Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-10-13 Thread Maciej Stachowiak 

On Oct 12, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:

 Given that Gecko is implementing the unprefixed getItems (see 
 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591467), I don't see benefits in 
 implementing with webkit prefix. Also, it's still under a compile-time flag 
 so we can prefix it before enabling the flag by default if we strongly feel 
 like it.

In the WebKit context, the need to prefix should be driven by the spec maturity 
level, not just the fact that the feature is optional and experimental for now. 
In this case, we expect a very low likelihood of incompatible changes to the 
spec. So it seems fine to omit the prefix, just as we would for an experimental 
implementation of a stable specification. That being said, we may want to 
revisit this choice before turning the feature on by default.

Regards,
Maciej


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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-10-12 Thread Ryosuke Niwa 
Given that Gecko is implementing the unprefixed getItems (see
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591467), I don't see benefits
in implementing with webkit prefix. Also, it's still under a compile-time
flag so we can prefix it before enabling the flag by default if we strongly
feel like it.

- Ryosuke

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Charles Pritchard ch...@jumis.com wrote:

 On 9/22/2011 2:13 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:

 On Fri, 23 Sep 2011, Dean Jackson wrote:

 However, isn't prefixing designed to avoid incompatibilities in spec
 changes, not incompatibilities between implementations? Ensuring no
 conflicts in implementations doesn't matter too much if the spec
 changes.

 It's designed to ensure that authors can reliably use a name and expect to
 get the same result in any UA that supports that name.

 I'm not going to change the spec in a way that conflicts with that -- if
 the spec has to change, it'll change either in a compatible way (e.g. to
 match what was actually implemented), or in a way that doesn't conflict
 (e.g. by changing the name in the spec).


  Note I'm not talking about Microdata in particular. I don't even know
 what that spec is :) I'm just talking about the general approach. If the
 world can guarantee that this spec will never change, then I guess your
 technique works.

 FWIW, there is an in-between approach, which is the one used by WebGL.
 It defines a prefix that all implementations share.

 canvas.getContext(**experimental-webgl);

 That'll just result in that name becoming the standard.


 I would like some kind of fast track method for these kind of issues.
 Something like a Request for dropping prefix RfDP protocol would be
 super.

 RfDP: Microdata. First the spec editor would have to vouch for it, then,
 if Moz, MS, Opera, Apple and Google reps can give a nod within a few weeks,
 we've got something.

 I'd really like to avoid repeats of  the CSS -vnd-transform baggage, when
 possible.
 WebKit went back and forth on BlobBuilder. Now it's at:
 WebKitBlobBuilder. That was not so fun.
 That's another situation I'd like to avoid.

 For this particular method, the microdata section, I'm happy enough hearing
 that the spec editor will vouch for it.
 If that's the precedent, I'll take it. I'd like to learn how we can build
 on that precedent.

 Reps from the major vendors have been quite responsive this year. I know
 they can't commit to supporting
 an API in a short time frame (such as the File API), but they have been
 great about voicing issues.


 -Charles

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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-10-12 Thread Charles Pritchard 

On 10/12/2011 4:12 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
Given that Gecko is implementing the unprefixed getItems (see 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591467), I don't see 
benefits in implementing with webkit prefix. Also, it's still under a 
compile-time flag so we can prefix it before enabling the flag by 
default if we strongly feel like it.


- Ryosuke


I've no objection. I'd like to hear from Microsoft and Opera. I'll go 
solicit their feedback.


-Charles
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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-09-25 Thread Arko Saha 
Hi All,

Thanks for your valuable inputs regarding Microdata implementation.
I have uploaded the patch for basic implementation of document.getItems()
DOM API.

Bug id: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68610

Could someone please review the patch, and let me know the review comments.

