RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[a.ashfield]

Beene wrote:

"If anyone is still operating under the illusion that there was valid thermal
gain at Lugano, please re-educate yourself via the authoritative work of
Thomas Clarke."

I agree the Lugano report failed in calibration. I don't take Clarke's analysis 
as gospel.  He makes a number of assumptions too.  I think the actual result 
was still well above a COP 1
He also is an avid supporter of AGW and the IPCC too.  That should tell you 
something.

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Jack Cole  wrote:


> I agree with all you say except thinking the first Levi test was good.  It
> was better, but there was no adequate calibration performed.  As such, it
> was wholly inadequate.
>

I agree.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jack Cole]

Jed,

I agree with all you say except thinking the first Levi test was good.  It
was better, but there was no adequate calibration performed.  As such, it
was wholly inadequate.

That is the common problematic thread throughout every ecat test.



On Thu, Apr 7, 2016, 5:03 PM Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Russ George  wrote:
>
> What a naïve specious comment “an engineer will lose his license” the
>> reality is that license revocations very very rarely happen.
>>
>
> However rare it may be, that is the point of issuing licenses. It is a
> method of guaranteeing the work is done correct, under penalty of the law.
> What other kind of guarantee could there be? If there were no revocations,
> the system would be meaningless. Engineers can lose their licenses for
> negligence, incompetency, misconduct or unprofessional conduct. If an
> engineer measured the Rossi device COP at 50 but it is actually 1 (no
> excess) that would surely be incompetence, and the engineer would be in
> danger of losing his or her license.
>
> file:///C:/Users/Admin/Downloads/200583010610_886.pdf
>
>
>
>> Countless examples of bad engineering are rampant without consequences to
>> the engineers.
>>
>
> Perhaps, but the laws and regulations say there are supposed to be
> consequences. You are saying the laws are not enforced. Samuel Florman say
> these laws are enforced in civil engineering. He is a distinguished author
> and head of a major construction firm. He has published six books and over
> 250 articles on engineering, so I expect he knows more about this than you
> do.
>
>
>
>> This is the problem with Vortex and other social media. They are great
>> places for some good exchange of ideas but so clouded in bullshit that it
>> makes it very difficult.
>>
>
> I have cited specific regulations and distinguished experts. What have you
> cited?
>
>
> Where did the idea of civility disappear to. Those armchair peanut gallery
>> denizens slandering and libeling Rossi here ought to be ashamed but of
>> course the nature . . .
>>
>
> Perhaps I.H. is slandering him, but I am not. I am reporting what they
> said. In their latest press release, they claim there was no heat. We
> cannot judge who is right until we see the report. But there is reason to
> doubt Rossi. I have cited examples of his tests that produced no heat, such
> as the NASA tests in which the device was plugged up but Rossi refused to
> admit that. I cited tests so poorly done it was impossible to say what the
> results were, such as the 1 MW test in Italy. I pointed to severe errors in
> Penon's 2012 test, and similar errors at Lugano. The only test of a Rossi
> device that seems to free of error is the first Levi test. That isn't much.
> There have been no replications of his work as far as I know. You said
> there were, but you did not offer any examples.
>
> So what evidence have you given us? I see nothing but invective so far. If
> anyone lacks civility and a serious attitude here, it is you, not me.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Russ George  wrote:

What a naïve specious comment “an engineer will lose his license” the
> reality is that license revocations very very rarely happen.
>

However rare it may be, that is the point of issuing licenses. It is a
method of guaranteeing the work is done correct, under penalty of the law.
What other kind of guarantee could there be? If there were no revocations,
the system would be meaningless. Engineers can lose their licenses for
negligence, incompetency, misconduct or unprofessional conduct. If an
engineer measured the Rossi device COP at 50 but it is actually 1 (no
excess) that would surely be incompetence, and the engineer would be in
danger of losing his or her license.

file:///C:/Users/Admin/Downloads/200583010610_886.pdf



> Countless examples of bad engineering are rampant without consequences to
> the engineers.
>

Perhaps, but the laws and regulations say there are supposed to be
consequences. You are saying the laws are not enforced. Samuel Florman say
these laws are enforced in civil engineering. He is a distinguished author
and head of a major construction firm. He has published six books and over
250 articles on engineering, so I expect he knows more about this than you
do.



> This is the problem with Vortex and other social media. They are great
> places for some good exchange of ideas but so clouded in bullshit that it
> makes it very difficult.
>

I have cited specific regulations and distinguished experts. What have you
cited?


Where did the idea of civility disappear to. Those armchair peanut gallery
> denizens slandering and libeling Rossi here ought to be ashamed but of
> course the nature . . .
>

Perhaps I.H. is slandering him, but I am not. I am reporting what they
said. In their latest press release, they claim there was no heat. We
cannot judge who is right until we see the report. But there is reason to
doubt Rossi. I have cited examples of his tests that produced no heat, such
as the NASA tests in which the device was plugged up but Rossi refused to
admit that. I cited tests so poorly done it was impossible to say what the
results were, such as the 1 MW test in Italy. I pointed to severe errors in
Penon's 2012 test, and similar errors at Lugano. The only test of a Rossi
device that seems to free of error is the first Levi test. That isn't much.
There have been no replications of his work as far as I know. You said
there were, but you did not offer any examples.

So what evidence have you given us? I see nothing but invective so far. If
anyone lacks civility and a serious attitude here, it is you, not me.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jones Beene]

The re-read it. 

 

Apparently you missed the part about using unnecessary profanity to label an 
honest observation by someone you disagree with. 

 

From: Russ George 

 

Here’s a good paper on Anti-Social behavior on the internet… should be required 
reading for those of us with the obvious predilection to internet addiction  
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217592/

 

 

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jones Beene]

Russ George sounds like the troll in this exchange. 

 

Rossi’s petulant and child-like bursts of anger are well-documented…

 

From: Russ George 

 

Your branding of Rossi by saying  ‘his burst of anger’ is just plain bullshit. 
By definition of all the standards in what a Troll does that is a troll’s 
comment!  Here’s a reference to support my statement 
http://sciencecommunicationmedia.com/constructively-dealing-with-trolls-in-science-communication/

 

Vortex needs to clean up its act and stop the trolling. 

 

From: Daniel Rocha 

 

The document says IH raised 50 million from investors. That's not a lot 
considering the importance of the invention. It could be that, due skepticism, 
they couldn't reach the full 90 million, and couldn't fulfill their part. Or at 
least they did, but no so much to do anything useful on a large scale. So, 
Rossi went into a burst of anger and accused IH of keeping the invention for 
themselves. 

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Russ George]

Here’s a good paper on Anti-Social behavior on the internet… should be required 
reading for those of us with the obvious predilection to internet addiction  
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217592/

 

From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:48 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

 

Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com <mailto:lenn...@thornros.com> > wrote:

 

Once again it is not judging about how well it worked for you. Just saying that 
there is no guarantee coming from being licensed.

 

Yes, there is an explicit guarantee. If a licensed HVAC engineer publishes an 
evaluation with a mistake, he will lose his license. That is his livelihood. As 
I said before, he will go from being an upper-middle-class professional to 
working at McDonald's. That means he has to conduct the test with the proper 
instruments in place, according to methods approved by law in the state of 
Florida. These methods are extremely reliable. There is no question that if you 
do things according to the book you will get the right answer.

 

The regulations for Florida are not online at present. The state of Florida 
website links do not work. Here are regulations for Utah, which are similar:

 

http://laborcommission.utah.gov/media/pdfs/boilerelevatormine/pubs/Boiler%20Compliance%20Manual.pdf

 

A 1 MW reactor is 3.4 million BTU/h.

