[webkit-dev] Public APIs for accessing the Javascript debugger
Hi,I'm interested in providing a public C API for accessing debugger functionality in _javascript_Core. Ideally I would like the code to be merged into webkit, so I wanted to know if there is a policy reason for not already having debugger APIs available in the public _javascript_Core APIs? If so, my work will obviously not be compatible with the policy, and I won't bother trying to conform to webkit coding standards, as the code will clearly not be accepted into webkit. Othwerwise I'll make an effort to make it fit in with the rest of the system.So, is there a reason for there not being a publically accessible debugger API?Alli ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Public APIs for accessing the Javascript debugger
The current debugging mechanism is not particularly pleasant to use, nor is it very future proof, it has significant performance costs, and it requires the user to have significant knowledge of the inner workings of JSC. Before we started considering exposing JS debugging through API (and therefore introducing additional binary compatibility requirements) we would need to have an improved debugging mechanism that resolved these issues. --Oliver On Jun 14, 2011, at 7:38 AM, demallien wrote: Hi, I'm interested in providing a public C API for accessing debugger functionality in JavascriptCore. Ideally I would like the code to be merged into webkit, so I wanted to know if there is a policy reason for not already having debugger APIs available in the public JavascriptCore APIs? If so, my work will obviously not be compatible with the policy, and I won't bother trying to conform to webkit coding standards, as the code will clearly not be accepted into webkit. Othwerwise I'll make an effort to make it fit in with the rest of the system. So, is there a reason for there not being a publically accessible debugger API? Alli ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Public APIs for accessing the Javascript debugger
Is that an official response?On 14 Jun, 2011,at 06:03 PM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote:The current debugging mechanism is not particularly pleasant to use, nor is it very future proof, it has significant performance costs, and it requires the user to have significant knowledge of the inner workings of JSC. Before we started considering exposing JS debugging through API (and therefore introducing additional binary compatibility requirements) we would need to have an improved debugging mechanism that resolved these issues. --Oliver On Jun 14, 2011, at 7:38 AM, demallien wrote: Hi, I'm interested in providing a public C API for accessing debugger functionality in _javascript_Core. Ideally I would like the code to be merged into webkit, so I wanted to know if there is a policy reason for not already having debugger APIs available in the public _javascript_Core APIs? If so, my work will obviously not be compatible with the policy, and I won't bother trying to conform to webkit coding standards, as the code will clearly not be accepted into webkit. Othwerwise I'll make an effort to make it fit in with the rest of the system. So, is there a reason for there not being a publically accessible debugger API? Alli ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Public APIs for accessing the Javascript debugger
It depends on what you mean by official I would probably r- any patch that attempted to create such an API, but it's conceivable that a sensible API could be made that masked the current craziness sufficiently to allow the craziness to be removed later. But any API would need to be very carefully thought out, and would probably require multiple iterations to get to the point where we'd consider the API sufficiently good. --Oliver On Jun 14, 2011, at 9:12 AM, demallien wrote: Is that an official response? On 14 Jun, 2011,at 06:03 PM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote: The current debugging mechanism is not particularly pleasant to use, nor is it very future proof, it has significant performance costs, and it requires the user to have significant knowledge of the inner workings of JSC. Before we started considering exposing JS debugging through API (and therefore introducing additional binary compatibility requirements) we would need to have an improved debugging mechanism that resolved these issues. --Oliver On Jun 14, 2011, at 7:38 AM, demallien wrote: Hi, I'm interested in providing a public C API for accessing debugger functionality in JavascriptCore. Ideally I would like the code to be merged into webkit, so I wanted to know if there is a policy reason for not already having debugger APIs available in the public JavascriptCore APIs? If so, my work will obviously not be compatible with the policy, and I won't bother trying to conform to webkit coding standards, as the code will clearly not be accepted into webkit. Othwerwise I'll make an effort to make it fit in with the rest of the system. So, is there a reason for there not being a publically accessible debugger API? Alli ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Public APIs for accessing the Javascript debugger
WebKit-Dev Development webkit-dev@lists.webkit.orgOn 14 Jun, 2011,at 06:30 PM, demallien demall...@mac.com wrote:Yup, that sounds pretty "official" to me :)In which case, are there any plans to start this process? _javascript_Core has been around for quite a while now, and this is a relatively important piece of technology to have for a development environment. Certainly, it is a definite pain point for me to not have this API publicly available - it makes it just that much harder for me to support users of my _javascript_ framework, I'm going to have to supply them with a specially patched version of webkit, which is something that I really didn't want to have to do...AlliOn 14 Jun, 2011,at 06:21 PM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote:It depends on what you mean by "official"I would probably r- any patch that attempted to create such an API, but it's conceivable that a sensible API could be made that masked the current craziness sufficiently to allow the craziness to be removed later. But any API would need to be very carefully thought out, and would probably require multiple iterations to get to the point where we'd consider the API sufficiently good.