Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[Terry Blanton]

Hamdi responds:

To Vortex:

It is easy to rule out induction:

1. Simulations gave experiments results. Fig. 6.2 and 6.3.

2. The key effect of the levitation is the repulsion and it is inversely
proportional to the square of rotating field frequency as shown Fig. 5.25.
Anyone can measure this repulsion by putting a magnet of any kind and any
shape and in any orientation on a soft spongy block on a balance and
approach another rotating magnet where it's poles are well aligned, lying
on the rotation plane. That is orthogonal to the rotation axis. Since
magnets have some factory misalignment, there is a need for a control
experiment. This is gluing the test magnet to a marble block at least half
kg through one of its pole and put this block again on the balance again
over a cushion. This marble block would suppress vibration of the test
magnet when subjected to the rotating field. If the rotating magnet is well
aligned, balance will register zero or few tens mg force. supposing the
rotating magnet has a speed above 6000 RPM and the gap between magnets is
about 10 - 20 mm. If the balance reading does not even get decrease by
increasing the speed, for example at 12000 RPM, one can conclude that the
rotating magnet alignment is not good. Finally having good alignment, real
test can be started. One can immediately will see the balance will start to
register loads starting from grams up to 100 grams at 3000 to 6000 RPM. By
increasing the speed the load will be decreased as I specified by the above
relation. From this test one can see the registered force is dependent to
the vibration of the test magnet in contrast to the force caused by
induction is not.

3. Section 5.2 is dedicated to calculation of this force based of angular
vibration of the test magnet by exclusion of its translational vibration.
That one is evaluated on section 5.4.6.

4. Check experiments shown at Fig. 5.33 to 5.35. Videos of these exp. are
on the Dropbox link. If one tries to levitate this magnet with induction
the magnet would be hot enough for not to  touch after a while.

5. I also tested inductive repulsion on conductors like iron, steel or
inox. They become hot before get repelled some. One can try it by putting
an inox piece on a balance and inductively push it.

6.Again contracticting to inductive force, one needs lower rotation speeds
to levitate bigger magnets. A 100 gr magnet can be levitated with a speed
between 2000 - 3000 RPM.

===

Beaty: So Hamdi, are there any "Levitron" analogous effects?  Can you run
this at




*50,000RPM or something?  Does the restoring force get any less?  Or,
toproduce an energy-well, must the levitated magnet be free to
slightlyvibrate?  (Try motor-assembly placed in a plastic pipe w/air pumped
out,so motor-watts during the extreme RPM need not be enormous, if no
airturbulence.)*

The exp. on Fig 1.1 is running at 105000 RPM.
Despite the repulsion force is inversely proportional to speed squared it
is also inversely prop to moment of inertia (MoI) of the levitated magnet.
Since the MoI of this magnet is so small, it allows to obtain an enough
repulsion force at this speed.

==


On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:23 PM William Beaty  wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020, Terry Blanton wrote:
> > and suspend it in the spinning magnet's field regardless of the
> > polarity of the stationary magnetic. A search showed that no one
> > appears to have ever reported nor explained this phenomenon.
>
> I just assumed it was energy-wells created by inductive repulsion.
> Guess not!
>
> Hamdi, if you have ambition, duplicate some of your setups with ALL
> CONDUCTORS REMOVED.  Or at the very least, use one insulating rubberized
> supermagnet for the rotating portion, and any old supermagnet for the
> non-rotator.  This eliminates the electric currents and the
> induction-maglev artifact.
>
> I think "bonded" neo supermagnets are still available, made of neo alloy
> powder, mixed in flexible "rubber" polymer, so, non-conductive (but also
> there are no one-tesla neo rubber-magnets.)
>
> (No, I DON'T think Hamdi's discovery is just induction.  But induction
> creates artifacts.  So perhaps slap together a quick version which lacks
> the rotating conductors.  Verify that the phenomenon still appears.)
>
> High-speed rotating conductors, placed near magnets, have energy-wells.
> This includes high-speed rotating neo magnets.  That one infamous
> two-pipes maglev-device on my website is just one of many, many
> topologies.  E.g., two thick copper strips placed parallel, moving fast in
> opposite directions, should stably suspend any supermagnet placed in the
> gap between them.  Two thick copper disks, touching edges and rotating
> opposite, have an energy-well in the "cleft" between them, and will
> suspend a small supermagnet cylinder or disk.  My favorite is a rotating
> copper donut w/wide hole, with a rotating copper disk placed in the hole,
> and a significant slot between the two, 

Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[William Beaty]

There were a bunch of physics papers on the Levitron's physics.

