Re: [Vo]: Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:08:33 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] --- Nick Palmer wrote: getting the CO2 from existing coal/oil/gas fired plants would be FAR better... I agree 100%. The situation is not either/or. CO2 should definitely be removed from the exhaust of all existing fossil fired plants, and fed to algae- there is no question about that. However, that will not be enough to end the US dependence on Middle Eastern Oil. [snip] If I'm not mistaken (and I could well be), then the US actually consumes more fossil fuel to generate electricity than it does for transportation, so capturing all the CO2 from fossil power plants and converting it into algoil, might even make the US into a net exporter again. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]: Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: If I'm not mistaken (and I could well be), then the US actually consumes more fossil fuel to generate electricity than it does for transportation . . . Roughly the same for both: 26.6 quads of oil for transportation, and for electric power 20.5 quads of coal and 6.5 quads of natural gas. Other electric power inputs come from biomass (1.0 quads), oil (1.2 quads) hydroelectricity (3.0) and nuclear (8.0). See p. 17: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NRELenergyover.pdf - Jed
Re: [Vo]: Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
--- Robin If I'm not mistaken (and I could well be), then the US actually consumes more fossil fuel to generate electricity than it does for transportation, Yes but much of that consumption for electricity is provided by nuclear, hydro, wind, solar or in sites which cannot easily adapt to capturing CO2 for use in adjoining ponds. Plus night-time CO2 emission would be difficult to store. Therefore -- even if the US converted all of the well-sited coal and natural gas fired grid plants over to the production of algoil as a byproduct of the captured CO2, it would probably supply less than half of our transportation needs. It is true that a breakthrough in batteries (what happened to EEStor ??) would bring the situation into better balance by shifting more demand to the grid. Jones
Re: [Vo]: Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:05:25 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] --- Robin If I'm not mistaken (and I could well be), then the US actually consumes more fossil fuel to generate electricity than it does for transportation, Yes but much of that consumption for electricity is provided by nuclear, hydro, wind, solar or in sites which cannot easily adapt to capturing CO2 for use in adjoining ponds. See Jed's post, and add all the C related power generation sources. Plus night-time CO2 emission would be difficult to store. Not necessarily. New technologies for scrubbing CO2 from the smokestack currently being developed with sequestration in mind, all employ some form of chemical that binds the CO2, and later releases it with some gentle prodding. Such a chemical method could readily be adapted to storing the CO2 sequestered at night for use during the day. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]: Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 5:05 PM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is true that a breakthrough in batteries (what happened to EEStor ??) would bring the situation into better balance by shifting more demand to the grid. Not a lot of real news on their wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEstor I think it was already reported here that LockMart had sewn up the DOD licenses. Makes a nice combo with constant source of energy like Goldes device or others. ;-) Speaking of spintronics, I'm sure you saw the news about IBM's breakthrough on memory: http://www.crn.com/storage/207200264 More music storage on your IPod than you could listen in your lifetime. :-) Terry
Re: [Vo]: Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
--- Nick Palmer wrote: getting the CO2 from existing coal/oil/gas fired plants would be FAR better... I agree 100%. The situation is not either/or. CO2 should definitely be removed from the exhaust of all existing fossil fired plants, and fed to algae- there is no question about that. However, that will not be enough to end the US dependence on Middle Eastern Oil. File that away and move on to the trickier question, which basically resolves to the dilemma of the lesser of two evils Would we be better off for that percentage of shortfall, which the above will not cover, to continue importing the balance of the oil from Arabia, Venezuela and other OPEC thugs, or would we be better off converting our own resources for the purpose? The same amount of CO2 gets into the air either way. No-brainer. Jones
[Vo]:Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
