Re: [Vserver] Re: OT: something like VServer, but for Windows platform?
On 7 Dec 2005 at 22:08, Gerhard Hofmann wrote: > Xavier Montagutelli wrote: > > > > VMware or MS Virtual Server are not identical to Linux VServer, as > > they virtualize a full machine and not only an execution environment > > for the applications. But perhaps it is a solution for Gerhard ? > > > > Sorry, I should have been more precise in my original posting. I > already have used VMware and wondered if there was a VServer-like > (only execution environment, not full-blown hardware emulation) > alternative on Windows. It's not really vserver like, but definately an only execution environment: www.sandboxie.com -- Regards, Dennis Roos Network Engineer InTouch N.V. Middenweg 76 1097 BS Amsterdam Tel: +31 (0)20 6752060 Fax: +31 (0)20 6758429 ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] Re: OT: something like VServer, but for Windows platform?
On 12/7/05, Gerhard Hofmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Xavier Montagutelli wrote: > > > > VMware or MS Virtual Server are not identical to Linux VServer, as they > > virtualize a full machine and not only an execution environment for the > > applications. But perhaps it is a solution for Gerhard ? > > > > Sorry, I should have been more precise in my original posting. I already > have used VMware and wondered if there was a VServer-like (only > execution environment, not full-blown hardware emulation) alternative on > Windows. > > Regards > Gerhard Colinux, http://colinux.sourceforge.net/ allows you to run linux guest operating systems right in windows. It's basically a kernel patch to the Linux kernel that allows it to run as a windows process. It works really well if you don't need to be in a virtualized hardware environment. Like VMware it allocates disk space and RAM so it's not as lightweight as Linux Vserver but it's a lot more resource friendly (IMHO) than VMWare. -- Matthew Nuzum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> www.followers.net - Makers of "Elite Content Management System" View samples of Elite CMS in action by visiting http://www.followers.net/portfolio/ ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
[Vserver] Re: OT: something like VServer, but for Windows platform?
Xavier Montagutelli wrote: VMware or MS Virtual Server are not identical to Linux VServer, as they virtualize a full machine and not only an execution environment for the applications. But perhaps it is a solution for Gerhard ? Sorry, I should have been more precise in my original posting. I already have used VMware and wondered if there was a VServer-like (only execution environment, not full-blown hardware emulation) alternative on Windows. Regards Gerhard ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer vs OpenVZ
> > > FreeVPS stores pointer to context structure, at kernel object (more > > work, debugging, but much faster access to data, that is needed for > > each context switch). > > hmm, again JFYI, linux-vserver uses both, context references > as well as xid information, wherever the one or the other > applies ... > network, fs, ngnet looks use xid taging. I don`t see real use of context reference. > > I see a lot of potential in the possible merge, but I consider the > > way FreeVPS works with context ids to be much more efficient. I also > > consider it fairly critical for optimum performance on a server with > > large number of VPSes. It would be great to work together though, but > > it makes sense only if VServer developers are interested in merging > > projects/porting some of the FreeVPS staff to VServers as well. > > cooperation is not about porting stuff from one project > to the other, cooperation is about discussing stuff and > ideas, and keeping the APIs (and maybe userspace tools) > somewhat compatible, so that folks (the customers) can > choose to their likings ... > > For me, it`s interested only with merge project to one. > > > Other side - FreeVPS used RH EL kernels. this adds stability to the > > kernel API, while all the bug fixes are back ported. At the same time > > I do not understand why folks always think that back > porting bug fixes adds to stability ... well, maybe > to the stability of the API but not to the kernel > stability ... > :) If you don`t love RH, look how work Debian re. > > Vserver can continue to use bleeding edge kernels/be portable across > > all the platforms If compare features - FreeVPS has all features which > > VServer have at x86 platform. Yet, at this moment it is the only > > platform supported. > > hmm, looking here I see a bunch of differences: > > http://www.freevps.com/tracker.html > This only basic :) Don`t include per context IPC, per context ip_conntrack, per context arp_tables, separated UIDS, and some other. > btw, is there a patch (or even better, broken out > version) available which applies to mainline? > (just curious) > > best, > Herbert > > PS: please point me to _any_ patch against a well > known base kernel (for the recent FreeVPS versions) > look into CVS repository or http://vps-demo.freevps.com/snapshots/patches/. Last freevps26 patches is against RH 2.6.9-22.0.1 kernel. -- FreeVPS Developers Team http://www.freevps.com Positive Softwarehttp://www.psoft.net ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] patch for linux-2.6.14.3
> *phew* traveled into the past and did a few releases > so folks are happy again ... :) Thnx :-) -- regards, Georges Toth ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer vs OpenVZ
On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 05:57:31PM +0200, Alex Lyashkov wrote: > ? ???, 07.12.2005, ? 16:34, Herbert Poetzl ?: > > On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 06:44:43AM +0200, Alex Lyashkov wrote: > > > > > > > (will use Z for OpenVZ and S for Linux-VServer) > > > > > > > > > Factors of interest are > > > > > - stability, > > > > > > > > Z: the announcement reads "first stable OVZ version" > > > > S: we are at version 2.0.1 (> two years stable releases) > > > > > > > And all this time VServer need a hack for allow bind socket to > > > INADDR_ANY at VPS ;-) > > > > hmm, well, it works reasonably fine .. no? > > > The thing that I find unreasonable is that you cannot bind to > INADDR_ANY on the host server, without affecting all the VPSes. This > basically means that if you have default bind (or ssh) installed on > the HOST system, no VPSes will be able to bring up those services. no, you are wrong there, the difference is you _can_ bind to INADDR_ANY on the host and it _will_ do the expected thing (i.e. bind to _all_ configured IPs) of course, you also have the choice to put the entire host into some chbind jail, so that binds to INADDR_ANY are restricted to a subset ... so, IMHO it's a feature ... > > > Z Have: COW VFS (simular unionfs), > > > > S: has CoW link breaking (more powerful than unionfs :) > > > CoW link requires glibc modification, while VZFS does not. if it does, then you're doing something wrong ... (JFYI: the CoW link breaking is done in the kernel) > The negative side of VZFS is double buffering, due to it > being stackable FS. yes, that's why we avoid it ... > > > Virtual networking support, > > > Fair-share scheduler > > > > S: priority and hard cpu schedulers > > > This is not the same. Priority and hard limits don't provide > fair share CPU scheduling. Two different things (three). well, 'fair share' has been in linux-vserver for ages > > > Z don`t have: disk namespace support > > > (but create vroot simular FreeBSD Jail). > > > > but I guess we are heading towards a feature > > shootout (which is fine for me, but isn't very > > important for the userbase, I guess :) > > > > best, > > Herbert > > > > PS: nice to hear from you! > > PPS: is there anything left from the cooperation > > we started a year ago (or so)? > > > It would be great, but somewhat difficult as Vserver and FreeVPS use > different ideology. VServer and OpenVZ store context id at kernel > objects level (it's easier to develop, but slows down access to > context data). > FreeVPS stores pointer to context structure, at kernel object (more > work, debugging, but much faster access to data, that is needed for > each context switch). hmm, again JFYI, linux-vserver uses both, context references as well as xid information, wherever the one or the other applies ... btw, do you have any test results showing that FreeVPS contexts are faster? if so, please provide them ... > I see a lot of potential in the possible merge, but I consider the > way FreeVPS works with context ids to be much more efficient. I also > consider it fairly critical for optimum performance on a server with > large number of VPSes. It would be great to work together though, but > it makes sense only if VServer developers are interested in merging > projects/porting some of the FreeVPS staff to VServers as well. cooperation is not about porting stuff from one project to the other, cooperation is about discussing stuff and ideas, and keeping the APIs (and maybe userspace tools) somewhat compatible, so that folks (the