Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Python 3

[Darin Adler]

> On Jul 16, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Alexey Proskuryakov  wrote:
> 
> - They shouldn't make it excessively difficult to do WebKit engineering on 
> older versions of macOS.
> 
> "Excessively" is not clearly defined, but it seems obvious that there is a 
> tradeoff between tools work difficulty, and difficulty for engineers who go 
> back to older macOS versions (and implicitly, difficulty for people who set 
> up bots, QA engineers, and others involved).
> 
> I don't think that anyone ever suggested that it will be up to each engineer 
> to figure out the best way to install Python 3.

Lets keep in mind our strategy to keep development of WebKit on macOS easy. We 
want to preserve this. The steps (assuming git) are:

https://webkit.org/build-tools/
• download and install Xcode from Apple
% xcode-select --install

https://webkit.org/getting-the-code/
% git clone git://git.webkit.org/WebKit.git WebKit
% Tools/Scripts/webkit-patch setup-git-clone

https://webkit.org/building-webkit/
% build-webkit --debug

https://webkit.org/running-webkit/
% run-safari

We’d really like to keep it to a small number of steps. Having to download and 
install anything else would be a significant additional step.

— Darin
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Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Python 3

[Alexey Proskuryakov]

> 15 июля 2019 г., в 23:04, Fujii Hironori  
> написал(а):
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 7:44 AM Ryosuke Niwa  > wrote:
> 
> I don’t think anyone is arguing that we’d eventually need to move to Python3. 
> I’m arguing that it’s not okay to require random WebKit contributor to know 
> some obscure python insanity to install Python 3, or have a script that 
> installs Python 3 and breaks all other python scripts in the system.
> 
> 
>  Just out of curiosity. As far as I know, installing Python 3 breaks nothing. 
> What and why are they got broken?

As always, it will be up to the people doing the work to decide how it's done. 
The feedback is clear:

- They shouldn't make it excessively difficult to do WebKit engineering on 
older versions of macOS.

"Excessively" is not clearly defined, but it seems obvious that there is a 
tradeoff between tools work difficulty, and difficulty for engineers who go 
back to older macOS versions (and implicitly, difficulty for people who set up 
bots, QA engineers, and others involved).

I don't think that anyone ever suggested that it will be up to each engineer to 
figure out the best way to install Python 3.

- virtualenv works great for some projects.

Definitely worth looking at it as one of the primary paths forward. It's not 
just Python itself, but we don't want to pollute the system with modules 
either. Although the latter already has a pretty nice solution in WebKit with 
autoinstall.

- virtualenv shouldn't be required when building WebKit, and dynamic 
dependencies in general are not OK in this scenario.

- Alexey

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Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Python 3

[Konstantin Tokarev]

16.07.2019, 14:33, "Guillaume Emont" :
> Quoting Fujii Hironori (2019-07-16 08:04:09)
>>  On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 7:44 AM Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
>>
>>  I don’t think anyone is arguing that we’d eventually need to move to
>>  Python3. I’m arguing that it’s not okay to require random WebKit
>>  contributor to know some obscure python insanity to install Python 3, or
>>  have a script that installs Python 3 and breaks all other python 
>> scripts in
>>  the system.
>>
>>   Just out of curiosity. As far as I know, installing Python 3 breaks 
>> nothing.
>>  What and why are they got broken?
>
> I suspect Ryosuke is talking about a case where python 3 has already
> been installed on the OS (but is not part of the original OS), and we
> install python 3 also, and the scripts that were using the first python
> 3 installed end up using WebKit's python 3 instead, which could lack a
> python module required by these scripts, hence breaking them.

But we have autoinstaller which handles this situation.

>
> I think this situation should be easy to avoid with a virtualenv though.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Guillaume
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-- 
Regards,
Konstantin

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Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Python 3

[Guillaume Emont]

Quoting Fujii Hironori (2019-07-16 08:04:09)
> 
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 7:44 AM Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
> 
> 
> I don’t think anyone is arguing that we’d eventually need to move to
> Python3. I’m arguing that it’s not okay to require random WebKit
> contributor to know some obscure python insanity to install Python 3, or
> have a script that installs Python 3 and breaks all other python scripts 
> in
> the system.
> 
> 
> 
>  Just out of curiosity. As far as I know, installing Python 3 breaks nothing.
> What and why are they got broken?

I suspect Ryosuke is talking about a case where python 3 has already
been installed on the OS (but is not part of the original OS), and we
install python 3 also, and the scripts that were using the first python
3 installed end up using WebKit's python 3 instead, which could lack a
python module required by these scripts, hence breaking them.

I think this situation should be easy to avoid with a virtualenv though.

Best regards,

Guillaume
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Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Python 3

[Fujii Hironori]

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 7:44 AM Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:

>
> I don’t think anyone is arguing that we’d eventually need to move to
> Python3. I’m arguing that it’s not okay to require random WebKit
> contributor to know some obscure python insanity to install Python 3, or
> have a script that installs Python 3 and breaks all other python scripts in
> the system.
>
>
 Just out of curiosity. As far as I know, installing Python 3 breaks
nothing. What and why are they got broken?
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