[Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
My dear friends. Tomorrow will take place the first public demo of Defkalion's Hyperion. Anticipating this Event, I have published today: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/defkalion-is-re-defining-success-in.html re my vision about Defkalion's professional virtues and: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/test-protocol-for-public-demo-test-code.html the essential protocol of the demo of Defkalion. I apologize for my lack of experience in publishing pdf. files on my Blogger blog, but anyway you will get the correct impression of this achievement. Please let me and my friends know about what you will learna nd conclude from these two demos and presentations Thank you! Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
From: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 11:26:41 AM Subject: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/test-protocol-for-public-demo-test-code.html the essential protocol of the demo of Defkalion. Cop of 1.1 Good enough for science, but not dramatic enough for PR. External power spot test using clamp meters. You'd think by now that they'd check for DC/Low frequency, oscilloscope etc.
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
What do people expect these demos will show? What could make them convincing or unconvincing? If you reply either publicly or privately, please let me know if I may cite your name if I quote you. [mg] On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: My dear friends. Tomorrow will take place the first public demo of Defkalion's Hyperion. Anticipating this Event, I have published today: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/defkalion-is-re-defining-success-in.html re my vision about Defkalion's professional virtues and: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/test-protocol-for-public-demo-test-code.html the essential protocol of the demo of Defkalion. I apologize for my lack of experience in publishing pdf. files on my Blogger blog, but anyway you will get the correct impression of this achievement. Please let me and my friends know about what you will learna nd conclude from these two demos and presentations Thank you! Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
On 2013-07-21 20:38, Alan Fletcher wrote: Cop of 1.1 Good enough for science, but not dramatic enough for PR. According to an insider [...] it will actually show a ~6-7x energy gain, which is 1.1x As usual the critical part will be measuring input energy. They will use this energy meter: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/579510.pdf Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
The people who found the e-cat 3rd party test unconvincing will also find this demonstration unconvincing. On the forums the naysayers are already ridiculing the CICAP participant. The press participants Raymond Zreick (italian Focus) and Mats Lewan (Nyteknik) will be dismissed as LENR-promoters. They will also think of something to say about the fourth participant Paolo Vitulo. Regarding the setup of the demontration: The demonstration was not a scientific validation, thus nothing was validated.; Defkalion was fully in control of the setup.; The wires were probably rigged.; They could not inspect the inside of the reactor. Yadda yadda yadda. Those who refuse to consider that this might be actually happening will ask for whatever was not done in the demonstration. On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote: What do people expect these demos will show? What could make them convincing or unconvincing? If you reply either publicly or privately, please let me know if I may cite your name if I quote you. [mg] On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote: My dear friends. Tomorrow will take place the first public demo of Defkalion's Hyperion. Anticipating this Event, I have published today: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/defkalion-is-re-defining-success-in.html re my vision about Defkalion's professional virtues and: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/test-protocol-for-public-demo-test-code.html the essential protocol of the demo of Defkalion. I apologize for my lack of experience in publishing pdf. files on my Blogger blog, but anyway you will get the correct impression of this achievement. Please let me and my friends know about what you will learna nd conclude from these two demos and presentations Thank you! Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
To be fair, they have a point. Why bother with the CICAP guy? All the guy can really do is shrug his shoulders and say it looked interesting but open to fraud. Simple undeniable fact - until schematics are released for third party replication (after patents applied for), the world will not be convinced and these demos are just for the fans. The fact that Defkalion and Rossi haven't done this in a credible way makes me wonder if they are frauds. On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Moab Moab moab2...@googlemail.com wrote: The people who found the e-cat 3rd party test unconvincing will also find this demonstration unconvincing. On the forums the naysayers are already ridiculing the CICAP participant. The press participants Raymond Zreick (italian Focus) and Mats Lewan (Nyteknik) will be dismissed as LENR-promoters. They will also think of something to say about the fourth participant Paolo Vitulo. Regarding the setup of the demontration: The demonstration was not a scientific validation, thus nothing was validated.; Defkalion was fully in control of the setup.; The wires were probably rigged.; They could not inspect the inside of the reactor. Yadda yadda yadda. Those who refuse to consider that this might be actually happening will ask for whatever was not done in the demonstration. On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote: What do people expect these demos will show? What could make them convincing or unconvincing? If you reply either publicly or privately, please let me know if I may cite your name if I quote you. [mg] On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote: My dear friends. Tomorrow will take place the first public demo of Defkalion's Hyperion. Anticipating this Event, I have published today: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/defkalion-is-re-defining-success-in.html re my vision about Defkalion's professional virtues and: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/test-protocol-for-public-demo-test-code.html the essential protocol of the demo of Defkalion. I apologize for my lack of experience in publishing pdf. files on my Blogger blog, but anyway you will get the correct impression of this achievement. Please let me and my friends know about what you will learna nd conclude from these two demos and presentations Thank you! Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
From: Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:04:09 PM As usual the critical part will be measuring input energy. They will use this energy meter: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/579510.pdf Range: 45 to 65Hz; It doesn't even seem to be broadband. ie No DC / LF / HF -- depending on the clamps used, most likely AC only.