customers) can choose to their likings ... > Other side - FreeVPS used RH EL kernels. this adds stability to the > kernel API, while all the bug fixes are back ported. At the same time I do not understand why folks always think that back porting bug fixes adds to stability ... well, maybe to the stability of the API but not to the kernel stability ... > Vserver can continue to use bleeding edge kernels/be portable across > all the platforms If compare features - FreeVPS has all features which > VServer have at x86 platform. Yet, at this moment it is the only > platform supported. hmm, looking here I see a bunch of differences: http://www.freevps.com/tracker.html btw, is there a patch (or even better, broken out version) available which applies to mainline? (just curious) best, Herbert PS: please point me to _any_ patch against a well known base kernel (for the recent FreeVPS versions) > -- > FreeVPS Developers Team http://www.freevps.com > Positive Softwarehttp://www.psoft.net > > ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [OT][Vserver] VServer vs OpenVZ
On Wednesday 07 December 2005 16:57, Alex Lyashkov wrote: > В Срд, 07.12.2005, в 16:34, Herbert Poetzl пишет: > > On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 06:44:43AM +0200, Alex Lyashkov wrote: > > > > (will use Z for OpenVZ and S for Linux-VServer) > > > > > > > > > Factors of interest are > > > > > - stability, > > > > > > > > Z: the announcement reads "first stable OVZ version" > > > > S: we are at version 2.0.1 (> two years stable releases) > > > > > > And all this time VServer need a hack for allow bind socket to > > > INADDR_ANY at VPS ;-) > > > > hmm, well, it works reasonably fine .. no? > > The thing that I find unreasonable is that you cannot bind to INADDR_ANY > on > the host server, without affecting all the VPSes. > This basically means that if you have default bind (or ssh) installed on > the HOST system, no VPSes will be able to bring up those services. The guests bring up the services just fine... You can't do anything usefull with them, I'll grant you that. It just shows that security and server administration of servers should not be taken lightly. What I find unreasonable in a lot of applications is that some don't even allow you to bind to a specific interface and/or address, but this is the wrong ML to discuss that topic ;) One more thing I would like to add to this discussion is that life is about choice... Some decide to use Linux-VServer, some decide to use OpenVZ while managers tend to go for a Virtuozzo license. Some prefer vi, some prefer joe while others can not live without emacs; a different subject, same discussion ;) Everyone has a different need and there are always many solutions to problem, some solutions are to be preferred, which does not necessarily mean that the others are bad. Just my $.02 -- Regards, Dennis Roos ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer vs OpenVZ
В Срд, 07.12.2005, в 16:34, Herbert Poetzl пишет: > On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 06:44:43AM +0200, Alex Lyashkov wrote: > > > > > (will use Z for OpenVZ and S for Linux-VServer) > > > > > > > Factors of interest are > > > > - stability, > > > > > > Z: the announcement reads "first stable OVZ version" > > > S: we are at version 2.0.1 (> two years stable releases) > > > > > And all this time VServer need a hack for allow bind socket to > > INADDR_ANY at VPS ;-) > > hmm, well, it works reasonably fine .. no? > The thing that I find unreasonable is that you cannot bind to INADDR_ANY on the host server, without affecting all the VPSes. This basically means that if you have default bind (or ssh) installed on the HOST system, no VPSes will be able to bring up those services. > > Z Have: COW VFS (simular unionfs), > > S: has CoW link breaking (more powerful than unionfs :) > CoW link requires glibc modification, while VZFS does not. The negative side of VZFS is double buffering, due to it being stackable FS. > > Virtual networking support, > > Fair-share scheduler > > S: priority and hard cpu schedulers > This is not the same. Priority and hard limits don't provide fair share CPU scheduling. Two different things (three). > > Z don`t have: disk namespace support > > (but create vroot simular FreeBSD Jail). > > but I guess we are heading towards a feature > shootout (which is fine for me, but isn't very > important for the userbase, I guess :) > > best, > Herbert > > PS: nice to hear from you! > PPS: is there anything left from the cooperation > we started a year ago (or so)? > It