Re: [Warzone-dev] Getting this project back on its knees
On Thursday, 20 October 2005 at 1:12, Qamly wrote: On 10/19/05, Christian Ohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday, 19 October 2005 at 1:30, Qamly wrote: On 10/11/05, Per Inge Mathisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/11/05, Christian Ohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of access rights, for SVN at least, that is given to people Now you speak as if you are leading the project. Hmm.. Mind you, I'm OK with that, if you want to do it. But I was under the impression nobody wanted to do it, and I think it needs to be done (at least until a few guidelines are established). who can show they can do good patches, we can't just give SVN access to everyone who asks without knowing what they will do. But we can give access to people that have sent useful patches, and then just trust them not to misuse their access. If you can't trust people to do that, why even make them project members? Having access control is a form of control for me (something I was accused of wanting to exert). Yes, I said if they have good patches, they should get access to svn. However, granting anyone access rights on trivial patches shouldn't be done IMO. I am in the side of prove to us that you can do a somewhat good job with the patches, then they should ask for access, and then the team member decide. That's what I meant - not SVN access for everyone who sends one patch. What's wrong with removing those who don't do anything? If they want to, they can be readded easily. The only thing wrong is some people will take that the wrong way. I's aks them beforehand - like Hey, you are a member of the Berlios project, but haven't done anything there lately. As we are currently trimming the memberlist (it led some people to believe that we don't get done a lot for having 17 members), can we remove you, if you don't want to work on warzone in the near future? If you want to work on it later, just ask us to readd you. Yes, we need more people to do action (ie code/test/gfx work) than Just to reiterate: That's what I think the current course won't bring, and my proposed changes will. And I hope you are wrong. It seems things have started to change (and that's really all I wanted to achieve). ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@lists.berlios.de http://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Getting this project back on its knees
On Wednesday, 19 October 2005 at 1:24, Qamly wrote: On 10/16/05, Rod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Ohm wrote: On Thursday, 13 October 2005 at 6:33, Rod wrote: Sure this project needs organisation, but it needs motivated contributors first. But how do you get motivated contributors, if there is no organisation? For example, there was a Daniel Herring who sent two patches (or two variations of one), but noone has answered him. Do you think he will send more patches? I sent him an answer. Unfortunately, I'm no more a motivated contributor. And I'm not the only one. Maybe a fork would save the project. Best regards, Rod. Hey Rod...and what was the answer? Was his patch/info/advice right or wrong? I'd like to know that as well. I think visibility is an important thing in an open project. So an answer only to the person is bad, because then others will think there wasn't one, and even the other project members won't know it. Oh no.. he said the F word! ;) Yeah, the F word... I have considered forking, but I don't think it will work. Because there was nobody who said If you fork, I'm with you. And all it'll do is to divide resources further. Christian ,I don't know if you noticed or even read my last mailing but I am sure by the time you read this that you will know that I was AFK for awhile. Which is why you will see a avalanche of traffic on the mailing list. :D This is the main reason why I haven't responded to anyone. I got tons of mail I have to reply to. I guess we could I know you were away. The problem is, your absence brought the project down to a halt, and that shouldn't happen. -- And now, the Bing Crosby show, brought to you by the makers of Ex-Lax. ... a brief pause, and then Bing! ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@lists.berlios.de http://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Getting this project back on its knees
On Wednesday, 19 October 2005 at 1:25, Qamly wrote: On 10/15/05, Dennis Schridde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So an important thing that needs to be done/changes is following (IMO): _Decide_ on administrative changes. Get someone to actually _do_ it. Well, not to sound harsh, but duh! That *IS* the problem. We DONT have enough people actually DOING things, yet we have allot of people doing the 'blah blah' thing. (which I say again, it can be a good or bad 'blah blah') But administrative things are important, and a way of doing things. The problem isn't the 'blah blah'. The problem is that people here just state their views, and there is no working towards a resolution, but someone gets fed up with it and says Hey, I'm tired of this, everyone just get back coding! Here is a little example. While in IRC, Rodzilla and I were chatting about improving the way WZ handled the data set, and we felt it was much more difficult than it had to be. There was no easy way to change the data without recompiling the data again and again to make new wdgs. Needless to say, we both thought it was a good idea to come out with something different. This was the start of the .wz package. Was I asked to do this? No. I saw a NEED to do it, and set out to do it. I did post about it in the forums mailing list, and had the usual feedback, which wasn't that great mind you. Well, after spending some time on WDG format, I first wrote a decompiler that would decompile everything in the wdg file. Not just what wdg explorer did, I mean everything. Did I ask Rodzilla or anyone else if I should make this decompiler? Did I post about this on the mailing list? No. I just DID it. Then came the actual loading routines, once that was done, I had to make sure that all the decompiled wdg files worked OK. Coyote was the ONLY one that wanted to help in this task during the beta stage. The problem is that your work wasn't done publicly. I bet if you just made a branch for your work, you'd have gotten more reactions. After that was done, next task was to get it to work on linux, after a few talks with Rodzilla about this, I finally got that out of the way, and THEN I submitted it to SVN. ... instead of starting your work in SVN, where everyone can see and test it. Now, I didn't have any documentation, but I still did it anyway. Rodzilla didn't have any documentation when he first did the openGL routines, but he still did it anyway. Documentation while it may have helped wasn't really needed, if you are motivated to do something, you do it, you don't find excuses instead. I don't think code documentation is a necessity. It's nice to have (and a general overview of the code base (what is done where) could make it easier for newcomers to find their way through the code), but what's really important is documentation for end users. And that's one thing people don't do here: change the documentation according to their changes to the code. -- rugged, adj.: Too heavy to lift. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@lists.berlios.de http://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] Getting this project back on its knees
On 10/19/05, Christian Ohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday, 19 October 2005 at 1:30, Qamly wrote: On 10/11/05, Per Inge Mathisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/11/05, Christian Ohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of access rights, for SVN at least, that is given to people Now you speak as if you are leading the project. Hmm.. who can show they can do good patches, we can't just give SVN access to everyone who asks without knowing what they will do. But we can give access to people that have sent useful patches, and then just trust them not to misuse their access. If you can't trust people to do that, why even make them project members? Having access control is a form of control for me (something I was accused of wanting to exert). Yes, I said if they have good patches, they should get access to svn. However, granting anyone access rights on trivial patches shouldn't be done IMO. I am in the side of prove to us that you can do a somewhat good job with the patches, then they should ask for access, and then the team member decide. What's wrong with removing those who don't do anything? If they want to, they can be readded easily. The only thing wrong is some people will take that the wrong way. Yes, we need more people to do action (ie code/test/gfx work) than Just to reiterate: That's what I think the current course won't bring, and my proposed changes will. And I hope you are wrong. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@lists.berlios.de http://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/warzone-dev