Jones wrote: Locating and owning optimum sites for algae farming could replace exploration and drilling. While they wouldn't be the same sort of refineries, oil company engineers could do what they do best, designing and implementing the large scale chemical processing plants that give us our present petroleum products. Let's face it. These guys are really good at pumping and chemically transforming huge amounts of liquid and gaseous stuff. Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: I agree. One would think that algoil refineries would be right up their alley. I hope some junior oil exec is doing his best to plant the seeds of corporate expansion. Exxon-Algoil. If it's good enough for our stock holders, it's good enough for Independent Republic of Texas. Hi All, At least Shell is giving it a try. Jack Smith JOINT PRESS RELEASE from Shell Oil and HR Biopetroleum, 12-11-07, by WEBWIRE http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=54866 ``Shell and HR Biopetroleum build facility to grow algae for biofuel Royal Dutch Shell plc [limited liability company] and HR Biopetroleum today announced the construction of a pilot facility in Hawaii to grow marine algae and produce vegetable oil for conversion into biofuel. The announcement is a further step in Shell's ongoing effort to develop a new generation of biofuels using sustainable, non-food raw materials. Algae hold great promise because they grow very rapidly, are rich in vegetable oil and can be cultivated in ponds of seawater, minimising the use of fertile land and fresh water. Shell and HR Biopetroleum have formed a joint venture company, called Cellana, to develop this project, with Shell taking the majority share. Construction of the demonstration facility on the Kona coast of Hawaii Island will begin immediately. The site, leased from the Natural Energy Laboratory of Hawaii Authority (NELHA), is near existing commercial algae enterprises, primarily serving the pharmaceutical and nutrition industries. The facility will grow only non-modified, marine microalgae species in open-air ponds using proprietary technology. Algae strains used will be indigenous to Hawaii or approved by the Hawaii Department of Agriculture. Protection of the local environment and marine ecosystem has been central to facility design. Once the algae are harvested, the vegetable oil will be extracted. The facility's small production volumes will be used for testing. An academic research programme will support the project, screening natural microalgae species to determine which ones produce the highest yields and the most vegetable oil. The programme will include scientists from the Universities of Hawaii, Southern Mississippi and Dalhousie, in Nova Scotia, Canada. An advantage of algae is their rapid growth. They can double their mass several times a day and produce at least 15 times more oil per hectare than alternatives such as rape, palm soya or jatropha. Moreover, facilities can be built on coastal land unsuitable for conventional agriculture. Over the long term, algae cultivation facilities also have the potential to absorb or `capture' waste CO2 directly from industrial facilities such as power plants. The Cellana demonstration will use bottled CO2 to explore this potential. Algae have great potential as a sustainable feedstock for production of diesel-type fuels with a very small CO2 footprint, said Graeme Sweeney, Shell Executive Vice President Future Fuels and CO2. This demonstration will be an important test of the technology and, critically, of commercial viability. HR Biopetroleum's proven technology provides a solid platform for commercial development and potential deployment worldwide, Mark Huntley, HR Biopetroleum Chief Science Officer said. Shell's expertise and commitment to next generation biofuels complements our own strengths, and makes this a truly collaborative partnership. http://www.shell.com/aboutshell http://www.HRbiopetroleum.com
Re: [Vo]:Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
For the record the insight about the Oil Industry getting into the Algoil act, and probably converting it into their net big growth industry so to speak, as if they invented the idea ... came from Michael not me. But I agree with it wholeheartedly and will soon induct MJ into our bulging chapter of Cynics Anonymous...
Re: [Vo]:Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
Oops ... My Bad ... For the record the insight about the Oil Industry getting into the Algoil act ... came from Michael Foster ... but we have several openings in CA (Cynics Anonymous) for anyone who resembles god ;-) I will let one of the resemblers finish that thought...
Re: [Vo]:Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:02:37 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Oops ... My Bad ... For the record the insight about the Oil Industry getting into the Algoil act ... came from Michael Foster ... but we have several openings in CA (Cynics Anonymous) for anyone who resembles god ;-) How do you know whether or not someone resembles God? :) I will let one of the resemblers finish that thought... Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy'
On Thursday 03 April 2008 21:33, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:02:37 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Oops ... My Bad ... For the record the insight about the Oil Industry getting into the Algoil act ... came from Michael Foster ... but we have several openings in CA (Cynics Anonymous) for anyone who resembles god ;-) How do you know whether or not someone resembles God? :) I will let one of the resemblers finish that thought... Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant. Resembles god? Sounds like the controversy about the cartoons that the mohammedans do not like. Trouble is, nobody knows just what the dude looked like in life. Given that those footwashers don't believe in pictures of their worshipees [no idols = excuse for not knowing]. So any likeness would do if someone said it was whatever. One could draw a picture of a velociraptor and call it the profit or whatever and no one would be able to prove it was or was not him. The Christians among us do not even know what Jesus looked like, and there are many, many likenesses of him in just about every church on the planet. My Mormon church has pictures of him as an over six foot blond guy with blue or grey eyes. You know, just the kind of dude you would find as a middle eastern Jewish carpenter.