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
Mistoro on 22passi give more details. http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?2136-Defkalion-Demo-During-ICCF-18-(Milano-)p=5502#post5502 the reactor have started and the COP is increasing from 6, probably above 7... the COP1.1 is the same target as the Nelson test, but it is a minimum to rule out failure... Nelson found COP3 are low temperature. I did not understand all the googlish from Mistero Italian message. 2013/7/21 Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com What do people expect these demos will show? What could make them convincing or unconvincing? If you reply either publicly or privately, please let me know if I may cite your name if I quote you. [mg] On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote: My dear friends. Tomorrow will take place the first public demo of Defkalion's Hyperion. Anticipating this Event, I have published today: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/defkalion-is-re-defining-success-in.html re my vision about Defkalion's professional virtues and: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/test-protocol-for-public-demo-test-code.html the essential protocol of the demo of Defkalion. I apologize for my lack of experience in publishing pdf. files on my Blogger blog, but anyway you will get the correct impression of this achievement. Please let me and my friends know about what you will learna nd conclude from these two demos and presentations Thank you! Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
OUTPUT Load: VON 2.5 VAC/DC max. 70 mA, VOFF 260 VAC/DC max It seems capable of displaying DC. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
From: Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:55:37 PM= OUTPUT Load: VON 2.5 VAC/DC max. 70 mA, VOFF 260 VAC/DC max It seems capable of displaying DC. That's *OUTPUT*, not *INPUT* : it sends a series of PULSES (AC or DC) to an external meter based on the calculated TRMS power.
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
So, it is capable of measuring AC power, it doesn't filter it out. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
if the AC voltage is good sinusoid, there is no more need to measure harmonics current. they hold no active power. note the tha 45-65Hz is the self-power constraints, not the spectrum analysis ability. the sampling is 1600 samples/s @ 50Hz, thus 800Hz. if one can ruleout huge voltage above 800Hz, there is no place for fraud. this is not a wideband powermetter, but with some honesty among observers and some checking about DC and HF voltage, it is much enough... this mean it won't be convincing the nay-believers who will hide their delusion in any shadow even if they make it with lies and incompetence, like theyr did for Rossi. MY already started with triphase... I expect much from thermocouples (forgetting the range of errord needed to explain null result). 2013/7/21 Alan Fletcher a...@well.com From: Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:04:09 PM As usual the critical part will be measuring input energy. They will use this energy meter: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/579510.pdf Range: 45 to 65Hz; It doesn't even seem to be broadband. ie No DC / LF / HF -- depending on the clamps used, most likely AC only.
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
From: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 11:26:41 AM Any confirmation that there will be a live demonstration at ICCF-18 (Tuesday)?
