RE: [Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
Stephen, One way that the “fifth force” (or sixth, since the fifth force is already spoken for) could be relevant to LENR relates to Takahashi’s TSC theory, or a revised version of it. This involves a Tetrahedral Symmetric Condensate … which, of course, has four vertices, or four active components – normally four deuterons. This is a very stable platonic solid form, and it can look very much like beryllium-8. This is sometimes called cluster fusion since more than two particles are involved. Four deuterons in the ultradense UDD state could react giving the fusion product or else the appearance of a 8Be atom which the Hungarians base everything on. If we want to go beyond Takahashi, fusion is NOT required -- merely the temporary formation of the tetrahedron, which has binding energy, followed by its energetic breakup back to deuterons – courtesy of the fifth force. Implied is asymmetry. That is one way to avoid the problem of lack of gamma radiation. Of course no one knows the expected ash, but if helium is found, then it is real cluster fusion – but this is highly unlikely IMO and otherwise, there would be a new type of gain based on 5th force dynamics. From: Stephen Cooke Very interesting especially if a new force is implied. I do wonder though if the neutron cross- section is implicated somehow. This can also have a size several times that of the nucleus. Although Li7 has even number of neutrons which would have a neutron cross-section smaller than Li6 say I guess they have considered that though, but maybe discounted it due to the interaction being with a proton. I'm curious if a proton could look like a neutron to a nucleus though if it is interacting in some way with the electron orbitals of the Li7. I previously wondered if this could lead to electron capture with the proton and conversion to a neutron, but perhaps stimulated positron emission could also be considered.
Re: [Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
Very interesting especially if a new force is implied. I do wonder though if the neutron cross- section is implicated somehow. This can also have a size several times that of the nucleus. Although Li7 has even number of neutrons which would have a neutron cross-section smaller than Li6 say I guess they have considered that though, but maybe discounted it due to the interaction being with a proton. I'm curious if a proton could look like a neutron to a nucleus though if it is interacting in some way with the electron orbitals of the Li7. I previously wondered if this could lead to electron capture with the proton and conversion to a neutron, but perhaps stimulated positron emission could also be considered. Ok highly speculative I know and would need QM proof which I guess maybe does not work when fully considered but so is a fifth force is pretty speculative too ;) > On 25 May 2016, at 18:36, Jones Beene wrote: > > Wow. This could definitely have implications for LENR. > > Surprised there is not more mention of it in the science news. > > SLAC has concluded that the particle could carry an extremely short-range > force that acts over distances only several times the width of an atomic > nucleus. This could be in the range of Holmlid’s claim for dense hydrogen. > > From: Russ George > > Here’s a lead on one of the great mysteries, just how is an electron coupled > to a neutron as clearly neutrons spit out electrons when they decay. > http://www.nature.com/news/has-a-hungarian-physics-lab-found-a-fifth-force-of-nature-1.19957 > > Of course if ordinary neutrons hold on to ordinary electrons, albeit weakly, > that could explain more than a few mysteries.
Re: [Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalous_magnetic_dipole_moment both the muon and the tau have dipole monments that don't add up in the standard model. This is what the dark force is all about... The search for dark photons and the g-2 anomaly http://theory.fnal.gov/jetp/talks/Rouven-Essig-Fermilab.pdf On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:25 PM, a.ashfield wrote: > The whole idea of a particle like a boson holding things together seems to > make little sense, unless particle is a bad name and it is like Carver > Mead's idea that an electron can be infinitely long. > >
Re: [Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
The whole idea of a particle like a boson holding things together seems to make little sense, unless particle is a bad name and it is like Carver Mead's idea that an electron can be infinitely long.
Re: [Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin%E2%80%93charge_separation The electron may be forming from the two more fundamental electron parts that show symmetry breaking at this 140 degree angle. This pre election might be a twister that contains all the fundamental parts of the electron and positron all contained inside. This could be a good thing for sting theory. It's bad news for the L&W theory since a boat load of energy is required to make the electron compatible with protons conversion to neutrons. On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 8:59 PM, John Berry wrote: > I should have said: And that only as a group and or over time or at a > distance does the fields become a smooth inverse square with > no irregularities, perturbations or features. > > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 12:56 PM, John Berry > wrote: > >> Maybe I'm missing something here, but all this strong, weak and 5th force >> nonsense... >> >> Couldn't it simply be that the electric field from a single subatomic >> particle isn't a perfect inverse square law field on the micro-scale >> especially at a single point in time, but has perturbations. maybe an axis >> related to spin. >> >> And that only as a group and or over time does the field become a smooth >> inverse square, indeed perhaps "lines of force" actually exist. >> >> This up close, packed into a nucleus or another tight cluster (Ken >> Shoulder electron charge cluster) the repulsion might be overcome. >> >> Not another force, just discontinuities in the electric field. >> >> Otherwise doesn't Ken Shoulders work point to a 6th force? >> >> John >> >> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Axil Axil wrote: >> >>> Thanks Russ, a great find. >>> >>> A new boson must carry a new force since bosons are force carriers. But >>> I wonder if this force could be something that comes out of the dirac >>> equations that has not been seen before experimentally, Maybe this new >>> particle is carrying the monopole charge? The experimenters should put this >>> particle in a magnetic field and see how it bends. >>> >>> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Russ George >>> wrote: >>> Here’s a lead on one of the great mysteries, just how is an electron coupled to a neutron as clearly neutrons spit out electrons when they decay. http://www.nature.com/news/has-a-hungarian-physics-lab-found-a-fifth-force-of-nature-1.19957 Of course if ordinary neutrons hold on to ordinary electrons, albeit weakly, that could explain more than a few mysteries. >>> >>> >> >
