Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread ChemE Stewart
So in a way you are saying "Due to the sudden increase in entropy
surrounding hurricane Irma and the arrow of time (nature tends toward an
increase in entropy), Florida's new power grid became old really fast."

Just checking to see how my new model fits, seems OK so far.

Or another way "Hurricane Irma broke chiral symmetry and Florida's power
grid"

The real test will be to see how quickly power is restored, hurricane Wilma
took 3 weeks.  I bet it will be longer.







On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:00 PM Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> There has already been an interesting article published about the Florida
> power company problems. This article says there is widespread damage
> despite the fact that Florida Power & Light has one of the most
> storm-resistant and modern grids:
>
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/floridas-largest-utility-west-floridas-electrical-grid-will-need-a-wholesale-rebuild/539328/
>
>
> QUOTES:
>
> More Than 10 Million People Lost Power in Florida
>
> Thanks to Hurricane Irma, the southwest of the state’s electrical grid
> will need a “wholesale rebuild.”
>
> Hurricane Irma slammed the west coast of Florida on Sunday, making
> landfall first in the Keys and then at Marco Island, 15 miles south of
> Naples. Since then, it’s been making its way northward, visiting
> destruction on the state as it weakens.
>
> As the storm progressed through Florida, it knocked out the lights all
> over the state. In a press conference Monday morning, Eric Silagy, the
> president of the state’s largest electric utility, Florida Power and Light,
> estimated that more than half the state is without power. That’s more than
> 10 million people, which dwarfs the number who lost electricity during
> Hurricane Sandy, which had been the record holder for hurricane-related
> power problems with 6.2 million affected.
>
>
> [AND YET --]
>
> It was standing with FPL’s CEO that President Obama announced $3.4 billion
> in smart-grid grants through the Department of Energy as part of the
> stimulus package, and when the utility finished its smart-grid installation
> in 2013, it was lauded as smart-grid technology’s coming-of-age moment.
>
> FPL’s grid was about the best the country could have brought to the
> table.All the investment appeared to pay off last year during hurricanes
> Hermine and Matthew. All the fancy new gear prevented some outages and
> helped the utility get things back running quickly.The Edison Electric
> Institute, a utility-industry trade group, gave FPL two awards earlier this
> year for "Emergency Recovery" and "Emergency Assistance" because of its
> performance during the 2016 hurricanes.
>
> In other words, FPL’s grid was about the best the country could have
> brought to the table. And now, apparently, Irma has laid waste to at least
> a large chunk of that system. . . .
>
>


Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
There has already been an interesting article published about the Florida
power company problems. This article says there is widespread damage
despite the fact that Florida Power & Light has one of the most
storm-resistant and modern grids:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/floridas-largest-utility-west-floridas-electrical-grid-will-need-a-wholesale-rebuild/539328/


QUOTES:

More Than 10 Million People Lost Power in Florida

Thanks to Hurricane Irma, the southwest of the state’s electrical grid will
need a “wholesale rebuild.”

Hurricane Irma slammed the west coast of Florida on Sunday, making landfall
first in the Keys and then at Marco Island, 15 miles south of Naples. Since
then, it’s been making its way northward, visiting destruction on the state
as it weakens.

As the storm progressed through Florida, it knocked out the lights all over
the state. In a press conference Monday morning, Eric Silagy, the president
of the state’s largest electric utility, Florida Power and Light, estimated
that more than half the state is without power. That’s more than 10 million
people, which dwarfs the number who lost electricity during Hurricane
Sandy, which had been the record holder for hurricane-related power
problems with 6.2 million affected.


[AND YET --]

It was standing with FPL’s CEO that President Obama announced $3.4 billion
in smart-grid grants through the Department of Energy as part of the
stimulus package, and when the utility finished its smart-grid installation
in 2013, it was lauded as smart-grid technology’s coming-of-age moment.

FPL’s grid was about the best the country could have brought to the
table.All the investment appeared to pay off last year during hurricanes
Hermine and Matthew. All the fancy new gear prevented some outages and
helped the utility get things back running quickly.The Edison Electric
Institute, a utility-industry trade group, gave FPL two awards earlier this
year for "Emergency Recovery" and "Emergency Assistance" because of its
performance during the 2016 hurricanes.

In other words, FPL’s grid was about the best the country could have
brought to the table. And now, apparently, Irma has laid waste to at least
a large chunk of that system. . . .


Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
ChemE Stewart  wrote:

Still on in the Northern Atlanta burbs...
>

Back on here. The power companies seem to be keeping up. The number of
customers without power is holding at 500,000 to 600,000.

If we did not have this method of distributing electricity, I doubt we
would build it now. It is a leftover from the 19th century.

- Jed


Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread ChemE Stewart
Sudden increase in entropy

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/pictures/110523-joplin-missouri-tornado-science-nation-weather-midwest/

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 12:36 PM ChemE Stewart  wrote:

> Still on in the Northern Atlanta burbs...
>
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 12:25 PM Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> There is hardly any wind but the power is already off at my house, as of
>> 12 p.m.
>>
>> Okay, now the wind is beginning to pick up.
>>
>> CNN reports that 72% of Miami, FL is without power.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>


Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread ChemE Stewart
Still on in the Northern Atlanta burbs...

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 12:25 PM Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> There is hardly any wind but the power is already off at my house, as of
> 12 p.m.
>
> Okay, now the wind is beginning to pick up.
>
> CNN reports that 72% of Miami, FL is without power.
>
> - Jed
>
>


Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread ChemE Stewart
Exactly why I am saying we are missing the true source of energy of that
storm, not just air and water vapor, hot and cold.  Lots of energy in the
vacuum to pull from

A better model is a vacuum manifold that is losing symmetry as it decays to
a new, lower vacuum state and reading that energy into the surroundings
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_manifold

Just in time universal inflation sort of thing...