The regs basically say you have to certify the boiler complies with NFPA 85 
BOILER AND COMBUSTION SYSTEMS HAZARDS CODE, which is a book available here:

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages?mode=code 
<http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages?mode=code=85>
 =85

 

Here is a brief description. Does this sound easy to master? Would you trust 
some guy who has not passed certification testing to deal with these issues?

 

NFPA 85: DOCUMENT SCOPE

1.1* Scope. This code applies to the following: A.1.1 Technological advances in 
recent years and, in particular, the pervasiveness of microprocessor-based 
hardware make it even more important that only highly qualified individuals be 
employed in applying the requirements of this code to operating systems. Each 
type of hardware has its own unique features and operational modes. It is vital 
that the designer of the safety system be completely familiar with the features 
and weaknesses of the specific hardware and possess a thorough understanding of 
this code and its intent. It is not possible for this code to encompass all 
specific hardware applications, nor should this code be considered a “cookbook” 
for the design of a safety system. In applying any type of equipment to a 
safety system, the designer should consider carefully all the possible failure 
modes and the effect that each might have on the integrity of the system and 
the safety of the unit and personnel. In particular, no single point failure 
should result in an unsafe or uncontrollable condition or a masked failure of a 
microprocessor-based system that could result in the operator unwittingly 
taking action that could lead to an unsafe condition. In this code, the 
sections that apply to all fuels should be used in conjunction with those 
sections covering the specific fuel utilized. (1) Single burner boilers, 
multiple burner boilers, stokers, and atmospheric fluidized bed boilers with a 
fuel input rating of 3.7 MWt (12.5 million Btu/hr) or greater (2) Pulverized 
fuel systems at any heat input rate (3) Fired or unfired steam generators used 
to recover heat from combustion turbines [heat recovery steam generators 
(HRSGs)] and other combustion turbine exhaust systems at any heat input rate 
1.1.1 This code covers design, installation, operation, maintenance, and 
training. 1.1.2 This code covers strength of the structure, operation and 
maintenance procedures, combustion and draft control equipment, safety 
interlocks, alarms, trips, and other related controls that are essential to 
safe equipment operation. 1.1.3 This code does not cover process heaters used 
in chemical and petroleum manufacture in which steam generation is incidental 
to the operation of a processing system. 1.1.4 Chapter 5 covers single burner 
boilers that fire the following fuels: (1) Fuel gas as defined in 3.3.74. 
(2)*Other gas having a calorific value and characteristics similar to natural 
gas A.1.1.4(2) This can include some heavier-than-air gases. (3) Fuel oil as 
defined in 3.3.73.3 (4) Fuel gas and fuel oil that are fired simultaneously for 
fuel transfer (5) Fuel gas and fuel oil that are fired simultaneously and 
continuously 1.1.5 Chapter 6 covers multiple burner boilers firing one or more 
of the following: (1) Fuel gas, as defined in 3.3.74 (2) Fuel oil, as defined 
in 3.3.73.3 (3) Pulverized coal, as defined in 3.3.73.2.1 (4) Simultaneous 
firing of more than one o

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Terry Blanton]

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>
>
>- Rossi is sure that IH have transferred trade secrets to Brillouin.
>
>
Worse.  I believe Industrial Heat and Magic have transferred trade secrets
to the Chinese.  And that the Chinese are already in production of LENR
powered units.  AR will be long dead before he can recover the monies that
will be lost in China.  Lookit, China is an emerging economy in great need
of clean energy.  It will be like solar power and Germany, lots of LENR
devices will be sold to those who are desperate to replace infrastructure.
Although the US is a great user of energy our accountants will be slow to
adopt LENR.

The Chinese don't care as much about patents.  They sliced the Intel 8080
layer by layer to reconstruct the masks.

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Russ George]

Your branding of Rossi by saying  ‘his burst of anger’ is just plain bullshit. 
By definition of all the standards in what a Troll does that is a troll’s 
comment!  Here’s a reference to support my statement 
http://sciencecommunicationmedia.com/constructively-dealing-with-trolls-in-science-communication/

 

Vortex needs to clean up its act and stop the trolling. 

 

From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 9:27 AM
To: John Milstone
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

 

The document says IH raised 50 million from investors. That's not a lot 
considering the importance of the invention. It could be that, due skepticism, 
they couldn't reach the full 90 million, and couldn't fulfill their part. Or at 
least they did, but no so much to do anything useful on a large scale. So, 
Rossi went into a burst of anger and accused IH of keeping the invention for 
themselves. 

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Daniel Rocha]

The document says IH raised 50 million from investors. That's not a lot
considering the importance of the invention. It could be that, due
skepticism, they couldn't reach the full 90 million, and couldn't fulfill
their part. Or at least they did, but no so much to do anything useful on a
large scale. So, Rossi went into a burst of anger and accused IH of keeping
the invention for themselves.

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Russ George]

What a naïve specious comment “an engineer will lose his license” the reality 
is that license revocations very very rarely happen. There is even a clause is 
PEng society rules that says ‘no brother shall criticize a brother’ meaning 
that PEng’s are prohibited from criticizing other PEng’s. Countless examples of 
bad engineering are rampant without consequences to the engineers. 

 

This is the problem with Vortex and other social media. They are great places 
for some good exchange of ideas but so clouded in bullshit that it makes it 
very difficult. Not at all different from the rest of human society of course 
but alas we engage in ‘social media’ in the intimacy of our closest personal 
space. 

 

Where did the idea of civility disappear to. Those armchair peanut gallery 
denizens slandering and libeling Rossi here ought to be ashamed but of course 
the nature of Trolls is that reaction to their bile is what they seek, any 
reaction. Get a life. Do a real experiment. 

 

From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:48 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

 

Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com> wrote:

 

Once again it is not judging about how well it worked for you. Just saying that 
there is no guarantee coming from being licensed.

 

Yes, there is an explicit guarantee. If a licensed HVAC engineer publishes an 
evaluation with a mistake, he will lose his license. That is his livelihood. As 
I said before, he will go from being an upper-middle-class professional to 
working at McDonald's. That means he has to conduct the test with the proper 
instruments in place, according to methods approved by law in the state of 
Florida. These methods are extremely reliable. There is no question that if you 
do things according to the book you will get the right answer.

 

The regulations for Florida are not online at present. The state of Florida 
website links do not work. Here are regulations for Utah, which are similar:

 

http://laborcommission.utah.gov/media/pdfs/boilerelevatormine/pubs/Boiler%20Compliance%20Manual.pdf

 

A 1 MW reactor is 3.4 million BTU/h.

The regs basically say you have to certify the boiler complies with NFPA 85 
BOILER AND COMBUSTION SYSTEMS HAZARDS CODE, which is a book available here:

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages?mode=code 
<http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages?mode=code=85>
 =85

 

Here is a brief description. Does this sound easy to master? Would you trust 
some guy who has not passed certification testing to deal with these issues?