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
There have been a _lot_ of suggested techniques to make these public tests more convincing. One suggestion from the pseudonymous GoatGuy, who will probably change the goal posts if the suggestion is taken, is bulk calorimetry: recirculating the cooling water with the bulk of it buffered in a highly insulated tank. This integrates the power in a way that is less prone to accumulating errors than is flow calorimetry. Of course, it also ignores the fact that temperature control is critical to the reactor stability so it may not be practical for this technology. You'd need temperature-driven variable flow-rate. On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote: What do people expect these demos will show? What could make them convincing or unconvincing? If you reply either publicly or privately, please let me know if I may cite your name if I quote you. [mg] On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote: My dear friends. Tomorrow will take place the first public demo of Defkalion's Hyperion. Anticipating this Event, I have published today: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/defkalion-is-re-defining-success-in.html re my vision about Defkalion's professional virtues and: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/test-protocol-for-public-demo-test-code.html the essential protocol of the demo of Defkalion. I apologize for my lack of experience in publishing pdf. files on my Blogger blog, but anyway you will get the correct impression of this achievement. Please let me and my friends know about what you will learna nd conclude from these two demos and presentations Thank you! Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
http://prod.sandia.gov/techlib/access-control.cgi/2009/097874.pdf SANDIA REPORT SAND2009-7874 Unlimited Release Printed November 2009 LDRD 140639 Final Report: Investigation of Transmutation Claims Curtis D. Mowry, J. Pace Van Devender, Jeffrey E. Reich, Richard P. Grant, and James A. Ohlhausen CONCLUSIONS The Proton-21 Laboratory in the Ukraine has been publishing results on shock-induced transmutation of several elements, including Cobalt 60 into non-radioactive elements. We have developed and exercised a process to detect possible shock-wave-induced transmutation products and to unambiguously validate or invalidate the claims in collaboration with the Proton-21 Laboratory. We found elevated and localized concentrations of impurity elements like the Ukrainian’s report in our sample, but all our results are consistent with the ejection of impurities that were not in solution in our alloy, were deposited from the cathode during irradiation, or could be from surface contamination although the surface contamination cannot be validated. We are positioned to test samples from Proton-21 if funded to do so. If we do proceed with testing the Proton-21 samples, the control of starting sample and hardware is critical. Multiple methods are necessary to provide complimentary sampling volumes, different trade-offs for cost and detection limits, and different mapping and quantification abilities. Multi-disciplinary inputs will be needed in the fields of metallurgy, chemistry, and physics. Step-wise analysis is useful as shown in this work; additional techniques were available but not needed. Initial measurements provide guidance for more sophisticated and expensive measurements. - This is how professional scientist respond to solid evidence of LENR reactions. They just don't believe it. To them, it can't be true, it must be contamination from somewhere but we can't find out where these transmutation products are coming from. Send us more money and we will do more testing that we still can't believe in. I am coming to the opinion that science is very much like a religion where faith is require to look at unexplained evidence. This is why a theory steeped in well established scientific principles must precede the presentation of experimental fact. We must explain the facts before they are observed to make an impact on the scientific belief system. The greats in science will become curious and begin the journey to truth. But for the mediocre majority, no belief is possible. Where brother John sits in this belief system is yet to be determined. Science will reject the upcoming demonstrations. These demos will be more impactful for those with fewer scientific preconceptions. On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 6:34 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: There have been a _lot_ of suggested techniques to make these public tests more convincing. One suggestion from the pseudonymous GoatGuy, who will probably change the goal posts if the suggestion is taken, is bulk calorimetry: recirculating the cooling water with the bulk of it buffered in a highly insulated tank. This integrates the power in a way that is less prone to accumulating errors than is flow calorimetry. Of course, it also ignores the fact that temperature control is critical to the reactor stability so it may not be practical for this technology. You'd need temperature-driven variable flow-rate. On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote: What do people expect these demos will show? What could make them convincing or unconvincing? If you reply either publicly or privately, please let me know if I may cite your name if I quote you. [mg] On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote: My dear friends. Tomorrow will take place the first public demo of Defkalion's Hyperion. Anticipating this Event, I have published today: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/defkalion-is-re-defining-success-in.html re my vision about Defkalion's professional virtues and: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/test-protocol-for-public-demo-test-code.html the essential protocol of the demo of Defkalion. I apologize for my lack of experience in publishing pdf. files on my Blogger blog, but anyway you will get the correct impression of this achievement. Please let me and my friends know about what you will learna nd conclude from these two demos and presentations Thank you! Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Moab Moab moab2...