Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-24 Thread Patrick Ellul
What is really good is that they want to test it for 96 hours (48+48)
minimum. I think that will give so much more credibility to the invention.

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote:

 since defkalion feel that the COP is above 20, no need to have a scientist.

 moreover scientist are easy to manipulate (see the books of William
 Broad, *Nicholas Wade)*, so good old tricky engineer would be better.
 if you are really paranoid, a good magician/prestidigitator could be a
 consultant.

 but with COP20, assuming good electric measures (UPS is a good idea
 because it has hard limits in power, if they are of well known model)


 2012/1/24 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com

  I think the best would be an engineer- salesman like the one who had
 installed my home heater BOSCH 3000W plus a technician specialized
 in radioactivity measurements for an environment protection State
 authorithy.

 A good generator needs NO geniuses to confirm that it works well, I think.





-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!


Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-24 Thread Alan J Fletcher

At 11:09 PM 1/23/2012, Alain Sepeda wrote:

since defkalion feel that the COP is above 20, no need to have a scientist.


Static would be fine IF you monitor the entire surface of the hyperion.
But I'm not at all happy with the two-thermometer COP calculation.
I've got some other stuff to do, but I'll write up an initial fake 
later on today.   



Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-24 Thread Robert Lynn
I find it a little disappointing, that Defkalion are not going to use flow
calorimetry for their demos.  Their choice of course.  It is a bit hard to
understand their test procedure, they specify a Bare hyperion reactor but
what that means is unclear, it also sounds like they are not using a
coolant - just passive ambient air cooling with an air blower if it starts
to overheat (am I misunderstanding them?).

The Public Relations problem with differential thermal calorimetry is that
skeptics can still point to the possibility of fraud via variable thermal
conductivity between inside and outside of the enclosing box (things as
simple as vacuum insulation having gas let into it via remote controlled
valve) or other tricks.

To me it would seem like flow calorimetry is the easier option given that
they have a reactor designed to flow a coolant through it and that could
easily heat water in a secondary heat exchanger to allow easily verifiable
water heating by any one of the many methods discussed in wake of Rossi's
demos last year (so long as we avoid steam!).  Pretty hard to fake (or
deny) buckets of hot water coming out.

It also seems to me that the reaction rate control issues and prevention of
thermal run-away would be much trickier without a directly controllable
rate of cooling.  They must be pretty confident in their understanding and
control of the reaction process.

On 24 January 2012 08:55, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote:

 What is really good is that they want to test it for 96 hours (48+48)
 minimum. I think that will give so much more credibility to the invention.


 On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote:

 since defkalion feel that the COP is above 20, no need to have a
 scientist.

 moreover scientist are easy to manipulate (see the books of William
 Broad, *Nicholas Wade)*, so good old tricky engineer would be better.
 if you are really paranoid, a good magician/prestidigitator could be a
 consultant.

 but with COP20, assuming good electric measures (UPS is a good idea
 because it has hard limits in power, if they are of well known model)


 2012/1/24 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com

  I think the best would be an engineer- salesman like the one who had
 installed my home heater BOSCH 3000W plus a technician specialized
 in radioactivity measurements for an environment protection State
 authorithy.

 A good generator needs NO geniuses to confirm that it works well, I
 think.





 --
 Patrick

 www.tRacePerfect.com
 The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
 The quickest puzzle ever!




Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-24 Thread Alain Sepeda
static calorimetry is ok, if they open their core, and it seems to be in
the plan.

smaller reactor mean also less room to hide rabits...

I think that thei perfectly know how the demo will be, and they have done
it many time.
they probably have a very precise model of their reactor.
it is why they are not afraid to let other play with their toys.

2012/1/24 Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com

 I find it a little disappointing, that Defkalion are not going to use flow
 calorimetry for their demos
 ...
 They must be pretty confident in their understanding and control of the
 reaction process.



Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote:

I find it a little disappointing, that Defkalion are not going to use flow
 calorimetry for their demos.  Their choice of course.


I believe they intend to do that at a later date. Static (Isoperobolic)
calorimetry is a little easier to set up, especially on this scale. It is
fine, as long as you calibrate.

This is a good start.

- Jed


Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-24 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
Has anyone stepped up yet, and is preparing to perform independent testing?

I assume there HAS to be interest in this subject.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks



Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-24 Thread Alan J Fletcher


At 09:31 AM 1/24/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
At 11:09 PM 1/23/2012, Alain
Sepeda wrote:
since defkalion feel that the
COP is above 20, no need to have a scientist.
Static would be fine IF you monitor the entire surface of the
hyperion.
But I'm not at all happy with the two-thermometer COP calculation.
I've got some other stuff to do, but I'll write up an initial fake later
on today. 
There are two heater elements : TB (Blank) far from the thermometers, and
TA (Active) close to the thermometers
The heater element is selected by the presence (Active) or absence
(Blank) of the control signal.
T1 and T2 will give very different values depending on which heater
element is selected. 