 

NFPA 85: DOCUMENT SCOPE

1.1* Scope. This code applies to the following: A.1.1 Technological advances in 
recent years and, in particular, the pervasiveness of microprocessor-based 
hardware make it even more important that only highly qualified individuals be 
employed in applying the requirements of this code to operating systems. Each 
type of hardware has its own unique features and operational modes. It is vital 
that the designer of the safety system be completely familiar with the features 
and weaknesses of the specific hardware and possess a thorough understanding of 
this code and its intent. It is not possible for this code to encompass all 
specific hardware applications, nor should this code be considered a “cookbook” 
for the design of a safety system. In applying any type of equipment to a 
safety system, the designer should consider carefully all the possible failure 
modes and the effect that each might have on the integrity of the system and 
the safety of the unit and personnel. In particular, no single point failure 
should result in an unsafe or uncontrollable condition or a masked failure of a 
microprocessor-based system that could result in the operator unwittingly 
taking action that could lead to an unsafe condition. In this code, the 
sections that apply to all fuels should be used in conjunction with those 
sections covering the specific fuel utilized. (1) Single burner boilers, 
multiple burner boilers, stokers, and atmospheric fluidized bed boilers with a 
fuel input rating of 3.7 MWt (12.5 million Btu/hr) or greater (2) Pulverized 
fuel systems at any heat input rate (3) Fired or unfired steam generators used 
to recover heat from combustion turbines [heat recovery steam generators 
(HRSGs)] and other combustion turbine exhaust systems at any heat input rate 
1.1.1 This code covers design, installation, operation, maintenance, and 
training. 1.1.2 This code covers strength of the structure, operation and 
maintenance procedures, combustion and draft control equipment, safety 
interlocks, alarms, trips, and other related controls that are essential to 
safe equipment operation. 1.1.3 This code does not cover process heaters used 
in chemical and petroleum manufacture in which steam generation i

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Craig Haynie]

I agree; the $10 million was paid. Sorry for the confusion.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:21 AM, Craig Haynie 
> wrote:
>
>> See section 3.2(b). The $10,000,000 is held in escrow.
>>
>>
>> http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf
>>
>>
>>
> That's just saying it went into escrow first as part of the agreement.
> That's standard for sure.  The complaint says it got paid.  Look at #58 of
> the complaint
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7lTfqkED9WZ2JPbkQtWEd4dVk/view
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Blaze Spinnaker]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:21 AM, Craig Haynie 
wrote:

> See section 3.2(b). The $10,000,000 is held in escrow.
>
>
> http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf
>
>
>
That's just saying it went into escrow first as part of the agreement.
That's standard for sure.  The complaint says it got paid.  Look at #58 of
the complaint
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7lTfqkED9WZ2JPbkQtWEd4dVk/view

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Craig Haynie  wrote:

See section 3.2(b). The $10,000,000 is held in escrow.
>
>
> http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf
>
>
I think this means the $10 million was held in escrow until Rossi informed
IH that the plant was "complete and ready for Validation."

It says the money will be paid "immediately after (i) Validation is
achieved as provided in Section 4 hereof." Section 4 describes an ERV test
of 24 hours. Okay, maybe it passed that test, and the test described in
section 5, lasting 350 days, is the bone of contention.

So, he got the first payment, and the lawsuit is about the rest of the
money. That's my impression. I don't know though.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Craig Haynie]

See section 3.2(b). The $10,000,000 is held in escrow.

http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf


On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> "I think the fight is over the $10 million in escrow, which looks like it
> may go back to IH if the deal falls through."
>
> I saw nothing saying the money is in escrow.   Pretty sure it's been paid
> to leonardo.  See line 58
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Lennart Thornros  wrote:

Once again it is not judging about how well it worked for you. Just saying
> that there is no guarantee coming from being licensed.
>

Yes, there is an explicit guarantee. If a licensed HVAC engineer publishes
an evaluation with a mistake, he will lose his license. That is his
livelihood. As I said before, he will go from being an upper-middle-class
professional to working at McDonald's. That means he has to conduct the
test with the proper instruments in place, according to methods approved by
law in the state of Florida. These methods are extremely reliable. There is
no question that if you do things according to the book you will get the
right answer.

The regulations for Florida are not online at present. The state of Florida
website links do not work. Here are regulations for Utah, which are similar:

http://laborcommission.utah.gov/media/pdfs/boilerelevatormine/pubs/Boiler%20Compliance%20Manual.pdf

A 1 MW reactor is 3.4 million BTU/h.

The regs basically say you have to certify the boiler complies with NFPA 85
BOILER AND COMBUSTION SYSTEMS HAZARDS CODE, which is a book available here:

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages?mode=code=85

Here is a brief description. Does this sound easy to master? Would you
trust some guy who has not passed certification testing to deal with these
issues?

NFPA 85: DOCUMENT SCOPE

1.1* Scope. This code applies to the following: A.1.1 Technological
advances in recent years and, in particular, the pervasiveness of
microprocessor-based hardware make it even more important that only highly
qualified individuals be employed in applying the requirements of this code
to operating systems. Each type of hardware has its own unique features and
operational modes. It is vital that the designer of the safety system be
completely familiar with the features and weaknesses of the specific
hardware and possess a thorough understanding of this code and its intent.
It is not possible for this code to encompass all specific hardware
applications, nor should this code be considered a “cookbook” for the
design of a safety system. In applying any type of equipment to a safety
system, the designer should consider carefully all the possible failure
modes and the effect that each might have on the integrity of the system
and the safety of the unit and personnel. In particular, no single point
failure should result in an unsafe or uncontrollable condition or a masked
failure of a microprocessor-based system that could result in the operator
unwittingly taking action that could lead to an unsafe condition. In this
code, the sections that apply to all fuels should be used in conjunction
with those sections covering the specific fuel utilized. (1) Single burner
boilers, multiple burner boilers, stokers, and atmospheric fluidized bed
boilers with a fuel input rating of 3.7 MWt (12.5 million Btu/hr) or
greater (2) Pulverized fuel systems at any heat input rate (3) Fired or
unfired steam generators used to recover heat from combustion turbines
[heat recovery steam generators (HRSGs)] and other combustion turbine
exhaust systems at any heat input rate 1.1.1 This code covers design,
installation, operation, maintenance, and training. 1.1.2 This code covers
strength of the structure, operation and maintenance procedures, combustion
and draft control equipment, safety interlocks, alarms, trips, and other
related controls that are essential to safe equipment operation. 1.1.3 This
code does not cover process heaters used in chemical and petroleum
manufacture in which steam generation is incidental to the operation of a
processing system. 1.1.4 Chapter 5 covers single burner boilers that fire
the following fuels: (1) Fuel gas as defined in 3.3.74. (2)*Other gas
having a calorific value and characteristics similar to natural gas
A.1.1.4(2) This can include some heavier-than-air gases. (3) Fuel oil as
defined in 3.3.73.3 (4) Fuel gas and fuel oil that are fired simultaneously
for fuel transfer (5) Fuel gas and fuel oil that are fired simultaneously
and continuously 1.1.5 Chapter 6 covers multiple burner boilers firing one
or more of the following: (1) Fuel gas, as defined in 3.3.74 (2) Fuel oil,
as defined in 3.3.73.3 (3) Pulverized coal, as defined in 3.3.73.2.1 (4)
Simultaneous firing of more than one of the fuels stated in 1.1.5(1)
through 1.1.5(3) 1.1.6 Chapter 7 covers atmospheric fluidized bed boilers.
1.1.7* Chapter 8 covers HRSG systems and other combustion turbine exhaust
systems. A.1.1.7 It is not possible for this code to encompass the specific
hardware applications, nor should it be considered a cookbook for the
design of a safe HRSG system. A HRSG is a complex system, often involving
numerous components, multiple steam pressure levels, emission control
systems, and augmented air or supplementary firing. The simplest combined
cycle plant automatically has certain hazards that are common to all
designs. Coupling various 

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Lennart Thornros]

Jed,
I think you are correct in who would be more qualified in one regard;
experience and training is valuable if you want really objective scientific
measures.
However, in the real world it is a number of factors involved. We just do
not have the full picture to evaluate what would have been a better
solution taking all aspects into consideration.
The real game here seems to be about money and investment capacity. It is
of course possible that IH will come back with a rebuttal that claims the
test was not professional and the result is not proven. Then your point
will come to play.
Personally I believe this will enhance the possibilities that LENR get the
funding it deserves. The squeaky wheel story.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Alain Sepeda  wrote:
>
> about Penon "non independence", except having an italian name and having
>> done a previous test, is there any relationship established with rossi
>> predating the Ferrara test ?
>>
>
> They have been working together for many years.
>
> It seems to me that an independent test should be conducted by someone you
> have not worked with, who has not measured the performance of your previous
> devices. Also, as I said, it should be someone fully qualified and licensed
> to render a professional evaluation of an industrial-scale boiler in
> Florida. $100 million is at stake! You cannot even get a license to operate
> this kind of machine without approval from a certified, licensed engineer.
> You sure would not pay $100 million without that level of proof. It would
> be insane.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Alain Sepeda  wrote:

about Penon "non independence", except having an italian name and having
> done a previous test, is there any relationship established with rossi
> predating the Ferrara test ?
>

They have been working together for many years.

