[vos-d] vos-s5.3

2009-02-17 Thread Reed Hedges
Attached is a patch that 1. adds a file called BUILD.txt that starts to give some instructions on how to build vos, including a list of dependencies you can install if you don'nt want the scons script to try downloading and building stuff. 2. links to libpthread when testing crypto++

[vos-d] How databases hurt scalability

2008-10-04 Thread Reed Hedges
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pulpit_20081003_005424.html ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d

[vos-d] Sorry, need another test message

2008-08-23 Thread Reed Hedges
Just want to make sure the list still works after changing something... Reed -- http://interreality.org/~reed ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d

Re: [vos-d] Rough graphs of #vos channel activity

2008-08-08 Thread Reed Hedges
Oops, just noticed that the days of the week are out of order. Should fix that I guess. But there's an interesting upward trend toward the middle of the week, then it goes down to drop off on Saturday. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org

Re: [vos-d] babies

2008-07-31 Thread Reed Hedges
Interesting coincidence! Congratulations to you too! Reed Braden McDaniel wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 11:51 -0400, Reed Hedges wrote: I have a new top priority project that must compete with VOS -- Zephan Isaac was born on Friday at 7:30 PM! Though so far he's been great and we're well

[vos-d] Web Site

2008-06-30 Thread Reed Hedges
Am thinking of switching over to the new website I was working on earlier (http://interreality.org:4088), but without the half-assed background image. Would be nice to create a nicer one but don't have time. I'll also do an editing and clarity pass to try to improve whatever wording I can, and

Re: [vos-d] Web Site

2008-06-30 Thread Reed Hedges
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 01:47:35PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote: Am thinking of switching over to the new website I was working on earlier (http://interreality.org:4088), but without the half-assed Go to http://interreality.org:4088/home to see

Re: [vos-d] s5 properties proposal

2008-05-13 Thread Reed Hedges
We talked a bit on IRC but wanted to respond here too. I think it can be summarized briefly like this, I think: In S4, Vobjects had an ordered list of named child links to other Vobjects, one type of which was a Property. In the proposal, Vobjects have an unordered set of named properties,

[vos-d] Speed Racer movie - interviews with the VFX directors

2008-05-06 Thread Reed Hedges
http://www.vrmag.org/speedracer/ When they say VR, at least in the John Gaeta interview, I think they are really referring to panoramic images projected on the inside of a sphere, and you view it from the center and rotate to view different parts of the image. The interview starts down a

Re: [vos-d] s5 vobject properties

2008-04-25 Thread Reed Hedges
I'm worried about introducing yet more complexity into S5. You know that this is a big concern of mine. What is the exact overhead for having entries in the child list for embedded properties? You need a contextual name, and you need the object. The list itself stores the position value. The

Re: [vos-d] s5 vobject properties

2008-04-24 Thread Reed Hedges
In other words, I sort of imagined it like this: class Entity { handleMessage(); setEntity* parents; string url; } class Link { string cname; int pos; Entity *child; Entity *parent; } class Vobject : Entity { listLink children; vectorEmbeddedProperty embeddedProperties;

[vos-d] More on the web site

2008-04-03 Thread Reed Hedges
I've started putting together a new website in (s4) hypervos at http://interreality.org:4088/home. It's simplified from the current site, and has less info. As we update things like documentation for S5 and make releases, we can expand the site. I make a wiki page (DraftDocs) that links to

Re: [vos-d] More new S5 classes/concepts

2008-03-03 Thread Reed Hedges
I was under the impression that, for the most part, you are always going to be working through Wrapper objects. Is this true? I still think it would be easier for people to use VOS if the wrapper classes had plain names, and the thing being wrapped had the funny name. E.g. DataType

Re: [vos-d] s5 hypervos (mod_vos)

2008-03-01 Thread Reed Hedges
Lalo Martins wrote: Also spracht Reed Hedges (Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:23:53 -0500): On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:13:14PM +, Lalo Martins wrote: hypervos is already alive and kicking in the form of an Apache mod_vos; Is the src/app/mod_vos directory in bzr current? Reed

