Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from 22passi blog

2011-02-17 Thread Terry Blanton
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:55 AM, Charles HOPE
lookslikeiwasri...@gmail.com wrote:
 Murray should apologize to Earthtech for making derogatory comments on
 Rossi's experiment that were quotes of Cude's criticism?

Not at all.

I am saying that Murray should have copied the following to EarthTech.
 He left them without the rest of the story.



fromRich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com
reply-tovortex-l@eskimo.com
to  joshua.c...@yahoo.com,
vortex-L@eskimo.com,
michael barron mhbar...@gmail.com,
Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com,
Rich Murray rmfor...@comcast.net,
Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net
dateThu, Feb 10, 2011 at 1:04 AM
subject [Vo]:probably, the Rossi demos have a complex control box with
thermal controls that lower the electric input power when the reactor
gets too hot: Cede: Murray 2011.02.09
mailed-by   eskimo.com
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hide details Feb 10 (7 days ago)
probably, the Rossi demos have a complex control box with thermal
controls that lower the electric input heater power when the reactor
gets too hot: Cude: Murray 2011.02.09

fromMark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net
reply-tovortex-l@eskimo.com
to  vortex-l@eskimo.com
dateWed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:50 PM
subject RE: [Vo]:Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not
hold water
9:50 PM (51 minutes ago)

This whole thread started by the critique by Joshua Cude posted by
Rich Murray...

It would appear that Joshua (and Rich) have not read all of the
comments and reports on Rossi's website, so they were UNinformed as to
the purpose of the 'control box'.

Rich,

would you please correct Joshua on this so he doesn't go spreading
MISinformation about the demo!

-Mark

snip
end



[Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from 22passi blog

2011-02-16 Thread SHIRAKAWA Akira

Hello group,

Daniele Passerini from 22passi blog interviewed again Andrea Rossi on 
February 13th. This is the original link:

http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/02/energy-catalyzer-facciamo-un-po-di.html

And this is an English translation courtesy of PESN, edited by Hank 
Mills from a Google translation:

http://pesn.com/2011/02/14/9501766_Rossi_catalyzer_clarity_interview/

* * *

Energy Catalyzer:
Lets get some clarity.

Last Monday I had the opportunity to meet Ing. Andrea Rossi for a second 
interview, this time face to face, in order to collect new details about 
his invention. I have recorded over 30 minutes of questions and answers 
that in the days following the interview I summarized in the following 
text. On the basis of a gentleman's agreement I also was given a number 
of clarifications, off record and confidential, which reinforce my 
belief that people - and there are many- that think this has something 
to do with a hoax are like a half mule and half ostrich.



22PASSI - Congratulations Mr. Rossi, the news of the invention of the 
E-Cat has been prominent in Greece where the Newco that assumes 
responsibility for it's production and marketing, Defkalion Green 
Technologies of Athens, is located. I imagine that Prof. Christos E. 
Stremmenos has to be played as a sponsor, who was an opponent of the 
regime of the colonels, former Ambassador of Greece to Rome, Professor 
of Physics at the University of Athens, and practically a national hero 
in Greece. In Italy the media have largely ignored the news and 
discussed it only on the web, often bitterly. The questions that I'm 
inspired to ask address the doubts and criticisms that I have picked up 
on the internet. For example, a very controversial question is if the 
E-Cat can be considered safe.


ROSSI - The 10-kW modules we produce are safe and for years now we have 
been testing and using them with no problems. All possible measures of 
radiation from the reactor have been taken and the modules have always 
demonstrated the utmost safety. We control it as we want, switching it 
on and switching it off and we get power on and power off. It can never 
exceed a certain power because we have designed it so that there can be 
no Nickel-Hydrogen reaction above the safety limits and, above all, 
there is no radiation outside of the reactor significantly over the 
background level. It is true that with our current state of knowledge we 
do not know what would happen if we started scaling up the reactor from 
10KW to 1000KW. In fact, we take care not to do so. To obtain higher 
power production we combine the modules in series and parallel, as if 
they were batteries. A 10 KW reactor connecting in parallel increases 
the amount of energy produced at a constant temperature and putting them 
in series multiplies the amount of energy produced at increasing 
temperature, because you multiply the TD. Combining the two 
architectures, parallel and series, you can get what you want and stay 
strictly in the same safety parameters.