Their discoveries:  1) Levitron only works within a narrow range of RPM. 
Too slow, and the levitated spinning magnet becomes unstable.  Too fast, 
and the energy-well disappears!  2) the levitated spinning disk MUST be 
allowed to precess freely.  If precession is inhibited, the energy-well 
disappears.  (Which of course explains why an extreme RPM will remove the 
necessary small precession required for stable levitation.)


  Levitron, hidden history

  http://www.roddriver.com/index_science.html

  http://amasci.com/maglev/lev/expose1.html

---

So Hamdi, are there any "Levitron" analogous effects?  Can you run this at 
50,000RPM or something?  Does the restoring force get any less?  Or, to 
produce an energy-well, must the levitated magnet be free to slightly 
vibrate?  (Try motor-assembly placed in a plastic pipe w/air pumped out, 
so motor-watts during the extreme RPM need not be enormous, if no air 
turbulence.)



On Fri, 4 Sep 2020, Terry Blanton wrote:

One of the things previously discussed is possible applications for
such a phenomenon.  Other than a toy similar to Levitron, none of us
have been creative enough to come up with anything.


Heh, need a radioactive airline-flight!

Or just stay awake for a month using micro-sleep, a la Nikola Tesla, see:

 https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-become-as-much-of-a-genius-as-Nikola-Tesla

About toy inventions...

Note that "Levitron" was immediately stolen by the very first toy company 
immediately after the inventor showed it to them.  The inventor never made 
a cent.  The current Levitron-seller (in Seattle!) is the thief.  Yet the 
inventor had already patented his device.  Didn't matter.  The thief 
immediately patented his own, but with a square base-magnet, while loudly 
insisting that a round base would not work (wrong, actually.)


Just from my own slight experience, I personally found that the 
professional toy business is EXTREMELY cut-throat, and full of 
patholigical criminals, narcissist-liars, and all of them in top 
positions.  To succeed in the toy biz, you need to be an employee, or 
perhaps a long-time famous inventor, in a solid relationship with a big 
manufacturer (where they dare not offend the "goose" who keeps laying 
their golden eggs.)


That, or start your own small business, and expect your successful toy to 
be stolen by overseas toy manufacturers in 1-5 years ...so you'd need to 
already have numerous new toy-inventions in the pipeline, as older ones 
get stolen, and newer ones start making profits.  (Patent fees, and lawyer 
fees for patent defense, would instantly wipe out all profits.  So don't 
ever patent nuthun!)


Heh, investment scam! Suspend your motor+magnet inside a completely 
soundproof capsule (perhaps a little glass vacuum globe.)  Then do a scam: 
room temperature super-conductors now achieved!  Your investors could even 
be allowed to handle the magic box that performs the levitation!  With 
sufficiently good bearings, and no air-friction, perhaps the batteries 
would run the motor for days!  lol



Personally, I have wondered if the suspended magnet could be easily
"handed off" to another, adjacent magnet; thus, setting up the
possibility of a new type of maglev transportation device.


Motors driving spinning dipole magnets, if placed near each other, should 
naturallylock on and synchronize.  Then, what's the actual shape of the 
energy-well? If it could become a long narrow slot, then it might be easy 
to drive a suspended magnet along it.  Let it slide downhill under 
gravity.  "Superconductive" train model, just like with HTSC copper-oxide 
materials, but no liquid nitrogen required.



(( ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) )))
William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 4:23 PM William Beaty  wrote:

> Native American shaman apparently used this trick.
>

Goodness, Bill.  Why expose the rest of your body to ionizing radiation
when one of your fellow Washingtonians, Paul Stamets, has a much better way:

https://youtu.be/1Q0un2GPsSQ

And you don't need cubensis to improve your thinking.   Hericium erinaceus
seem to have some remarkable effects.

Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[William Beaty]

On Thu, 3 Sep 2020, Terry Blanton wrote:

and suspend it in the spinning magnet's field regardless of the
polarity of the stationary magnetic. A search showed that no one
appears to have ever reported nor explained this phenomenon.


I just assumed it was energy-wells created by inductive repulsion.
Guess not!

Hamdi, if you have ambition, duplicate some of your setups with ALL 
CONDUCTORS REMOVED.  Or at the very least, use one insulating rubberized 
supermagnet for the rotating portion, and any old supermagnet for the 
non-rotator.  This eliminates the electric currents and the 
induction-maglev artifact.


I think "bonded" neo supermagnets are still available, made of neo alloy 
powder, mixed in flexible "rubber" polymer, so, non-conductive (but also 
there are no one-tesla neo rubber-magnets.)


(No, I DON'T think Hamdi's discovery is just induction.  But induction 
creates artifacts.  So perhaps slap together a quick version which lacks 
the rotating conductors.  Verify that the phenomenon still appears.)


High-speed rotating conductors, placed near magnets, have energy-wells. 
This includes high-speed rotating neo magnets.  That one infamous 
two-pipes maglev-device on my website is just one of many, many 
topologies.  E.g., two thick copper strips placed parallel, moving fast in 
opposite directions, should stably suspend any supermagnet placed in the 
gap between them.  Two thick copper disks, touching edges and rotating 
opposite, have an energy-well in the "cleft" between them, and will 
suspend a small supermagnet cylinder or disk.  My favorite is a rotating 
copper donut w/wide hole, with a rotating copper disk placed in the hole, 
and a significant slot between the two, with the two rotating opposite 
(~w/30mph surface speed.)  Then, place neo supermagnets in the circular 
slot, and adjust the RPMs of the copper parts so the suspended magnet 
doesn't move.  (I haven't built that one.  I didn't have a 500watt DC 
motor at the time.)


All these are utterly conventional physics, as far as I know.

But they could produce mysterious artifacts, when in any experiment 
involving high-speed rotating supermagnets, where the supermagnets are 
made of conductor, rather than of flexible-magnet composite material where 
no hundred-ampere induced currents are possible.


  (Heh, all these variation appeared in my mind while it was really easy
   to think.  Not at 5AM in darkness, as is typical.  Instead, it was on a
   airline flight (Seatac to SF,) with my head bathed in cosmic radiation
   which makes a geiger counter roar.  All miles-high plane flights expose
   us to many millirems.  So, try it yourself: always bring a blank
   notebook on the flight, and try working on old ideas etc., see if
   you make sudden enormous progress with new concepts flooding in.  I
   always do this, and as a result, invariably solve problems, or get new
   insights, harvest "good stuff from the Aether.")

Native American shaman apparently used this trick.  But they employed 
caves having either massive Radon outgassing, or very "hot" mineral 
deposits.  Brains bathed in low-level x-rays, such as on airline flights, 
will slip into slightly-altered, creative states.)


  http://amasci.com/maglev/magroll.html

  Dangerous high-speed maglev device
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glCNP6qH_Dc





https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202009.0001/v1

If the pictures are not enough to interest you, here are numerous
videos of his demonstration of the phenomenon:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k16o8tomnvd0i4g/AABZtpUcSwpH7Ae6DRmSjJQta

If anyone does have any comments or questions, I will be happy to
forward them to Hamdi or put you in touch with him after I get his
permission.



(( ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) )))
William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Sounds interesting albeit I did not dig in very deep.

From SO(4) physics modelling we know that two orthogonally rotating 
magnetic "masses" (flux) can generate a topological charge if these 
start a third winding. What he calls the weak force is the second torus 
rotating axes as all natural flux is generated by toroidal sources. 
Because this second radius effect is tiny most people do neglect it. But 
all EM fields have so called toroidal components if you do not carefully 
design the sender to minimize them.


It would be interesting to see whether he can measure the second radius 
induced force in relation to the first radius one.