Re: [vos-d] s5 hypervos (mod_vos)

2008-03-01 Thread Reed Hedges
Reed Hedges wrote: Lalo Martins wrote: Also spracht Reed Hedges (Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:23:53 -0500): On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:13:14PM +, Lalo Martins wrote: hypervos is already alive and kicking in the form of an Apache mod_vos; Is the src/app/mod_vos directory in bzr current? I'd like

Re: [vos-d] More new S5 classes/concepts

2008-03-01 Thread Reed Hedges
What is the Extension Manager? (WHat's an ExtensionManagerWrapper?) What is a Service Manager (site.getServiceManager)? ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d

[vos-d] Fwd: C++0x developments

2008-02-24 Thread Reed Hedges
Original Message Subject:[liblf-dev] C++0x developments Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:47:36 -0500 From: Bjorn Roche [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey all, I just wanted to update everyone on the latest developments in

Re: [vos-d] Website design ideas

2008-02-19 Thread Reed Hedges
Reed Hedges wrote: Here are two ideas I had for a new website design. Both are rough sketches. \ 2. http://interreality.org/~reed/tmp/iro/index2.html I made a few small changes to this one, trying a different background image (the branches one is just to show the concept, it's a terrible

Re: [vos-d] Updated Road Map on Wiki

2008-02-19 Thread Reed Hedges
reed wrote: I updated the Road Map page on the Wiki to reflect S5 plans. Pete, please correct it if it's a bit off. This is just a general guideline, we don't really know yet when the first S5 release will be, or whether it will be a 1.0 release or a beta or testing prerelease that is

Re: [vos-d] Website design ideas

2008-02-19 Thread Reed Hedges
Lalo Martins wrote: I like #1. When I did a mockup a long long time ago, I went with a similar idea, and I think it's still valid; the metaphor being that you're looking at a few flat widgets floating in a 3d space. The main thing I don't like is it's too dark and black, which might scare

Re: [vos-d] Website design ideas

2008-02-18 Thread Reed Hedges
I made the divs a bit transparent in #1. I think they're too boring though, maybe need a bit more bubbliness? (Or is that too Web 2.0? :) Or more of a border? I just threw together the background images in blender, but I do like having them look more polygonated and emphasising that they are 3d

[vos-d] Future of the Blender UI

2008-02-18 Thread Reed Hedges
Here's Ton talking about some changes to the Blender UI code: http://www.blendernation.com/2008/02/18/the-future-of-blender/ Our UI client ideas are somewhat similar to the kind of things Blender does. If they make the code reusable and general enough, it's possible that we could even use it to

Re: [vos-d] Future of the Blender UI

2008-02-18 Thread Reed Hedges
The internal code changes are to use a more general event system for UI and tool actions, and make all the UI infrastructure accessible and customizable from Python. Here's more http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/SundayMeetingAgenda/December_23rd_2007

Re: [vos-d] More new S5 classes/concepts

2008-02-14 Thread Reed Hedges
Croquet is very cool. I know Pete and I have been following it and reading about it since we started VOS. I don't know if its details have influenced our design much, but some the end goals and features are similar. A lot about it is not documented, as far as I can tell. It's all is Squeak,

Re: [vos-d] Updated Road Map on Wiki

2008-02-14 Thread Reed Hedges
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:13:14PM +, Lalo Martins wrote: hypervos is already alive and kicking in the form of an Apache mod_vos; Ack! Why didn't you email the list! I've been adding stuff to S4 hypervos (and intend to port them to S5!) And I have many plans for further development (see

Re: [vos-d] s5 site ids

2008-02-10 Thread Reed Hedges
Lalo Martins wrote: AIUI from IRC conversations, the site IDs won't actually be visible to the application programmer later on; we'll deal only with IDs like /vos/ core/StringProperty. (I'm not sure about the code namespaces, but I hope some simplification is intended there too ;-) ) Peter

