Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Zarel zare...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, dev list and/or staff forums (This message has been sent out to both). I have several proposals for changes. I have no objections to any of them. Getting a more prominent Downloads link on the front page would be a huge improvement. - Per ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
Hi Zarel, hi list! Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 02:08:15 schrieb Zarel: - The site logo in the upper left should be updated to be inline with the new Warzone logo. [...] Agreed. - The Development tab should be removed, and the Trac tab should be renamed Development. [...] http://developer.wz2100.net/ starts with bug reports. For a general development introductory page this might not be the best choice. I would put it more towards Programming, and maybe even dedicate an own page to it. - Reason: The introductory page should direct to the right documentation. The chunk of text at the beginning draws more attention than necessary. Apart from that: Agreed. PS: Is it possible to improve the CSS of http://developer.wz2100.net/? I like the one of http://wz2100.net/ a lot more, if we are going to use the site not exclusively for technical documentation. - It might help to add a Download tab between FAQ and User Guide. - The Blog _really_ isn't updated enough for its entire own tab. [...] Agreed. - I believe the Warzone Guide is complete enough that it can directly replace the User Guide tab. I would prefer to have such stuff in the Wiki. - Reason: Ease of editing. If that's infeasible, at least make sure it's on the same server (make wz2100.net a mirror using rsync, for example) and stays in line with the current layout/style. (Use the same (links, not copies) CSS files.) - Reason1: I would not want to loose any content if someone of us gets lost. Thus a server which is kind of sure not to vanish, and where multiple persons can get backups in emergency cases. - Reason2: One style for the page just looks better. In addition http://guide.wz2100.net/ is not an introductory page like http://wz2100.net/user-guide is. http://guide.wz2100.net/intro comes closes, though it is not the frontpage. It also has style issues: - Starts with a *huge* flash box, which makes the page look almost empty on first sight for me. - The Introduction section should be merged into the http://wz2100.net/ frontpage if necessary. In this location it seems like duplication. - Installing mentions compilation instructions. I'd prefer a link to the Wiki instead. - The Documents Project finds no mention at all. - There is no hint to the Development section. - Contact information (better: a link to them) is lacking. - The navigation panel on the right is not immediately noticed as such. In general I would prefer a more textual page with less markup. (Markup is like makeup: Best effects are achieved if applied decent.) Means: In-text links, headings should not detract from the content, not too much colour which could draw attention from the important parts, etc. And get that flash thing away from the start of the page. That said, http://wz2100.net/user-guide also has suboptimal style. The opening paragraph mentions the FAQ, which is never mentioned later. The opening paragraph should just be an introduction and summary, while the important questions should be placed more prominently in the subsections. Let's rename our project from Warzone 2100 Resurrection Project to Warzone 2100 Project (and the abbreviation from WRP to WZP). Even though I do not like name changes, those 6 reasons got me convinced. Kind regards, Dennis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:21 AM, Dennis Schriddedevuran...@gmx.net wrote: Hi Zarel, hi list! Ello. http://developer.wz2100.net/ starts with bug reports. For a general development introductory page this might not be the best choice. I would put it more towards Programming, and maybe even dedicate an own page to it. - Reason: The introductory page should direct to the right documentation. The chunk of text at the beginning draws more attention than necessary. Apart from that: Agreed. I agree that it's not perfect, but I'm at a loss for further improvement, and I feel like I'd lose information from it if I rewrote it entirely. Feel free to make whatever changes you see fit (it is a wiki, after all). PS: Is it possible to improve the CSS of http://developer.wz2100.net/? I like the one of http://wz2100.net/ a lot more, if we are going to use the site not exclusively for technical documentation. The one of wz2100.net is missing a lot of the CSS that developer.wz2100.net has. I had to argue with Giel for a while to get monospaced fonts the right size, and right now superscripts still do not render correctly (compare http://wz2100.net/download with http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/Download ). It also doesn't render indentation properly (compare http://wz2100.net/ with http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/Website/Frontpage ). Overall, it's missing a lot of CSS that's probably used in the wiki. While I agree that what it does implement, it implements better, but we should probably duplicate all the features of the current CSS file first. On the subject of CSS, the forum CSS sometimes makes links invisible until a user mouses over them (limited testing seems to show this occurs only on unvisited links to URLs within the wz2100.net domain) - this should be fixed. I would prefer to have such stuff in the Wiki. - Reason: Ease of editing. Infeasible, because it uses a ton of charts that are formatted in ways that can't be done on the wiki (the pages are stored in raw HTML). Plus, many of those charts are generated on-the-fly, and it would take lots of work to change the wiki on-the-fly. Plus, the URLs wouldn't look nearly as nice. Plus, wikis in general impose limitations that simply don't work in a guide. If that's infeasible, at least make sure it's on the same server (make wz2100.net a mirror using rsync, for example) and stays in line with the current layout/style. (Use the same (links, not copies) CSS files.) Ever since it's been moved to guide.wz2100.net, it's been on the same server. I would allow any user to edit the Guide pages, however Kamaze isn't letting me access the user database, so I can't identify users to allow them access. Currently I just give access to nearly any user who asks for it. Using the current layout/style is a bit more complicated. I can duplicate the _current_ style, and use its stylesheet in addition to my own, but I can't guarantee that it would be updated when the main site's layout is updated (that would be up to Kamaze). In addition http://guide.wz2100.net/ is not an introductory page like http://wz2100.net/user-guide is. http://guide.wz2100.net/intro comes closes, though it is not the frontpage. Well, I'm not sure an intro page would make a good home page. A contents index with quick links to major sections makes the most sense to me. More suggestions along these lines would be nice. It also has style issues: - Starts with a *huge* flash box, which makes the page look almost empty on first sight for me. Well, the video _is_ a good introduction. And it's only 640x480. I guess I could use the 320x240 one again. - The Introduction section should be merged into the http://wz2100.net/ frontpage if necessary. In this location it seems like duplication. Agreed. - Installing mentions compilation instructions. I'd prefer a link to the Wiki instead. It _does_ link to the wiki. It just also provides basic compilation instructions. I believe this part was lifted from the Docs Project - in fact, the entire introduction is a rewrite of the introduction in the Docs Project. - The Documents Project finds no mention at all. The Documents Project is nearly completely written about the 1.10 version. I've moved nearly all the information relevant to 2.2 into the Guide itself. - There is no hint to the Development section. Hint? If you mean link, there's a link to the development section on the home page. - Contact information (better: a link to them) is lacking. Can be added. - The navigation panel on the right is not immediately noticed as such. ...? What navigation panel on the right? There's a navigation panel on the left, but I'm not entirely sure how you want it to be more noticeable. In general I would prefer a more textual page with less markup. (Markup is like makeup: Best effects are achieved if applied decent.) Text is hard to read - users tend to skip over it entirely. The list of links on the home page isn't much better, but
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 11:08:32 schrieb Zarel: On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:21 AM, Dennis Schridde wrote: http://developer.wz2100.net/ starts with bug reports. For a general development introductory page this might not be the best choice. I would put it more towards Programming, and maybe even dedicate an own page to it. - Reason: The introductory page should direct to the right documentation. The chunk of text at the beginning draws more attention than necessary. Apart from that: Agreed. I agree that it's not perfect, but I'm at a loss for further improvement, and I feel like I'd lose information from it if I rewrote it entirely. Feel free to make whatever changes you see fit (it is a wiki, after all). As I said: Put the bug-reporting part a little bit more down (maybe also link to another page) and it is perfect. PS: Is it possible to improve the CSS of http://developer.wz2100.net/? I like the one of http://wz2100.net/ a lot more, if we are going to use the site not exclusively for technical documentation. [...] Overall, it's missing a lot of CSS that's probably used in the wiki. While I agree that what it does implement, it implements better, but we should probably duplicate all the features of the current CSS file first. (see below) If that's infeasible, at least make sure it's on the same server (make wz2100.net a mirror using rsync, for example) and stays in line with the current layout/style. (Use the same (links, not copies) CSS files.) Ever since it's been moved to guide.wz2100.net, it's been on the same server. Sorry, I was misinformed. I still remembered the days when it was on an own site, so I assumed just the guide.wz2100.net alias is new. I would allow any user to edit the Guide pages, however Kamaze isn't letting me access the user database, so I can't identify users to allow them access. Understandable. If understood Kamaze right his main concern is that no one should be able to read the DB, which would not happen with an auth-service. So: Does wz2100.net have no kind of authentication/authorisation service? (I am not speaking of Kerberos here... LDAP can afaik provide authentication, then there is saslauthd, dovecot-auth, and whatnot. Thus I would assume there is something that all of phpbb, Trac and whatever you are using support.) Currently I just give access to nearly any user who asks for it. Using the current layout/style is a bit more complicated. I can duplicate the _current_ style, and use its stylesheet in addition to my own, but I can't guarantee that it would be updated when the main site's layout is updated (that would be up to Kamaze). I was more thinking of a collaboration. ;) I assume that the Trac stylesheet provides formatting which is not relevant to your page, and you might need some rules in addition to that. The trick is to take the CSS, enhance it, and put it back on (dev.)wz2100.net. In addition http://guide.wz2100.net/ is not an introductory page like http://wz2100.net/user-guide is. http://guide.wz2100.net/intro comes closes, though it is not the frontpage. Well, I'm not sure an intro page would make a good home page. A contents index with quick links to major sections makes the most sense to me. More suggestions along these lines would be nice. Point is that if the page becomes the new User Guide section of the website, it is no longer a home page, but a sub page. Further the User Guide page on w.n was meant to give the user an overview over the user-relevant aspect of the website. The explanatory and introducing part gets entirely lost in a link list as http://guide.wz2100.net/ is. It also has style issues: - Starts with a *huge* flash box, which makes the page look almost empty on first sight for me. Well, the video _is_ a good introduction. And it's only 640x480. If you take desktop-panel, window-decorations, menubar, toolbar, addressbar, bookmarkbar, statusbar, your main-navigation, the headings and that flash blob together, this leaves about 2cm for actual text, of which 100% is the standard 1000-times-read Warzone 2100 description. I do not say you shall remove that video. But put it into a place where it does not distract so much from the actual content. XHTML+CSS and Web 2.0 techniques i.e. allow for an expand or tell me the story button. And if you dislike that, the flash monster is still better placed below the actual introduction. What I like about http://wz2100.net/user-guide is that on one screen and in one sight you get a quick overview in very short texts over all the relevant section of the website. - Installing mentions compilation instructions. I'd prefer a link to the Wiki instead. It _does_ link to the wiki. It just also provides basic compilation instructions. I noticed that it does. But the commandline code would tell me at first: Ough, skip over this section, it's not what I want. My point is: Most people view (especially) websites
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
Zarel wrote: lots of good reasons for good changes Fine with me. - Gerard ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
+1 for the website changes, I'm impartial to the renaming. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
We could/should do a lot of work to improve the website. However, can we delay this for around 3 weeks? In exactly 3 weeks I have to write the last exam. Until then, I don't want to fill my brain with XHTML/CSS pain and such things. Best regards, Kamaze Zarel schrieb: Hey, dev list and/or staff forums (This message has been sent out to both). I have several proposals for changes. First, the minor changes: - The site logo in the upper left should be updated to be inline with the new Warzone logo. It's the only place the old logo still appears. A new one, correctly sized, can be found here: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=3t=2990p=29583#p29583 - The Development tab should be removed, and the Trac tab should be renamed Development. I've already gone and merged the information from Development into WikiStart page, and we do not need that many tabs in the header. - It might help to add a Download tab between FAQ and User Guide. - The Blog _really_ isn't updated enough for its entire own tab. We mention new blog posts on the home page; I think that's enough. I think we should, however, find some way to merge the blog and the news system. - I believe the Warzone Guide is complete enough that it can directly replace the User Guide tab (so that the tab button takes users directly there). If there's a thematic issue, I can re-layout the Guide to match the current Warzone site. I can also add whatever information currently on the User Guide page to the Guide, if requested. Those changes should bring the Warzone site tabs to: Home | Download | FAQ | User Guide | Forums | Development Six tabs - not ideal, but better than the seven we currently have. And now, the major proposed change: Let's rename our project from Warzone 2100 Resurrection Project to Warzone 2100 Project (and the abbreviation from WRP to WZP). Reasons include: 1. At this point, after five years, there are no other Warzone 2100 projects - the only other one (Warzone 2200) is dead and never released anything at all, no binaries, not even any source. We are _the_ undisputed Warzone Project. 2. There's no confusion that we are affiliated with Pumpkin - Pumpkin's been gone for ages - anyone who has heard of the old Warzone and could potentially confuse us would know that. And if they don't, there's still the Project in there for disambiguation. 3. We are no longer resurrecting anything at this point. We have _succeeded_ in resurrecting Warzone and making a great cross-platform game out of it. Now, all we're doing is continuing the development of our successful project. We can signify this achievement by removing the word Resurrection from our name. 4. Resurrection is confusing to users who do not know our history. And I don't think it's important for your average Warzone to know the entire history of the project, however amazing that is. 5. New users (who have never heard of Warzone before) who visit the site may erroneously guess from the title that the game has something to do with resurrection. Project, on the other hand, leads users to the right direction for what the campaign is about. 6. It's much shorter. So, what does everyone think? I would _really_ like your feedback on these. -Zarel ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Zarel wrote: Let's rename our project from Warzone 2100 Resurrection Project to Warzone 2100 Project (and the abbreviation from WRP to WZP). The reasons are convincing. Agreed. - - Kreuvf -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKORv64y86f1GXLDwRAr8rAJ9KygG7HImK8smMiCaUQdEQEIpwDgCfQeEc /wUwfX9JVschRAnd3Wxd+UU= =A/9H -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Kamazefearthec...@gmail.com wrote: We could/should do a lot of work to improve the website. However, can we delay this for around 3 weeks? In exactly 3 weeks I have to write the last exam. Until then, I don't want to fill my brain with XHTML/CSS pain and such things. Until then, can we make the simpler suggested changes? - Replace http://static.wz2100.net/img/logo.png with the one found here: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=3t=2990p=29583#p29583 - Remove the Development and Blog tabs, rename Trac to Development, and add a tab Download between Home and FAQ. These shouldn't require XHTML/CSS pain. ;) -Zarel ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
On 6/16/09, Zarel zarelxx...@gmail.com wrote: - The site logo - The Development tab should be removed, and the Trac tab should be renamed Development. - It might help to add a Download tab between FAQ and User Guide. - The Blog _really_ isn't updated enough for its entire own tab. works for me-- but you have to convince Kamaze, since, I think he is the only one that can make the changes. - I believe the Warzone Guide is complete enough that it can directly replace the User Guide tab (so that the tab button takes users directly there). If there's a thematic issue, I can re-layout the Guide to match the current Warzone site. I can also add whatever information currently on the User Guide page to the Guide, if requested. I don't really mind one way or the other, if you redo it, it would fit in with the theme, but if the theme changes again, then what? Let's rename our project from Warzone 2100 Resurrection Project to Warzone 2100 Project (and the abbreviation from WRP to WZP). Reasons include: I don't need reasons, I never liked 'WRP', and have expressed my feelings on this subject many times over my tenure of being associated with this project. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Project rename, website changes
whatever... just dont be blowing it all out of proportion - and how soon is the next release?? better a release than worrying about little stuff... On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:42 PM, bugs buggybuginato...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/16/09, Zarel zarelxx...@gmail.com wrote: - The site logo - The Development tab should be removed, and the Trac tab should be renamed Development. - It might help to add a Download tab between FAQ and User Guide. - The Blog _really_ isn't updated enough for its entire own tab. works for me-- but you have to convince Kamaze, since, I think he is the only one that can make the changes. - I believe the Warzone Guide is complete enough that it can directly replace the User Guide tab (so that the tab button takes users directly there). If there's a thematic issue, I can re-layout the Guide to match the current Warzone site. I can also add whatever information currently on the User Guide page to the Guide, if requested. I don't really mind one way or the other, if you redo it, it would fit in with the theme, but if the theme changes again, then what? Let's rename our project from Warzone 2100 Resurrection Project to Warzone 2100 Project (and the abbreviation from WRP to WZP). Reasons include: I don't need reasons, I never liked 'WRP', and have expressed my feelings on this subject many times over my tenure of being associated with this project. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