It seems to me that an independent test should be conducted by someone you
have not worked with, who has not measured the performance of your previous
devices. Also, as I said, it should be someone fully qualified and licensed
to render a professional evaluation of an industrial-scale boiler in
Florida. $100 million is at stake! You cannot even get a license to operate
this kind of machine without approval from a certified, licensed engineer.
You sure would not pay $100 million without that level of proof. It would
be insane.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Blaze Spinnaker]

"I think the fight is over the $10 million in escrow, which looks like it
may go back to IH if the deal falls through."

I saw nothing saying the money is in escrow.   Pretty sure it's been paid
to leonardo.  See line 58

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Alain Sepeda]

about Penon "non independence", except having an italian name and having
done a previous test, is there any relationship established with rossi
predating the Ferrara test ?

for the rest I agree, a good HVAC engineer would do it better.

2016-04-07 4:06 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
>> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
>> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
>> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>>
>
> As it happens, I just posted a message describing some of the reasons I am
> not impressed.
>
> If you read the report, and you were impressed, I think you need to learn
> a little more about calorimetry. It was as bad as the Lugano report. Some
> of the same mistakes were in both.
>
>
>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
>> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
>> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
>> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
>> difference.
>>
>
> A license and the proper procedures can be the difference between life and
> death. The exams are NOT simple. I have seen them, and I am sure I would
> fail them.
>
> I have never worked with large industrial equipment. But I have been in
> factories, and in ship engine rooms. I have talked to OSHA inspectors and
> HVAC engineers. My late father was fireman first class in the engine room
> of a steamship built around 1910, and he told me a lot about it. He did
> that for 6 years until his arm was crushed in an accident. There are not
> one, not two, but DOZENS of ways you can kill yourself, blow up the
> building or sink the ship when you make a mistake with a boiler. Even
> today, with all the automatic controls, it is still dangerous. And yes, you
> can confuse 200 kW with 1 MW (or vice versa) by doing it wrong. That is why
> boilers blow up. Look at Defkalion for an example of how badly you can make
> a mistake doing industrial scale calorimetry.
>
>
>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
>> are way out of line. IH does not know anything.
>>
>
> I have met with those people at conferences. I can judge their knowledge.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Craig Haynie]

"...then Rossi would be smart to simply cancel IH's license and go for 
his own $500 billion IPO next month. Let IH sue him if they don't like 
the cancellation."


I think the fight is over the $10 million in escrow, which looks like it 
may go back to IH if the deal falls through.


Craig

On 04/06/2016 11:57 PM, Jones Beene wrote:

-Original Message-
From: Craig Haynie


Actually, this whole mystery could be the result of a failure by IH to raise 
the expected $89 million to finalize the deal.

Maybe, but if Rossi really has the goods ... given that useless concepts like 
"Twitter" are valued at $24 billion IPO with almost no sustainable income, then 
Rossi would be smart to simply cancel IH's license and go for his own $500 billion IPO 
next month. Let IH sue him if they don't like the cancellation.

The fact he is even pursuing the lawsuit is insane if the technology is solid, 
since his Lawyer will cost him more than an IPO, out of pocket (the Banks get 
their cut at the end). This little bit of financial realism is indicative that 
Rossi does not believe his own COP=50 nonsense.

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[H LV]

"According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day
test period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in
excess of six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant,
often generating energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of
energy consumed during the same period."

The meaning of "consistently generated" is vague. Does it mean total
output energy exceeded total input energy over the 352 day test or
does mean there were recurring periods during the 352 day test when
output energy exceeded input energy.

Harry



>
> https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2970-Press-Release-Cold-Fusion-LENR-Verified-Inventor-Sues-Industrial-Heat-LLC/
>
> Here is the entire press release:
>
>
> Leonardo Corporation announced today that on March 29, 2016, Leonardo
> Corporation received independent third party validation of the
> overwhelmingly positive results of a nearly yearlong test of Leonardo's 1MW
> Energy Catalyzer ("E-Cat"). According to the inventor, Andrea Rossi, the
> E-Cat generates a low energy nuclear reaction ("LENR") which produces excess
> heat energy at a cost substantially below more traditional energy sources.
> According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
> period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
> (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
> energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
> same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers the
> results of the third party test to be "an overwhelming success" and that
> "the world is one step closer to the realization of a commercially available
> new, clean and efficient energy source."
>
> The independent third party validation test was performed by Dr. Ing. Fabio
> Penon, a Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering, at the behest of Leonardo Corporation
> and one of its licensees, Industrial Heat, LLC. as both desired independent
> third party verification of the sustainability of the energy production of
> the E-Cat over a prolonged period. "The results of Dr. Penon's test was
> consistent with the measurements taken by the representatives of Leonardo
> Corporation and Industrial Heat respectively during the course of the test"
> said inventor Andrea Rossi.
>
> "Leonardo Corporation is working diligently with its licensees, corporate
> partners and material suppliers to implement a production and distribution
> plan consistent with the expected demand for the E-Cat units when they are
> made commercially available" stated Rossi.
>
> Notwithstanding, Licensee Industrial Heat continued involvement in the
> development and manufacturing of the E-Cat is uncertain at this time. As
> stated in a lawsuit filed by The Silver Law Group, P.A. on behalf of
> Leonardo Corporation on April 5, 2016, Leonardo Corporation believes
> thatIndustrial Heat breached the terms of its license agreement and
> misappropriated Leonardo Corporation's intellectual property relating to the
> E-Cat. Additional information is available regarding the E-Cat
> atwww.ecat.com. The lawsuit can be viewed at pacer.gov, Case No.
> 16-CV-21199-JLK, U.S. District Court, Southern District ofFlorida. Leonardo
> Corporation does not anticipate that there will be any delay in the
> commercial release of the E-Cat technology as a result of the lawsuit.

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Lennart Thornros]

Once again it is not judging about how well it worked for you. Just saying
that there is no guarantee coming from being licensed.
I could tell you the opposite experience when common sense did not give me
a license for brokering companies because I had no experience in Real
Estate sales.
There is not any negative coming from a license. It is just not a
qualification / guarantee..

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:47 PM, Frank Znidarsic <fznidar...@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Frank Znidarsic <fznidar...@aol.com>
> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
> Sent: Thu, Apr 7, 2016 12:30 am
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor
> Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.
>
> Sorry but
> license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees
>
>
>
> Not so.  I am licensed professional engineer in PA.  I had to take a test
> upon graduation called the EIT.
> About 1/2 of the engineers failed.  I passed.
>
> Then I had to work for 5 years under the supervision of a professional
> engineer.  I was lucky to get this.
>
> Finally I had to take the PE exam.  Many tried to the pass the exam
> several times and failed each time.
> I studied for 6 months.  It was a hard exam.
>
> There is nothing simple about it.
>
> Frank Znidarsic PE
>
> I worked 15 years at large utility doing a good job.  My job was
> eliminated in a downsizing.  I complained,  I was one of the few engineers
> with a PE license and military service.  Human resources told me point
> blank "affirmative action trumps both military survive and a PE licence."
>  Hey, that's not what they told me while I was in the military.  What about
> that builds character stuff!
>
> My cozen Bill kept his job and got more offers than I ever did.  How do
> you do it Bill?  He explained that he is a disabled vet.  Disabled vet
> trumps affirmative action, PE license, and everything else.  He advised
> that I should have shot myself in the foot when I was on active duty.
>
> There you have it.  I may soon retire my license and my foot is beginning
> to hurt.
>
> Frank Z
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Lennart Thornros]

Not minimizing the test.
Just not thinking a license is indicative of good or bad.
if you pass in PA are you then suddenly no good in FL.?