Thanks and regards,
Arko Saha

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 3:12 AM, James Robinson jam...@google.com wrote:



 On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Charles Pritchard ch...@jumis.comwrote:

 On 9/22/2011 2:13 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:

 On Fri, 23 Sep 2011, Dean Jackson wrote:

 However, isn't prefixing designed to avoid incompatibilities in spec
 changes, not incompatibilities between implementations? Ensuring no
 conflicts in implementations doesn't matter too much if the spec
 changes.

 It's designed to ensure that authors can reliably use a name and expect
 to
 get the same result in any UA that supports that name.

 I'm not going to change the spec in a way that conflicts with that -- if
 the spec has to change, it'll change either in a compatible way (e.g. to
 match what was actually implemented), or in a way that doesn't conflict
 (e.g. by changing the name in the spec).


  Note I'm not talking about Microdata in particular. I don't even know
 what that spec is :) I'm just talking about the general approach. If the
 world can guarantee that this spec will never change, then I guess your
 technique works.

 FWIW, there is an in-between approach, which is the one used by WebGL.
 It defines a prefix that all implementations share.

 canvas.getContext(**experimental-webgl);

 That'll just result in that name becoming the standard.


 I would like some kind of fast track method for these kind of issues.
 Something like a Request for dropping prefix RfDP protocol would be
 super.


 Please post this feedback to some thread where it's relevant, not on a
 WebKit development mailing list discussion about a specific feature.

 - James



 RfDP: Microdata. First the spec editor would have to vouch for it, then,
 if Moz, MS, Opera, Apple and Google reps can give a nod within a few weeks,
 we've got something.

 I'd really like to avoid repeats of  the CSS -vnd-transform baggage,
 when possible.
 WebKit went back and forth on BlobBuilder. Now it's at:
 WebKitBlobBuilder. That was not so fun.
 That's another situation I'd like to avoid.

 For this particular method, the microdata section, I'm happy enough
 hearing that the spec editor will vouch for it.
 If that's the precedent, I'll take it. I'd like to learn how we can build
 on that precedent.

 Reps from the major vendors have been quite responsive this year. I know
 they can't commit to supporting
 an API in a short time frame (such as the File API), but they have been
 great about voicing issues.


 -Charles

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[webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-09-22 Thread Arko Saha 
Hi,

I have been looking at HTML5 Microdata  implementation in Webkit.

Microdata is a specification used to nest semantics within existing content
on web pages. Search engines, web crawlers, and browsers can extract and
process Microdata from a web page and use it to provide a richer browsing
experience for users. Microdata helps technologies such as search engines
and web crawlers better understand what information is contained in a web
page, providing better search results.
Here is the spec :
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/links.html#microdata

I have logged a bug for this and also attached a basic implementation patch
for the same.

Master bug: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68609

Please let me know your suggestions/views regarding this.

Thanks in advance.
Arko Saha
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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-09-22 Thread Adam Barth 
Just so I understand, you're talking about the DOM APIs for
interacting with microdata, right?  I know there was some controversy
in the HTML working group about Microdata versus RDFa.  It's not 100%
clear to me which of those technologies will win out in the end, but
it seems valuable to implement this feature behind an ENABLE flag.

Adam


On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 4:48 AM, Arko Saha ngh...@motorola.com wrote:
 Hi,
 I have been looking at HTML5 Microdata  implementation in Webkit.
 Microdata is a specification used to nest semantics within existing content
 on web pages. Search engines, web crawlers, and browsers can extract and
 process Microdata from a web page and use it to provide a richer browsing
 experience for users. Microdata helps technologies such as search engines
 and web crawlers better understand what information is contained in a web
 page, providing better search results.
 Here is the spec :
 http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/links.html#microdata
 I have logged a bug for this and also attached a basic implementation patch
 for the same.
 Master bug: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68609
 Please let me know your suggestions/views regarding this.
 Thanks in advance.
 Arko Saha
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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-09-22 Thread Charles Pritchard 

Regardless of an ENABLE flag, be certain to use the webkit prefix.
 document.getItems(typeNames) turns into
 document.webkitGetItems(typeNames)

Note that it's easy to implement this in pure javascript as a prototype.


