Re: [Vo]:Electron Transition Atomic Mass Change Quantified
In reply to Jürg Wyttenbach's message of Thu, 14 May 2020 01:23:28 +0200: Hi, [snip] >AFAIK the spin angular momentum of a photon is h-bar. > > >This is highly unlikely as in this case all photons should have the same >angular momentum. They do. (At least intrinsic angular momentum. Of course they can also have angular momentum relative to any point in space that depends on their position and direction of travel.) >The real question is: Is the total mass of a photon just its angular >momentum? Mass and angular momentum have different dimensions. I.e. it's like comparing apples and oranges. They are simply not the same thing. > >All EM mass needs a topological charge to constantly reproduce the >magnetic flux. The movement of a magnetic flux line is strictly angular. >Thus the only question is: How much energy is stored in the local field >of the photon? Classically people believe H/E components of a photon are >of equal size because they think that the energy oscillates between >electric and magnetic energy what simply is nonsensical. This picture >only works for a resonant electric circuit where a coil (solenoid) can >store a current and at the maximum point the potential disappears. I think you are talking about a tank circuit in which a coil and capacitor are coupled, such that energy is exchanged between coil and capacitor. Stored in the magnetic field in the coil and the electric field in the capacitor. >The vacuum is not a solenoid...and a magnetic field is only produced by a >moving charge what implies the charge must split and you would have to >explain which force should bend it back again. If you accept that photons have an electric field, then you are talking about split charges. What brings them back together is the attraction of + to -. In the classical sense, a photon is a tank circuit, with the changing electric field creating a magnetic field, and the changing magnetic field creating an electric field. At one extreme in the oscillation, all the energy is stored in the electric field, and at the other extreme, all the energy is stored in the magnetic field. When all the energy is stored in the magnetic field, the charges are no longer separate and cease to move, hence the magnetic field starts to collapse. It is the collapse of the magnetic field that drives the charges apart again, storing energy in the electric field. The total energy remains constant. Though I must admit that I find this difficult to reconcile with a rotating photon. However I have long suspected that we may need to dump the concept of electric and magnetic fields altogether, and replace them with a new pair of concepts. This is why I think you might be on the right track. We could be looking at a rotation into a fourth dimension, such that the electric and magnetic fields we see/use/imagine, are really just three dimensional projections of what's really happening.
Re: [Vo]:Electron Transition Atomic Mass Change Quantified
AFAIK the spin angular momentum of a photon is h-bar. This is highly unlikely as in this case all photons should have the same angular momentum. The real question is: Is the total mass of a photon just its angular momentum? All EM mass needs a topological charge to constantly reproduce the magnetic flux. The movement of a magnetic flux line is strictly angular. Thus the only question is: How much energy is stored in the local field of the photon? Classically people believe H/E components of a photon are of equal size because they think that the energy oscillates between electric and magnetic energy what simply is nonsensical. This picture only works for a resonant electric circuit where a coil (solenoid) can store a current and at the maximum point the potential disappears. The vacuum is not a solenoid...and a magnetic field is only produced by a moving charge what implies the charge must split and you would have to explain which force should bend it back again. Classic physics just is far to simple minded. J.W. Am 14.05.20 um 00:00 schrieb Robin: In reply to bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Wed, 13 May 2020 20:10:56 +: Hi, [snip] It is also widely considered that angular momentum (AM) is also quantized during physical system total energy transitions. Thus, if a system is deconstructed such as Andrew suggests happens when a system emits a photon, then (assuming conservation of angular momentum) the AM of each of the separate parts of the original physical system should add up to the quantized AM of the original physical system. AFAIK the spin angular momentum of a photon is h-bar. If you look at the quantum rules for permitted transitions, then you will see that the change in total angular momentum of the electron has to be at least h-bar, as this is the amount needed to create a free photon. I suspect that they are usually emitted along the axis of rotation of the particle emitting them, i.e. perpendicular to the plane of rotation of the particle, and are circularly polarized. [snip] -- Jürg Wyttenbach Bifangstr.22 8910 Affoltern a.A. 044 760 14 18 079 246 36 06
Re: [Vo]:Electron Transition Atomic Mass Change Quantified
In reply to bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Wed, 13 May 2020 20:10:56 +: Hi, [snip] >It is also widely considered that angular momentum (AM) is also quantized >during physical system total energy transitions. Thus, if a system is >deconstructed such as Andrew suggests happens when a system emits a photon, >then (assuming conservation of angular momentum) the AM of each of the >separate parts of the original physical system should add up to the quantized >AM of the original physical system. AFAIK the spin angular momentum of a photon is h-bar. If you look at the quantum rules for permitted transitions, then you will see that the change in total angular momentum of the electron has to be at least h-bar, as this is the amount needed to create a free photon. I suspect that they are usually emitted along the axis of rotation of the particle emitting them, i.e. perpendicular to the plane of rotation of the particle, and are circularly polarized. [snip]
RE: [Vo]:Electron Transition Atomic Mass Change Quantified