[vos-d] s5 build errors

2008-02-09 Thread Reed Hedges
Can this be fixed, or is there a way to disable sitetest, or have scons skip it or something? g++ -o debug/build/src/test/sitetest.o -c -g -Wall -Idebug/thirdparty/stage/include -Idebug/stage/include src/test/sitetest.cc src/test/sitetest.cc: In function 'void sitetest_verify_signature()':

Re: [vos-d] s5 site ids

2008-02-09 Thread Reed Hedges
The new type IDs are still bothering me a bit too (among other things, like the code namespaces). A huge advantage of the old user-invented type names is that they were natural to understand and easy to remember. We're going to have to do a lot of cutting and pasting, and when we get one

Re: [vos-d] More new S5 classes/concepts

2008-01-27 Thread Reed Hedges
Started listing S5 changes at: http://interreality.org/wiki/S5 http://interreality.org/wiki/ChangesToA3dl Will fill them in a bit as I go through the vos-d archives and talk to Pete more. Reed ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org

[vos-d] More new S5 classes/concepts

2008-01-22 Thread Reed Hedges
I'm going through S5 a bit more deeply now. Pete, can you give a summary explanation of these new classes/concepts, and how you use them, what they do, etc. What are: ComponentWrapper Promise Status (used with a Promise it seems?) IVobject VobjectImpl ImplementationWrapper

Re: [vos-d] More new S5 classes/concepts

2008-01-22 Thread Reed Hedges
And just a general impression... S5 is becoming really complex and daunting (and sophisticated, and hopefully very powerful) piece of software. But this means that we're going to need to put a *lot* of work in documenting, tutorials, as well as just polishing and refining the API itself, to

Re: [vos-d] s5 progress and design - OTD XML

2007-12-07 Thread Reed Hedges
On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 06:01:30PM +, Lalo Martins wrote: Also spracht Reed Hedges (Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:57:10 -0500): Oh, ok, then my sketch is not really SOD, just a similar thing. Sorry for apropriating the name. I didn't know that you implemented your format (or forgot). Why wasn't

Re: [vos-d] s5 progress and design

2007-12-06 Thread Reed Hedges
I don't know about Karsten, but the reason I have a knee-jerk reaction against suffixes like Wrapper is that it just feels like cruft, based on other systems where the word had no consistent meaning, at least from a user's perspective, it just seemed a hack to extend an API or facilitate its

Re: [vos-d] s5 progress and design - sites, hosts, and URLs oh my

2007-12-06 Thread Reed Hedges
Karsten Otto wrote: Ok, I see. But this implies there could be more servers than just one, each hosting a replica. Which one do I contact for updates? With VOP/VIP URLs this was straightforward, but please remind me again, how do I contact a vos:0011223344... key-based site? Is there a

Re: [vos-d] s5 progress and design

2007-12-05 Thread Reed Hedges
We should also include at this point a reminder of why there's a code generator. If I understand things correctly, the goal is to use the code generator to (a) generate code for different programming languages (b) make it easier for users to generate MetaObject (now called Component)

Re: [vos-d] s/MetaObject/Component

2007-11-29 Thread Reed Hedges
Component is generic, and also recalls COM etc. How about: Part Facet Role Type Fragment Trait What exactly *is* a metaobject? It's a constituent Vobject that's part of a real Vobject, and which implements a facet or part of that Vobject, probably corresponding to a type. It implements part

Re: [vos-d] s/MetaObject/Component

2007-11-29 Thread Reed Hedges
I guess it's a Decorator pattern, which other people might be familiar with from the Design Patterns books, so could be named after that. Though it's an unfortunate name, calling MetaObjects Decorations would kind of trivialize them :) I wonder where they came up with that name. Reed