-Charles

On 9/22/2011 8:00 AM, Adam Barth wrote:

Just so I understand, you're talking about the DOM APIs for
interacting with microdata, right?  I know there was some controversy
in the HTML working group about Microdata versus RDFa.  It's not 100%
clear to me which of those technologies will win out in the end, but
it seems valuable to implement this feature behind an ENABLE flag.

Adam


On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 4:48 AM, Arko Sahangh...@motorola.com  wrote:

Hi,
I have been looking at HTML5 Microdata  implementation in Webkit.
Microdata is a specification used to nest semantics within existing content
on web pages. Search engines, web crawlers, and browsers can extract and
process Microdata from a web page and use it to provide a richer browsing
experience for users. Microdata helps technologies such as search engines
and web crawlers better understand what information is contained in a web
page, providing better search results.
Here is the spec :
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/links.html#microdata
I have logged a bug for this and also attached a basic implementation patch
for the same.
Master bug: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68609
Please let me know your suggestions/views regarding this.
Thanks in advance.
Arko Saha
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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-09-22 Thread Ian Hickson 
On Thu, 22 Sep 2011, Charles Pritchard wrote:

 Regardless of an ENABLE flag, be certain to use the webkit prefix.
  document.getItems(typeNames) turns into
  document.webkitGetItems(typeNames)
 
 Note that it's easy to implement this in pure javascript as a prototype.

Assuming the patch implements the spec correctly, no need to use a prefix 
-- I'll track the implementations and ensure no conflicts.

-- 
Ian Hickson   U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/   U+263A/,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-09-22 Thread Dean Jackson 

On 23/09/2011, at 5:59 AM, Ian Hickson wrote:

 On Thu, 22 Sep 2011, Charles Pritchard wrote:
 
 Regardless of an ENABLE flag, be certain to use the webkit prefix.
 document.getItems(typeNames) turns into
 document.webkitGetItems(typeNames)
 
 Note that it's easy to implement this in pure javascript as a prototype.
 
 Assuming the patch implements the spec correctly, no need to use a prefix 
 -- I'll track the implementations and ensure no conflicts.

That's an interesting approach to prefixing - I commend the volunteering
of your time. 

However, isn't prefixing designed to avoid incompatibilities in spec
changes, not incompatibilities between implementations? Ensuring no
conflicts in implementations doesn't matter too much if the spec changes.

Note I'm not talking about Microdata in particular. I don't even know
what that spec is :) I'm just talking about the general approach. If
the world can guarantee that this spec will never change, then I guess
your technique works.

FWIW, there is an in-between approach, which is the one used by
WebGL. It defines a prefix that all implementations share.

canvas.getContext(experimental-webgl);

Dean



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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-09-22 Thread Ian Hickson 
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011, Dean Jackson wrote:
 
 However, isn't prefixing designed to avoid incompatibilities in spec 
 changes, not incompatibilities between implementations? Ensuring no 
 conflicts in implementations doesn't matter too much if the spec 
 changes.

It's designed to ensure that authors can reliably use a name and expect to 
get the same result in any UA that supports that name.

I'm not going to change the spec in a way that conflicts with that -- if 
the spec has to change, it'll change either in a compatible way (e.g. to 
match what was actually implemented), or in a way that doesn't conflict 
(e.g. by changing the name in the spec).


 Note I'm not talking about Microdata in particular. I don't even know 
 what that spec is :) I'm just talking about the general approach. If the 
 world can guarantee that this spec will never change, then I guess your 
 technique works.
 
 FWIW, there is an in-between approach, which is the one used by WebGL. 
 It defines a prefix that all implementations share.
 
 canvas.getContext(experimental-webgl);

That'll just result in that name becoming the standard.

-- 
Ian Hickson   U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/   U+263A/,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-09-22 Thread Charles Pritchard 

On 9/22/2011 2:13 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:

On Fri, 23 Sep 2011, Dean Jackson wrote:

However, isn't prefixing designed to avoid incompatibilities in spec
changes, not incompatibilities between implementations? Ensuring no
conflicts in implementations doesn't matter too much if the spec
changes.

