Re: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800
As others have noted Merv.not worth it. I fail to see the value in it even if it were technically possible. If it were a legacy device that you just had to have, maybe...but an external Hard Drive? Nup. Just plug it into your USB port on your iMac and it will work OK, just not as fast as Firewire800. Alternatively, get an external Firewire 800 case and transfer the drive (assuming it's not a chipped drive). Stuart On 27/04/12 10:22 AM, hugh griffiths hgr...@hotmail.com wrote: The power issue is the one I would be the most cautious with, USB is 5 v or less, but firewire can be up to 40 V ( different ampages as well and I would be very worried as the pins for power would be different as well) Hugh Subject: Re: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800 From: wa...@macwizardry.com.au Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:03:27 +0800 To: wamug@wamug.org.au Got in before I did Carlo :) So won't rehash what you've written,..lol :) But yes, I'd be a bit cautious. The other thing would be if you'd see any real world speed difference. The USB3 would only be running at USB2 speed as that is what the Mac would expect, so it's not going to convert to Firewire speeds, so I think you'd still be gaining USB2 speeds anyway. So no real improvement. I could be wrong here, but I also had the impression there were differing data versus power consumptions through both a USB and Firewire cable. (ie one pulls through or expects more power and data then the other). So wouldn't want to fry anything if there was. Again, I could be wrong there,... Found this info as well, which may help with it... /quote Firewire is isochronous, basically meaning that you can pump clocked data though it in real time. USB works more like TCPIP, with the data chopped up into packets and later reassembled. (Thus, at a minimum, you have latency, that is, the wait for the data to be put back together.) Second, the Firewire protocol allows more direct address to memory (including mass storage) with minimal intervention of the CPU. /end quote I can't lay my hands on the other info I thought I had and Siri can only do so much when driving,..lol ;) Kind regards Daniel Sent from my iPhone 4s --- Daniel Kerr MacWizardry Phone: 0414 795 960 Email: daniel AT macwizardry.com.au Web: http://www.macwizardry.com.au **For everything Macintosh** On 27/04/2012, at 8:46 AM, cm wrote: Hi Merv and Peter, I would be wary of those connectors. Notice they are all on resale sites, none are manufacturer sales. They could be fakes. As I said earlier, I don't believe it is possible to convert USB to Firewire with just a simple pin-to-pin cable. USB used the PC as the bus master whereas Firewire is a true peer-to-peer connection and required handshaking signals back from the disk drive. Cheers, Carlo On 27/04/2012, at 7:10 , Peter Sealy wrote: I thought I had a vague memory (at my age all memories are vague) of seeing USB to Firewire converters somewhere. So I did a quick Google search and came up with these. I have not looked in depth at any of them and have not explored any further but the Google search will surely find more info. http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_kw=USB+A+MALE+TO+IEEE1394+4+PIN+Firewire +ADAPTER+CONVERTER http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER®-Travel-Firewire-Cable-Adapters/dp/B00354MVP0 http://www.ask.com/questions-about/Firewire-USB-Converter http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-firewire-to-usb-adapter.htm http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/usb-to-firewire-converter.html Search Google : convert usb to firewire adapter HTH .. Peter Sealy Thurgoona AUSTRALIA She was only a whiskey maker, but he loved her still. On 26/04/2012, at 11:28 PM, Merv Bond wrote: I have been looking on the net at cables, converters and hubs that boast connections between USB and firewire. My search is based on wishing to connect an external HD with USB3 sockets to my iMac which has a Firewire800 socket. Has anyone used such a cable and if so is the performance of a quality that is useful? Can a bootable external HD be achieved with such a device? Merv -- The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of Man') -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http
Re: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800
Thank you everyone for your responses. A dealer I spoke to suggested such a cable existed but they didn't have one in stock. However, having read all your responses I decided that if indeed it did exist there was the potential for unpleasant outcomes. I have just returned from a shopping trip with a 2TB WD My Book Studio with Firewire 800 - which raises another question, so I will start a new thread. Regards to all Merv On 27/04/12 9:03 AM, Daniel Kerr wrote: Got in before I did Carlo :) So won't rehash what you've written,..lol :) But yes, I'd be a bit cautious. The other thing would be if you'd see any real world speed difference. The USB3 would only be running at USB2 speed as that is what the Mac would expect, so it's not going to convert to Firewire speeds, so I think you'd still be gaining USB2 speeds anyway. So no real improvement. I could be wrong here, but I also had the impression there were differing data versus power consumptions through both a USB and Firewire cable. (ie one pulls through or expects more power and data then the other). So wouldn't want to fry anything if there was. Again, I could be wrong there,... Found this info as well, which may help with it... /quote Firewire is isochronous, basically meaning that you can pump clocked data though it in real time. USB works more like TCPIP, with the data chopped up into packets and later reassembled. (Thus, at a minimum, you have latency, that is, the wait for the data to be put back together.) Second, the Firewire protocol allows more direct address to memory (including mass storage) with minimal intervention of the CPU. /end quote I can't lay my hands on the other info I thought I had and Siri can only do so much when driving,..lol ;) Kind regards Daniel Sent from my iPhone 4s --- Daniel Kerr MacWizardry Phone: 0414 795 960 Email:daniel AT macwizardry.com.au Web:http://www.macwizardry.com.au **For everything Macintosh** On 27/04/2012, at 8:46 AM, cm wrote: Hi Merv and Peter, I would be wary of those connectors. Notice they are all on resale sites, none are manufacturer sales. They could be fakes. As I said earlier, I don't believe it is possible to convert USB to Firewire with just a simple pin-to-pin cable. USB used the PC as the bus master whereas Firewire is a true peer-to-peer connection and required handshaking signals back from the disk drive. Cheers, Carlo On 27/04/2012, at 7:10 , Peter Sealy wrote: I thought I had a vague memory (at my age all memories are vague) of seeing USB to Firewire converters somewhere. So I did a quick Google search and came up with these. I have not looked in depth at any of them and have not explored any further but the Google search will surely find more info. http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_kw=USB+A+MALE+TO+IEEE1394+4+PIN+Firewire+ADAPTER+CONVERTER http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER®-Travel-Firewire-Cable-Adapters/dp/B00354MVP0 http://www.ask.com/questions-about/Firewire-USB-Converter http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-firewire-to-usb-adapter.htm http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/usb-to-firewire-converter.html Search Google : convert usb to firewire adapter HTH .. Peter Sealy Thurgoona AUSTRALIA She was only a whiskey maker, but he loved her still. On 26/04/2012, at 11:28 PM, Merv Bond wrote: I have been looking on the net at cables, converters and hubs that boast connections between USB and firewire. My search is based on wishing to connect an external HD with USB3 sockets to my iMac which has a Firewire800 socket. Has anyone used such a cable and if so is the performance of a quality that is useful? Can a bootable external HD be achieved with such a device? Merv -- The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of Man') -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives -http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines -http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe -http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives -http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines -http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe -http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives -http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines -http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe -http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives -http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines -http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe -http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The whole psychology of modern
Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800
I have been looking on the net at cables, converters and hubs that boast connections between USB and firewire. My search is based on wishing to connect an external HD with USB3 sockets to my iMac which has a Firewire800 socket. Has anyone used such a cable and if so is the performance of a quality that is useful? Can a bootable external HD be achieved with such a device? Merv -- The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of Man') -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800
Hi Merv, As far as I know USB and firewire are incompatible formats. Unless there is some sort of fancy conversion hub involved (that I am not aware of) no cable will be able to connect the two. Cheers, Carlo On 26/04/2012, at 21:28 , Merv Bond wrote: I have been looking on the net at cables, converters and hubs that boast connections between USB and firewire. My search is based on wishing to connect an external HD with USB3 sockets to my iMac which has a Firewire800 socket. Has anyone used such a cable and if so is the performance of a quality that is useful? Can a bootable external HD be achieved with such a device? Merv -- The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of Man') -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800
