[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

[Bob Higgins]

That's not what their video implies.  Similar techniques are used in CCD
sensors to remove dark current using biasing techniques to affect the
electron recombination.

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 9:57 PM, Bob Cook <frobertc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> It could be that the solar boost box creates resonances that increase the
> spectrum of the incoming solar energy that is converted to usable
> current/cell voltages--in other words makes a solar photon conversion more
> probable.
>
> Bob Cook
>
> --
> *From:* Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2016 3:13 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in
> Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected
>
> From their video, it looks like they were trying to find a way to
> eliminate electron recombination in the silicon lattice to improve
> efficiency.  They may be planning to do that with fields created with the
> pyroelectric films.  Since the typical delta T from front to back in the
> panel is 26C, there is the opportunity to have a pyroelectric film to
> generate a field for use in their function.  In the mean time, they may be
> applying the bias with an electrical circuit to model the effects of the
> pyroelectric film on the panel efficiency (in the manner they developed to
> eliminate the electron recombination).
>
> It is interesting technology.  If they are able to simulate, what would
> keep them from deploying the electronic method?
>

Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

[Bob Cook]

It could be that the solar boost box creates resonances that increase the 
spectrum of the incoming solar energy that is converted to usable current/cell 
voltages--in other words makes a solar photon conversion more probable.


Bob Cook



From: Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 3:13 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu 
Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

>From their video, it looks like they were trying to find a way to eliminate 
>electron recombination in the silicon lattice to improve efficiency.  They may 
>be planning to do that with fields created with the pyroelectric films.  Since 
>the typical delta T from front to back in the panel is 26C, there is the 
>opportunity to have a pyroelectric film to generate a field for use in their 
>function.  In the mean time, they may be applying the bias with an electrical 
>circuit to model the effects of the pyroelectric film on the panel efficiency 
>(in the manner they developed to eliminate the electron recombination).

It is interesting technology.  If they are able to simulate, what would keep 
them from deploying the electronic method?

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Jones Beene 
<jone...@pacbell.net<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:
Stephen,

I’m not sure the E field is static. It could look more like electronic noise. 
The inventor – Kumar - also has other patent apps which indicate the way he is 
going.

20150108851 Photovoltaic systems with shaped high frequency electric pulses
At least one photovoltaic (PV) cell comprising a semiconductor material having 
p-n junctions formed therein, and configured to generate a PV output voltage in 
response to light; and a pulse generator coupled to receive a PV output voltage 
and generate electric output pulses therefrom.

20150107644 Photovoltaic efficiency using high frequency electric pulses
A system can include at least one solar cell comprising a semiconductor 
material having p-n junctions formed therein; and a pulse generator 
electrically coupled to the solar cell and configured to apply electric pulses 
to dynamically alter a band gap of the semiconductor material as photons are 
received

Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

[Bob Cook]

It could be that the solar boost box creates resonances that increase the 
spectrum of the incoming solar energy that is converted to usable current/cell 
voltages--in other words makes a solar photon conversion more probable.


Bob Cook



From: Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:32 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu 
Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected


Terry,



They seem to contradict themselves: elsewhere they claim “the Efficoat 
technology” provides 15-20% improvement in power production from ordinary solar 
panels over the course of a typical day.” This would lead one to believe that 
the panels are coated.



If the coating is not on the panels but contained in a remote box, then why not 
sell the box to Tesla and let the cars get 20% more out of the battery pack ? 
Who needs the solar panels?



Hmmm … do we know that Tesla doesn’t do this already ?



From: Terry Blanton

Is there a better description of their tech?  Say, a patent app?  'Cuz I don't 
get the impression that they do anything to the solar cell itself.  From the 
FAQ:

Is the Pyroelectric coating on the panel directly?

No, the Pyroelectric glass and coating reside inside the sealed Ultrasolar 
QuantunBoost™ device. There are no user serviceable parts in the device that 
need to be accessed by the user or field technician.

How does Pyroelectric help increase the power of a solar cell?

We create electric field from a coating of pyroelectric material on glass. The 
field is applied on the solar cell using the electrodes of the solar cell. The 
applied electric field removes electrons and holes from traps and accelerates 
them towards the electrodes. This increases the current resulting in increase 
of DC power from the panel.



So, er, has anyone tried substituting a battery for the solar cells?  After 
all, as Monty Python says, "Every electron is special."  So the origin should 
not matter.  (It was 'electron', right?)



Okay, I'll stop.  Bollocks!

Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

[Bob Cook]

I would add that the efficiency of the battery system to take up energy and 
then deliver it as usable electricity is another parameter that must be 
factored in.


Bob Cook



From: Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 8:45 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs 
Plunging Faster Than Expected

It looks like an interesting technology.  However, the real metric is not in 
panel efficiency or system efficiency, it is total$/kWh.  This has to include 
the longevity of the panel.  The total cost/kWh over the life of the panel is 
its installed cost (+maintenance costs) amortized over the life of the panel 
divided by the total kWh produced during its lifetime.  Most solar 
installations on Earth are not limited by available area, they are chosen based 
on the cost per kWh produced.

