Re: [Vo]:How to fake a large-scale demonstration
I believe that a 1MW system is not the way for Rossi to go. I do not understand the rational. What would you do with 1MW composed of 100 units? Again, several independent 1 to 10 KW system are more realistic. They could easily be placed on a glass table or something like that or be free to move from location to location. Even in the 10 to 100 kW range a system that could say - move a car would be more believable by the public and prove no hidden wires.. (steam dune buggy--- he said smiling) I would suggest that 2 or 3 separate 1-10kW systems to be tested by others would be more convincing than a un examinable 1MW system with no controls or ways to isolate it. Again I am not he, but I would opt for several small units to prove reproducibility, allow for free examination to show no faking, allow for use of other's measurement systems to show no mistaken numbers, and run for extended times to show unique reactions. But then I think he is busy on his own direction (tunnel vision) and will not be reading these blogs. D2 If I had lots of money and time I think I would find it easier to fake a large demonstration than a 10 kW one. People here and elsewhere have discussed elaborate methods of faking the 10 kW demonstration, such as hiding wires, replacing the wires in the walls to allow more electric power input, or using a fluid that looks like water but is not. If you had hundreds of thousands of dollars and months to prepare, you might be able to arrange this sort of thing. But my point is that with a small-scale device, it is much easier to catch such tricks. An outside observer can stop by Radio Shack and purchase a few tools such as the Kill A Watt meter, a thermistor and an ordinary bucket to measure all of the key parameters. The machine is not bolted to the floor. It is free standing on a piece of wood. So there is no way to hide wires going through the table legs. I am NOT suggesting that Rossi is planning to do any of the above. I am pointing out how a suspicious person would view a test of this nature. I think is a given that if a 1 MW test is reported many people in the mass media and on the Internet will claim that something like what I described here must have occurred. They will not be convinced. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:How to fake a large-scale demonstration
Dennis wrote: Again I am not he, but I would opt for several small units to prove reproducibility, It should be obvious by now, and Rossi has stated it many times... his opinion on how to convince anyone, be they political or scientific or the press, is to build and install a decent size plant. CF researchers have been trying the scientific route for 22 years, and barely making any headway! Trying to convince the scientific mainstream or the press is a waste of time, as far as he's concerned... you and most on this list have an open mind and could be convinced with just a few specific tests... but we are not the ones who need to be convinced to blow this thing wide open. The mainstream has such a jaded view of anything related to CF, that it will take a (1MW) sledgehammer to convince them. Given the history of CF and the way the mainstream deals with major breakthroughs, I think his sledgehammer should do an adequate job... and, as a backup, he is continuing with the scientific testing at the U of B. No, I think he's thought this thru quite well... -Mark
Re: [Vo]:How to fake a large-scale demonstration
Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net wrote: It should be obvious by now, and Rossi has stated it many times... his opinion on how to convince anyone, be they political or scientific or the press, is to build and install a decent size plant. That's right. Rossi has often said this, and I see no reason to doubt he means it. CF researchers have been trying the scientific route for 22 years, and barely making any headway! Well, if they could have done something like this, the controversy would have ended. Only the most obtuse scientist would claim there might be a problem with the 15 kW test. The mainstream has such a jaded view of anything related to CF, that it will take a (1MW) sledgehammer to convince them. Given the history of CF and the way the mainstream deals with major breakthroughs, I think his sledgehammer should do an adequate job... and, as a backup, he is continuing with the scientific testing at the U of B. No, I think he's thought this thru quite well... I think he does intend to use the 1 MW reactor as a sledgehammer, and he has thought it through. If he succeeds, no one will be more delighted and relieved than me. But I fear he may not succeed, for the reasons I outlined here; i.e., it would take only a couple of 2 pipes to fake this demonstration, and the skeptics and mass media will dismiss it for that reason. I hope I am wrong. Based on the history of cold fusion, I fear that I am right. Over the last year I have often told Rossi and his associates that I think a 1 to 10 kW scale demonstration would achieve their goals more effectively, cheaper and faster, for the reasons I laid out here. They disagree. They have been polite, but it is clear they are not interested in my opinion. I do not know if they follow this discussion group or the various blogs, but I am sure they will not be influenced by them. In case it turns out I'm right, and Rossi's strategy misfires, I hope that Brian Ahern or Dennis Cravens can demonstrate an Ni-H system that produces somewhere between 100 Watts and 1000 W. That would independently establish the validity of these claims. It might pry open more funding from the scientific establishment so that other people can make efforts to independently replicate Rossi and explore this technique. I wish Rossi all success, and I think he deserves all the money and fame imaginable, but I hate to see such vitally important technology in the hands of only one person, who is working on it in obscurity, with far less money and manpower than the job calls for. It would be best for everyone if Rossi could get a patent, so that other scientists could replicate. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:How to fake a large-scale demonstration
I wrote: Only the most obtuse scientist would claim there might be a problem with the 15 kW test. I mean, a problem other than the possibility it is fake, with Levi in cahoots with Rossi. I think everyone acknowledges that is possible. Aside from that, I do not think there are any valid objections left, after the Feb. 10 tests. An example of an obtuse objection is the notion that you can heat tap water at the rate of 1 L/s to 40°C, but that is not caused by 130 W of heat; it is caused by a positional flow error. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:How to fake a large-scale demonstration
Industrial tests can bring surprises, therefore Rossi will have to prepare some alternatives. He and the Defkalion people will make a sufficient number of rehearsals before going public. By the way- this website http://www.defkalion-energy.com/ is active now. Gives address, phone etc. On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I wrote: Only the most obtuse scientist would claim there might be a problem with the 15 kW test. I mean, a problem other than the possibility it is fake, with Levi in cahoots with Rossi. I think everyone acknowledges that is possible. Aside from that, I do not think there are any valid objections left, after the Feb. 10 tests. An example of an obtuse objection is the notion that you can heat tap water at the rate of 1 L/s to 40°C, but that is not caused by 130 W of heat; it is caused by a positional flow error. - Jed -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:How to fake a large-scale demonstration
Peter Gluck wrote: Industrial tests can bring surprises, therefore Rossi will have to prepare some alternatives. As far as I know, they have no intention of doing that. They are putting all of their eggs in a 1 MW basket. - Jed