It's designed to ensure that authors can reliably use a name and expect to
get the same result in any UA that supports that name.

I'm not going to change the spec in a way that conflicts with that -- if
the spec has to change, it'll change either in a compatible way (e.g. to
match what was actually implemented), or in a way that doesn't conflict
(e.g. by changing the name in the spec).



Note I'm not talking about Microdata in particular. I don't even know
what that spec is :) I'm just talking about the general approach. If the
world can guarantee that this spec will never change, then I guess your
technique works.

FWIW, there is an in-between approach, which is the one used by WebGL.
It defines a prefix that all implementations share.

canvas.getContext(experimental-webgl);

That'll just result in that name becoming the standard.


I would like some kind of fast track method for these kind of issues.
Something like a Request for dropping prefix RfDP protocol would be super.

RfDP: Microdata. First the spec editor would have to vouch for it, 
then, if Moz, MS, Opera, Apple and Google reps can give a nod within a 
few weeks, we've got something.


I'd really like to avoid repeats of  the CSS -vnd-transform baggage, 
when possible.
WebKit went back and forth on BlobBuilder. Now it's at: 
WebKitBlobBuilder. That was not so fun.

That's another situation I'd like to avoid.

For this particular method, the microdata section, I'm happy enough 
hearing that the spec editor will vouch for it.
If that's the precedent, I'll take it. I'd like to learn how we can 
build on that precedent.


Reps from the major vendors have been quite responsive this year. I know 
they can't commit to supporting
an API in a short time frame (such as the File API), but they have been 
great about voicing issues.



-Charles
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Re: [webkit-dev] New feature announcement - Implement HTML5 Microdata in WebKit

2011-09-22 Thread James Robinson 
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Charles Pritchard ch...@jumis.com wrote:

 On 9/22/2011 2:13 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:

 On Fri, 23 Sep 2011, Dean Jackson wrote:

 However, isn't prefixing designed to avoid incompatibilities in spec
 changes, not incompatibilities between implementations? Ensuring no
 conflicts in implementations doesn't matter too much if the spec
 changes.

 It's designed to ensure that authors can reliably use a name and expect to
 get the same result in any UA that supports that name.

 I'm not going to change the spec in a way that conflicts with that -- if
 the spec has to change, it'll change either in a compatible way (e.g. to
 match what was actually implemented), or in a way that doesn't conflict
 (e.g. by changing the name in the spec).


  Note I'm not talking about Microdata in particular. I don't even know
 what that spec is :) I'm just talking about the general approach. If the
 world can guarantee that this spec will never change, then I guess your
 technique works.

 FWIW, there is an in-between approach, which is the one used by WebGL.
 It defines a prefix that all implementations share.

 canvas.getContext(**experimental-webgl);

 That'll just result in that name becoming the standard.


 I would like some kind of fast track method for these kind of issues.
 Something like a Request for dropping prefix RfDP protocol would be
 super.


Please post this feedback to some thread where it's relevant, not on a
WebKit development mailing list discussion about a specific feature.

- James



 RfDP: Microdata. First the spec editor would have to vouch for it, then,
 if Moz, MS, Opera, Apple and Google reps can give a nod within a few weeks,
 we've got something.

 I'd really like to avoid repeats of  the CSS -vnd-transform baggage, when
 possible.
 WebKit went back and forth on BlobBuilder. Now it's at:
 WebKitBlobBuilder. That was not so fun.
 That's another situation I'd like to avoid.

 For this particular method, the microdata section, I'm happy enough hearing
 that the spec editor will vouch for it.
 If that's the precedent, I'll take it. I'd like to learn how we can build
 on that precedent.

 Reps from the major vendors have been quite responsive this year. I know
 they can't commit to supporting
 an API in a short time frame (such as the File API), but they have been
 great about voicing issues.


 -Charles

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