Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Peter Hutterer]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 01:50:31PM +0800, Kai Hendry wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, at 12:15 PM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> > right, sorry if that wasn't clear but changing the acceleration profile
> > won't change the drift you're seeing. Completely separate bug. What it does
> > change is the speed which you labeled as "a bit too fast" in the first
> > email.
> 
> Oh, so what can I do at this point to disable my drifting trackpoint but
> still have the buttons working?

there's nothing ready-made. the solution would be to figure out the kernel
knobs and whatever else is there to fix the HW problem that we have here.
And/or hack up some custom version of libinput that ignores motion events
from that device. But something off-the-shelf - nothing, sorry.

Cheers,
   Peter
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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Kai Hendry]

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, at 12:15 PM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> right, sorry if that wasn't clear but changing the acceleration profile
> won't change the drift you're seeing. Completely separate bug. What it does
> change is the speed which you labeled as "a bit too fast" in the first
> email.

Oh, so what can I do at this point to disable my drifting trackpoint but still 
have the buttons working?
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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Peter Hutterer]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 12:04:12PM +0800, Kai Hendry wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, at 11:49 AM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> > see the libinput documentation, it's a normalised value from -1.0 (slowest) 
> > to
> > 1.0 (fastest) with 0 being the usually-default midpoint.
> 
>  [hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --set-prop 11 'libinput Accel Speed' -1
> 
> Has no impact to my drift problem. Not sure what else I can set. 

right, sorry if that wasn't clear but changing the acceleration profile
won't change the drift you're seeing. Completely separate bug. What it does
change is the speed which you labeled as "a bit too fast" in the first
email.

> "libinput Accel Speed Default" doesn't work.

the defaults are read-only property because that's all they are, defaults.

Cheers,
   Peter

> 
> [hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --set-prop 11 'libinput Accel Default' -1
> property 'libinput Accel Default' doesn't exist, you need to specify its type 
> and format
> [hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --list-props 11
> Device 'ETPS/2 Elantech TrackPoint':
> Device Enabled (140):   1
> Coordinate Transformation Matrix (142): 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 
> 0.00, 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 1.00
> libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled (275):   0
> libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled Default (276):   0
> libinput Left Handed Enabled (277): 0
> libinput Left Handed Enabled Default (278): 0
> libinput Accel Speed (279): -1.00
> libinput Accel Speed Default (280): 0.00
> libinput Accel Profiles Available (281):1, 1
> libinput Accel Profile Enabled (282):   1, 0
> libinput Accel Profile Enabled Default (283):   1, 0
> libinput Scroll Methods Available (284):0, 0, 1
> libinput Scroll Method Enabled (285):   0, 0, 1
> libinput Scroll Method Enabled Default (286):   0, 0, 1
> libinput Button Scrolling Button (287): 2
> libinput Button Scrolling Button Default (288): 2
> libinput Middle Emulation Enabled (289):0
> libinput Middle Emulation Enabled Default (290):0
> libinput Send Events Modes Available (260): 1, 0
> libinput Send Events Mode Enabled (261):0, 0
> libinput Send Events Mode Enabled Default (262):0, 0
> Device Node (263):  "/dev/input/event7"
> Device Product ID (264):2, 14
> libinput Drag Lock Buttons (291):   
> libinput Horizontal Scroll Enabled (292):   1
> [hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --set-prop 11 'libinput Accel Speed Default' -1
> X Error of failed request:  BadAccess (attempt to access private resource 
> denied)
>   Major opcode of failed request:  131 (XInputExtension)
>   Minor opcode of failed request:  57 ()
>   Serial number of failed request:  20
>   Current serial number in output stream:  21
> [hendry@t480s ~]$ sudo xinput --set-prop 11 'libinput Accel Speed Default' -1
> X Error of failed request:  BadAccess (attempt to access private resource 
> denied)
>   Major opcode of failed request:  131 (XInputExtension)
>   Minor opcode of failed request:  57 ()
>   Serial number of failed request:  20
>   Current serial number in output stream:  21
> [hendry@t480s ~]$
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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Kai Hendry]

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, at 11:49 AM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> see the libinput documentation, it's a normalised value from -1.0 (slowest) to
> 1.0 (fastest) with 0 being the usually-default midpoint.

