Re: [Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
On 2012-06-13 23:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello Group, I asked Roy Virgilio to provide some clarifications on certain passages of his previous forum post, managing to obtain some more information. I will translate his new message below (thanks again Google Translate): http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-piantelli-7.html#post119337343 Here I see there's need to clarify a point. Piantelli NOT HAVE A READY PRODUCT yet. He does not have a box to sell. He is not Rossi. Please change your point of view. The fundraising is done to finance the CONSTRUCTION of the prototype. We are in the RESEARCH phase. We do not sell anything. This is about betting, risking. Metalenergy, a subsidiary of Nichenergy (a company directly created by Piantelli and and a few other close associates), is the company which has the European exclusive for the sale of FUTURE generators between 101 watts and 7 kW. Or sale of licenses. Nichenergy is only the company, closed to everybody, which manages the laboratory and the development of the [Ni-H] discovery. It does the research. Once this research will have borne fruit, the enjoyment of these will come through Metalenergy. Who is in Metalenergy will at that point enjoy direct earnings and the royalties derived from the sale of products throughout Europe. CURRENTLY who enters Metalenergy, actually finances Nichenergy, allowing it to complete the research and development. To summarize, the fundraiser we're going to open soon will be to fund the research and development of a prototype, and if all goes well, only then it will be possible to see the results deriving from the sale of products that DEPEND on research today. So, who wants to put some money on this, will have to consider it almost as a donation or, more realistically, as a medium / high risk investment. But there is this to consider: the association will purchase a share of Metalenergy worth today, say, 10 euros. This share in a few months or a year (as the work progresses and the goal becomes closer) could be worth say 20, because in the meantime the risk that the work ends up with nothing will have decreased drastically. So who will come at a later time, risking less, will have to pay double or take half the shares, and so on. Also, and this is an important thing for me, he will not have contributed on this historical adventure, and the advent of a new era where energy is clean and plentiful. I hope that the picture is now clearer. However, all these things we will be more clearly explained on a few documents we're currently preparing. We, I'm saying this again and then I'm out, we do not want to sell you anything, we do not want to cheat you. This is only about actively participating in the financing and completion of the research and development of a product that can improve our lives. Those who believe in it, can participate; those who prefer purchasing a black box that MAYBE works... do that IF you can. Roy Roy Virgilio was gracious enough to provide more answers and clarifications in an additional post: http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-piantelli-7.html#post119337412 @ Shirakawa: If Piantelli convinced the scientific community (which, unfortunately, made recently a petition against piezonuclear reactions) that LENR are a reality, then investments would not be a problem anymore... This is the path prof. Piantelli is going through lately. There are good chances that soon there will be fundamental data which could break down the brickwall once and for all (hopefully). If this finding is confirmed (the prof is ultra precise in these matters and the experiment will be repeated until there is no doubt that the result is not an artifact) well, then the reaction will no longer be denied by anyone. @ Shirakawa: you're reporting for example, that the Professor could take up to a year to collect the remaining funds needed for research Not really... in the sense that the fundraising is to achieve only 1% of the shares that Metalenergy is estimated being worth TODAY, which is around one million euros. The other stocks are traded to medium-large companies or investors of a certain level. This is just to make sure that everybody can contribute with something, and have in the future (but not in 10 years!) a fair profit. And this without having to ruin your life other than maybe giving up to 10 lottery tickets and investing just 100 euros for a certainly more noble cause. @ Maxwell61: there must at least be some cells that produce more than they consume must be, otherwise I suppose there would be no reason to do research [Yes,] There are such cells. @ Maxwell61: I think that here we are just asking to have 2 numbers: input power and output power ... and if making these measurements are part of the future research after the fundrasing or if it will be
Re: [Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
Thanks for the update. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
It looks like they are hitting a dead end like Black Light... 2012/6/14 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com On 2012-06-13 23:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello Group, I asked Roy Virgilio to provide some clarifications on certain passages of his previous forum post, managing to obtain some more information. I will translate his new message below (thanks again Google Translate): http://www.energeticambiente.