This shows up, for example, in comparison of poly-crystalline panels to thin 
film panels.  Thin film are much cheaper per kW, but their lifetime is less 
than half that of the poly panels, making their total cost per kWh higher.

It will be interesting to see if this technology has a business case in the end.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:41 AM, Jones Beene 
<jone...@pacbell.net<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:
This brings to mind a local company (SF Bay) with an add-on product for solar 
cells which they claim increases the power and efficiency. The technology uses 
a pyroelectric coating for the cells and a feedback mechanism.

The company is UltraSolar. It has been mentioned before here, but it may not 
yet be ready for prime time as initial products received complaints.

http://www.ultrasolar.com/files/Videos/QB%20Demo%20Video.ogv

http://www.ultrasolar.com/technology.html


From: Blaze Spinnaker

http://rameznaam.com/2016/09/21/new-record-low-solar-price-in-abu-dhabi-costs-plunging-faster-than-expected/

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

[Bob Higgins]

>From their video, it looks like they were trying to find a way to eliminate
electron recombination in the silicon lattice to improve efficiency.  They
may be planning to do that with fields created with the pyroelectric
films.  Since the typical delta T from front to back in the panel is 26C,
there is the opportunity to have a pyroelectric film to generate a field
for use in their function.  In the mean time, they may be applying the bias
with an electrical circuit to model the effects of the pyroelectric film on
the panel efficiency (in the manner they developed to eliminate the
electron recombination).

It is interesting technology.  If they are able to simulate, what would
keep them from deploying the electronic method?

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Stephen,
>
>
>
> I’m not sure the E field is static. It could look more like electronic
> noise. The inventor – Kumar - also has other patent apps which indicate the
> way he is going.
>
>
>
> 20150108851 *Photovoltaic systems with shaped high frequency electric
> pulses*
>
> At least one photovoltaic (PV) cell comprising a semiconductor material
> having p-n junctions formed therein, and configured to generate a PV output
> voltage in response to light; and a pulse generator coupled to receive a PV
> output voltage and generate electric output pulses therefrom.
>
>
>
> 20150107644 *Photovoltaic efficiency using high frequency electric pulses*
>
> A system can include at least one solar cell comprising a semiconductor
> material having p-n junctions formed therein; and a pulse generator
> electrically coupled to the solar cell and configured to apply electric
> pulses to dynamically alter a band gap of the semiconductor material as
> photons are received
>

[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

[Jones Beene]

Stephen,

 

I’m not sure the E field is static. It could look more like electronic noise. 
The inventor – Kumar - also has other patent apps which indicate the way he is 
going.

 

20150108851 Photovoltaic systems with shaped high frequency electric pulses

At least one photovoltaic (PV) cell comprising a semiconductor material having 
p-n junctions formed therein, and configured to generate a PV output voltage in 
response to light; and a pulse generator coupled to receive a PV output voltage 
and generate electric output pulses therefrom.

 

20150107644 Photovoltaic efficiency using high frequency electric pulses

A system can include at least one solar cell comprising a semiconductor 
material having p-n junctions formed therein; and a pulse generator 
electrically coupled to the solar cell and configured to apply electric pulses 
to dynamically alter a band gap of the semiconductor material as photons are 
received 

 

From: Stephen A. Lawrence 

 

Sounds sort of reasonable.

But something comes to mind -- the E field they apply, as described, doesn't do 
any work, as far as I can tell.  It just biases the cell.  IOW it's a static E 
field.

In particular, since there's no path for the charge to leave the "plates" 
(front and back coatings) there's certainly no way for the charge to do any 
work.

But that means it also consumes no energy.  Consequently, all you'd need are 
conductive coatings on the front and back of the cell, and you could charge 
them from anything at all, including a voltage multiplier driven by the cell's 
own output.  In essence, you stick the cell into the middle of a charged 
capacitor.

It's not hard to believe this would affect the solar cell, and might very well 
improve its efficiency.  OTOH if that's correct, then the "pyrolytic film" 
seems like unnecessary decoration on the basic idea.

Jones Beene wrote:

 

Here is the patent application – or one of them

https://www.google.com/patents/US20120216847

 

Abstract

A method to increase the efficiency of a solar cell comprises applying one of a 
transparent pyroelectric film and a plurality of films in a stack on a front 
surface of the solar cell and applying one of an opaque pyroelectric film and 
plurality of films in a stack on another surface of the solar cell. An 
electromotive force is generated to bias the solar cell such that an open 
circuit voltage is created.

 

 

Terry,

 

They seem to contradict themselves: elsewhere they claim “the Efficoat 
technology” provides 15-20% improvement in power production from ordinary solar 
panels over the course of a typical day.” This would lead one to believe that 
the panels are coated.  

 

If the coating is not on the panels but contained in a remote box, then why not 
sell the box to Tesla and let the cars get 20% more out of the battery pack ? 
Who needs the solar panels? 

 

Hmmm … do we know that Tesla doesn’t do this already ?