 [hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --set-prop 11 'libinput Accel Speed' -1

Has no impact to my drift problem. Not sure what else I can set.  "libinput 
Accel Speed Default" doesn't work.

[hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --set-prop 11 'libinput Accel Default' -1
property 'libinput Accel Default' doesn't exist, you need to specify its type 
and format
[hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --list-props 11
Device 'ETPS/2 Elantech TrackPoint':
Device Enabled (140):   1
Coordinate Transformation Matrix (142): 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 
0.00, 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 1.00
libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled (275):   0
libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled Default (276):   0
libinput Left Handed Enabled (277): 0
libinput Left Handed Enabled Default (278): 0
libinput Accel Speed (279): -1.00
libinput Accel Speed Default (280): 0.00
libinput Accel Profiles Available (281):1, 1
libinput Accel Profile Enabled (282):   1, 0
libinput Accel Profile Enabled Default (283):   1, 0
libinput Scroll Methods Available (284):0, 0, 1
libinput Scroll Method Enabled (285):   0, 0, 1
libinput Scroll Method Enabled Default (286):   0, 0, 1
libinput Button Scrolling Button (287): 2
libinput Button Scrolling Button Default (288): 2
libinput Middle Emulation Enabled (289):0
libinput Middle Emulation Enabled Default (290):0
libinput Send Events Modes Available (260): 1, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled (261):0, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled Default (262):0, 0
Device Node (263):  "/dev/input/event7"
Device Product ID (264):2, 14
libinput Drag Lock Buttons (291):   
libinput Horizontal Scroll Enabled (292):   1
[hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --set-prop 11 'libinput Accel Speed Default' -1
X Error of failed request:  BadAccess (attempt to access private resource 
denied)
  Major opcode of failed request:  131 (XInputExtension)
  Minor opcode of failed request:  57 ()
  Serial number of failed request:  20
  Current serial number in output stream:  21
[hendry@t480s ~]$ sudo xinput --set-prop 11 'libinput Accel Speed Default' -1
X Error of failed request:  BadAccess (attempt to access private resource 
denied)
  Major opcode of failed request:  131 (XInputExtension)
  Minor opcode of failed request:  57 ()
  Serial number of failed request:  20
  Current serial number in output stream:  21
[hendry@t480s ~]$
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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Peter Hutterer]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 11:36:55AM +0800, Kai Hendry wrote:
> Well I never installed gnome/kde to begin with.
> 
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, at 11:24 AM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> > don't get me wrong but - if you're capable of removing gnome/kde for
> > whatever reasons, you're capable of figuring out xinput. there are plenty of
> > guides on google, some of which are even accurate.
> 
> The thing that puzzles me here is:
> 
> [hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --list-props 11
> Device 'ETPS/2 Elantech TrackPoint':
> Device Enabled (140):   1
> Coordinate Transformation Matrix (142): 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 
> 0.00, 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 1.00
> libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled (275):   0
> libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled Default (276):   0
> libinput Left Handed Enabled (277): 0
> libinput Left Handed Enabled Default (278): 0
> libinput Accel Speed (279): 0.00
> libinput Accel Speed Default (280): 0.00
> libinput Accel Profiles Available (281):1, 1
> libinput Accel Profile Enabled (282):   1, 0
> libinput Accel Profile Enabled Default (283):   1, 0
> libinput Scroll Methods Available (284):0, 0, 1
> libinput Scroll Method Enabled (285):   0, 0, 1
> libinput Scroll Method Enabled Default (286):   0, 0, 1
> libinput Button Scrolling Button (287): 2
> libinput Button Scrolling Button Default (288): 2
> libinput Middle Emulation Enabled (289):0
> libinput Middle Emulation Enabled Default (290):0
> libinput Send Events Modes Available (260): 1, 0
> libinput Send Events Mode Enabled (261):0, 0
> libinput Send Events Mode Enabled Default (262):0, 0
> Device Node (263):  "/dev/input/event7"
> Device Product ID (264):2, 14
> libinput Drag Lock Buttons (291):   
> libinput Horizontal Scroll Enabled (292):   1
> [hendry@t480s ~]$ uname -a
> Linux t480s 4.15.9-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Mar 11 17:54:33 UTC 2018 x86_64 
> GNU/Linux
> 
> For example IIUC the  Accel Speed is already zero. So what on earth do I 
> change it to?