Re: [vos-d] s/MetaObject/Component

2007-11-29 Thread Reed Hedges
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 11:16:16AM -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote: Part is even more generic/vague than component True, but it's not used very often in software (IME at least). Component does imply that it could be provided by a plugin module, and is dynamic, both of which are attributes of

Re: [vos-d] s/MetaObject/Component

2007-11-29 Thread Reed Hedges
Well, we don't want to take on all the baggage that other Component systems have. But then again, we're just talking about naming a class here, not the whole system. Reed ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org

[vos-d] S5 and ordering listeners

2007-10-22 Thread Reed Hedges
Can you comment on this Peter? Let's say I want a set of listeners attached to an object to be invoked in order. Let's say that both listeners live on the same local site (process) and maybe are both associated with the same vobject. Will there be a way to do this in S5? What if the listeners

Re: [vos-d] thinking about a new web site

2007-10-22 Thread Reed Hedges
Here are some ideas I had on revamping the web site. Graphic Design -- * Change the background to white or another light color. Maybe change the main content area to a different shade too, rather than current grey. * A set of background/side illustrations, that convey some of the

Re: [vos-d] notes from IRC

2007-10-19 Thread Reed Hedges
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 05:16:27PM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote: Notes from some initial discussion of the interreality 3d interface. Participants: winterk, zaharazod, tetron - Should be more like stuff people expect - Splitting and merging panels is likely to confuse casual users -

Re: [vos-d] Forums integrated with mailing lists

2007-10-19 Thread Reed Hedges
Here's an RSS feed for the vos-announce form/mailing list: http://interreality.org/announce.rss (actually, it's an alias for the RSS feed that the forum software generates, but this abstracts that in case we change forum software or whatever. vos-d also has an rss feed, just go to its forum

Re: [vos-d] Forums integrated with mailing lists

2007-10-19 Thread Reed Hedges
I think it would be ok to just black it out (e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED]). It's not that useful to have email addresses visible, this is just an artifact of how some email clients do replies. On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 11:07:22AM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote: Posted at:

Re: [vos-d] notes from IRC

2007-10-19 Thread Reed Hedges
Just thought of this: One thing that a remote app. might want to customize about the UI is how some things are labeled, or it might want to add special informational labels/text blocks/tooltips/bubbles/whatever. Reed ___ vos-d mailing list

Re: [vos-d] Forums integrated with mailing lists

2007-10-19 Thread Reed Hedges
Nope. You can see here: http://interreality.org/phorum/read.php?2,88 Reed On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 02:43:08PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Peter, I hope the mail addresses are not open readable in forum then, or we might get a lot of spam here soon? --

Re: [vos-d] s5 version control and persistence

2007-10-17 Thread Reed Hedges
On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 02:53:49AM +, Lalo Martins wrote: Also spracht Reed Hedges (Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:24:27 -0400): - type list - child list - payload, if any (eg properties) - security capabilities - parent list? That would be problematic. Since the PCRs are already

Re: [vos-d] s5 version control and persistence

2007-10-16 Thread Reed Hedges
This sounds really good. Having replication and clustering will be really important as we move forward. It will let us do all kinds of scaling and load distribution, and even manage things like internal, in-development or draft datasets that get published to a public site when ready... lots

[vos-d] Douglas Englebart and some Google folks talk about knowlege tools and organizational improvement

2007-09-05 Thread Reed Hedges
Brief oververview of Englebarts vision and ideas, talking to folks at Google. http://youtube.com/w/?v=xQx-tuW9A4Q ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d

Re: [vos-d] issue building on OS X

2007-08-30 Thread Reed Hedges
Pete has a Mac so maybe he can help. I guess you have neither readline nor termios, so it's trying to use getch() from curses. Can you post the 'config.log' file that should have been created in the main build directory? Can you grep for the getch() function somewhere, it should be in

Re: [vos-d] development plan

2007-07-22 Thread Reed Hedges
5) Come up with some milestones and prioritize development. The strategy will probably be to code enough of the VOS framework to support concurrent development of higher level pieces like A3DL, and to start putting some meat on the bones of the UI prototype. This may be something like

Re: [vos-d] What do we want in the 0.24 release?