22PASSI - We always talk about thermal power, right?

ROSSI - yes, when converting to other forms of energy there will be a 
loss of efficiency. In the Carnot cycle efficiency is usually between 
30% and 35% depending on the efficiency of the system, this means that 
if we convert 1MW of thermal power we can get 300-350 kW electric and 
thermal energy.


22PASSI - Then we could produce both heat and electricity at the same time..

ROSSI - With the Carnot cycle this is so. Of course nothing is created 
and nothing is destroyed: the energy balance should be 100. However, if 
out of 100KW of heat 35 KW of heat was converted into electricity and 
the other 65KW of heat remained, then you would lose a few percentage 
points in conversion. In summary, if the E-Cat provides only thermal 
power directly, only a heat exchanger is needed and you're done. If you 
need electricity only a portion of the thermal energy can be transformed 
into electricity, but you will also have the heat that remains.


22PASSI. Then a small village of 50-100 families with a 1 MW unit could 
be made more energy independent in terms of heating and electricity.


ROSSI. Ah yes, this certainly.

22PASSI - If I understand correctly, once enough power is given to the 
reactor to ignite (in Bologna there was talk of 1-2kW), in this setup 
the machine might operate autonomously, without a power outlet or 
battery as the power input (on the order of 0.4 kW / h) is well within 
the approximately 3.5 kW electricity obtainable.


ROSSI - Certainly. There remains, however, the problem of the drive 
(control system) that is still a little more complex: each reactor has 
implemented an electrical drive for safety reasons and much be attached 
to a current line. Precisely because of these controls, we can ensure 
that there are no safety problems inherent in our E-Cat from 10 kW, as 
well in our unit from 1MW, consisting of 100 reactors from 10kW each of 
which has its 

Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from 22passi blog

2011-02-16 Thread Horace Heffner


On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:15 AM, SHIRAKAWA Akira wrote:


Hello group,

Daniele Passerini from 22passi blog interviewed again Andrea  
Rossi on February 13th. This is the original link:
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/02/energy-catalyzer-facciamo-un-po- 
di.html


And this is an English translation courtesy of PESN, edited by Hank  
Mills from a Google translation:

http://pesn.com/2011/02/14/9501766_Rossi_catalyzer_clarity_interview/

* * *

[snip]

ROSSI - In a nutshell for very nicely measuring the range of  
radiation we should create a 360 degree hole in the reactor to  
allow the meter to read what's happening there. But what that  
implies is giving away the technology completely in the hands of a  
person prepared to interpret the data. To design the systems  
security anti spy technology of this kind is not enough to surround  
himself with collaborators honest and like ... I myself, Andrea,  
would be in crisis if someone were to say we will give you a  
figure that will change your life overnight and your next five  
generations in return for telling us... An offer of this kind  
would severely test even the honesty of a Saint.



[snip]

--
Cheers,
S.A.



Independent evaluation of the commercial viability and utility of an  
invention like this is typically made, and could have been made in  
this case, by an independent third party, under a nondisclosure  
agreement (NDA) before commercial financing is provided.  Evaluation  
of excess heat by calorimetry can even be accomplished free onsite by  
using companies like Earthtech (www.earthtech.org).


Such an evaluation requires no obfuscation and minimal intervention  
or constraints by the inventor during evaluation.


There have been many cases discussed here over the last 15 years of  
bad or highly debatable calorimetry indicating total energy balances  
beyond chemical.   No one should invest a dime in any CF scheme for  
business purposes unless expert calorimetry is performed in due  
diligence.


Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/






Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from 22passi blog

2011-02-16 Thread Terry Blanton
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote:

snip

 Independent evaluation of the commercial viability and utility of an
 invention like this is typically made, and could have been made in this
 case, by an independent third party, under a nondisclosure agreement (NDA)
 before commercial financing is provided.  Evaluation of excess heat by
 calorimetry can even be accomplished free onsite by using companies like
 Earthtech (www.earthtech.org).