see the libinput documentation, it's a normalised value from -1.0 (slowest) to
1.0 (fastest) with 0 being the usually-default midpoint.

Cheers,
   Peter

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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Kai Hendry]

Well I never installed gnome/kde to begin with.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, at 11:24 AM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> don't get me wrong but - if you're capable of removing gnome/kde for
> whatever reasons, you're capable of figuring out xinput. there are plenty of
> guides on google, some of which are even accurate.

The thing that puzzles me here is:

[hendry@t480s ~]$ xinput --list-props 11
Device 'ETPS/2 Elantech TrackPoint':
Device Enabled (140):   1
Coordinate Transformation Matrix (142): 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 
0.00, 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 1.00
libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled (275):   0
libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled Default (276):   0
libinput Left Handed Enabled (277): 0
libinput Left Handed Enabled Default (278): 0
libinput Accel Speed (279): 0.00
libinput Accel Speed Default (280): 0.00
libinput Accel Profiles Available (281):1, 1
libinput Accel Profile Enabled (282):   1, 0
libinput Accel Profile Enabled Default (283):   1, 0
libinput Scroll Methods Available (284):0, 0, 1
libinput Scroll Method Enabled (285):   0, 0, 1
libinput Scroll Method Enabled Default (286):   0, 0, 1
libinput Button Scrolling Button (287): 2
libinput Button Scrolling Button Default (288): 2
libinput Middle Emulation Enabled (289):0
libinput Middle Emulation Enabled Default (290):0
libinput Send Events Modes Available (260): 1, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled (261):0, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled Default (262):0, 0
Device Node (263):  "/dev/input/event7"
Device Product ID (264):2, 14
libinput Drag Lock Buttons (291):   
libinput Horizontal Scroll Enabled (292):   1
[hendry@t480s ~]$ uname -a
Linux t480s 4.15.9-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Mar 11 17:54:33 UTC 2018 x86_64 
GNU/Linux

For example IIUC the  Accel Speed is already zero. So what on earth do I change 
it to?
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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Peter Hutterer]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 09:46:59AM +0800, Kai Hendry wrote:
> Thank you Peter for the pointers!
> 
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2018, at 12:25 PM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> > yeah, that's a built-in trackpoint feature that we don't have control over.
> 
> drat
> 
> > pieces with google. drift_time is probably the key here, maybe resetafter or
> > resync_time. At some point I had a pdf somewhere that described some of
> > these but, ...
> 
> https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-22/Elantech-TrackPoint.txt
> 
> Well, I'm doing random stuff like `[root@t480s device]# echo 5 >
> resync_time` since I have no idea what I am doing and It's not helping..

ah, crap, I just realised: I'm not sure that device is really working yet,
you'll likely need the latest kernels. Lenovo decided to mess with us again,
so the whole *80 series is a bit of a mess. I don't even know if that
trackpoint exposes the various hooks, and if so, if they work or do
anything.

> > > How do I do that? xinput?
> > use the gnome control center to change the pointer speed. or yeah, the
> > libinput Accel Speed property, set it to -1 and you'll have tar galore.
> 
> https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-22/xinput.png
> Sorry, I'm not a Gnome user. I one of those suckless linux users (lusers)
> who try to remove every gnome or kde app on their machine. Is there no cli
> tool I can effectively jam my trackpoint with?

don't get me wrong but - if you're capable of removing gnome/kde for
whatever reasons, you're capable of figuring out xinput. there are plenty of
guides on google, some of which are even accurate.