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:30 PM, Frank Znidarsic  wrote:

> Sorry but
> license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees
>
>
>
> Not so.  I am licensed professional engineer in PA.  I had to take a test
> upon graduation called the EIT.
> About 1/2 of the engineers failed.  I passed.
>
> Then I had to work for 5 years under the supervision of a professional
> engineer.  I was lucky to get this.
>
> Finally I had to take the PE exam.  Many tried to the pass the exam
> several times and failed each time.
> I studied for 6 months.  It was a hard exam.
>
> There is nothing simple about it.
>
> Frank Znidarsic PE
>

Fwd: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Frank Znidarsic]

-Original Message-
From: Frank Znidarsic <fznidar...@aol.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 7, 2016 12:30 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.



Sorry but
license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees




Not so.  I am licensed professional engineer in PA.  I had to take a test upon 
graduation called the EIT.
About 1/2 of the engineers failed.  I passed.


Then I had to work for 5 years under the supervision of a professional 
engineer.  I was lucky to get this.


Finally I had to take the PE exam.  Many tried to the pass the exam several 
times and failed each time.
I studied for 6 months.  It was a hard exam.


There is nothing simple about it.  


Frank Znidarsic PE


I worked 15 years at large utility doing a good job.  My job was eliminated in 
a downsizing.  I complained,  I was one of the few engineers with a PE license 
and military service.  Human resources told me point blank "affirmative action 
trumps both military survive and a PE licence."  Hey, that's not what they told 
me while I was in the military.  What about that builds character stuff!


My cozen Bill kept his job and got more offers than I ever did.  How do you do 
it Bill?  He explained that he is a disabled vet.  Disabled vet trumps 
affirmative action, PE license, and everything else.  He advised that I should 
have shot myself in the foot when I was on active duty.


There you have it.  I may soon retire my license and my foot is beginning to 
hurt.


Frank Z

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Frank Znidarsic]

Sorry but
license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees




Not so.  I am licensed professional engineer in PA.  I had to take a test upon 
graduation called the EIT.
About 1/2 of the engineers failed.  I passed.


Then I had to work for 5 years under the supervision of a professional 
engineer.  I was lucky to get this.


Finally I had to take the PE exam.  Many tried to the pass the exam several 
times and failed each time.
I studied for 6 months.  It was a hard exam.


There is nothing simple about it.  


Frank Znidarsic PE

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Lennart Thornros]

Jones ,
My evaluation of twitter is like yours.
However, are we not wrong. People actually pay that kind of money for
twitter. Or . . .

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:57 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: Craig Haynie
>
> > Actually, this whole mystery could be the result of a failure by IH to
> raise the expected $89 million to finalize the deal.
>
> Maybe, but if Rossi really has the goods ... given that useless concepts
> like "Twitter" are valued at $24 billion IPO with almost no sustainable
> income, then Rossi would be smart to simply cancel IH's license and go for
> his own $500 billion IPO next month. Let IH sue him if they don't like the
> cancellation.
>
> The fact he is even pursuing the lawsuit is insane if the technology is
> solid, since his Lawyer will cost him more than an IPO, out of pocket (the
> Banks get their cut at the end). This little bit of financial realism is
> indicative that Rossi does not believe his own COP=50 nonsense.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Lennart Thornros]

Jed,
You do not have to be impressed. Just that is not of any value. COP 6
although we talk about a conservative number. I am not licences but COP 50
I can detect particularly in a 350 day test. I just do not see the reason
to attack the person.

I appreciate your experience. It does have nothing to do with this report
or any licensing. I can pass the exam just takes some time and effort.

The problem is that you do judge people. You have no ground for that.
Meeting people at a conference - I like and believe them offering me a
beer. Then I am at home thinking - too fast. IH is an organization and know
absolutely nothing.





Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:06 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
>> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
>> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
>> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>>
>
> As it happens, I just posted a message describing some of the reasons I am
> not impressed.
>
> If you read the report, and you were impressed, I think you need to learn
> a little more about calorimetry. It was as bad as the Lugano report. Some
> of the same mistakes were in both.
>
>
>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
>> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
>> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
>> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
>> difference.
>>
>
> A license and the proper procedures can be the difference between life and
> death. The exams are NOT simple. I have seen them, and I am sure I would
> fail them.
>
> I have never worked with large industrial equipment. But I have been in
> factories, and in ship engine rooms. I have talked to OSHA inspectors and
> HVAC engineers. My late father was fireman first class in the engine room
> of a steamship built around 1910, and he told me a lot about it. He did
> that for 6 years until his arm was crushed in an accident. There are not
> one, not two, but DOZENS of ways you can kill yourself, blow up the
> building or sink the ship when you make a mistake with a boiler. Even
> today, with all the automatic controls, it is still dangerous. And yes, you
> can confuse 200 kW with 1 MW (or vice versa) by doing it wrong. That is why
> boilers blow up. Look at Defkalion for an example of how badly you can make
> a mistake doing industrial scale calorimetry.
>
>
>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
>> are way out of line. IH does not know anything.
>>
>
> I have met with those people at conferences. I can judge their knowledge.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Eric Walker]

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

The important thing is that this is not a knee-jerk reaction from Rossi.
>
> From the looks of things and based on the number of filings and so on –
> the Silver Law group has put a month or so of work into this already …
> Let’s see, 200 hours at $750/hr already and the clock is ticking…
>

Jones, you were prescient about Penon being involved.  Also, I would not be
surprised if the observation above were true.  If so, there will have been
a falling out well before the March 29 submission of the report by the ERV,
as you point out.  In light of that, the pessimistic readings of IH's
public statement were insightful.

After reading the lawsuit, I offer the following speculation:

   - IH and IPH are not able to pay the 89 million.  Perhaps Woodford
   pulled out after being approached by activist third-parties?
   - The liability of IH and IPH are claimed not to extend Cherokee, so
   there has been a refusal to pay, contrary to Rossi's understanding of
   Darden's and Vaughn's representations that the companies are owned and
   controlled by Cherokee.
   - IH got cold feet about the fact that Penon was the ERV.  Perhaps they
   were informed by some activist third-parties that he's not qualified?
   - IH invested in Brillouin, contrary to Rossi's understanding that IH
   was set up solely as a licensee of Leonardo Corp.'s IP.
   - Rossi is sure that IH have transferred trade secrets to Brillouin.

Does anyone disagree or strongly disagree with any of these possibilities?
Obviously they're speculative, and more information is needed.

There's a lot of other stuff going on in the suit, but I wonder whether
some of it (e.g., the claims of fraud) are simply a pre-emptive bargaining
strategy in anticipation of allegations of fraud that are expected to come
from IH, as others have suggested.

One thing that was a little surprising to me was that the Lugano test does
not appear to have been connected to IH.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Craig Haynie 

> Actually, this whole mystery could be the result of a failure by IH to raise 
> the expected $89 million to finalize the deal. 

Maybe, but if Rossi really has the goods ... given that useless concepts like 
"Twitter" are valued at $24 billion IPO with almost no sustainable income, then 
Rossi would be smart to simply cancel IH's license and go for his own $500 
billion IPO next month. Let IH sue him if they don't like the cancellation.

The fact he is even pursuing the lawsuit is insane if the technology is solid, 
since his Lawyer will cost him more than an IPO, out of pocket (the Banks get 
their cut at the end). This little bit of financial realism is indicative that 
Rossi does not believe his own COP=50 nonsense. 