would be great, but somewhat difficult as Vserver and FreeVPS use different ideology. VServer and OpenVZ store context id at kernel objects level (it's easier to develop, but slows down access to context data). FreeVPS stores pointer to context structure, at kernel object (more work, debugging, but much faster access to data, that is needed for each context switch). I see a lot of potential in the possible merge, but I consider the way FreeVPS works with context ids to be much more efficient. I also consider it fairly critical for optimum performance on a server with large number of VPSes. It would be great to work together though, but it makes sense only if VServer developers are interested in merging projects/porting some of the FreeVPS staff to VServers as well. Other side - FreeVPS used RH EL kernels. this adds stability to the kernel API, while all the bug fixes are back ported. At the same time Vserver can continue to use bleeding edge kernels/be portable across all the platforms If compare features - FreeVPS has all features which VServer have at x86 platform. Yet, at this moment it is the only platform supported. -- FreeVPS Developers Team http://www.freevps.com Positive Softwarehttp://www.psoft.net ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] patch for linux-2.6.14.3
On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 12:44:43PM +0100, Georges Toth wrote: > Hi Bertl, > > Could you please make a patch for linux-2.6.14.3 ? *phew* traveled into the past and did a few releases so folks are happy again ... :) http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Experimental/patch-2.6.14.3-vs2.0.1-rc5.diff http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Experimental/patch-2.6.14.3-vs2.1.0-rc10.diff > > -- > > regards, > Georges Toth > ___ > Vserver mailing list > Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org > http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] Re: OT: something like VServer, but for Windows platform?
On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 02:34:16PM +0100, Xavier Montagutelli wrote: > On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 11:13:24AM +0100, Manfred Lichtenstern wrote: > > > > Hi list, > > > > > Hi list, > > > > > > sorry for being off-topic: is there something like VServer for the > > > "Windows World"? > > > > Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 (Standard Edition) ? > > VMware or MS Virtual Server are not identical to Linux VServer, as > they virtualize a full machine and not only an execution environment > for the applications. But perhaps it is a solution for Gerhard ? > > Something similar to VMware and Virtual Server : soon Xen 3 with Intel > VT or AMD Pacifica processors ? no, Xen will alway (per design) be at a different level/layer where the entire machine is virtualized and a separate kernel has to be run for each guest ... best, Herbert PS: it's pretty complementary to Linux-VServer > Regards, > -- > Xavier Montagutelli > Service Commun Informatique > Universite de Limoges > Tel : +33 555457720 > Cle GPG : http://pgp.mit.edu 1024D/175CE198 > ___ > Vserver mailing list > Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org > http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] VServer vs OpenVZ
On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 06:44:43AM +0200, Alex Lyashkov wrote: > > > (will use Z for OpenVZ and S for Linux-VServer) > > > > > Factors of interest are > > > - stability, > > > > Z: the announcement reads "first stable OVZ version" > > S: we are at version 2.0.1 (> two years stable releases) > > > And all this time VServer need a hack for allow bind socket to > INADDR_ANY at VPS ;-) hmm, well, it works reasonably fine .. no? > Z Have: COW VFS (simular unionfs), S: has CoW link breaking (more powerful than unionfs :) > Virtual networking support, > Fair-share scheduler S: priority and hard cpu schedulers > Z don`t have: disk namespace support > (but create vroot simular FreeBSD Jail). but I guess we are heading towards a feature shootout (which is fine for me, but isn't very important for the userbase, I guess :) best, Herbert PS: nice to hear from you! PPS: is there anything left from the cooperation we started a year ago (or so)? > -- > FreeVPS Developers Team http://www.freevps.com > Positive Softwarehttp://www.psoft.net > > ___ > Vserver mailing list > Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org > http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] Re: OT: something like VServer, but for Windows platform?