> > https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/trackpoints.html matters
> > too
> 
> It doesn't seem to account for the Y access. In my case here:
> https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-21/libinput.txt X axis is probably 25? and
> y is .. er.. 13? So how would LIBINPUT_ATTR_TRACKPOINT_RANGE look?

start with 25 and see how you go.

Cheers,
   Peter

> 
> That hwdb configuration syntax looks a bit daunting.
> 
> Kind regards,
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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Kai Hendry]

Thank you Peter for the pointers!

On Wed, 21 Mar 2018, at 12:25 PM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> yeah, that's a built-in trackpoint feature that we don't have control over.

drat

> pieces with google. drift_time is probably the key here, maybe resetafter or
> resync_time. At some point I had a pdf somewhere that described some of
> these but, ...

https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-22/Elantech-TrackPoint.txt

Well, I'm doing random stuff like `[root@t480s device]# echo 5 > resync_time` 
since I have no idea what I am doing and It's not helping..

> > How do I do that? xinput?
> use the gnome control center to change the pointer speed. or yeah, the
> libinput Accel Speed property, set it to -1 and you'll have tar galore.

https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-22/xinput.png
Sorry, I'm not a Gnome user. I one of those suckless linux users (lusers) who 
try to remove every gnome or kde app on their machine. Is there no cli tool I 
can effectively jam my trackpoint with?

> https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/trackpoints.html matters
> too

It doesn't seem to account for the Y access. In my case here: 
https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-21/libinput.txt X axis is probably 25? and y is 
.. er.. 13? So how would LIBINPUT_ATTR_TRACKPOINT_RANGE look?

That hwdb configuration syntax looks a bit daunting.

Kind regards,
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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Peter Hutterer]

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:14:28AM +0800, Kai Hendry wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2018, at 12:05 PM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> > what exactly is drift in this context? it moves on its own to the edge of
> > the screen?
> 
> It generally just moves diagonally south west for about a cm. Sometimes
> all the way to the bottom left. Initially I googled around and people said
> it was "re-calibrating"..

yeah, that's a built-in trackpoint feature that we don't have control over.
 
> > As for the drifting, is this something on your device only or a general
> > issue affecting this class of devices? Try playing around with the knobs 
> > in 
> > /sys/class/input/event18/device/device (replace event18 with your event 
> > node number)
> 
> Which knobs? Is there a guide?

judging by the output in the .txt file, you didn't run the cd command
correctly and ended up in some other device's directory. I'm honestly not
sure if there's a guide or even documentation but you can find bits and
pieces with google. drift_time is probably the key here, maybe resetafter or
resync_time. At some point I had a pdf somewhere that described some of
these but, ...

> > run libinput measure trackpoint-range and go from there, it's likely that
> > you need a custom range for that device. And the speed setting can be
> > changed, I'm having a hard time believing that at the lowest speed setting
> > it's still too fast given that it's almost tar-like at that speed on every
> > device I've tested.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDzWBhcOcCY
> https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-21/libinput.txt

> 
> > did you try changing the touchpad speed settings?
> 
> How do I do that? xinput?

use the gnome control center to change the pointer speed. or yeah, the
libinput Accel Speed property, set it to -1 and you'll have tar galore.

https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/trackpoints.html matters
too

Cheers,
   Peter


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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Kai Hendry]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018, at 12:05 PM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> what exactly is drift in this context? it moves on its own to the edge of
> the screen?

It generally just moves diagonally south west for about a cm. Sometimes all the 
way to the bottom left. Initially I googled around and people said it was 
"re-calibrating"..

> As for the drifting, is this something on your device only or a general
> issue affecting this class of devices? Try playing around with the knobs 
> in 
> /sys/class/input/event18/device/device (replace event18 with your event 
> node number)

Which knobs? Is there a guide?

