discussion from Facebook page re Krivit interview with Levi - Bologna
- Italy - ( Cold Fusion "Andrea Rossi" Method ) Thursday, August 18,
2011: Gilbert Schmidt: Rich Murray 2011.08.22
e-cat discussion text file (Cold Fusion "Andrea Rossi" Method)
from Gilbert Schmidt gilbe...@rocketmail.com
to rmfor...@gmail.com
cc gilbe...@rocketmail.com
date Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 8:34 PM
subject e-cat discussion text file (Cold Fusion "Andrea Rossi" Method)
8:34 PM (11 hours ago)
I tried to put it into a regular post, but it would not post.
I did not think that it was much bigger then your large post.
I just posted a copy in the yahoo files section.
Discussion From facebook page - ( Cold Fusion "Andrea Rossi" Method )
Thursday, August 18, 2011
Krivit interview to Levi - Bologna - Italy
2011 - Giuseppe Levi Discusses Andrea Rossi's Energy Catalyzer -
Part 1/5 http://www.youtube.com/user/StevenKrivit#p/u/5/Ml-NElJ-Cf0
Jonas Sundberg: Wet steam...it's a scam :(
Thursday at 9:31pm ·
Jouni Valkonen: There is no such thing as water boiler that produces
less quality steam than 95% dry. Krivit is a crackpotter, as he thinks
such way. I have boiled hundreds of times water and I have always
gotten high quality steam also when cutting forces are stronger than
supposedly in E-Cat. If very wet steam would be physical possibility,
no steam engines would work, because the essence of steam engine is
that water boiler produces always dry steam.
Thursday at 9:50pm ·
Albert Kong: Thousands of watts should be unmistakable. The absence of
urgency and rigor in precise measurement is in fact quite consistent
with this amount of power. In fact with this level of power I would be
more suspicious of an expensive, laborious measurement process for
such a claim. The stray 10 Watts dismissed in the interview would have
been a great result if it were excess power in the past, even by hot
fusion standards. If that isn't coming a long way, I don't know what
is?
Thursday at 11:51pm ·
Gilbert Schmidt: It has been shown that there are no water level
controls on the system, therefore access water, after filling up the
device to the steam outlet tube, would flow out with the steam into
the drain. . This was clearly demonstrated in the need to empty the
tube of "water and condensate" , before showing the steam come out of
the tube in the june video. . That outlet tube should always have been
emptied into a bucket so that all the condensate and water from any
overflow would go into the bucket, so that it can be measured, by
either volume or mass. . There was definitely overflow of water into
the steam outlet pipe. . No one has wanted to measure this, to show
how much water did overflow. . A bucket was used in an earlier video,
but I have not heard of any attempt to measure the water accumulation
in the bucket, and the bucket did show a lot of water in it. . It is
possible for this water overflow, to account for all of the access
energy that is claimed to be produced. . No one can know for sure,
until this is measured in a test.
Yesterday at 3:42am ·
Loıd Ǝddǝsnıƃ: Krivit's critics appear like someone analyzing a
Formula 1 car with engine idling low, during a pit stop. The point is
that Krivits doesn't know anything more than any other casual
spectator...
After september comes october... who will live will see.
Yesterday at 5:40am · ·
1 personL
Albert Kong: If the device is overflowing there would be only one
discharge, water, that is it. If any steam is observed, the device
cannot be overflowing. Water/steam, it is not that complex.
Yesterday at 10:49am ·
Jouni Valkonen: Gilbert, Mats Lewan collected water into bucket and
notised that there was not signifigant overflown present but >75%
water was steamed and liquid water was just condensed as steam kept
water in the bucket at 99.9°C. Also we can calculate this same ratio
that ca. 80% dry steam/20% hot water/1.5% wet component of steam
directly from steam overpressure that was around 3.3kPa.
As there was mentioned formula-analog, I think that Mr. Krivit saw
only a dummy E-Cat that was set for 20 min demonstration for a
journalis, where electric heater was only active at power ca. 820W as
was measured and water inflow rate was 1-2kg per hour, wich was not
measured.
Yesterday at 11:05am ·
Gilbert Schmidt: When there is any water overflow occurring, there is
absolutely no problem with having both water and steam coming out
together in any ratio. . I have worked in the field of engineering for
many years and have worked with steam production and steam
calculations extensively. . I have been involved with steam boiler
inspections, steam boiler maintenance, and steam boiler repairs. . I
have not been saying that this device does not produce access energy.
. What I have been saying is that no one is willing or allowed to do
the simple (very simple) tests that will prove whether or not this
device produces the access energy that has been described. .