 

From: Terry Blanton 


Is there a better description of their tech?  Say, a patent app?  'Cuz I don't 
get the impression that they do anything to the solar cell itself.  From the 
FAQ:

Is the Pyroelectric coating on the panel directly?

No, the Pyroelectric glass and coating reside inside the sealed Ultrasolar 
QuantunBoost™ device. There are no user serviceable parts in the device that 
need to be accessed by the user or field technician.

How does Pyroelectric help increase the power of a solar cell?

We create electric field from a coating of pyroelectric material on glass. The 
field is applied on the solar cell using the electrodes of the solar cell. The 
applied electric field removes electrons and holes from traps and accelerates 
them towards the electrodes. This increases the current resulting in increase 
of DC power from the panel.

 

So, er, has anyone tried substituting a battery for the solar cells?  After 
all, as Monty Python says, "Every electron is special."  So the origin should 
not matter.  (It was 'electron', right?)

 

Okay, I'll stop.  Bollocks!

 

[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

[Jones Beene]

Terry,

 

They seem to contradict themselves: elsewhere they claim “the Efficoat 
technology” provides 15-20% improvement in power production from ordinary solar 
panels over the course of a typical day.” This would lead one to believe that 
the panels are coated.  

 

If the coating is not on the panels but contained in a remote box, then why not 
sell the box to Tesla and let the cars get 20% more out of the battery pack ? 
Who needs the solar panels? 

 

Hmmm … do we know that Tesla doesn’t do this already ?

 

From: Terry Blanton 


Is there a better description of their tech?  Say, a patent app?  'Cuz I don't 
get the impression that they do anything to the solar cell itself.  From the 
FAQ:

Is the Pyroelectric coating on the panel directly?

No, the Pyroelectric glass and coating reside inside the sealed Ultrasolar 
QuantunBoost™ device. There are no user serviceable parts in the device that 
need to be accessed by the user or field technician.

How does Pyroelectric help increase the power of a solar cell?

We create electric field from a coating of pyroelectric material on glass. The 
field is applied on the solar cell using the electrodes of the solar cell. The 
applied electric field removes electrons and holes from traps and accelerates 
them towards the electrodes. This increases the current resulting in increase 
of DC power from the panel.

 

So, er, has anyone tried substituting a battery for the solar cells?  After 
all, as Monty Python says, "Every electron is special."  So the origin should 
not matter.  (It was 'electron', right?)

 

Okay, I'll stop.  Bollocks!

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
> This brings to mind a local company (SF Bay) with an add-on product for
solar cells which they claim increases the power and efficiency. The
technology uses a pyroelectric coating for the cells and a feedback
mechanism.
>
>
>
> The company is UltraSolar.


Is there a better description of their tech?  Say, a patent app?  'Cuz I
don't get the impression that they do anything to the solar cell itself.
>From the FAQ:

*Is the Pyroelectric coating on the panel directly?*

*No, the Pyroelectric glass and coating reside inside the sealed Ultrasolar
QuantunBoost™ device. There are no user serviceable parts in the device
that need to be accessed by the user or field technician.*

*How does Pyroelectric help increase the power of a solar cell?*

*We create electric field from a coating of pyroelectric material on glass.
The field is applied on the solar cell using the electrodes of the solar
cell. The applied electric field removes electrons and holes from traps and
accelerates them towards the electrodes. This increases the current
resulting in increase of DC power from the panel.*

So, er, has anyone tried substituting a battery for the solar cells?  After
all, as Monty Python says, "Every electron is special."  So the origin
should not matter.  (It was 'electron', right?)

Okay, I'll stop.  Bollocks!

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

[Bob Higgins]

It looks like an interesting technology.  However, the real metric is not
in panel efficiency or system efficiency, it is total$/kWh.  This has to
include the longevity of the panel.  The total cost/kWh over the life of
the panel is its installed cost (+maintenance costs) amortized over the
life of the panel divided by the total kWh produced during its lifetime.
Most solar installations on Earth are not limited by available area, they
are chosen based on the cost per kWh produced.

This shows up, for example, in comparison of poly-crystalline panels to
thin film panels.  Thin film are much cheaper per kW, but their lifetime is
less than half that of the poly panels, making their total cost per kWh
higher.

It will be interesting to see if this technology has a business case in the
end.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:41 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> This brings to mind a local company (SF Bay) with an add-on product for
> solar cells which they claim increases the power and efficiency. The
> technology uses a pyroelectric coating for the cells and a feedback
> mechanism.
>
>
>
> The company is UltraSolar. It has been mentioned before here, but it may
> not yet be ready for prime time as initial products received complaints.
>
>
>
> http://www.ultrasolar.com/files/Videos/QB%20Demo%20Video.ogv
>
>
>
> http://www.ultrasolar.com/technology.html
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Blaze Spinnaker
>
>
>
> http://rameznaam.com/2016/09/21/new-record-low-solar-price-
> in-abu-dhabi-costs-plunging-faster-than-expected/
>