On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 11:13:24AM +0100, Manfred Lichtenstern wrote: > > Hi list, > > > Hi list, > > > > sorry for being off-topic: is there something like VServer for the > > "Windows World"? > > Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 (Standard Edition) ? VMware or MS Virtual Server are not identical to Linux VServer, as they virtualize a full machine and not only an execution environment for the applications. But perhaps it is a solution for Gerhard ? Something similar to VMware and Virtual Server : soon Xen 3 with Intel VT or AMD Pacifica processors ? Regards, -- Xavier Montagutelli Service Commun Informatique Universite de Limoges Tel : +33 555457720 Cle GPG : http://pgp.mit.edu 1024D/175CE198 ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] sample fedora guest images?
Hi Patrick, > I run a test debian host server and I want to try fedora as host client. (sorry for the late post) Images from the OpenVZ project work fine under Vserver as well: http://openvz.org/download/template/cache/ Use vservers' skeleton build scripts followed by untarring the chosen package from above. The images don't seem to have 'yum' installed, however - yum is to rpm tools what apt is to deb tools . You can get it from either the Fedora mirrors, or http://linux.duke.edu/projects/yum/download.ptml Regards, Chris ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] patch for linux-2.6.14.3
Georges Toth wrote: Hi Bertl, Could you please make a patch for linux-2.6.14.3 ? You mean like http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Experimental/patch-2.6.14.3-vs2.0.1-rc5.diff ? -- Daniel Hokka Zakrisson GPG id: 06723412 pgpGNTfsJ9Ruu.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] patch for linux-2.6.14.3
Hi, I'd be interessted in a 2.6.14.3 patch as well. Tried to adapt the patch myself, but found some severe differences in several files I don't have any knowledge of, so I don't wanna mess up the stuff. ;) Best, Lars Georges Toth wrote: Hi Bertl, Could you please make a patch for linux-2.6.14.3 ? ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
[Vserver] patch for linux-2.6.14.3
Hi Bertl, Could you please make a patch for linux-2.6.14.3 ? -- regards, Georges Toth ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
[Vserver] Re: OT: something like VServer, but for Windows platform?
Hi list, > Hi list, > > sorry for being off-topic: is there something like VServer for the > "Windows World"? Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 (Standard Edition) ? > Regards > Gerhard Regards Manfred ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] OT: something like VServer, but for Windows platform?
> Hi list, > > sorry for being off-topic: is there something like VServer for the > "Windows World"? > The closest I've seen in terms of moving from one VPS to another is Virtuozzo for Windows (v3.5 now?). You could also look at VMWare but I think thats not quite what you are asking Rus -- e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : t: 01635 281120 | google: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unix Admin work from £15/hour or $25/hour http://www.a2b2.com - UK and US Dedicated and Virtual servers http://www.instantblog.net - Does exactly what it says on the name ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
[Vserver] OT: something like VServer, but for Windows platform?
Hi list, sorry for being off-topic: is there something like VServer for the "Windows World"? Regards Gerhard ___ Vserver mailing list Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
Re: [Vserver] Problem with shutdown
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roché Compaan) writes:
> Squid takes longer than most processes to stop, and this seems be a
> problem when stopping a vserver:
> ...
> Stopping proxy server: (waiting.../usr/sbin/vserver: line
> 85: 20939 Killed "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ${USE_VNAMESPACE:
> +$_VNAMESPACE --enter "$S_CONTEXT" -- } $_VCONTEXT $SILENT_OPT --migrate
> --chroot --xid "$S_CONTEXT" -- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
>
> Is the stop script experiencing a timeout and if so, is there a
> setting one can change to let it wait until squid has stopped
> completely?
E.g.
# echo 60 > /etc/vservers/www-cache/apps/vshelper/sync-timeout
increases the timeout from 30 to 60 seconds.
Enrico
pgp6tPTbADVRQ.pgp
Description: PGP signature
___
Vserver mailing list
Vserver@list.linux-vserver.org
http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver
