RE: [Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)
Robin— I agree with your obvious conclusion when nit comes to terminology standard for batteries r that provide for release of potential chemical energy stored in the battery’s electrons. To use battery terminology for LEC is confusing the actual source of the potential energy observed in LEC. Bob Cook From: Robin<mailto:mixent...@aussiebroadband.com.au> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 5:33 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC) In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:22:58 -0500: Hi, PS - At the risk of stating the obvious, the internal resistance can be determined by dividing the open circuit voltage by the short circuit current.
Re: [Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:22:58 -0500: Hi, PS - At the risk of stating the obvious, the internal resistance can be determined by dividing the open circuit voltage by the short circuit current.
Re: [Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)
Robin wrote: > >work function where metal ions are transported by well known chemical > >reactions through a liquid electrolyte in between the electrodes. > > Not always. There are "dry-cells" (not really very dry), and also cells > with a solid electrolyte. > > >has similarities with a nuclear or atomic battery without the hazardous > >radiation and they don't increase output with temperature. We settled on > >calling it a LEC, > > Transporting gas ions may well result in a cell that has a high internal > resistance. This may well explain why it acts > as current source rather than a voltage source . . . Frank says this is right. He will address these issues. This kind of comment is helpful. I have been urging him to gather up his comments from the slides and from discussions like this, organize them, and put them into a sort of Guidebook To The Experiment. I think he is doing that. It is better to have all the details in one document, rather than having them only available in bits and pieces scattered around the internet in discussion groups.
Re: [Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 28 Jan 2021 20:22:58 -0500: Hi, [snip] >With regard to the possibility that the LEC is a battery: A LEC has many >similarities to a battery and we debated calling it a Hydrogen Ion Battery >but a LEC is much more. A battery is basically two electrodes of different >work function where metal ions are transported by well known chemical >reactions through a liquid electrolyte in between the electrodes. Not always. There are "dry-cells" (not really very dry), and also cells with a solid electrolyte. >The LEC >does not have a liquid electrolyte and a LEC produces and transports gas >ions. A battery is also a voltage source and a LEC acts like a current >source. The output of a battery does not increase with temperature. A LEC >has similarities with a nuclear or atomic battery without the hazardous >radiation and they don't increase output with temperature. We settled on >calling it a LEC, Transporting gas ions may well result in a cell that has a high internal resistance. This may well explain why it acts as current source rather than a voltage source, depending on the resistance of the load compared to that of the internal resistance. In order to know that the device acts as a current source, one would need to measure the current. Current measurements are usually made with devices that deliberately have a low internal resistance, so as not to influence the measurement. [snip]
Re: [Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)
I asked Frank to address this issue of batteries. He posted a reply at LENR-Forum, as follows: https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/6508-frank-gordon-s-lattice-energy-converter-lec-replicators-workshop/?postID=151256#post151256 With regard to the possibility that the LEC is a battery: A LEC has many similarities to a battery and we debated calling it a Hydrogen Ion Battery but a LEC is much more. A battery is basically two electrodes of different work function where metal ions are transported by well known chemical reactions through a liquid electrolyte in between the electrodes. The LEC does not have a liquid electrolyte and a LEC produces and transports gas ions. A battery is also a voltage source and a LEC acts like a current source. The output of a battery does not increase with temperature. A LEC has similarities with a nuclear or atomic battery without the hazardous radiation and they don't increase output with temperature. We settled on calling it a LEC, I'm working on a more detailed description but that will take some time. I reviewed the description that Pam Boss wrote for the Galileo project that Steve Krivit organize several years ago. It contained a lot more detail that a high school student with minimal knowledge of electronics or chemistry would need. The only guidance that I provided to Jean-Paul Biberian was to send the cell diagram. As I included in the presentation, he tried a rod of Pd-Ag alloy and it didn't work. I suggested that he needed to codeposit some Pd onto the rod to make sure it had vacancies that codeposition is know to produce. He did that and it worked. Jean-Paul is very experienced and knowledgeable. In the case of Andrew Erickson, he was new to the field but had some technical knowledge. I sent him the drawing a description that is in the presentation and talked to him a couple times and he produced a successful active working electrode. I presume that most of the people in this forum are somewhere between Jean-Paul and Andrew in experience and knowledge so hopefully the information that I supplied on codeposition will be enough. If anyone is having trouble based on that description or has specific questions, please let me know. I would also like to know when people try to replicate and if they were successful or not. Based on the issues/problems in replicating the results, I can be sure to address those in the detailed description.
Re: [Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)
Robin wrote: > A potential of 0.1 V over a DVM with an input impedance of 10 MOhm is > readily produced by a chemical reaction for > several months. The power is only 1 nW. > It could easily be the result of two different metals. I.e. an unintended > battery. > Gordon does not think it is a battery. I asked him to address this issue in an upcoming paper.
Re: [Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sun, 24 Jan 2021 16:32:09 -0500: Hi, [snip] >I uploaded a new version of this paper: > >Gordon, F. and H.J. Whitehouse, *Lattice Energy Converter (LEC) (PowerPoint >slides)*, in LENR Workshop in memory of Dr. M. Srinivasan. 2021: Indian >Institute of Technology Kanpur. > >https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GordonFlatticeene.pdf [snip] A potential of 0.1 V over a DVM with an input impedance of 10 MOhm is readily produced by a chemical reaction for several months. The power is only 1 nW. It could easily be the result of two different metals. I.e. an unintended battery.
Re: [Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)
This fine paper and particularly the video present a promising line of reproducible experiment that is sure to enlist further researchers - since if portends direct conversion of heat into electricity and notably also furthers the long-standing quest to identify the "mystery radiation"... One guess for this mystery is that the radiation is simply EUV - which is the result of hydrogen densification according to several theories ... however that kind of radiation should not be able to fog external film. However, It could be that some metals are actually semi-transparent to EUV or become so over time, and we are not aware of that feature since typically all UV is absorbed by metals. Jed Rothwell wrote: I uploaded a new version of this paper: Gordon, F. and H.J. Whitehouse, Lattice Energy Converter (LEC) (PowerPoint slides), in LENR Workshop in memory of Dr. M. Srinivasan. 2021: Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur. https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GordonFlatticeene.pdf I added the Presentation Notes from the PowerPoint slides. The Acrobat conversion was supposed to include these notes, but it didn't work. I had to transfer them manually. The video of this presentation is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4dzTWY_aWM=youtu.be The version of the presentation given during the conference is in the Session 3 video starting at minute 37: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd6JCbnYuaU=youtu.be
[Vo]:Updated Gordon, F. Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)
I uploaded a new version of this paper: Gordon, F. and H.J. Whitehouse, *Lattice Energy Converter (LEC) (PowerPoint slides)*, in LENR Workshop in memory of Dr. M. Srinivasan. 2021: Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur. https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GordonFlatticeene.pdf I added the Presentation Notes from the PowerPoint slides. The Acrobat conversion was supposed to include these notes, but it didn't work. I had to transfer them manually. The video of this presentation is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4dzTWY_aWM=youtu.be The version of the presentation given during the conference is in the Session 3 video starting at minute 37: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd6JCbnYuaU=youtu.be