Just to remind everybody: There is no magnetic force just based on a 
magnet field. The force always works indirectly on charge/virtual charge !



J.W.

On 08.09.2020 18:37, Terry Blanton wrote:



On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 1:18 PM Jones Beene > wrote:

>
> One thought that comes up in designing a transportation device is 
combining the Hamdi effect with "printed" magnets. Not sure if this 
was mentioned in the earlier thread.

>
> There are several companies doing the printed field scheme and there 
could be synergy with spinning a specially designed pattern.

>
> 
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a20023/printed-magnets-polymagnets-smarter-every-day/ 



Jones,

I thought I had posted Hamdi's response to your comment; but, I can't 
seem to find it.  I guess it's better to post it twice than not at all:


*/Motion is defined by the rotation matrix 5.7 and the model is 
validated by the solution 5.23 as the angular acceleration vector 
derived from rotation matrix and the magnetic torque vector derived 
from body orientation and the vector of the rotating field have same 
unit vectors. There is a simulation animation on these videos 
MBS-bounce.. Webm where the above equation applies to top body 
(cylender) and the bottom object is also a free body consisting a 
spherical magnet with a plastic ring around. /*

*/
/*
*/My main motivation about this reseach is it might show a way to 
explain some quantum phenomena without quantum mechanics. /*

*/
/*
*/
/*
*/For example the Stern—Gerlach experiment which show the 
two—valueness of electron magnetic orientation can be obtained by a 
hypothetical magnetic object which can align to an external magnetic 
field both parallel and antiparallel. Actually the effect I discovered 
called torque-phi in my work is similar to this. /*

*/
/*
*/While the alignments of electrons in SG experiment in the brief time 
while Ag atoms travel between magnets is said it is impossible, but 
actually Paul Trap is based on this alignment and you need a small 
field strength to keep proper magnetic orientation of trapped 
particles. /*

*/
/*
*/In this view, SG experiment simply show bipolar alignment of Ag 
atoms under an external field. /*

*/
/*
*/However in QM interpretation of SG it is said that electrons are 
already polarized prior to subject SG magnets in a misterious way 
since according QM spin has only two orientations up and down 
regardless to reference direction, something unphysical but can be 
modeled mathematically using QM. /*


--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 1:18 PM Jones Beene  wrote:
>
> One thought that comes up in designing a transportation device is
combining the Hamdi effect with "printed" magnets. Not sure if this was
mentioned in the earlier thread.
>
> There are several companies doing the printed field scheme and there
could be synergy with spinning a specially designed pattern.
>
>
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a20023/printed-magnets-polymagnets-smarter-every-day/

Jones,

I thought I had posted Hamdi's response to your comment; but, I can't seem
to find it.  I guess it's better to post it twice than not at all:

*Motion is defined by the rotation matrix 5.7 and the model is validated by
the solution 5.23 as the angular acceleration vector derived from rotation
matrix and the magnetic torque vector derived from body orientation and the
vector of the rotating field have same unit vectors. There is a simulation
animation on these videos MBS-bounce.. Webm where the above equation
applies to top body (cylender) and the bottom object is also a free body
consisting a spherical magnet with a plastic ring around. *

*My main motivation about this reseach is it might show a way to explain
some quantum phenomena without quantum mechanics. *


*For example the Stern—Gerlach experiment which show the two—valueness of
electron magnetic orientation can be obtained by a hypothetical magnetic
object which can align to an external magnetic field both parallel and
antiparallel. Actually the effect I discovered called torque-phi in my work
is similar to this. *

*While the alignments of electrons in SG experiment in the brief time while
Ag atoms travel between magnets is said it is impossible, but actually Paul
Trap is based on this alignment and you need a small field strength to keep
proper magnetic orientation of trapped particles. *

*In this view, SG experiment simply show bipolar alignment of Ag atoms
under an external field. *

*However in QM interpretation of SG it is said that electrons are already
polarized prior to subject SG magnets in a misterious way since according
QM spin has only two orientations up and down regardless to reference
direction, something unphysical but can be modeled mathematically using
QM. *

Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[Terry Blanton]

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 12:17 PM Michael Foster  wrote:
>
> This phenomenon is truly remarkable. I tried reading the paper and now my
head hurts. From what I gather,
> numerous "scientists" are circling the wagons to debunk this work.
>
> Has anyone replicated?  It seems like a replication attempt wouldn't be
too difficult or prohibitively expensive.