2007-07-08 Thread Reed Hedges
this script recently? Have any problems that need to be fixed or missing features added? In a little while I'll consolidate possible tasks for 0.24 and we can prioritize them (we probably won't be able to do all of them, we ought to release 0.24 pretty soon). Reed Reed Hedges wrote

[vos-d] Interpolation in TerAngreal

2007-07-08 Thread Reed Hedges
I've been writing some code that makes some objects fly around and Ken's interpolation code makes it look nice and smooth. However, in doing so I experimented a bit with position update frequency, wondering what the slowest rate I could use is, especially when the velocity I was trying to

Re: [vos-d] State of S4 Scripting (Lalo!)

2007-07-03 Thread Reed Hedges
It doesn't have to be in depth about how it works, just shows what it does and doesn't do (i.e. it just wraps the core vobject and property api, right, not all the metaobjects [yet]?) and how to go about trying to use it, maybe give some examples. How do you build it? (run setup.py?) Reed

Re: [vos-d] State of S4 Scripting (Lalo!)

2007-07-02 Thread Reed Hedges
Lalo Martins wrote: Yes. There is already a prototype s5-scripting branch somewhere to match Peter's prototype s5 branch, and it looks absolutely beautiful, although Is it sftp://interreality.org/home/bzroot/s5-scripting/libs/vos/python? Do you have any documentation or notes you can add

Re: [vos-d] State of S4 Scripting (Lalo!)

2007-07-01 Thread Reed Hedges
scripting? (which would be basically a dead end.) Reed Lalo Martins wrote: Also spracht Reed Hedges (Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:58:40 -0400): What is the state of the S4 scripting branch (http://interreality.org/home/bzroot/s4-scripting)? Does the Python interface work? disclaimer: I haven't

[vos-d] What do we want in the 0.24 release?

2007-06-29 Thread Reed Hedges
Are there any bugs or real defects in Ter'Angreal or VOS? I know of two, don't know if we should fix them: * Avatar settings (model/skin) aren't saved (really just an unimplemented feature) * Objects aren't always removed from the world Something to test is whether all A3DL

Re: [vos-d] thoughts and plans

2007-06-29 Thread Reed Hedges
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 12:29:43PM +0200, Karsten Otto wrote: This sounds like a radical redesign... so far we had a single local vobject acting as a sequencer for multiple remote vobjects. Obviously, you have something new in mind. Please tell us more :-) My feeling is that this would be

Re: [vos-d] What do we want in the 0.24 release?

2007-06-29 Thread Reed Hedges
On Fri, Jun 29, 2007 at 08:05:37AM -0600, S Mattison wrote: I can fall through the map. =P Well maybe you need a floor! :) Well, it's not difficult when there are no invisible bounding boxes holding me on. Actually it's several things 1. Bounds in the world that terangreal can check,

[vos-d] State of S4 Scripting (Lalo!)

2007-06-27 Thread Reed Hedges
What is the state of the S4 scripting branch (http://interreality.org/home/bzroot/s4-scripting)? Does the Python interface work? Thinking about what we should try to include in 0.24 (codename s4 swan song). Reed ___ vos-d mailing list

[vos-d] tags, trees, tables, and types

2007-06-27 Thread Reed Hedges
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 10:38:37AM -0400, Andrew Robbins wrote: I have also been thinking a great deal about tables, tags, trees, and types (talk about illiteration!). The reason I've been thinking so much about them is that every once in awhile, I'll come up with a new way of converting

Re: [vos-d] development status

2007-06-09 Thread Reed Hedges
Chris is referring here to a proposal for the X3D format/language (new version of VRML) to add the sensor nodes mentioned, by the way. Reed chris wrote: Hi, just a few comments on other status that may interest. I have been testing tcp/ip networking with an implementation of the network

Re: [vos-d] Listener notifications in S5

2007-06-08 Thread Reed Hedges
On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 10:02:03PM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote: On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 07:31:42PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote: How do listener notifications fit in with the S5 vobject-as-logical-thread idea? I'm thinking specifically about impact on ability to scale number of objects

[vos-d] Listener notifications in S5

2007-06-07 Thread Reed Hedges
How do listener notifications fit in with the S5 vobject-as-logical-thread idea? I'm thinking specifically about impact on ability to scale number of objects that one listener is listening to. I'm guessing listener notifications are processed same as any other messages in the vobject's

[vos-d] Errors building crystalspace

2007-05-29 Thread Reed Hedges
Was the crystalspace snapshot updated or changed recently? I'm getting these errors now trying to build it. Is anyone else or is something strange going on with my checkout? C++ ./out/linuxx86/debug/libs/csutil/csstring.o ./include/csutil/formatter.h:992: error: non-template

Re: [vos-d] Errors building crystalspace

2007-05-29 Thread Reed Hedges
not and will probably never use). Reed Reed Hedges wrote: Was the crystalspace snapshot updated or changed recently? I'm getting these errors now trying to build it. Is anyone else or is something strange going on with my checkout? ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d

[vos-d] Embedded properties, string pooling, and search

2007-05-18 Thread Reed Hedges
The planned S5 features of embedded properties and string pooling ought to make it efficient to search for objects on a site by type or name (due to string pooling), if the shared strings have pointers back to their vobjects, right? Have you implemented string pooling yet, or what are your plans

Re: [vos-d] Scaling and Origins -- 0.23 vs 0.24

2007-05-16 Thread Reed Hedges
On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 10:18:34AM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote: The bigger problem was I was doing something dumb in 0.23, which was the code that loads the md2 models for avatars recenters it to make the origin the center of the avatar bounding box rather than at the avatar's feet. So

Re: [vos-d] Wanna help the Mass Avatar Mash?

2007-05-15 Thread Reed Hedges
We don't have specific plans for H-anim and VOS. We haven't designed how jointed, animateable geometry will work in VOS yet. Chris is just keeping us informed about possible things to do (thanks Chris) I think. At this point, we plan on having a general VRML server for VOS that exposes a

Re: [vos-d] Van Jacobson: named data

2007-05-11 Thread Reed Hedges
Yeah, so his ideas cut accross all kinds of layers and aspects of networking. so I don't think VOS can be THE solution to the problems he explains, but it can provide a few key tools. Namely it can be a data storage system, both for originals, and replicated copies, and for store-and-forward,

Re: [vos-d] Van Jacobson: named data

2007-05-08 Thread Reed Hedges
I downloaded a copy of this video if anyone wants it. Reed ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d

Re: [vos-d] Van Jacobson: named data -- revision control

2007-05-08 Thread Reed Hedges
There are lots of ways to do version control in VOS-- we already have it partly implemented. One important thing that we need to decide is how to expose particular object revisions to remote sites. I think we need to be able to refer (by URL) to both the current version, or to any past version

Re: [vos-d] Van Jacobson: named data -- revision control

2007-05-08 Thread Reed Hedges
This means that if that version object is mutable, i.e. a not read-only property, we need to also have branches in the version history, and any reference to a past version of a vobjcet is really a reference to the most recent version in the branch rooted on this object, which if there is

Re: [vos-d] Van Jacobson: named data

2007-05-08 Thread Reed Hedges
I guess each copy, whether changed or not, should have a pointer to its original. I wonder if any vobject version should not have it's versions inside it, but simply have a pointer to it's predecessor (or the other way around, an object has links to all its derivatives). Then you can have

Re: [vos-d] Movement interpolation update

2007-05-06 Thread Reed Hedges
Karsten Otto wrote: You cannot really fix this with a don't-interpolate flag, as there is no good place to put one. You could extend the property- update notification, but a lot of properties do not use interpolation That's ok. Nothing stops you from adding whatever fields you want to the