// non-proportional font //

*---*
 |
insulation
|

|
|

|
T2 |
external temperature
 |
*--* |
 | | kernel
wall
| |
 |
|
| |
 |
*--* |
 |
:
T1 : | internal
temperature
 | : -^v^v^v^v^v^v-o
o-v^v^v^v^v^- : |
 | :
RB  \ /
RA : | RB : Blank
RA: Active resistor
 |
:
v - - - - - - - - - - - - - control : select RA or RB
 |
:
|
: |
 |
:
*-- heater power
 |
:
: |






Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-23 Thread Douglas Hill
If we could pick any team in the world to do this testing, who would you
trust?

Who would be the Super Star team of scientists, skeptics and journalists
who would be the most credible?



On Jan 23, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote:

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-01-23_Independent_Testing_on_Hyperion_Reactors.pdf


Interesting to say the least. Who will take up the challenge?


Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-23 Thread Patrick Ellul
Steorn had done something similar. But their testing dragged on and on ad
infinitum.

I would say teams from different universities, i.e. academia would make
good candidates.


On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Douglas Hill hil...@lemoyne.edu wrote:

 If we could pick any team in the world to do this testing, who would you
 trust?

 Who would be the Super Star team of scientists, skeptics and journalists
 who would be the most credible?



 On Jan 23, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote:


 http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-01-23_Independent_Testing_on_Hyperion_Reactors.pdf


 Interesting to say the least. Who will take up the challenge?




-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!


RE: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-23 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
A few thoughts come to mind.

 

I think this forum can put together a team that would do a great job of
testing.

 

I know who would NOT be a good choice:

- NOT a university that has any involvement with hot fusion, CERN, etc.

- NOT a govt agency; can't trust them to be honest, or to do it efficiently.

- NOT a major corporation either; for the same reasons as above.

 

- SRI/McKubre, since they already have at least some support from their
management.

- Bockris at Texas AM. but think he retired.

 

-Mark

 

 

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Douglas Hill hil...@lemoyne.edu wrote:

If we could pick any team in the world to do this testing, who would you
trust?

 

Who would be the Super Star team of scientists, skeptics and journalists who
would be the most credible?


On Jan 23, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote:

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-01-23_Independent_Testing_on_Hype
rion_Reactors.pdf 


Interesting to say the least. Who will take up the challenge?

-- 
Patrick





Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-23 Thread Jay Caplan
Need publicity as well as trained people to test it. There are many qualified 
persons to set up the test. I suggest John Stossel to video the testing and 
edit to use in his show.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 11:00 PM
  Subject: RE: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now


  A few thoughts come to mind.

   

  I think this forum can put together a team that would do a great job of 
testing.

   

  I know who would NOT be a good choice:

  - NOT a university that has any involvement with hot fusion, CERN, etc.

  - NOT a govt agency; can't trust them to be honest, or to do it efficiently.

  - NOT a major corporation either; for the same reasons as above.

   

  - SRI/McKubre, since they already have at least some support from their 
management.

  - Bockris at Texas AM. but think he retired.

   

  -Mark

   

   

  On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Douglas Hill hil...@lemoyne.edu wrote:

  If we could pick any team in the world to do this testing, who would you 
trust?

   

  Who would be the Super Star team of scientists, skeptics and journalists who 
would be the most credible?


  On Jan 23, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote:


http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-01-23_Independent_Testing_on_Hyperion_Reactors.pdf
 


Interesting to say the least. Who will take up the challenge?

  -- 
  Patrick




Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-23 Thread Peter Gluck
I think the best would be an engineer- salesman like the one who had
installed my home heater BOSCH 3000W plus a technician specialized
in radioactivity measurements for an environment protection State
authorithy.

A good generator needs NO geniuses to confirm that it works well, I think.

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint 
zeropo...@charter.net wrote:

 A few thoughts come to mind…

 ** **

 I think this forum can put together a team that would do a great job of
 testing…

 ** **

 I know who would NOT be a good choice:

 - NOT a university that has any involvement with hot fusion, CERN, etc.***
 *

 - NOT a govt agency; can’t trust them to be honest, or to do it
 efficiently.

 - NOT a major corporation either; for the same reasons as above.

 ** **

 - SRI/McKubre, since they already have at least some support from their
 management.

 - Bockris at Texas AM… but think he retired.

 ** **

 -Mark

 ** **

 ** **

 On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Douglas Hill hil...@lemoyne.edu wrote:*
 ***

 If we could pick any team in the world to do this testing, who would you
 trust?

 ** **

 Who would be the Super Star team of scientists, skeptics and journalists
 who would be the most credible?


 On Jan 23, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote:
 


 http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-01-23_Independent_Testing_on_Hyperion_Reactors.pdf

 

 Interesting to say the least. Who will take up the challenge?

 --
 Patrick

 




-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com


Re: [Vo]:Defkalion is open for testing as from now

2012-01-23 Thread Alain Sepeda
since defkalion feel that the COP is above 20, no need to have a scientist.

moreover scientist are easy to manipulate (see the books of William
Broad, *Nicholas
Wade)*, so good old tricky engineer would be better.
if you are really paranoid, a good magician/prestidigitator could be a
consultant.

but with COP20, assuming good electric measures (UPS is a good idea
because it has hard limits in power, if they are of well known model)


2012/1/24 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com

 I think the best would be an engineer- salesman like the one who had
 installed my home heater BOSCH 3000W plus a technician specialized
 in radioactivity measurements for an environment protection State
 authorithy.

 A good generator needs NO geniuses to confirm that it works well, I think.