One Joplin, MO tornado released up to 600 Hiroshima bombs in 30 minutes...
WTF?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328834/Oklahoma-tornado-600-TIMES-powerful-Hiroshima-atomic-bomb.html

The vacuum is unstable by design

Our power distribution system still sucks though



On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:59 AM JonesBeene  wrote:

>
>
> *From: *ChemE Stewart 
>
>
>
> We can build nuclear bombs but can't keep the lights on when a storm moves
> through.
>
> --
>
>
>
> Yeah… but to put that failure into perspective, mother-nature builds her
> own bombs and blasted us with a preemptive strike.
>
>
>
> Irma had the power of a 60 megaton nuke when it came ashore, which is the
> equivalent of many dozens of Hiroshima-equivalent weapons.
>


Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
There is hardly any wind but the power is already off at my house, as of 12
p.m.

Okay, now the wind is beginning to pick up.

CNN reports that 72% of Miami, FL is without power.

- Jed


RE: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread JonesBeene

From: ChemE Stewart

We can build nuclear bombs but can't keep the lights on when a storm moves 
through.
--

Yeah… but to put that failure into perspective, mother-nature builds her own 
bombs and blasted us with a preemptive strike.

Irma had the power of a 60 megaton nuke when it came ashore, which is the 
equivalent of many dozens of Hiroshima-equivalent weapons.


Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
ChemE Stewart  wrote:

We can build nuclear bombs . . .
>

Here in Georgia we build nuclear plants, but they keep ending up costing
twice as much as originally estimated ($14 to $29 billion), and taking 6 or
8 years longer than planned.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toshiba-accounting-westinghouse-bankr/group-says-georgia-nuclear-plant-costs-rise-to-29-billion-idUSKBN1962YH

Still, I am in favor of finishing the plant. It is better than coal plants,
and probably better than natural gas. Georgia does not have significant
wind resources, and solar is still probably more expensive than a nuke.

- Jed


Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
I wrote:


> I wish I had a 4 kW inverter but I don't think you can attach that to an
> ordinary car battery.
>

And definitely too much for the Prius battery, which is only rated 12 V *
150 A = 1.8 kW. Not as much as a regular car traction battery. A Prius
mechanic told me he thought the 2 kW inverter shouldn't be a problem.

I checked the power drawn by the refrigerator and lights, and the pump.
These things use remarkable low power:

Fridge: 6.5 A = 780 W
Pump: 2.2 A = 264 W
LED lights = God has to pay *you*

The pump and fridge should both be able to run, but I have seen that
start-up power can be much higher than sustained power. With the inverter
attached to my Geo Metro ordinary car battery, the inverter circuit breaker
cuts off when I try to run a microwave, even though that is only rated at
1.2 kW. (That's what it says on the back.)

With a refrigerator, the trick is to keep the door closed and run it for 10
minutes every hour.

A 2 kW inverter costs about $120. It is the cheapest emergency power you
can get. Much cheaper than a gasoline generator. I have used this 2 or 3
times. It has paid for itself already by keeping the food in the fridge
from spoiling.

- Jed


Re: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread ChemE Stewart
We can build nuclear bombs but can't keep the lights on when a storm moves
through.

Sad

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:15 AM Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Once again a storm shows the weakness of modern energy systems. On an
> ordinary day in Georgia, hundreds of customers are without power because of
> accidents. At this moment, 258,727 customers are without power because of
> the hurricane, and it hasn't even hit the state yet. See:
>
> http://outagemap.georgiapower.com/external/default.html#
>
> Small cold fusion generators would eliminate this problem. The generators
> themselves would fail from time to time, but probably not any more often
> than refrigerators are HVAC equipment does. In my experience, that happens
> less often than power failures lasting 1 hour or longer.
>
> I am ready for a power failure. I now have a 2 kW inverter which I attach
> to the starter battery in a Prius. That is located inside, under the deck,
> where the spare tire is kept, so it stays dry in the rain. I can then leave
> the motor on. It only runs when the battery drains. 2 kW is enough to run a
> modern refrigerator and lights. Or a pump to drain water under the house,
> but I don't think I can run both at the same time. I wish I had a 4 kW
> inverter but I don't think you can attach that to an ordinary car battery.
>
> - Jed
>
>


RE: [Vo]:The lights are going out all over Georgia . . .

2017-09-11 Thread JonesBeene
It makes sense that in the near future, the electronics for all plug-ins and 
hybrids be redesigned to work both ways seamlessly – to power the house if 
needed using the same cable that provides battery charge. This makes the most 
sense with fuel cells and Honda already has a product for this in the pipeline.

https://evobsession.com/use-your-electric-car-to-power-your-home-with-honda-power-exporter/

It will provide about 4 times more power for a week, compared to your setup … 
so in places like Texas you could probably run the air conditioner as well as 
appliances. 

One would need about 5 of them to power Al Gore’s mansion, however… so there 
are limits.

From: Jed Rothwell

I am ready for a power failure. I now have a 2 kW inverter which I attach to 
the starter battery in a Prius. That is located inside, under the deck, where 
the spare tire is kept, so it stays dry in the rain. I can then leave the motor 
on. It only runs when the battery drains. 2 kW is enough to run a modern 
refrigerator and lights. Or a pump to drain water under the house, but I don't 
think I can run both at the same time. I wish I had a 4 kW inverter but I don't 
think you can attach that to an ordinary car battery.

- Jed