Re: [webkit-dev] HbbTV support within Webkit

2012-10-11 Thread Mark Toller
 -Original Message-
 From: Dominik Röttsches [mailto:dominik.rottsc...@intel.com]

 On 10/10/2012 10:26 AM, Mark Toller wrote:
  What we would like to see initially is Webkit based browsers (Chrome,
  Safari, Minibrowser, etc) actually load HbbTV pages instead of asking
  the user to download the content - this would indirectly benefit the 
  end goal of Webkit (to get everyone to support standard W3C/HTML5)...

 This particular change is just a matter of adding one more displayable
 mime-type, right?

Almost. I've created a bug and patch for this particular change:

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99049

As someone else stated, I think the best approach is to create
a bug for each change we consider worthwhile, and then they can be 
considered individually.

Regards,

Mark.

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Re: [webkit-dev] HbbTV support within Webkit

2012-10-10 Thread Mark Toller
Hi,

HbbTV and OIPF specifications are available to download from the HbbTV and
OIPF sites:

http://www.hbbtv.org/pages/about_hbbtv/specification.php
http://www.oipf.tv/specifications

The closed standard is the CE-HTML standard, which is referenced by OIPF.
The portions of CE-HTML used by HbbTV and OIPF are essentially a profile of
W3C standards and the AV Control plugin.

We're currently looking at our changes to identify areas that can be
delivered back which can provide benefit to Webkit without causing any
additional maintenance overhead. 

What we would like to see initially is Webkit based browsers (Chrome,
Safari, Minibrowser, etc) actually load HbbTV pages instead of asking the
user to download the content - this would indirectly benefit the end goal of
Webkit (to get everyone to support standard W3C/HTML5)... As you can
imagine, most application authors are web developers, and do not necessarily
have experience with HbbTV, OIPF or CE-HTML, so they use the standard
W3C/HTML5/XHTML constructs they are familiar with, except for the TV
specific API's or plugins. More often than not, they'll write their
application so that it can also run on a PC browser, because they have far
better debugging facilities than TVs! However, as soon as the application is
signalled correctly with an HbbTV or CE-HTML mime type, most browsers then
just ask to download the page. Also, many test with a browser in 'HTML'
mode, and not the stricter 'XHTML' mode.

Regards,

Mark.

-Original Message-
From: aba...@gmail.com [mailto:aba...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Adam Barth
Sent: 08 October 2012 19:36
To: Mark Toller
Cc: webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] HbbTV support within Webkit

From your message, it sounds like HbbTV is still not an open standard.
 I'm skeptical that we should support closed standards in WebKit.

Adam


On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Mark Toller mark.tol...@samsung.com wrote:
 Hi,



 I'd like to ask the Webkit developers their opinion on providing some
 support for HbbTV [1] within Webkit. Hybrid Broadcast Broadband TV or
 HbbTV, is a major new pan-European initiative aimed at harmonising the
 broadcast and broadband delivery of entertainment to the end consumer
 through connected TVs and set-top boxes.  The HbbTV standard is proving to
 be very popular, TVs and STBs supporting HbbTV are shipping in huge
numbers
 throughout Europe.  HbbTV is built on top of OIPF [2], which in turn is
 based on portions of CE-HTML [3].



 Our lab, Samsung Electronics Research Institute (SERI), has been heavily
 involved in HbbTV and our current solution is based on Webkit. We would
like
 to provide our changes back to the community.



 I know that support requests for CE-HTML have been briefly touched upon in
 the past. As I understand it, the main objection to providing support
within
 WebKit is that the CE-HTML specification is not freely available, and thus
 restricts the number of developers who can fully understand it and
therefore
 provide fixes / support.



 In reality, much of the CE-HTML specification simply profiles which parts
of
 the W3C standard behaviour are mandatory, optional and/or recommended.
OIPF
 then profiles CE-HTML (dropping some requirements, extending others to
match
 W3C/HTML5), HbbTV profiles out even more of CE-HTML.



 Other parts of OIPF and CE-HTML do not need to be implemented within
Webkit
 itself. Some can be implemented as object plugins (e.g. AV Control and
local
 video), while others, such as the JavaScript classes required, can be
 inserted into the JavaScriptCore at runtime.



 What I propose is to provide the basic support required within Webkit in
 order to at least load the XHTML portions of HbbTV applications and
provide
 the correct key handling to drive them. In order to provide 'full' HbbTV
 support, implementations would need to provide the plugins and additional
 JavaScript classes to complete the picture.



 For instance, by simply adding support for the document mime type handling
 of application/vnd.hbbtv.xhtml+xml and application/ce-html+xml, many HbbTV
 applications will load and display the main page, and several will also
 correctly navigate around the application correctly.



 Regards,



 Mark.



 [1] Hybrid Broadcast Broadband TV - http://www.hbbtv.org/

 [2] Open IPTV Forum - http://www.oipf.tv/

 [3] CEA, CEA-2014-A, Web-based Protocol Framework for Remote User
Interface
 on UPnP Networks and the Internet (Web4CE)






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[webkit-dev] HbbTV support within Webkit

2012-10-08 Thread Mark Toller
Hi,

I'd like to ask the Webkit developers their opinion on providing some support 
for HbbTV [1] within Webkit. Hybrid Broadcast Broadband TV or HbbTV, is a 
major new pan-European initiative aimed at harmonising the broadcast and 
broadband delivery of entertainment to the end consumer through connected TVs 
and set-top boxes.  The HbbTV standard is proving to be very popular, TVs and 
STBs supporting HbbTV are shipping in huge numbers throughout Europe.  HbbTV is 
built on top of OIPF [2], which in turn is based on portions of CE-HTML [3].

Our lab, Samsung Electronics Research Institute (SERI), has been heavily 
involved in HbbTV and our current solution is based on Webkit. We would like to 
provide our changes back to the community.

I know that support requests for CE-HTML have been briefly touched upon in the 
past. As I understand it, the main objection to providing support within WebKit 
is that the CE-HTML specification is not freely available, and thus restricts 
the number of developers who can fully understand it and therefore provide 
fixes / support.

In reality, much of the CE-HTML specification simply profiles which parts of 
the W3C standard behaviour are mandatory, optional and/or recommended. OIPF 
then profiles CE-HTML (dropping some requirements, extending others to match 
W3C/HTML5), HbbTV profiles out even more of CE-HTML.

Other parts of OIPF and CE-HTML do not need to be implemented within Webkit 
itself. Some can be implemented as object plugins (e.g. AV Control and local 
video), while others, such as the JavaScript classes required, can be inserted 
into the JavaScriptCore at runtime.

What I propose is to provide the basic support required within Webkit in order 
to at least load the XHTML portions of HbbTV applications and provide the 
correct key handling to drive them. In order to provide 'full' HbbTV support, 
implementations would need to provide the plugins and additional JavaScript 
classes to complete the picture.

For instance, by simply adding support for the document mime type handling of 
application/vnd.hbbtv.xhtml+xml and application/ce-html+xml, many HbbTV 
applications will load and display the main page, and several will also 
correctly navigate around the application correctly.

Regards,

Mark.

[1] Hybrid Broadcast Broadband TV - http://www.hbbtv.org/
[2] Open IPTV Forum - http://www.oipf.tv/
[3] CEA, CEA-2014-A, Web-based Protocol Framework for Remote User Interface on 
UPnP Networks and the Internet (Web4CE)


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