The hardest part of any replication is affixing the rotating magnet to the
motor.  It is almost trivial.

If only it were true that someone was trying to debunk the phenomenon.  Mr.
Ucar is having trouble getting anyone to publish his work.  I copy him on
most relevant posts; so, if anyone has any suggestions, please speak up.
Suggestions on where to publish or any potential applications are welcomed!

Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[Michael Foster]

This phenomenon is truly remarkable. I tried reading the paper and now my head 
hurts. From what I gather,
numerous "scientists" are circling the wagons to debunk this work.

Has anyone replicated?  It seems like a replication attempt wouldn't be too 
difficult or prohibitively expensive.

Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[Jones Beene]

 One thought that comes up in designing a transportation device is combining 
the Hamdi effect with "printed" magnets. Not sure if this was mentioned in the 
earlier thread.
There are several companies doing the printed field scheme and there could be 
synergy with spinning a specially designed pattern.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a20023/printed-magnets-polymagnets-smarter-every-day/
Who knows?

Jones

Terry Blanton wrote:
 
 > One of the things previously discussed is possible applications for
such a phenomenon.  Other than a toy similar to Levitron, none of us
have been creative enough to come up with anything...Personally, I 
have wondered if the suspended magnet could be easily
"handed off" to another, adjacent magnet; thus, setting up the
possibility of a new type of maglev transportation device.


  

Re: [Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[Terry Blanton]

You are welcome.

One of the things previously discussed is possible applications for
such a phenomenon.  Other than a toy similar to Levitron, none of us
have been creative enough to come up with anything.

Personally, I have wondered if the suspended magnet could be easily
"handed off" to another, adjacent magnet; thus, setting up the
possibility of a new type of maglev transportation device.

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 10:58 AM Don86326  wrote:
>
> Thank you for sharing that very interesting demonstration of Ucar's work.
>
> On 9/3/2020 8:52 AM, Terry Blanton wrote:
> > Five years ago, a Hamdi Ucar showed Vortex a magnetic phenomenon he
> > stumbled across. It was something similar to Levitron except that it
> > involved the ability of a spinning magnetic to trap another magnetic
> > and suspend it in the spinning magnet's field regardless of the
> > polarity of the stationary magnetic. A search showed that no one
> > appears to have ever reported nor explained this phenomenon.
> >
> > Since then, he has written a paper explaining the phenomenon and is
> > attempting to get it published. Here is a preprint of the paper
> > (caution: it is massive):
> >
> > https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202009.0001/v1
> >
> > If the pictures are not enough to interest you, here are numerous
> > videos of his demonstration of the phenomenon:
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k16o8tomnvd0i4g/AABZtpUcSwpH7Ae6DRmSjJQta
> >
> > If anyone does have any comments or questions, I will be happy to
> > forward them to Hamdi or put you in touch with him after I get his
> > permission.
> >
> --
> Stay hydrated!
>

[Vo]:Unexplained Magnetic Phenomenon EXPLAINED

[Terry Blanton]

Five years ago, a Hamdi Ucar showed Vortex a magnetic phenomenon he
stumbled across. It was something similar to Levitron except that it
involved the ability of a spinning magnetic to trap another magnetic
and suspend it in the spinning magnet's field regardless of the
polarity of the stationary magnetic. A search showed that no one
appears to have ever reported nor explained this phenomenon.

Since then, he has written a paper explaining the phenomenon and is
attempting to get it published. Here is a preprint of the paper
(caution: it is massive):

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202009.0001/v1

If the pictures are not enough to interest you, here are numerous
videos of his demonstration of the phenomenon:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k16o8tomnvd0i4g/AABZtpUcSwpH7Ae6DRmSjJQta

If anyone does have any comments or questions, I will be happy to
forward them to Hamdi or put you in touch with him after I get his
permission.