@googlemail.com wrote: Regarding the setup of the demontration: The demonstration was not a scientific validation, thus nothing was validated.; Defkalion was fully in control of the setup.; The wires were probably rigged.; They could not inspect the inside of the reactor. Yadda yadda yadda. To be honest, I think this type of criticism is both predictable, and, to a certain extent, avoidable. We've seen that it is hard or impossible to convince some critics; they've already made up their mind and are happy to argue themselves into absurd what-if scenarios. But many of their complaints are ones that can be learned from (such as the ammeter issue in the recent Elforsk test) and, in future experiments, addressed. If a commercial entity plans to run a third-party verification, they should try to learn from past mistakes. If they do not, they have only themselves to blame when the predictable criticisms come in. The bottom line is that in any of the vendor demonstrations we usually have one of the following: - a sales promotion that is without any kind of rigor and is just put on to attract attention and bring in new customer references (intended audience: the general public). - a third-party black-box verification that suffers from serious flaws (intended audience: academics and informed decision makers). - a third-party black-box verification that is both independent and difficult to criticize (intended audience: academics and informed decision makers). It is the choice of vendors which approach to take. They should not make the mistake of assuming that observers will confuse the different cases and try to pass a demonstration of one kind off as another kind. They should choose their audience and, on this basis, adopt a strategy that will be effective. It is also within their control to arrange for a demonstration that does not suffer from serious flaws by consulting the right people beforehand. If they cannot do any of these things, they should consider not demoing at all; this is one of the reasons many startups stay in stealth mode for a while, so that they can come up with something that is fully cooked before showing it to the world. These are general comments and do not necessarily apply to the Defkalion/CICAP test. They may apply to the Defkalion ICCF-18 demo, but I have not followed the details closely. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: - a third-party black-box verification that is both independent and difficult to criticize (intended audience: academics and informed decision makers). It is the choice of vendors which approach to take. They should not make the mistake of assuming that observers will confuse the different cases and try to pass a demonstration of one kind off as another kind. They should choose their audience and, on this basis, adopt a strategy that will be effective. It is also within their control to arrange for a demonstration that does not suffer from serious flaws by consulting the right people beforehand. Well said! Quite right. People in technical sales do this for a living. It can be done right. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Preparing for the Defkalion demos of 22 and 23 July
Rossi has shown Defkalion Green Technologies that it was possible to build a functional and powerful Ni/H reactor. And that is all he did. This singular revelation inspired in them an instance of faith that miracles are possible as wrought by the enfeebled hands of man in contravention of all common sense and scientific beliefs. Defkalion has revealed far more then they ever got from Rossi to help others on their way to similar faith. For have no doubt, faith both strong and certain is the indispensable gift that can drive the most common of men to great accomplishments. What gives others the right to demand additional information? Do they require more evidence to bolster their faith like doubting Thomas, a skeptic who refused to believe without direct personal experience, to cover his fingers in the flowing blood as proof of the miracle that he so long denied was possible? Faith is something that clashes easily with the common sense that currently permeates this world. Faith can be faith only, because it shows clearly about the worldview beyond this limited one we now live in. It inspires, and explains in crystal clarity a new paradigm of values, values that surpass and surmount the conventional. It is capable of presenting the Truth that cannot be found in this current strangled worldview. That is why this new birth of faith and the conventional scientific belief system we all suffer under are inevitably in conflict with each other. Defkalion may well have surpassed Rossi in the unfathomable technology that they are fielding; are they different of are they the same; we just don’t know; but why give tight fisted Rossi something that he was not willing to share with others. As the patent law stands now, I am sure there are minds as brilliant and inspired as those plying their trade at Defkalion in a world filled with brilliant minds. When all who are interested and inspired by steadfast faith are set to task, the time to discovery will be short. Who is actually responsible for the billions upon billions lost as a consequence of the folly of man? Clearly it’s not Defkalion, They only seek to abide by the intellectual property practices and rules currently set in place long ago and hope that these unfair rules are changed as rapidly as possible. Amend that infamous law and make it receptive to and bestow recognition of overunity technologies. When inspired and motivated by the events beginning tomorrow, with the full force of the law as applied to most other inventions, allow Defkalion to file a patent that will permit others skilled in the art upon its detailed study and contemplation to readily duplicate what will have been demonstrated in the upcoming days and weeks. Until then the only value to be gained from these demos is faith that miracles can happen. On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: My dear friends. Tomorrow will take place the first public demo of Defkalion's Hyperion. Anticipating this Event, I have published today: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/defkalion-is-re-defining-success-in.html re my vision about Defkalion's professional virtues and: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/07/test-protocol-for-public-demo-test-code.html the essential protocol of the demo of Defkalion. I apologize for my lack of experience in publishing pdf. files on my Blogger blog, but anyway you will get the correct impression of this achievement. Please let me and my friends know about what you will learna nd conclude from these two demos and presentations Thank you! Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