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Craig Haynie]

Actually, this whole mystery could be the result of a failure by IH to 
raise the expected $89 million to finalize the deal. This might explain 
why they took this to the end of the trial.


Craig

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Agreed, a settlment seems likely.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Lennart Thornros  wrote:

> 89 million dollars is a lot of money.
> I think there will be a settlement within three months.
> I do not think we need to find out who is the bad boy.
> I think they all are in a league they have not played before.
> My reasoning for believing in a settlement is that they destroy the lead
> to the market if they drag this out.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Lennart Thornros  > wrote:
>
>> Jed,
>> I am amazed. You just say things. no support as far as I can see.
>> You said in black I think in red.
>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>> about them because:
>>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
>> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
>> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
>> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>>
>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi. How do you know that? How could IH
>> use a guy they suspect is in Rossi's pocket. You underestimate the players.
>>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
>> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
>> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
>> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
>> difference.
>>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
>> are way out of line. IH does not know anything. My guess is that Darden and
>> I are equal when it comes to calorimetry. Other people in IH are not in the
>> picture and then calorimetry is not the only way to get things secured.
>>
>> I will have to wait to see the report. I agree you are way too early. My
>> guess is that it will never be published, so we will never know who is
>> right. I would have agreed with you a couple of days ago. Now we might
>> see a lawsuit and then this report will be fully disclosed. It will take a
>> couple of years but . . .
>>
>>  I do not know if you doubt that we are approaching a new technology that
>> can have positive impact on many areas of life or ???
>>
>> Best Regards ,
>> Lennart Thornros
>>
>>
>> lenn...@thornros.com
>> +1 916 436 1899
>>
>> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
>> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Jed Rothwell > > wrote:
>>
>>> Lennart Thornros >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
 The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
 period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
 (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
 energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
 same period.

>>>
>>>
>>>
 It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
 the methods before you have any details.

>>>
>>> I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
>>> talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.
>>>
>>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>>> about them because:
>>>
>>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.
>>>
>>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>>>
>>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.
>>>
>>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.
>>>
>>> I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
>>> published, so we will never know who is right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
 See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is
 one step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean
 and efficient energy source."

>>>
>>> I doubt it.
>>>
>>> - Jed
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jack Cole]

Seems more likely this could be a preemptive strike by Rossi.  Maybe he
knew there would be a suit coming from IH and decided to strike first and
issue a press release.  Maybe they will also want their money back from the
flawed Lugano test.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:04 PM Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> 89 million dollars is a lot of money.
> I think there will be a settlement within three months.
> I do not think we need to find out who is the bad boy.
> I think they all are in a league they have not played before.
> My reasoning for believing in a settlement is that they destroy the lead
> to the market if they drag this out.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Lennart Thornros 
> wrote:
>
>> Jed,
>> I am amazed. You just say things. no support as far as I can see.
>> You said in black I think in red.
>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>> about them because:
>>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
>> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
>> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
>> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>>
>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi. How do you know that? How could IH
>> use a guy they suspect is in Rossi's pocket. You underestimate the players.
>>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
>> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
>> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
>> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
>> difference.
>>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
>> are way out of line. IH does not know anything. My guess is that Darden and
>> I are equal when it comes to calorimetry. Other people in IH are not in the
>> picture and then calorimetry is not the only way to get things secured.
>>
>> I will have to wait to see the report. I agree you are way too early. My
>> guess is that it will never be published, so we will never know who is
>> right. I would have agreed with you a couple of days ago. Now we might
>> see a lawsuit and then this report will be fully disclosed. It will take a
>> couple of years but . . .
>>
>>  I do not know if you doubt that we are approaching a new technology that
>> can have positive impact on many areas of life or ???
>>
>> Best Regards ,
>> Lennart Thornros
>>
>>
>> lenn...@thornros.com
>> +1 916 436 1899
>>
>> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
>> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Jed Rothwell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>>>
>>>
 The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
 period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
 (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
 energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
 same period.

>>>
>>>
>>>
 It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
 the methods before you have any details.

>>>
>>> I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
>>> talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.
>>>
>>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>>> about them because:
>>>
>>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.
>>>
>>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>>>
>>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.
>>>
>>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.
>>>
>>> I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
>>> published, so we will never know who is right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
 See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is
 one step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean
 and efficient energy source."

>>>
>>> I doubt it.
>>>
>>> - Jed
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Lennart Thornros  wrote:


> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>

As it happens, I just posted a message describing some of the reasons I am
not impressed.

If you read the report, and you were impressed, I think you need to learn a
little more about calorimetry. It was as bad as the Lugano report. Some of
the same mistakes were in both.



> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
> difference.
>

A license and the proper procedures can be the difference between life and
death. The exams are NOT simple. I have seen them, and I am sure I would
fail them.

I have never worked with large industrial equipment. But I have been in
factories, and in ship engine rooms. I have talked to OSHA inspectors and
HVAC engineers. My late father was fireman first class in the engine room
of a steamship built around 1910, and he told me a lot about it. He did
that for 6 years until his arm was crushed in an accident. There are not
one, not two, but DOZENS of ways you can kill yourself, blow up the
building or sink the ship when you make a mistake with a boiler. Even
today, with all the automatic controls, it is still dangerous. And yes, you
can confuse 200 kW with 1 MW (or vice versa) by doing it wrong. That is why
boilers blow up. Look at Defkalion for an example of how badly you can make
a mistake doing industrial scale calorimetry.



> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
> are way out of line. IH does not know anything.
>

I have met with those people at conferences. I can judge their knowledge.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Lennart Thornros]

89 million dollars is a lot of money.
I think there will be a settlement within three months.
I do not think we need to find out who is the bad boy.
I think they all are in a league they have not played before.
My reasoning for believing in a settlement is that they destroy the lead to
the market if they drag this out.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> Jed,
> I am amazed. You just say things. no support as far as I can see.
> You said in black I think in red.
> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts about
> them because:
>
> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>
> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi. How do you know that? How could IH
> use a guy they suspect is in Rossi's pocket. You underestimate the players.
>
> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
> difference.
>
> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
> are way out of line. IH does not know anything. My guess is that Darden and
> I are equal when it comes to calorimetry. Other people in IH are not in the
> picture and then calorimetry is not the only way to get things secured.
>
> I will have to wait to see the report. I agree you are way too early. My
> guess is that it will never be published, so we will never know who is
> right. I would have agreed with you a couple of days ago. Now we might
> see a lawsuit and then this report will be fully disclosed. It will take a
> couple of years but . . .
>
>  I do not know if you doubt that we are approaching a new technology that
> can have positive impact on many areas of life or ???
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
>>>  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
>>> period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
>>> (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
>>> energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
>>> same period.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
>>> the methods before you have any details.
>>>
>>
>> I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
>> talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.
>>
>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>> about them because:
>>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.
>>
>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.
>>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.
>>
>> I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
>> published, so we will never know who is right.
>>
>>
>>
>>> See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one
>>> step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean and
>>> efficient energy source."
>>>
>>
>> I doubt it.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Lennart Thornros]

Jed,
I am amazed. You just say things. no support as far as I can see.
You said in black I think in red.
While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts about
them because:

1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.

2. Penon is not independent of Rossi. How do you know that? How could IH
use a guy they suspect is in Rossi's pocket. You underestimate the players.

3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry but
license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I know
there is probably some experience required but that can always be fixed -
believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a difference.

4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you are
way out of line. IH does not know anything. My guess is that Darden and I
are equal when it comes to calorimetry. Other people in IH are not in the
picture and then calorimetry is not the only way to get things secured.

I will have to wait to see the report. I agree you are way too early. My
guess is that it will never be published, so we will never know who is
right. I would have agreed with you a couple of days ago. Now we might see
a lawsuit and then this report will be fully disclosed. It will take a
couple of years but . . .

 I do not know if you doubt that we are approaching a new technology that
can have positive impact on many areas of life or ???

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
>
>> The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
>>  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
>> period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
>> (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
>> energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
>> same period.
>>
>
>
>
>> It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
>> the methods before you have any details.
>>
>
> I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
> talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.
>
> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts about
> them because:
>
> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.
>
> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>
> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.
>
> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.
>
> I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
> published, so we will never know who is right.
>
>
>
>> See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one
>> step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean and
>> efficient energy source."
>>
>
> I doubt it.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Eric Walker]

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>

I'm curious how things got this far in the negotiation of the test between
Rossi and IH.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Lennart Thornros  wrote:


> The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
>  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
> period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
> (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
> energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
> same period.
>



> It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
> the methods before you have any details.
>

I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.

While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts about
them because:

1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.

2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.

3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.

4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.

I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
published, so we will never know who is right.



> See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one
> step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean and
> efficient energy source."
>

I doubt it.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Robert Dorr]

In the court filing it says that the average COP was in excess of 50 
and sometimes in excess of 60. All I can say is WOW! I hope it holds 
true. A lot of grist for the mill.


Robert Dorr
WA7ZQR



At 04:55 PM 4/6/2016, you wrote:
I have a feeling that Mr. Fulvio Fabiani has contributed to the 
development of the E-Cat in a big way and now that he is an IH 
employee, his status as a E-Cat developer gives IH a reason to claim 
a part of Rossi's IP. Rossi has always said that his team is a major 
part of E-Cat development. Maybe, that team, the members of the team 
and the company that these people work for should get a part of that IP.


Rossi has often said that he couldn't have done it without his team 
(he may regret saying such things) then they may rightly be co-inventors.

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Axil Axil]

I have a feeling that Mr. Fulvio Fabiani has contributed to the development
of the E-Cat in a big way and now that he is an IH employee, his status as
a E-Cat developer gives IH a reason to claim a part of Rossi's IP. Rossi
has always said that his team is a major part of E-Cat development. Maybe,
that team, the members of the team and the company that these people work
for should get a part of that IP.

Rossi has often said that he couldn't have done it without his team (he may
regret saying such things) then they may rightly be co-inventors.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Terry Blanton <hohlr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> She was the first OS I fell in love with.
>
> And I've ordered two copies of the robot:
>
>
> http://www.wired.com/2016/04/the-scarlett-johansson-bot-signals-some-icky-things-about-our-future/
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Russ George <russ.geo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well dang it you might be right, Scarlett is already a geek fav!
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:28 PM
>> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified -
>> Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George <russ.geo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world
>> changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only
>> thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron
>> in a major role in the movie.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While
>> Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of
>> "The Devil's Advocate".
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Terry Blanton]

She was the first OS I fell in love with.

And I've ordered two copies of the robot:

http://www.wired.com/2016/04/the-scarlett-johansson-bot-signals-some-icky-things-about-our-future/

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Russ George <russ.geo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well dang it you might be right, Scarlett is already a geek fav!
>
>
>
> *From:* Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:28 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified -
> Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George <russ.geo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world
> changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only
> thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron
> in a major role in the movie.
>
>
>
> Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While
> Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of
> "The Devil's Advocate".
>

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Russ George]

Here’s my blog post on the Rossi Press release…. Easy to share. Join in and 
help cold fusion fuse… 
http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2016/04/06/rossi-e-cat-press-release/

 

From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George <russ.geo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:russ.geo...@gmail.com> > wrote:

One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world 
changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only 
thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron in 
a major role in the movie.

 

Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While 
Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of "The 
Devil's Advocate". 

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Russ George]

Well dang it you might be right, Scarlett is already a geek fav!

 

From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George <russ.geo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:russ.geo...@gmail.com> > wrote:

One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world 
changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only 
thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron in 
a major role in the movie.

 

Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While 
Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of "The 
Devil's Advocate". 

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Terry Blanton]

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world
> changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only
> thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron
> in a major role in the movie.
>

Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While
Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of
"The Devil's Advocate".

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Russ George]

One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world 
changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only 
thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron in 
a major role in the movie.

 

From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 3:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

 

I hope Rossi has a good case.  We southerner's tend to be vindictive. 

 

>From AR's lawyer's webpage:'

 

"Our philosophy is to personally serve our clients and beat their expectations, 
at the lowest possible cost."

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Terry Blanton]

I hope Rossi has a good case.  We southerner's tend to be vindictive.

>From AR's lawyer's webpage:'

"Our philosophy is to personally serve our clients and beat their
expectations, at the lowest possible cost."

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Patrick Ellul]

That filing is a whole novel.
"By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during
the Guaranteed Performance Test was substantially greater than fifty (50)
times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same
period."

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:35 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Was the payment due to Rossi based on the COP and was the COP so large
> that this resultant huge payment could not be covered by IH?
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> This info came from someone who is trying to get permission to post it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree it is distasteful. You don’t have to go to NC State to realize
>> that when you lie down with dogs, you will likely get fleas…
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jed Rothwell
>>
>> There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the
>> test was shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and
>> having it in litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure.
>> As Brian Ahern predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or
>> if there was one, it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom
>> large, when it gets down to basic honesty.
>>
>>
>>
>> You must be reading the documents to know these details. I guess you paid
>> to see them. Can you upload them? Is that legal? (I do not know anything
>> about court cases or legal documents of this nature.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Part of me does not even want to know the gory details.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Axil Axil]

Was the payment due to Rossi based on the COP and was the COP so large that
this resultant huge payment could not be covered by IH?

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> This info came from someone who is trying to get permission to post it.
>
>
>
> I agree it is distasteful. You don’t have to go to NC State to realize
> that when you lie down with dogs, you will likely get fleas…
>
>
>
> *From:* Jed Rothwell
>
> There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the test
> was shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and having it
> in litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure. As Brian
> Ahern predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or if there
> was one, it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom large,
> when it gets down to basic honesty.
>
>
>
> You must be reading the documents to know these details. I guess you paid
> to see them. Can you upload them? Is that legal? (I do not know anything
> about court cases or legal documents of this nature.)
>
>
>
> Part of me does not even want to know the gory details.
>
>
>
> - Jed
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jones Beene]

This info came from someone who is trying to get permission to post it.

 

I agree it is distasteful. You don’t have to go to NC State to realize that 
when you lie down with dogs, you will likely get fleas… 

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the test was 
shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and having it in 
litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure. As Brian Ahern 
predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or if there was one, 
it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom large, when it gets 
down to basic honesty.

 

You must be reading the documents to know these details. I guess you paid to 
see them. Can you upload them? Is that legal? (I do not know anything about 
court cases or legal documents of this nature.)

 

Part of me does not even want to know the gory details.

 

- Jed

 

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Patrick Ellul]

Frank has posted one of the documents here:
http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/06/complaint-of-andrea-rossi-and-leonardo-corp-court-document-cop-substantially-greater-than-fifty-50-during-test/

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:20 AM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> Jed,
> The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
>  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
> period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
> (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
> energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
> same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers
> the results of the third party test to be "an overwhelming success" and
> that
> It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
> the methods before you have any details.
> Just let things play out. It has been in pipeline for over 25 years, there
> is result from serious tests that confirm that it is possible. I agree
> there are several steps to go: engineering, theory etc.. See the positive
> and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one step closer to the
> realization of a commercially available new, clean and efficient energy
> source."
>
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>>
>> I disagree Jed.
>>> I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is
>>> 6.
>>>
>>
>> You mean in the 2012 Penon report. Right? Where does it say the COP is 6?
>> It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW.
>>
>> I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
>> use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera.
>>
>> I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I
>> am not impressed. I have no idea how Penon measured the output from the 1
>> MW reactor, but he does not seem good at calorimetry.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you
>>> can judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new
>>> obstacles.
>>>
>>
>> If you are talking about the 2012 report we have had plenty of time and
>> information. I am not sure what you refer to.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Lennart Thornros]

Jed,
The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
 According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
(6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers the
results of the third party test to be "an overwhelming success" and that
It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and the
methods before you have any details.
Just let things play out. It has been in pipeline for over 25 years, there
is result from serious tests that confirm that it is possible. I agree
there are several steps to go: engineering, theory etc.. See the positive
and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one step closer to the
realization of a commercially available new, clean and efficient energy
source."


Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
> I disagree Jed.
>> I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is 6.
>>
>
> You mean in the 2012 Penon report. Right? Where does it say the COP is 6?
> It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW.
>
> I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
> use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera.
>
> I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I
> am not impressed. I have no idea how Penon measured the output from the 1
> MW reactor, but he does not seem good at calorimetry.
>
>
>
>> The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you can
>> judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new obstacles.
>>
>
> If you are talking about the 2012 report we have had plenty of time and
> information. I am not sure what you refer to.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Patrick Ellul]

Here is the link to the papers:
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
> I disagree Jed.
>> I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is 6.
>>
>
> You mean in the 2012 Penon report. Right? Where does it say the COP is 6?
> It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW.
>
> I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
> use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera.
>
> I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I
> am not impressed. I have no idea how Penon measured the output from the 1
> MW reactor, but he does not seem good at calorimetry.
>
>
>
>> The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you can
>> judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new obstacles.
>>
>
> If you are talking about the 2012 report we have had plenty of time and
> information. I am not sure what you refer to.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Lennart Thornros  wrote:

I disagree Jed.
> I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is 6.
>

You mean in the 2012 Penon report. Right? Where does it say the COP is 6?
It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW.

I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera.

I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I am
not impressed. I have no idea how Penon measured the output from the 1 MW
reactor, but he does not seem good at calorimetry.



> The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you can
> judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new obstacles.
>

If you are talking about the 2012 report we have had plenty of time and
information. I am not sure what you refer to.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:

There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the test
> was shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and having it
> in litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure. As Brian
> Ahern predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or if there
> was one, it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom large,
> when it gets down to basic honesty.
>

You must be reading the documents to know these details. I guess you paid
to see them. Can you upload them? Is that legal? (I do not know anything
about court cases or legal documents of this nature.)

Part of me does not even want to know the gory details.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Lennart Thornros]

I disagree Jed.
I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is 6.
The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you can
judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new obstacles.
Yes, it is a pity that obviously IH and Rossi have different opinion about
hoe to go on. It is not unusual for partnership to face problems - the
opposite is unusual.

I think - without being able to examine the scientific strengths of the
discussions here at  Vortex - that there is a rather good theory being
formed. Many details but I can hear that there is some kind of joint
'noise' in comparison to previous. Than we have Rossi's report about COP is
six. This is a fall forward.

I am sure money will be poured into research and result will follow.
Rossi's X-cat will be talked about in Stockholm in June.

I understand that if you believed it should come out clear theories and
firm plans for automated assembly plants then it is disappointing. Really
it is very good news (except for Rossi and IH, having to sort things out in
court.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov, Case No. 16-CV-21199-JLK, I
> would appreciate it.
>
> This press release confirms that "the independent third party validation
> test was performed by Dr. Ing. Fabio Penon, a Ph.D. in Nuclear
> Engineering." As I wrote here previously, this is like having an HVAC
> engineer look for radioactivity from a nuclear reactor.
>
> Jones Beene has a low opinion of Dr. Penon, which I suppose is based on
> this:
>
> http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf
>
> I agree this is nothing to write home about.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Russ George  wrote:

Anyone other than me seeing a DDOS attack on their cold fusion blog just
> now!
>

Whose blog? Rossi's, or lenr-forum.com? The latter is fine.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jones Beene]

The drama is intense…

 

The important thing is that this is not a knee-jerk reaction from Rossi.

>From the looks of things and based on the number of filings and so on – the 
>Silver Law group has put a month or so of work into this already … Let’s see, 
>200 hours at $750/hr already and the clock is ticking…

 

There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the test was 
shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and having it in 
litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure. As Brian Ahern 
predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or if there was one, 
it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom large, when it gets 
down to basic honesty.

 

This is horrible news for the field of LENR, but not unexpected.

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

 

Ah. You have to pay for it. Even though this is a .gov site.

 

Thanks, anyway.

 

 

Jones Beene  wrote:

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

 

 

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Russ George]

Anyone other than me seeing a DDOS attack on their cold fusion blog just now!

 

From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

 

Ah. You have to pay for it. Even though this is a .gov site.

 

Thanks, anyway.

 

 

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net 
<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net> > wrote:

 

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

 

If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov <http://pacer.gov> , Case No. 
16-CV-21199-JLK, I would appreciate it.

 

 

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

Ah. You have to pay for it. Even though this is a .gov site.

Thanks, anyway.


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jed Rothwell
>
>
>
> If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov, Case No. 16-CV-21199-JLK, I
> would appreciate it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jones Beene]

 

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

 

If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov, Case No. 16-CV-21199-JLK, I would 
appreciate it.

 

 

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

 

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov, Case No. 16-CV-21199-JLK, I
would appreciate it.

This press release confirms that "the independent third party validation
test was performed by Dr. Ing. Fabio Penon, a Ph.D. in Nuclear
Engineering." As I wrote here previously, this is like having an HVAC
engineer look for radioactivity from a nuclear reactor.

Jones Beene has a low opinion of Dr. Penon, which I suppose is based on
this:

http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf

I agree this is nothing to write home about.

- Jed

[Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Jed Rothwell]

See:

https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2970-Press-Release-Cold-Fusion-LENR-Verified-Inventor-Sues-Industrial-Heat-LLC/

Here is the entire press release:


Leonardo Corporation announced today that on March 29, 2016, Leonardo
Corporation received independent third party validation of the
overwhelmingly positive results of a nearly yearlong test of Leonardo's 1MW
Energy Catalyzer ("E-Cat"). According to the inventor, Andrea Rossi, the
E-Cat generates a low energy nuclear reaction ("LENR") which produces
excess heat energy at a cost substantially below more traditional energy
sources. According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day
test period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of
six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers the
results of the third party test to be "an overwhelming success" and that
"the world is one step closer to the realization of a commercially
available new, clean and efficient energy source."

The independent third party validation test was performed by Dr. Ing. Fabio
Penon, a Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering, at the behest of Leonardo
Corporation and one of its licensees, Industrial Heat, LLC. as both desired
independent third party verification of the sustainability of the energy
production of the E-Cat over a prolonged period. "The results of Dr.
Penon's test was consistent with the measurements taken by the
representatives of Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat respectively
during the course of the test" said inventor Andrea Rossi.

"Leonardo Corporation is working diligently with its licensees, corporate
partners and material suppliers to implement a production and distribution
plan consistent with the expected demand for the E-Cat units when they are
made commercially available" stated Rossi.

Notwithstanding, Licensee Industrial Heat continued involvement in the
development and manufacturing of the E-Cat is uncertain at this time. As
stated in a lawsuit filed by The Silver Law Group, P.A. on behalf of
Leonardo Corporation on April 5, 2016, Leonardo Corporation believes
thatIndustrial Heat breached the terms of its license agreement and
misappropriated Leonardo Corporation's intellectual property relating to
the E-Cat. Additional information is available regarding the E-Cat
atwww.ecat.com. The lawsuit can be viewed at pacer.gov, Case No.
16-CV-21199-JLK, U.S. District Court, Southern District ofFlorida. Leonardo
Corporation does not anticipate that there will be any delay in the
commercial release of the E-Cat technology as a result of the lawsuit.