Re: [vos-d] Movement interpolation update

2007-05-03 Thread Reed Hedges
Thanks for working on this, Ken, it will really make things smoother and more usable! Peter Amstutz wrote: clear line between developers and users, it is better to keep everyone on the same list so that everyone sees all of the discussion. Yes, we don't have enough people to split, that

Re: [vos-d] build system reviews (long)

2007-04-26 Thread Reed Hedges
On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 11:07:11PM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote: It's actually make distcheck that's interesting in this case. In automake it gives you a single command that will build a source tarball, unpack it to another directory, runs configure and does a build. It's a very useful

Re: [vos-d] VOS on Solaris?

2007-04-25 Thread Reed Hedges
Lars O. Grobe wrote: Do you have libtool installed? That is a separate package from autoconf and automake. I compiled the most recent one from GNU. As I am not root, I installed it in my home and added it to my PATH. Does the build make any assumption where to find libtool (e.g. under

Re: [vos-d] Patches for 0.24 in MSVC

2007-04-24 Thread Reed Hedges
Wow, thanks Ken! The only thing I haven't really tracked down is that avatar movement seems a bit jerky in the MSVC build. If I get more time I might look into it... Try it in a release build. (both VOS and Crystalspace in release mode). MSVC puts a lot of extra code in when in debug

Re: [vos-d] VOS on Solaris?

2007-04-22 Thread Reed Hedges
Hi Lars, thanks for giving it a try. We have not tried the current version of vos on Solaris yet but would like to make it work there (the libraries and server at least). Are you using 0.23, or the development version (source control repository snapshot or checkout)? What version of autoconf is

[vos-d] S5 and single-thread option

2007-04-20 Thread Reed Hedges
Pete, in your description of S5 so far it seems like it is defining a threading model that is not neccesarily coupled to a particular thread implementation. That is, conceptually vobjects are threads or proceses but I am guessing that you won't be implementing it by simply creating a pthread for

[vos-d] server requirements

2007-04-18 Thread Reed Hedges
In a different forum, Hellekin Wolf asked: The server issue mentioned above makes me think of the requirements for running a VOS world. Do I need hardware graphics or is it only for the client side? A server does not need any graphics hardware. Many servers in fact are just providing data

Re: [vos-d] Thinking about Javascript

2007-04-18 Thread Reed Hedges
On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 07:27:21AM +, Lalo Martins wrote: One problem I have with the pure-js version is the nature of HTTP; either the browser would need to keep a persistent connection to the server, like some web chat rooms do -- which is error prone (hard to recover from a

Re: [vos-d] Integration of VOS and IRC

2007-04-18 Thread Reed Hedges
This would be great for people who primarily want to just chat or be present in the world while doing other work, so they don't want the full 3D world. It would also make it possible for blind people to interact in the 3D world. Reed On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 01:54:23PM -0400, Peter Amstutz

Re: [vos-d] Integration of VOS and IRC

2007-04-18 Thread Reed Hedges
scenery part). Unfortunately, viewpoints usually have no navigation links between them. So for what you want to do, you need a combination of both. This requires some work, but VOS is flexible enough to support all this. Yeah, you would just have the waypoint object type have child

[vos-d] Thinking about Javascript

2007-04-16 Thread Reed Hedges
Is anyone here familiar with Javascript much? I'm wondering what kind of networking tools are available from Javascript. I've been reading about a thing some people call Comet, (http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=545) which basically a publish/push model for the server to update pages live. It

Re: [vos-d] terangreal changes

2007-04-15 Thread Reed Hedges
S Mattison wrote: How do you differentiate between I'm clicking on this to activate it and I'm clicking on this to edit its properties? What do you mean by activate? You mean if the objcet has the clickable type? Different mouse clicks probably. Or have modes. Uh, yea. That if the object