Hello Merv .. for cables connectors go to www.cablechick.com.au On 26/04/2012, at 9:28 PM, Merv Bond wrote: I have been looking on the net at cables, converters and hubs that boast connections between USB and firewire. My search is based on wishing to connect an external HD with USB3 sockets to my iMac which has a Firewire800 socket. Has anyone used such a cable and if so is the performance of a quality that is useful? Can a bootable external HD be achieved with such a device? Merv -- The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of Man') -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug Regards, Stephen Chape -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800
Hi Merv As others have mentioned there is no way to convert from USB to Firewire I'm afraid. Different standards etc. So a USB3 drive will only run at USB2 speed on a Mac (well most of them). Kind regards Daniel --- Daniel Kerr MacWizardry Phone: 0414 795 960 Email: daniel AT macwizardry.com.au Web: http://www.macwizardry.com.au **For everything Macintosh** On 26/04/2012, at 9:28 PM, Merv Bond wrote: I have been looking on the net at cables, converters and hubs that boast connections between USB and firewire. My search is based on wishing to connect an external HD with USB3 sockets to my iMac which has a Firewire800 socket. Has anyone used such a cable and if so is the performance of a quality that is useful? Can a bootable external HD be achieved with such a device? Merv -- The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of Man') -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800
Hi Merv and Peter, I would be wary of those connectors. Notice they are all on resale sites, none are manufacturer sales. They could be fakes. As I said earlier, I don't believe it is possible to convert USB to Firewire with just a simple pin-to-pin cable. USB used the PC as the bus master whereas Firewire is a true peer-to-peer connection and required handshaking signals back from the disk drive. Cheers, Carlo On 27/04/2012, at 7:10 , Peter Sealy wrote: I thought I had a vague memory (at my age all memories are vague) of seeing USB to Firewire converters somewhere. So I did a quick Google search and came up with these. I have not looked in depth at any of them and have not explored any further but the Google search will surely find more info. http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_kw=USB+A+MALE+TO+IEEE1394+4+PIN+Firewire+ADAPTER+CONVERTER http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER®-Travel-Firewire-Cable-Adapters/dp/B00354MVP0 http://www.ask.com/questions-about/Firewire-USB-Converter http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-firewire-to-usb-adapter.htm http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/usb-to-firewire-converter.html Search Google : convert usb to firewire adapter HTH .. Peter Sealy Thurgoona AUSTRALIA She was only a whiskey maker, but he loved her still. On 26/04/2012, at 11:28 PM, Merv Bond wrote: I have been looking on the net at cables, converters and hubs that boast connections between USB and firewire. My search is based on wishing to connect an external HD with USB3 sockets to my iMac which has a Firewire800 socket. Has anyone used such a cable and if so is the performance of a quality that is useful? Can a bootable external HD be achieved with such a device? Merv -- The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of Man') -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800
Got in before I did Carlo :) So won't rehash what you've written,..lol :) But yes, I'd be a bit cautious. The other thing would be if you'd see any real world speed difference. The USB3 would only be running at USB2 speed as that is what the Mac would expect, so it's not going to convert to Firewire speeds, so I think you'd still be gaining USB2 speeds anyway. So no real improvement. I could be wrong here, but I also had the impression there were differing data versus power consumptions through both a USB and Firewire cable. (ie one pulls through or expects more power and data then the other). So wouldn't want to fry anything if there was. Again, I could be wrong there,... Found this info as well, which may help with it... /quote Firewire is isochronous, basically meaning that you can pump clocked data though it in real time. USB works more like TCPIP, with the data chopped up into packets and later reassembled. (Thus, at a minimum, you have latency, that is, the wait for the data to be put back together.) Second, the Firewire protocol allows more direct address to memory (including mass storage) with minimal intervention of the CPU. /end quote I can't lay my hands on the other info I thought I had and Siri can only do so much when driving,..lol ;) Kind regards Daniel Sent from my iPhone 4s --- Daniel Kerr MacWizardry Phone: 0414 795 960 Email: daniel AT macwizardry.com.au Web: http://www.macwizardry.com.au **For everything Macintosh** On 27/04/2012, at 8:46 AM, cm wrote: Hi Merv and Peter, I would be wary of those connectors. Notice they are all on resale sites, none are manufacturer sales. They could be fakes. As I said earlier, I don't believe it is possible to convert USB to Firewire with just a simple pin-to-pin cable. USB used the PC as the bus master whereas Firewire is a true peer-to-peer connection and required handshaking signals back from the disk drive. Cheers, Carlo On 27/04/2012, at 7:10 , Peter Sealy wrote: I thought I had a vague memory (at my age all memories are vague) of seeing USB to Firewire converters somewhere. So I did a quick Google search and came up with these. I have not looked in depth at any of them and have not explored any further but the Google search will surely find more info. http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_kw=USB+A+MALE+TO+IEEE1394+4+PIN+Firewire+ADAPTER+CONVERTER http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER®-Travel-Firewire-Cable-Adapters/dp/B00354MVP0 http://www.ask.com/questions-about/Firewire-USB-Converter http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-firewire-to-usb-adapter.htm http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/usb-to-firewire-converter.html Search Google : convert usb to firewire adapter HTH .. Peter Sealy Thurgoona AUSTRALIA She was only a whiskey maker, but he loved her still. On 26/04/2012, at 11:28 PM, Merv Bond wrote: I have been looking on the net at cables, converters and hubs that boast connections between USB and firewire. My search is based on wishing to connect an external HD with USB3 sockets to my iMac which has a Firewire800 socket. Has anyone used such a cable and if so is the performance of a quality that is useful? Can a bootable external HD be achieved with such a device? Merv -- The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of Man') -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
RE: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800
The power issue is the one I would be the most cautious with, USB is 5 v or less, but firewire can be up to 40 V ( different ampages as well and I would be very worried as the pins for power would be different as well) Hugh Subject: Re: Cables: USB 3 - Firewire800 From: wa...@macwizardry.com.au Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:03:27 +0800 To: wamug@wamug.org.au Got in before I did Carlo :) So won't rehash what you've written,..lol :) But yes, I'd be a bit cautious. The other thing would be if you'd see any real world speed difference. The USB3 would only be running at USB2 speed as that is what the Mac would expect, so it's not going to convert to Firewire speeds, so I think you'd still be gaining USB2 speeds anyway. So no real improvement. I could be wrong here, but I also had the impression there were differing data versus power consumptions through both a USB and Firewire cable. (ie one pulls through or expects more power and data then the other). So wouldn't want to fry anything if there was. Again, I could be wrong there,... Found this info as well, which may help with it... /quote Firewire is isochronous, basically meaning that you can pump clocked data though it in real time. USB works more like TCPIP, with the data chopped up into packets and later reassembled. (Thus, at a minimum, you have latency, that is, the wait for the data to be put back together.) Second, the Firewire protocol allows more direct address to memory (including mass storage) with minimal intervention of the CPU. /end quote I can't lay my hands on the other info I thought I had and Siri can only do so much when driving,..lol ;) Kind regards Daniel Sent from my iPhone 4s --- Daniel Kerr MacWizardry Phone: 0414 795 960 Email: daniel AT macwizardry.com.au Web: http://www.macwizardry.com.au **For everything Macintosh** On 27/04/2012, at 8:46 AM, cm wrote: Hi Merv and Peter, I would be wary of those connectors. Notice they are all on resale sites, none are manufacturer sales. They could be fakes. As I said earlier, I don't believe it is possible to convert USB to Firewire with just a simple pin-to-pin cable. USB used the PC as the bus master whereas Firewire is a true peer-to-peer connection and required handshaking signals back from the disk drive. Cheers, Carlo On 27/04/2012, at 7:10 , Peter Sealy wrote: I thought I had a vague memory (at my age all memories are vague) of seeing USB to Firewire converters somewhere. So I did a quick Google search and came up with these. I have not looked in depth at any of them and have not explored any further but the Google search will surely find more info. http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_kw=USB+A+MALE+TO+IEEE1394+4+PIN+Firewire+ADAPTER+CONVERTER http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER®-Travel-Firewire-Cable-Adapters/dp/B00354MVP0 http://www.ask.com/questions-about/Firewire-USB-Converter http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-firewire-to-usb-adapter.htm http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/usb-to-firewire-converter.html Search Google : convert usb to firewire adapter HTH .. Peter Sealy Thurgoona AUSTRALIA She was only a whiskey maker, but he loved her still. On 26/04/2012, at 11:28 PM, Merv Bond wrote: I have been looking on the net at cables, converters and hubs that boast connections between USB and firewire. My search is based on wishing to connect an external HD with USB3 sockets to my iMac which has a Firewire800 socket. Has anyone used such a cable and if so is the performance of a quality that is useful? Can a bootable external HD be achieved with such a device? Merv -- The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of Man') -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