Yesterday at 11:31am ·
Philip Todd: @Jouni (or anyone): Rossi claims the reaction is 100%
repeatable right? So, why do you think he would do a dummy run when
demonstrating to a journalist (on camera)? If we accept this was the
case - I guess it's safe to assume he did the same with Matts Lewan
which would explain his being caught tampering with the power controls
in the video. Why would he deceive reporters in this way instead of
doing a proper run of the eCat? Anyones thoughts?
Yesterday at 11:49am ·
Cesar Pinheiro: Dear Philip.
Rossi did not refuses to do another test, he will do another one in
october, will deploy a 1 MegaWatt plant and will disclose a new
powerful partner.
And until now he maintains this schedule.
You need only wait until this new test to be done with a protocol
defined by his guests and his new US partner.
Yesterday at 12:35pm ·
Jouni Valkone: Philip, I have no idea, but it just sounds reasonable.
There are myriads of different explanations. One is that Rossi is just
testing E-Cat modules for final product. What if he just noticed in
the morning that that particular module was not functioning as it
supposed, and did not want to delay Krivit's interview, but devised
just a dummy E-Cat for a back up.
This is just one plausible explanation, but I am sure that you can
come up with your own also. 100% repeatable does not mean that all
E-Cat modules are working straight from the factory. Of course they
must be first tested in various ways. We just do not know how much
efforts it requires to set up real demonstration like with Mats Lewan.
Perhaps Rossi did not go all the efforts just for Krivit, and did not
mind if Krivit tries to tarnish his reputation. Because if he knew
that he has working prototype in hands, Krivit will just spoil his own
reputation if he tries to attack Rossi. And indeed, Krivit was quite
offensive and impolite in Levi's interview. Therefore I would think
that Rossi did not like Krivit at all, but showed him a dummy E-Cat so
that he can spoil his own reputation with his overly aggressive
investigative Journalism. Rossi has followed Cold Fusion skene more
than 10 years longer than Krivit, therefore he knew exactly what kind
of person Mr. Krivit was.
Yesterday at 12:46pm ·
Albert Kong: I find it hard to believe that these highly qualified
physical sciences professors (like Levi) are engaged in fraud. And as
I said thousands of watts is unmistakable, so it is not collective
error either. Not only engaged in fraud but subjecting themselves to
worldwide exposure through interviews posted on the Internet.
With such intense criticism from laymen much lesser qualified than
themselves, who strangely enough are the most critical, I can imagine
the hot fusion people are laughing their heads off. Having already
consumed billions, and knowing that there is an alternative energy
source.
@Gilbert, engineering is a great profession and I congratulate you for
working in the field, but one does not have to be one to figure this
out. The engineering industrial water/steam systems are closed. Run
your electric kettle with a steady water flow into it and see if you
can get a combination of water/steam out of it.
Yesterday at 1:13pm ·
Gilbert Schmidt: To use a kettle to show water and steam comming out
in any ratio desired (even having the output going into a long hose),
and a video of it leaving the hose, would be easily done. .
Yesterday at 1:30pm · ·
1 personL
Albert Kong: We are all taking the word of these experts in one form
or the other, but appear very selective. Even the critical aspects of
our comments rely on the word of these experts. No one here I believe
has first hand access to the technology. What has been reported and
commented upon was heat production in the kilowatt range. While in
some tests the reports have been input power with a few hundred watts,
which we choose to be critical about and argue about steam production
etc., but in some there were 80 Watts and in others even mention of 0
watts input power.
To be fair the man (Rossi) never said that he would never subject his
system to further scrutiny, he just said to wait a couple of months
until he has an undeniable demonstration. The reason he feels the need
to do this is steeped in the history of the field and to make it
harder for it to be buried, which is fair.
A couple of months is a blink of an eye in scientific time. What are
we afraid of so that we have to try to bury it before time. If it has
proven difficult to bury in the past in a short while we would have
the opportunity.
Yesterday at 1:35pm ·
Albert Kong: @Gilbert, I have seen the many amateur videos of
simulated LENR steam production, but none show both water and steam
coming out of the hose simultaneously to imply the Rossi/Foracrdi
'fraud'. Do you have any?
Yesterday at 1:44pm ·
Gilbert Schmid: I do not see any difficulty in setting up and videoing
an experiment to show steam and water comming out at the same time. .
At this time, I do not have any time to set up and do this experiment. .
Yesterday at 1:56pm ·
Gilbert Schmidt: When someone proposes this statement "I think that
Mr. Krivit saw only a dummy E-Cat" , that indicates that they agree
that the video shows much lower output then is explained. . .
. .
The very very simple test to calculate the energy output with
"acceptable" accuracy, has been described many times. .
Just put output tube into a large bucket of cold water, and measure
the increase in temperature over a short time period. .
At period end, use final volume or weight of water(for simplicity),
temperature change, and time interval. .
No secrets have been divulged, and energy output calculation is easy. .
Multiple tests can be done in a row, by weighing the bucket as often
as desired, along with temperature and time interval. .
This test does not interfere with the operation of the device. .
The problem is this, I can assure you now, that this test will not be
done by or with independent observers. .
Watch and see. .
When the 1 megawatt plant is demonstrated, this test will not be done
on that one either. .
It is much harder to do the test on a 1 megawatt plant, then on a 5kw device. .
So, in October, Watch and see. .
. .
I would propose one more option, and that is that maybe Rossi did the
test that was on video,
with lower output, to make people think that it does not have the
output described. .
That way, those people who are trying to replicate it, would give up
after seeing the video. .
I know that at least one person has stoped, at least temporarily, from
trying to replicate, because of this. .
Yesterday at 2:02pm ·
Jouni Valkonen: Gilbert, your idea for easy calorimetric analysis was
good one and, indeed it was too bad that Mats Lewan did not realize
this. For sure he would do this, because he had free hands to measure
what ever he liked. But in October, there will also be small scale
demonstration with single self-sustaining E-Cat module, so that we can
do accurate calorimetric analysis. And if you do not propose this kind
of experiment I will!
Yesterday at 2:13pm · ·
1 personL
Albert Kong: @Gilbert, let us really think about this, if there is in
fact a demonstration in the future. Multiple physical scientist
professors and industrialists would come together to manufacture
hundreds of devices that they know are dummies (don't do anything)?
Isn't it more plausible that they don't do a precise energy balance
because it is obviously no where near to a balancing point. Especially
if there is no input power. We believe them when they say that there
was a couple hundred watts input power and use that to try to explain
the steam, why don't we believe them when they say that there was zero
watts. We can't confirm either.
Let us say that not only hundreds of dummy devices are manufactured
into a big module, but multiple modules are deployed industrially. You
are an engineer, how long do you think it would take for the utilities
to notice that kind of load (or lack thereof). Could they possibly
fool the entire electrical grid? Even if they could (they can't), why?
Yesterday at 2:13pm ·
Gilbert Schmidt: When large multiple modules are used, I would expect
that they would confirm it, in much less then a month, as to whether
they are getting the expected energy out. .
We would know for sure at that point, but I do not expect we will know
before then. .
I am still hoping that this thing works. . Even if it produces 50 %
more power then is input, I think we have an amazing success to build
on. .
>From the videos, I can not say for certainty that I can see excess
energy output. .
I have been in contact with people have been attempting replication. .
I know it has convinced at least one person to stop replication attempts. .
. .
As for the operation with no input power, we do not have any really
good recorded data on it. .
The problem is that if this output is definitely confirmed, the number
of people trying to replicate will explode. .
The online automatic translators may have trouble with this last sentence.
Yesterday at 2:43pm ·
Albert Kong: Professor Levi has no reason to lie about this. He is not
making any claims about himself but it sounds to me on behalf of an
elderly colleague (Prof. Focardi) who wants to live to see this to
fruition. I can sense the feeling of ease he feels in the interview. A
man who knows that the doomsday energy/climate crisis scenario is
over.
It is unbelievable and I would not believe it myself if history did
not teach me that such breakthroughs do happen and in this messy
manner. We are no where near the pinnacle of knowledge as was thought
even in Newton's time. From the collective history of this technology,
the dogged determination with which it was sniffed out, just like the
elusive radioactivity in pitch blend, is typical of human nature, a
nature that was perhaps meant to make these discoveries.
Yesterday at 7:08pm · ·
1 personL
Gilbert Schmidt: "The problem is that if this output is definitely confirmed"
I meant it would probably be a problem for Rossi, because of all the
replicators.
At the same time, it would be good for Rossi that it works.
Yesterday at 9:06pm ·
Cesar Pinheiro: If the e-cat true, Rossi and his family will not have
problems to survive with dignity.
23 hours ago · ·
1 personL
Dror Simon: i don't see how this could be a scam. It's pretty hard to
fake one mega-watt of power output . Worst case as far as i can see is
that rossi is severly delusional about the true ability of the e-cat.
2 hours ago ·
TerritorioScuola Informazione - Didattica, Reti, Ricerche.: It seem
that this dispute doesn't need to more chatters..Perhaps we should
leave to work in silence the stoker. We do not say anything, we will
not speculate. We wait for him at the station "October" and will find
out soon enough if his steam engine is one of many scams, or one of
the possible truths .. Cheatings do not have a long life...
ago ·
