[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

Peter Hutterer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |INVALID

--- Comment #25 from Peter Hutterer  ---
closing after silence for 2 months

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #24 from Peter Hutterer  ---
ping? bug 94236 has been merged, so you can just test git master now

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571
Bug 100571 depends on bug 94236, which changed state.

Bug 94236 Summary: Palm detection: ignore moves over a pressure threshold
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94236

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

Peter Hutterer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||94236
 Status|ASSIGNED|NEEDINFO

--- Comment #23 from Peter Hutterer  ---
Give the branch in bug 94236 a try please. You may need a custom threshold but
hopefully that should help a lot with this bug.


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94236
[Bug 94236] Palm detection: ignore moves over a pressure threshold
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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #22 from Peter Hutterer  ---
fwiw, the timeout is currently 500ms (provided you pressed at least two
non-modifier keys). Any touch that starts before the last key press is ignored,
i.e. if you come to rest your palm on the keyboard while typing, that touch is
ignored. Touches that start *after* the last key press however are released
once the timeout expires, to avoid the touchpad not reacting.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #21 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
Additionally I've noticed the trackpad input is honored an impractically short
time after a key is pressed. So if I'm typing, and just pause the slightest
amount within a word, suddenly the trackpad is active and highlights a bunch of
text.

What's more realistic is what's the fastest practical time from key release to
getting an index finger on the track pad. That time is maybe 0.7s. But for sure
I see unprompted selection happening in between key strokes. So the "inactive
trackpad while typing" rule is way too deferential to the trackpad.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #20 from Peter Hutterer  ---
Ok, there may be something we can do with the pressure, anything above ~75 can
be interpreted as palm. That may help, though there are enough palm events with
low pressure data so it's not a guarantee.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #19 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
Created attachment 131589
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=131589=edit
palmtouch gnuplot screenshot

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #18 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
Created attachment 131588
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=131588=edit
normal tap gnuplot screenshot

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #16 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
Created attachment 131586
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=131586=edit
normal tap pressure stats

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #15 from Peter Hutterer  ---
I understand that it's hard to remember what exactly you did, but it's even
harder to debug something without that information. The attachments look like
pretty normal touches and they *should* be filtered by the disable-while-typing
code but it's unclear why not. Maybe run libinput-debug-events --verbose on the
side and look for events of "event4  - palm: keyboard timeout". If they happen
just before your touch and you're typing slow enough, then this can cause the
effects you're seeing.

I notice the pressure range is quite high, so this bug may be a candidate for
bug 94236. Read through
https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/touchpad_pressure.html and
try to gauge the pressure ranges for your finger during normal use and then
again while you're typing. see if there's a reliable threshold where we can
identify a palm.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

Peter Hutterer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|ASSIGNED

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #14 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
Created attachment 131417
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=131417=edit
scroll.evemu.2017-05-19 three recordings

I have "sudo evemu-record --autostart=3 /dev/input/event5 scroll.evemu" running
in a shell, and in another I have "watch ls -l" on the dir containing these
files as they're created.

When I'm typing, I have absolutely no ability to record in my mind what I'm
doing mechanically with my fingers. Once these files appear, I try to replay
history in my mind, did I intentionally use the trackpad? Did I have to move
the cursor somewhere? I have literally no idea, it's simply not how my mind
works.

So these three events? Are they intentional? Or are they stray palm touches?
I'm pretty sure they're stray palm touches because at the time I was typing I
had no reason to move the cursor positioning. But I can't tell you with any
certainty because I have zero mechanical memory of what I was doing; only the
thought of what I was writing. It's probably the same thing as having a
conversation with someone, and then asking them about the position of their
tongue 5 seconds ago. They'd say, what? And then they'd have to think about
what they were saying and what the position their tongue was in, and then
they'd forget the whole thing. There's just no awareness of the mechanics as
it's happening.