But Murray cross posted derogatory comments on the experiment here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg42393.html

And the archives do not show all the recipients unlike my gmail archives:


from   Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com
reply-tovortex-l@eskimo.com
to  vortex-L@eskimo.com,
michael barron mhbar...@gmail.com,
Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com,
Rich Murray rmfor...@comcast.net,
Sterling D. Allen sterlin...@pureenergysystems.com,
lit...@earthtech.org,
mari...@earthtech.org,
puth...@earthtech.org,
joshua.c...@yahoo.com
dateTue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:15 PM
subject [Vo]:Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not
hold water, decisive critique by Joshua Cude: Rich Murray 2011.02.08
mailed-by   eskimo.com
unsubscribe Unsubscribe from this sender
hide details Feb 8 (9 days ago)
Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not hold water,
decisive critique by Joshua Cude: Rich Murray 2011.02.08

snip

Which included members of Earthtech.

When I suggested he include Earthtech in his retraction:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg42488.html

Rich did not respond, leaving Earthtech with a bad taste in their mouth.

Unethical, IMO.

T



Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from 22passi blog

2011-02-16 Thread Rich Murray
Hello Terry,

I'm still doubtful about the Rossi claims, due to the enormous
confusion about the output water-steam flows, and the weak claims
about gamma detection.

I am not a doctrinaire skeptic, but as a scientific layman serve as a
pragmatic skeptic about the simpler aspects of cold fusion research,
while hoping for major benign advances.

I am pleased by the overall courteous and thoughtful discussions.

I was perplexed to not get any responses whatsoever from Earthtech, so
assume they are operating on their own track re surprising,
fast-moving matters that impinge on world security.

Rossi has not released any details re his explosions.

Surely by now many teams worldwide are running their own experiments
and checking out all possible leads of information.

Amateur networks can contribute by spreading information as widely as possible.

The list of elements and their isotopes that might be catalysts may be
only a few dozen.  The most recent Rossi comments include the claim
that the half-lives of radioactives in his cells are less than a few
minutes.

However, I find it easy to imagine that every facet of this complex
drama could be disinformation from multiple players with different
agendas.

The article on Wikipedia re BlackLight Power shows clearly that 50-100
million dollars can be attracted in two decades by a small scientific
cult.

I note that it's been 2 months since the private demo by Rossi on
December 16, and he published provocative patents and reports in the
last 2 years.

Rich Murray

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net 
 wrote:

 snip

 Independent evaluation of the commercial viability and utility of an
 invention like this is typically made, and could have been made in this
 case, by an independent third party, under a nondisclosure agreement (NDA)
 before commercial financing is provided.  Evaluation of excess heat by
 calorimetry can even be accomplished free onsite by using companies like
 Earthtech (www.earthtech.org).

 But Murray cross posted derogatory comments on the experiment here:

 http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg42393.html

 And the archives do not show all the recipients unlike my gmail archives:


 from   Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com
 reply-to        vortex-l@eskimo.com
 to      vortex-L@eskimo.com,
 michael barron mhbar...@gmail.com,
 Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com,
 Rich Murray rmfor...@comcast.net,
 Sterling D. Allen sterlin...@pureenergysystems.com,
 lit...@earthtech.org,
 mari...@earthtech.org,
 puth...@earthtech.org,
 joshua.c...@yahoo.com
 date    Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:15 PM
 subject [Vo]:Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not
 hold water, decisive critique by Joshua Cude: Rich Murray 2011.02.08
 mailed-by       eskimo.com
 unsubscribe     Unsubscribe from this sender
 hide details Feb 8 (9 days ago)
 Levi's interpretation of the two Rossi demos does not hold water,
 decisive critique by Joshua Cude: Rich Murray 2011.02.08

 snip

 Which included members of Earthtech.

 When I suggested he include Earthtech in his retraction:

 http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg42488.html

 Rich did not respond, leaving Earthtech with a bad taste in their mouth.

 Unethical, IMO.

 T





Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from 22passi blog

2011-02-16 Thread Terry Blanton
And that changes what I said how?

T

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello Terry,

 I'm still doubtful about the Rossi claims,



Re: [Vo]:February 13th A. Rossi interview from 22passi blog

2011-02-16 Thread Charles HOPE
Murray should apologize to Earthtech for making derogatory comments on
Rossi's experiment that were quotes of Cude's criticism?


On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 And that changes what I said how?

 T

 On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hello Terry,
 
  I'm still doubtful about the Rossi claims,




-- 
Never did I see a second sun
Never did my skin touch a land of glass
Never did my rifle point but true
But in a land empty of enemies
Waiting for the tick-tick-tick of the want
A uranium angel
Crying “behold,”
This land that knew fire is yours
Taken from Corruption
To begin anew