**it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/** 14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-**piantelli-7.html#post119337343http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-piantelli-7.html#post119337343 Here I see there's need to clarify a point. Piantelli NOT HAVE A READY PRODUCT yet. He does not have a box to sell. He is not Rossi. Please change your point of view. The fundraising is done to finance the CONSTRUCTION of the prototype. We are in the RESEARCH phase. We do not sell anything. This is about betting, risking. Metalenergy, a subsidiary of Nichenergy (a company directly created by Piantelli and and a few other close associates), is the company which has the European exclusive for the sale of FUTURE generators between 101 watts and 7 kW. Or sale of licenses. Nichenergy is only the company, closed to everybody, which manages the laboratory and the development of the [Ni-H] discovery. It does the research. Once this research will have borne fruit, the enjoyment of these will come through Metalenergy. Who is in Metalenergy will at that point enjoy direct earnings and the royalties derived from the sale of products throughout Europe. CURRENTLY who enters Metalenergy, actually finances Nichenergy, allowing it to complete the research and development. To summarize, the fundraiser we're going to open soon will be to fund the research and development of a prototype, and if all goes well, only then it will be possible to see the results deriving from the sale of products that DEPEND on research today. So, who wants to put some money on this, will have to consider it almost as a donation or, more realistically, as a medium / high risk investment. But there is this to consider: the association will purchase a share of Metalenergy worth today, say, 10 euros. This share in a few months or a year (as the work progresses and the goal becomes closer) could be worth say 20, because in the meantime the risk that the work ends up with nothing will have decreased drastically. So who will come at a later time, risking less, will have to pay double or take half the shares, and so on. Also, and this is an important thing for me, he will not have contributed on this historical adventure, and the advent of a new era where energy is clean and plentiful. I hope that the picture is now clearer. However, all these things we will be more clearly explained on a few documents we're currently preparing. We, I'm saying this again and then I'm out, we do not want to sell you anything, we do not want to cheat you. This is only about actively participating in the financing and completion of the research and development of a product that can improve our lives. Those who believe in it, can participate; those who prefer purchasing a black box that MAYBE works... do that IF you can. Roy Roy Virgilio was gracious enough to provide more answers and clarifications in an additional post: http://www.energeticambiente.**it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/** 14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-**piantelli-7.html#post119337412http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-piantelli-7.html#post119337412 @ Shirakawa: If Piantelli convinced the scientific community (which, unfortunately, made recently a petition against piezonuclear reactions) that LENR are a reality, then investments would not be a problem anymore... This is the path prof. Piantelli is going through lately. There are good chances that soon there will be fundamental data which could break down the brickwall once and for all (hopefully). If this finding is confirmed (the prof is ultra precise in these matters and the experiment will be repeated until there is no doubt that the result is not an artifact) well, then the reaction will no longer be denied by anyone. @ Shirakawa: you're reporting for example, that the Professor could take up to a year to collect the remaining funds needed for research Not really... in the sense that the fundraising is to achieve only 1% of the shares that Metalenergy is estimated being worth TODAY, which is around one million euros. The other stocks are traded to medium-large companies or investors of a certain level. This is just to make sure that everybody can contribute with something, and have in the future (but not in 10 years!) a fair profit. And this without having to ruin your life other than maybe giving up to 10 lottery tickets and investing just 100 euros for a certainly more noble cause. @ Maxwell61: there
[Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
Hello Group, News about Francesco Piantelli from Roy Virgilio of Energeticambiente.it have been posted here, today: http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-piantelli-7.html#post119337230 I will hand translate (with the help of Google Translate) his post below for clarity. Please forgive me any inaccuracy: Hello everybody, After a long silence, I bring good news. Yesterday I went to Piantelli's laboratory and I had the chance to verify [his] work progress. I can't talk you about it right now, but the visit, among other things, unfreezed the old Supporters' Trust project. In fact, a fund raising to support prof. Piantelli's LENR project will start soon. The fund raising will be managed by an association which will collect memberships of various fees (something like 100 - 200 - 300 - 500 - 1000 Euro). These fees will add up until a total amount of 5 to 10 Euro will be achieved, in order to acquire a share of the Metalenergy company which holds an exclusive European license on generators ranging from 101 W to 7 kW. The funds will be directly used to fund the laboratory for the development of said generators (already in development) and will be then rewarded with royalties deriving from the sale of the generators themselves or from the licenses granted over the entire European territory. As soon as the bureaucratic-organizational aspect will be ready, it will become possible to deposit shares. I will talk about cold fusion and this particular project on Saturday, June 16th in Viterbo during the Energiainmovimento event from 15:30 to 16:30. You can download the program here: http://www.energeticambiente.it/fiere-conferenze-e-raduni/14748688-evento-energia-movimento-viterbo.html Full speed ahead! Roy Note: for everybody's convenience, I uploaded the file here: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6id5Hf-xMWOUWVkVXAxV1FKc0E Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
On 2012-06-13 23:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote: http://www.energeticambiente.it/fiere-conferenze-e-raduni/14748688-evento-energia-movimento-viterbo.html It turns out that this event has got an official website. It appears to be focused mainly on renewable energy. Here it is: http://www.energiainmovimento.net/ Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