And I have no ideas how to increase the certainty other than setting up a video
camera to simultaneously record my hands typing as well as the screen with
"watch ls -l" running, and match files to movements, but I have no way of doing
that.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #13 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
Created attachment 131416
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=131416=edit
scroll.evemu.2017-05-19-10:14:27

This event did not result in any kind of visible problem, but happened while I
was typing so I'd call it a "latent unintended event". I think the central
problem is that while I'm typing, the trackpad can accept input and if it's a
particularly erratic input it ends up selecting a bunch of text which I then
type over.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #12 from Peter Hutterer  ---
ping?

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #11 from Peter Hutterer  ---
that makes it too hard to debug then. I can't see your finger in the
recordings, only the data the touchpad detects so it's hard to tell which one
is a misdetection and which one isn't. Please attach an event recording without
any finger data, palm data only.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #10 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
There are probably valid finger touches as well as palm.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #5 from Peter Hutterer  ---
whoah, we're crossing streams here :) as said in the email to the list, I need
a short recording to figure out the stray palm touches, I can't replay hours in
realtime here to find it

evemu-record has a --autorestart flag that creates a new file after X seconds
of inactivity, I suggest using that to extract a short-enough recording

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #4 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
 scroll2.evemu contains 30s of normal finger only movements

 scroll.evemu contains a few hours of real world usage which no doubt includes
stray palm touches

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

Peter Hutterer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |NEEDINFO
 CC||peter.hutte...@who-t.net

--- Comment #3 from Peter Hutterer  ---
(In reply to bugzilla from comment #1)
> Several hours worth of collection.

ran my pressure analysis scripts over it, the majority of pressure values fall
into the 24-72 range. That's the range where we detect touches, so at least the
issue isn't caused by the new pressure detection code.

(In reply to bugzilla from comment #2)
> This is a short capture, about half minute.

what am I looking at here? I looked at the pure touch output and it looks like
normal finger movement. Is this one of the accidental palm events?

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #2 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
Created attachment 130678
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=130678=edit
scroll2.evemu

This is a short capture, about half minute.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

--- Comment #1 from bugzi...@colorremedies.com ---
Created attachment 130677
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=130677=edit
scroll.evemu

Several hours worth of collection.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 100571] erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to stray palm touches

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100571

Bug ID: 100571
   Summary: erratic touchpad behavior, seems too sensitive to
stray palm touches
   Product: Wayland
   Version: unspecified
  Hardware: Other
OS: All
Status: NEW
  Severity: normal
  Priority: medium
 Component: libinput
  Assignee: wayland-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
  Reporter: bugzi...@colorremedies.com

Problem: Seems like my palms are changing cursor position while I'm typing;
more likely that I slightly pause while typing and a palm touch moves the
cursor, but I'm not really sure. Also, sometimes the in-focus app changes as if
I've clicked on another application.

Hardware:
Manufacturer: HP
Product Name: HP Spectre Notebook
SKU Number: W2K28UA#ABA
Family: 103C_5335KV G=N L=CON B=HP S=SPT 

Software:
Fedora 26, libinput 1.7.0
gnome-shell tap to click is enabled in preferences

[chris@f26h ~]$ udevadm info /dev/input/event5
P: /devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input5/event5
N: input/event5
E: DEVNAME=/dev/input/event5
E: DEVPATH=/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input5/event5
E: ID_BUS=i8042
E: ID_INPUT=1
E: ID_INPUT_HEIGHT_MM=51
E: ID_INPUT_TOUCHPAD=1
E: ID_INPUT_TOUCHPAD_INTEGRATION=internal
E: ID_INPUT_WIDTH_MM=92
E: LIBINPUT_DEVICE_GROUP=11/2/7/1b1:isa0060/serio1
E: LIBINPUT_MODEL_SYNAPTICS_SERIAL_TOUCHPAD=1
E: MAJOR=13
E: MINOR=69
E: SUBSYSTEM=input
E: USEC_INITIALIZED=3816082



$ sudo cat /sys/class/dmi/id/modalias

dmi:bvnInsyde:bvrF.31:bd02/21/2017:svnHP:pnHPSpectreNotebook:pvrType1ProductConfigId:rvnHP:rn81A0:rvr48.54:cvnHP:ct10:cvrChassisVersion:

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