance! :) If not, then LENR looks much more likely. (BTW, note that in the case below, the batteries were probably not even fully charged - I almost reached the third floor.) LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
In reply to leaking pen's message of Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:36:58 -0700: Hi, [snip] Darn. so much for my exploding static vortex dust cyclone idea. damn you and your logic! Note also that the casing that holds the batteries has been blown away. This is clearly due to an explosion from within. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
all i can plead is that my work internet filters prevent me from seeing the picture, and i skimmed the article. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 2:44 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to leaking pen's message of Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:36:58 -0700: Hi, [snip] Darn. so much for my exploding static vortex dust cyclone idea. damn you and your logic! Note also that the casing that holds the batteries has been blown away. This is clearly due to an explosion from within. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:15:39 -0400: Hi, [snip] The conventional explanation is an internal short, however I wonder about that. An internal short can't be any worse than an external short, so has anyone managed to cause a fully charged battery to explode simply by shorting it (Vorts with an experimental bent, and a love of fireworks, this is your chance! :) Dunno about that -- but the explanation I have run across for the fires in early Mac powerbooks, and maybe some other Li batteries, is that the steel rollers used to flatten the plates which are used in the batteries suffered wear, and tiny steel splinters were -- uh -- spalted from the rollers (I think that's the right word). The splinters, which were *really* tiny, went unnoticed and didn't interfere with battery operation ... initially. However, the plates in Li batteries are extremely close together. Under heavy charging current the splinters would stand up, lining up with the applied E field, and occasionally bridge the gap between plates, shorting them together. We're talking about a situation where the wire involved (the splinter) is really thin but also extremely short, and supposedly they'd get hot enough to set fire to or burst the battery. Whatever, take it or leave it, I got this orally from an electric car conversion guy. Don't have a reference to back it up. If not, then LENR looks much more likely. (BTW, note that in the case below, the batteries were probably not even fully charged - I almost reached the third floor.) LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
In reply to Stephen A. Lawrence's message of Fri, 27 Mar 2009 22:49:13 -0400: Hi, [snip] mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:15:39 -0400: Hi, [snip] The conventional explanation is an internal short, however I wonder about that. An internal short can't be any worse than an external short, so has anyone managed to cause a fully charged battery to explode simply by shorting it (Vorts with an experimental bent, and a love of fireworks, this is your chance! :) Dunno about that -- but the explanation I have run across for the fires in early Mac powerbooks, and maybe some other Li batteries, is that the steel rollers used to flatten the plates which are used in the batteries suffered wear, and tiny steel splinters were -- uh -- spalted from the rollers (I think that's the right word). The splinters, which were *really* tiny, went unnoticed and didn't interfere with battery operation ... initially. However, the plates in Li batteries are extremely close together. Under heavy charging current the splinters would stand up, lining up with the applied E field, and occasionally bridge the gap between plates, shorting them together. We're talking about a situation where the wire involved (the splinter) is really thin but also extremely short, and supposedly they'd get hot enough to set fire to or burst the battery. Whatever, take it or leave it, I got this orally from an electric car conversion guy. Don't have a reference to back it up. [snip] That's the same explanation I've seen elsewhere on the web. It would concentrate all the energy of the battery in one tiny spot, resulting in a high pressure plasma. Also, the heat would locally boil the electrolyte, creating additional pressure. Furthermore, once a plasma formed, the short would increase. Perhaps that's the difference between an internal and an external short, where the heat can escape. If such a battery contains say 1 Amp.hr @ 1.3 V, then that's the explosive power of 1 gm of TNT, which my gut feeling says would be enough to explain the results. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