Re: [vos-d] terangreal changes

2007-04-13 Thread Reed Hedges
On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 10:29:35PM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote: On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 09:26:09PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote: * Change mouse cursor to reflect what clicking will do (i.e. differentiate between mouselook/move modes; change when over a hypercard or clickable) Yea

Re: [vos-d] s5 concurrency (design part 2)

2007-04-12 Thread Reed Hedges
Peter Amstutz wrote: On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 05:16:16PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote: There's also something called Flow-Based Programming that is similar. In some ways it's closer to VOS since Actors are, I think, more like method handlers (in VOS terminology). I don't agree. Flow-based

Re: [vos-d] s5 concurrency (design part 2)

2007-04-12 Thread Reed Hedges
So messages between local objects will be serialized and passed like remote messages, rather than being method calls? Is that overhead a concern? If so, maybe an optimization would be to have a message format that just packs native machine format arguments into the message in the same order

Re: [vos-d] s5 concurrency (design part 2)

2007-04-12 Thread Reed Hedges
Peter Amstutz wrote: On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 08:16:59AM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote: So messages between local objects will be serialized and passed like remote messages, rather than being method calls? Is that overhead a concern? It is a concern, although I'm don't think I would call

Re: [vos-d] terangreal changes

2007-04-12 Thread Reed Hedges
Sounds great. Here are some things I was thinking of doing to terangreal, please advise/modify: * Change mouse cursor to reflect what clicking will do (i.e. differentiate between mouselook/move modes; change when over a hypercard or clickable) * If you click some mouse button on an object

Re: [vos-d] misc:search questions

2007-04-07 Thread Reed Hedges
Ken Taylor wrote: the fact that you guys seem to be allergic to comments doesn't help either ;) (i jest! i jest ... sorta) Just Pete. But he wrote most of the code. Reed ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org

Re: [vos-d] bakefiles

2007-04-04 Thread Reed Hedges
Peter Amstutz wrote: Whenever I try to set up a VOS build environment on Windows, I get a sharp, throbbing headache and a strong urge to throw my chair out the window. It's difficult to understate just how big of a maintainance hassle the current build system is on Windows (whether Cygwin,

Re: [vos-d] keyboard vs. wimp interface for 3d

2007-04-03 Thread Reed Hedges
Karsten Otto wrote: Interestingly, while it has buttons that trigger actions, I mainly used them as a quick way to arrange keyboard shortcuts during normal gameplay. The only time I ever used the interface in a traditional way was for complex actions like trading items. Actually this is

Re: [vos-d] bakefiles

2007-04-01 Thread Reed Hedges
Is it really bad enough to throw out our investment in the autotools configuration? bakefile is probably the most obscure of all the build tools you list. If you do switch to bakefile, let's keep some Makefiles in the bzr tree. And keep bakefile inside the bzr tree so that you don't have to

Re: [vos-d] Flux Worlds Server Announcement

2007-03-31 Thread Reed Hedges
different protocols. Not sure yet how to bridge to completely different multiuser 3D systems but at some point we might see if it's possible. Reed Reed Hedges wrote: Subject: [www-vrml] Flux Worlds Server Announcement

Re: [vos-d] s5 design overview

2007-03-30 Thread Reed Hedges
Ken Taylor wrote: Peter Amstutz wrote: 1. Memory footprint The current s4 design has a lot of per-vobject overhead, leading to a significant memory footprint. The development version improves on this a bit, but the honest truth is that the implementation was not written with memory

[vos-d] Flux Worlds Server Announcement

2007-03-30 Thread Reed Hedges
---BeginMessage--- Folks, We've been up to something over here - thought I would tell you about it before you heard it on the street. Media Machines has been developing a multi-user server based on a new protocol that we intend to put out into the open. We have dubbed it Simple Wide Area

Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party

2007-03-22 Thread Reed Hedges
We don't know what our niche is yet. We have one main domain (3D) and a secondary domain (Web) but there might even be others. Actually when we first began this several years ago, we knew someone who knew someone intersted in building factory tracking systems, though we ended up not really

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