It is also widely considered that angular momentum (AM) is also quantized during physical system total energy transitions. Thus, if a system is deconstructed such as Andrew suggests happens when a system emits a photon, then (assuming conservation of angular momentum) the AM of each of the separate parts of the original physical system should add up to the quantized AM of the original physical system. To deduce knowledge of the photon’s AM, one must tightly control the direction of the emitted photon, assuming an uncertainty (HU) applies to the measurement of the photon’s AM with direction being a parameter of the pertinent uncertainty. However, with good control of atomic and/or nuclear systems’ emitted photons, individual physical system AM status should be possible to determine to an accuracy of 1 quanta of AM. An induced magnetic “B” field on the original physical system may also change the emitted photon’s AM in discrete quanta of AM. Resonant magnetic B fields, as are produced by NMR machines, may allow manipulation of the AM of a system being studied. Bob Cook From: Andrew Meulenberg<mailto:mules...@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:42 AM To: VORTEX<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electron Transition Atomic Mass Change Quantified Terry, Thank you for the link. It is obvious that, if an excited atom emits a photon, it will become lighter. The ground state is lighter than an excited state. This new technique might somehow be able to distinguish the mass-loss to the nucleus alone rather than to the atom (ion) as a whole. Such an ability could provide strong evidence for cold fusion mechanisms via deep-orbit electrons. Andrew On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:33 PM Terry Blanton mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>> wrote: A new door to the quantum world has been opened: When an atom absorbs or releases energy via the quantum leap of an electron, it becomes heavier or lighter. This can be explained by Einstein's theory of relativity (E = mc2). However, the effect is minuscule for a single atom. Nevertheless, the team of Klaus Blaum and Sergey Eliseev at the Max Planck Institute for Nuclear Physics has successfully measured this infinitesimal change in the mass of individual atoms for the first time. In order to achieve this, they used the ultra-precise Pentatrap atomic balance at the Institute in Heidelberg. The team discovered a previously unobserved quantum state in rhenium, which could be interesting for future atomic clocks. Above all, this extremely sensitive atomic balance enables a better understanding of the complex quantum world of heavy atoms. https://phys.org/news/2020-05-successfully-infinitesimal-mass-individual-atoms.html
Re: [Vo]:Electron Transition Atomic Mass Change Quantified
Terry, Thank you for the link. It is obvious that, if an excited atom emits a photon, it will become lighter. The ground state is lighter than an excited state. This new technique might somehow be able to distinguish the mass-loss to the nucleus alone rather than to the atom (ion) as a whole. Such an ability could provide strong evidence for cold fusion mechanisms via deep-orbit electrons. Andrew On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:33 PM Terry Blanton wrote: > A new door to the quantum world has been opened: When an atom absorbs or > releases energy via the quantum leap of an electron, it becomes heavier or > lighter. This can be explained by Einstein's theory of relativity (E = > mc2). However, the effect is minuscule for a single atom. Nevertheless, the > team of Klaus Blaum and Sergey Eliseev at the Max Planck Institute for > Nuclear Physics has successfully measured this infinitesimal change in the > mass of individual atoms for the first time. In order to achieve this, they > used the ultra-precise Pentatrap atomic balance at the Institute in > Heidelberg. The team discovered a previously unobserved quantum state in > rhenium, which could be interesting for future atomic clocks. Above all, > this extremely sensitive atomic balance enables a better understanding of > the complex quantum world of heavy atoms. > > > https://phys.org/news/2020-05-successfully-infinitesimal-mass-individual-atoms.html > >
Re: [Vo]:Electron Transition Atomic Mass Change Quantified
It's not Einsteins law it's Plank law combined with Poincarés Mass EM mass energy relation. See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Poincaré#Mass–energy_relation The formula E=MC^2 has first been found by Poincaré! J.W. Am 09.05.20 um 19:33 schrieb Terry Blanton: A new door to the quantum world has been opened: When an atom absorbs or releases energy via the quantum leap of an electron, it becomes heavier or lighter. This can be explained by Einstein's theory of relativity (E = mc2). However, the effect is minuscule for a single atom. Nevertheless, the team of Klaus Blaum and Sergey Eliseev at the Max Planck Institute for Nuclear Physics has successfully measured this infinitesimal change in the mass of individual atoms for the first time. In order to achieve this, they used the ultra-precise Pentatrap atomic balance at the Institute in Heidelberg. The team discovered a previously unobserved quantum state in rhenium, which could be interesting for future atomic clocks. Above all, this extremely sensitive atomic balance enables a better understanding of the complex quantum world of heavy atoms. https://phys.org/news/2020-05-successfully-infinitesimal-mass-individual-atoms.html -- Jürg Wyttenbach Bifangstr.22 8910 Affoltern a.A. 044 760 14 18 079 246 36 06
Re: [Vo]:Electron Transition Atomic Mass Change Quantified
Interesting. Mass-energy change at the atomic scale is usually ignored by chemists and physicists because it is too small measure. Now that such a small change can be measured perhaps it will lead to the discovery/recognition of novel phenomena at the interface of chemical and nuclear physics. Harry On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 1:33 PM Terry Blanton wrote: > A new door to the quantum world has been opened: When an atom absorbs or > releases energy via the quantum leap of an electron, it becomes heavier or > lighter. This can be explained by Einstein's theory of relativity (E = > mc2). However, the effect is minuscule for a single atom. Nevertheless, the > team of Klaus Blaum and Sergey Eliseev at the Max Planck Institute for > Nuclear Physics has successfully measured this infinitesimal change in the > mass of individual atoms for the first time. In order to achieve this, they > used the ultra-precise Pentatrap atomic balance at the Institute in > Heidelberg. The team discovered a previously unobserved quantum state in > rhenium, which could be interesting for future atomic clocks. Above all, > this extremely sensitive atomic balance enables a better understanding of > the complex quantum world of heavy atoms. > > > https://phys.org/news/2020-05-successfully-infinitesimal-mass-individual-atoms.html > >