> run libinput measure trackpoint-range and go from there, it's likely that
> you need a custom range for that device. And the speed setting can be
> changed, I'm having a hard time believing that at the lowest speed setting
> it's still too fast given that it's almost tar-like at that speed on every
> device I've tested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDzWBhcOcCY
https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-21/libinput.txt

> did you try changing the touchpad speed settings?

How do I do that? xinput?

Many thanks,
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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Emil Velikov]

On 20 March 2018 at 04:05, Peter Hutterer  wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 04:28:20PM +0800, Kai Hendry wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I'm an Archlinux user who has a new T480s Thinkpad and unfortunately
>> the Trackpoint can (not always or reproducibly) "drift". I hope that
>> makes sense!
>
> what exactly is drift in this context? it moves on its own to the edge of
> the screen?
>
FWIW I've experienced something that sounds like this.

Sharing some experience - it's _not_ mean to hijack the thread.

While the cursor is drifting in direction X, one can hardly move it
any another direction.
Unsurprisingly, the drift continues even after the cursor reaches the
end of the screen.

The only way to get it unstuck is by briefly moving the trackpoint in
the exact same direction where the drift is.

I've experienced that on x220 and X1C3 machines. Both running
Archlinux, in case it matters.

HTH
Emil
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Re: T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Peter Hutterer]

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 04:28:20PM +0800, Kai Hendry wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I'm an Archlinux user who has a new T480s Thinkpad and unfortunately
> the Trackpoint can (not always or reproducibly) "drift". I hope that
> makes sense!

what exactly is drift in this context? it moves on its own to the edge of
the screen?

> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=235400
> 
> The trouble is I can't seem to disable the Trackpoint pointer itself,
> but still have the buttons work, which I do use out of habit.

not something we support in libinput directly but you can possibly work
around this by setting the sensitivity ridiculously low. 

As for the drifting, is this something on your device only or a general
issue affecting this class of devices? Try playing around with the knobs in 
/sys/class/input/event18/device/device (replace event18 with your event node 
number)

> 
> Generally speaking I find the the track point is a bit too fast (and
> imprecise and hence useless) 


run libinput measure trackpoint-range and go from there, it's likely that
you need a custom range for that device. And the speed setting can be
changed, I'm having a hard time believing that at the lowest speed setting
it's still too fast given that it's almost tar-like at that speed on every
device I've tested.

> and the track pad a bit slow.
> For example if I drag my finger across the Trackpad, it's not enough
> to get from one side of the screen to the other.

did you try changing the touchpad speed settings?

Cheers,
   Peter

> I deleted Windows [1] so I don't really have anything to compare to. I
> do know years ago, my old old Thinkpads, the trackpoint did use to be
> a good UX. Now... not so much!
> 
> https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-19/t480s-list-devices.txt
> 
> Many thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [1] 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFlt7PI0sw8=PLiKgVPlhUNuz9k0xIp7PGUV5mmDdTS1vJ=2
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T480s Trackpoint drifts

[Kai Hendry]

Hi there,

I'm an Archlinux user who has a new T480s Thinkpad and unfortunately
the Trackpoint can (not always or reproducibly) "drift". I hope that
makes sense!

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=235400

The trouble is I can't seem to disable the Trackpoint pointer itself,
but still have the buttons work, which I do use out of habit.

Generally speaking I find the the track point is a bit too fast (and
imprecise and hence useless) and the track pad a bit slow.
For example if I drag my finger across the Trackpad, it's not enough
to get from one side of the screen to the other.

I deleted Windows [1] so I don't really have anything to compare to. I
do know years ago, my old old Thinkpads, the trackpoint did use to be
a good UX. Now... not so much!

https://s.natalian.org/2018-03-19/t480s-list-devices.txt

Many thanks!




[1] 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFlt7PI0sw8=PLiKgVPlhUNuz9k0xIp7PGUV5mmDdTS1vJ=2
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