Does that mean he has generators already working with Rossi's power level and need the money to finish development? 2012/6/13 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com Hello Group, News about Francesco Piantelli from Roy Virgilio of Energeticambiente.it have been posted here, today: http://www.energeticambiente.**it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/** 14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-**piantelli-7.html#post119337230http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-piantelli-7.html#post119337230 I will hand translate (with the help of Google Translate) his post below for clarity. Please forgive me any inaccuracy: Hello everybody, After a long silence, I bring good news. Yesterday I went to Piantelli's laboratory and I had the chance to verify [his] work progress. I can't talk you about it right now, but the visit, among other things, unfreezed the old Supporters' Trust project. In fact, a fund raising to support prof. Piantelli's LENR project will start soon. The fund raising will be managed by an association which will collect memberships of various fees (something like 100 - 200 - 300 - 500 - 1000 Euro). These fees will add up until a total amount of 5 to 10 Euro will be achieved, in order to acquire a share of the Metalenergy company which holds an exclusive European license on generators ranging from 101 W to 7 kW. The funds will be directly used to fund the laboratory for the development of said generators (already in development) and will be then rewarded with royalties deriving from the sale of the generators themselves or from the licenses granted over the entire European territory. As soon as the bureaucratic-organizational aspect will be ready, it will become possible to deposit shares. I will talk about cold fusion and this particular project on Saturday, June 16th in Viterbo during the Energiainmovimento event from 15:30 to 16:30. You can download the program here: http://www.energeticambiente.**it/fiere-conferenze-e-raduni/** 14748688-evento-energia-**movimento-viterbo.htmlhttp://www.energeticambiente.it/fiere-conferenze-e-raduni/14748688-evento-energia-movimento-viterbo.html Full speed ahead! Roy Note: for everybody's convenience, I uploaded the file here: https://docs.google.com/open?**id=0B6id5Hf-**xMWOUWVkVXAxV1FKc0Ehttps://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6id5Hf-xMWOUWVkVXAxV1FKc0E Cheers, S.A. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
The potential return on a €100 is worth the risk. T
Re: [Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
On 2012-06-13 23:49, Daniel Rocha wrote: Does that mean he has generators already working with Rossi's power level and need the money to finish development? So it would seem, by reading between the lines. Roy Virgilio however explicitly states he can't tell more details at the moment. I guess we have to wait. By the way, rather than generators [...] already in development I should have written already in production; on a second thought I think this is what Roy Virgilio actually intended to mean in his post. This would make his announcement even more interesting. However, If I have to be honest, I can't help but feel, taking into account what was said during the Atom Unexplored conference last May by an associate of prof. Piantelli, that this might be a bluff (whether partial or complete, I don't know) to put pressure on Andrea Rossi. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
On 2012-06-14 00:02, Akira Shirakawa wrote: However, If I have to be honest, I can't help but feel, taking into account what was said during the Atom Unexplored conference last May by an associate of prof. Piantelli, that this might be a bluff (whether partial or complete, I don't know) to put pressure on Andrea Rossi. To clarify, I'm not implying that Roy Virgilio is lying, but that he might have been provided with misleading information, as to indirectly bait Rossi or put pressure on him as I've written previously. Why am I writing this? For example, during the Atom Unexplored conference I previously mentioned, Valerio Ciampoli, an executive of Nichenergy, the company set to develop Piantelli's Ni-H LENR technology, essentially lamented that excessively large expectations from the general public and announcements from individuals/entities who aren't following proper scientific methods and aren't to be trusted (read: Rossi) are putting a great deal of pressure on them. No new data or information worth of particular attention was disclosed either. To me, he gave the impression that Piantelli's technology is still in a very early phase. You can watch the videos from that conference and judge for yourself: Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKvJspY0msU Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Orja48N83c So, now it sounds like they are ready to manufacture (or actually are manufacturing? That's unclear) devices based on this technology, ranging from 100 watts to 7 kilowatts? Reportedly soon to be open to accept money for a supporter's trust? Without any detail on what their technology is about, time-to-market, and of course open plans for third party validation? It could just be that I'm impatient for more information, but all of this sounds very odd, unprofessional from a business point of view and also not very scientific. Roy Virgilio isn't Piantelli's official spokesperson (I know he just wants to tell people as much information as he can), but fact is it's like he's being treated like one (and I doubt Piantelli's group isn't aware of the impact that LENR-related news can have on the blogosphere. By mentioning expectations from the general public, Ciampoli essentially admitted they do). I guess the key to understanding what's really going on is to... wait and see, as always. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Some Piantelli news from Roy Virgilio
Piantelli and Rossi are indeed rivals. I think this may be a case of Piantelli responding to Rossi, rather than the other way around. It is a welcome development whatever the cause may be. - Jed