Re: [Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
I should have said: And that only as a group and or over time or at a distance does the fields become a smooth inverse square with no irregularities, perturbations or features. On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 12:56 PM, John Berry wrote: > Maybe I'm missing something here, but all this strong, weak and 5th force > nonsense... > > Couldn't it simply be that the electric field from a single subatomic > particle isn't a perfect inverse square law field on the micro-scale > especially at a single point in time, but has perturbations. maybe an axis > related to spin. > > And that only as a group and or over time does the field become a smooth > inverse square, indeed perhaps "lines of force" actually exist. > > This up close, packed into a nucleus or another tight cluster (Ken > Shoulder electron charge cluster) the repulsion might be overcome. > > Not another force, just discontinuities in the electric field. > > Otherwise doesn't Ken Shoulders work point to a 6th force? > > John > > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Axil Axil wrote: > >> Thanks Russ, a great find. >> >> A new boson must carry a new force since bosons are force carriers. But I >> wonder if this force could be something that comes out of the dirac >> equations that has not been seen before experimentally, Maybe this new >> particle is carrying the monopole charge? The experimenters should put this >> particle in a magnetic field and see how it bends. >> >> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Russ George >> wrote: >> >>> Here’s a lead on one of the great mysteries, just how is an electron >>> coupled to a neutron as clearly neutrons spit out electrons when they >>> decay. >>> http://www.nature.com/news/has-a-hungarian-physics-lab-found-a-fifth-force-of-nature-1.19957 >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course if ordinary neutrons hold on to ordinary electrons, albeit >>> weakly, that could explain more than a few mysteries. >>> >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
Maybe I'm missing something here, but all this strong, weak and 5th force nonsense... Couldn't it simply be that the electric field from a single subatomic particle isn't a perfect inverse square law field on the micro-scale especially at a single point in time, but has perturbations. maybe an axis related to spin. And that only as a group and or over time does the field become a smooth inverse square, indeed perhaps "lines of force" actually exist. This up close, packed into a nucleus or another tight cluster (Ken Shoulder electron charge cluster) the repulsion might be overcome. Not another force, just discontinuities in the electric field. Otherwise doesn't Ken Shoulders work point to a 6th force? John On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Axil Axil wrote: > Thanks Russ, a great find. > > A new boson must carry a new force since bosons are force carriers. But I > wonder if this force could be something that comes out of the dirac > equations that has not been seen before experimentally, Maybe this new > particle is carrying the monopole charge? The experimenters should put this > particle in a magnetic field and see how it bends. > > On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Russ George > wrote: > >> Here’s a lead on one of the great mysteries, just how is an electron >> coupled to a neutron as clearly neutrons spit out electrons when they >> decay. >> http://www.nature.com/news/has-a-hungarian-physics-lab-found-a-fifth-force-of-nature-1.19957 >> >> >> >> Of course if ordinary neutrons hold on to ordinary electrons, albeit >> weakly, that could explain more than a few mysteries. >> > >
Re: [Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
Thanks Russ, a great find. A new boson must carry a new force since bosons are force carriers. But I wonder if this force could be something that comes out of the dirac equations that has not been seen before experimentally, Maybe this new particle is carrying the monopole charge? The experimenters should put this particle in a magnetic field and see how it bends. On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Russ George wrote: > Here’s a lead on one of the great mysteries, just how is an electron > coupled to a neutron as clearly neutrons spit out electrons when they > decay. > http://www.nature.com/news/has-a-hungarian-physics-lab-found-a-fifth-force-of-nature-1.19957 > > > > Of course if ordinary neutrons hold on to ordinary electrons, albeit > weakly, that could explain more than a few mysteries. >
RE: [Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
Wow. This could definitely have implications for LENR. Surprised there is not more mention of it in the science news. SLAC has concluded that the particle could carry an extremely short-range force that acts over distances only several times the width of an atomic nucleus. This could be in the range of Holmlid’s claim for dense hydrogen. From: Russ George Here’s a lead on one of the great mysteries, just how is an electron coupled to a neutron as clearly neutrons spit out electrons when they decay. http://www.nature.com/news/has-a-hungarian-physics-lab-found-a-fifth-force-of-nature-1.19957 Of course if ordinary neutrons hold on to ordinary electrons, albeit weakly, that could explain more than a few mysteries.
[Vo]:New force couples electron to neutron
Here’s a lead on one of the great mysteries, just how is an electron coupled to a neutron as clearly neutrons spit out electrons when they decay. http://www.nature.com/news/has-a-hungarian-physics-lab-found-a-fifth-force-of-nature-1.19957 Of course if ordinary neutrons hold on to ordinary electrons, albeit weakly, that could explain more than a few mysteries.