--OliverOn Jun 14, 2011, at 9:12 AM, demallien wrote:Is that an official response?On 14 Jun, 2011,at 06:03 PM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote:The current debugging mechanism is not particularly pleasant to use, nor is it very future proof, it has significant performance costs, and it requires the user to have significant knowledge of the inner workings of JSC. Before we started considering exposing JS debugging through API (and therefore introducing additional binary compatibility requirements) we would need to have an improved debugging mechanism that resolved these issues. --Oliver On Jun 14, 2011, at 7:38 AM, demallien wrote: Hi, I'm interested in providing a public C API for accessing debugger functionality in _javascript_Core. Ideally I would like the code to be merged into webkit, so I wanted to know if there is a policy reason for not already having debugger APIs available in the public _javascript_Core APIs? If so, my work will obviously not be compatible with the policy, and I won't bother trying to conform to webkit coding standards, as the code will clearly not be accepted into webkit. Othwerwise I'll make an effort to make it fit in with the rest of the system. So, is there a reason for there not being a publically accessible debugger API? Alli ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Public APIs for accessing the Javascript debugger
demallien, My sense from Oliver's response is that there aren't any plans to start this process. He's one of the key decision makers on this topic and he sounds pretty negative about creating such an API. Generally, the WebKit project tries to be careful about creating public APIs because they constrain future development of the engine (because we strive for API compatibility). Although JavaScriptCore as a whole has been around for quite a while, the debugging capability is relatively new. Maintaining a specially patched version of WebKit can be a lot of work, so I can certainly understand your reluctance. I wish you the best of luck. Adam On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:32 AM, demallien demall...@me.com wrote: WebKit-Dev Development webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org On 14 Jun, 2011,at 06:30 PM, demallien demall...@mac.com wrote: Yup, that sounds pretty official to me :) In which case, are there any plans to start this process? JavascriptCore has been around for quite a while now, and this is a relatively important piece of technology to have for a development environment. Certainly, it is a definite pain point for me to not have this API publicly available - it makes it just that much harder for me to support users of my Javascript framework, I'm going to have to supply them with a specially patched version of webkit, which is something that I really didn't want to have to do... Alli On 14 Jun, 2011,at 06:21 PM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote: It depends on what you mean by official I would probably r- any patch that attempted to create such an API, but it's conceivable that a sensible API could be made that masked the current craziness sufficiently to allow the craziness to be removed later. But any API would need to be very carefully thought out, and would probably require multiple iterations to get to the point where we'd consider the API sufficiently good. --Oliver On Jun 14, 2011, at 9:12 AM, demallien wrote: Is that an official response? On 14 Jun, 2011,at 06:03 PM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote: The current debugging mechanism is not particularly pleasant to use, nor is it very future proof, it has significant performance costs, and it requires the user to have significant knowledge of the inner workings of JSC. Before we started considering exposing JS debugging through API (and therefore introducing additional binary compatibility requirements) we would need to have an improved debugging mechanism that resolved these issues. --Oliver On Jun 14, 2011, at 7:38 AM, demallien wrote: Hi, I'm interested in providing a public C API for accessing debugger functionality in JavascriptCore. Ideally I would like the code to be merged into webkit, so I wanted to know if there is a policy reason for not already having debugger APIs available in the public JavascriptCore APIs? If so, my work will obviously not be compatible with the policy, and I won't bother trying to conform to webkit coding standards, as the code will clearly not be accepted into webkit. Othwerwise I'll make an effort to make it fit in with the rest of the system. So, is there a reason for there not being a publically accessible debugger API? Alli ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Public APIs for accessing the Javascript debugger
Hi Alli, On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:38 AM, demallien demall...@me.com wrote: I'm interested in providing a public C API for accessing debugger functionality in JavascriptCore. Can you share the goals of this external API, and why the existing inspector infrastructure is not sufficient? Maybe if we better understood your goals, a suitable approach could be found that satisfied your goals without running afoul of Oliver's concerns. -Brent ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Public APIs for accessing the Javascript debugger
Hi Brent, Sure. The goal of the debugger API is to allow client apps to create their own Javascript debugger as part of their browser. This isn't possible at the moment because the API is private, and hence you need to build the debugger code as part of Webkit to be able to access the header files. What I particularly do NOT want to have to do, is supply a special patched version of webkit to users of my own framework, that uses JavascriptCore as it's scripting language. Without trying to get ahead of the discussion, I was going to try just sticking copies of the relevant header files in my own project, and hoping that the needed symbols aren't stripped out of the lib. If that works, then things aren't too painful for me. It'll break if and when the private APIs change, but hey, that's what I get for using a private API... If the symbols have been stripped, then that WILL be painful to manage. I can't use the current inspector infrastructure because my application doesn't use webkit - think node.js (except it's scripting a custom graphics stack, not server-side code). We're running on a set top box, and don't even have a mouse available anyway... Alli On 14 juin 2011, at 19:44, Brent Fulgham wrote: Can you share the goals of this external API, and why the existing inspector infrastructure is not sufficient? Maybe if we better understood your goals, a suitable approach could be found that satisfied your goals without running afoul of Oliver's concerns. -Brent ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
