Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
On 05/31/2012 07:06 PM, Alexey Proskuryakov wrote: What I'm seeing is that parts of v8 support are already leaking into cross-platform WebKit2 code. WebKitTestRunner cannot just use WebCoreTestSupport, it needs an ifdef for Qt: #if PLATFORM(QT) DumpRenderTreeSupportQt::injectInternalsObject(context); #else WebCoreTestSupport::injectInternalsObject(context); #endif This is of course something non-Qt developers have to worry about, see e.g. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87783#c14. This one could be avoided with the shim (in https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87872). We could introduce a file called WebKitTestSupportQt.cpp that implements injectInternalsObject(JSContextRef). It would unbox the v8 context from the wrapper and call the v8 version of WebCoreTestSupport::injectInternalsObject. So it's a bit complicated but at least there would be no ifdef needed in WebKitTestRunner. - WBR, Alexey Proskuryakov 31.05.2012, ? 9:38, Balazs Kelemen ???(?): I continued to work on this, more complete patches have been sent in https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87872 and https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84457. It's not because I don't understand your points, but it's better to debate on an actual patch that just theoretically :) I think most of what is needed in WebKit2 to support v8 is really just boilerplate code that should not change regularly. On 04/24/2012 12:23 AM, Sam Weinig wrote: Without considerable more demand, I don't think we want this. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Balazs Kelemenkbal...@webkit.org wrote: On 04/23/2012 11:53 PM, Sam Weinig wrote: Hi Balazs, This is something we don't want at this time. Dealing with V8 in WebCore is pretty big maintenance burden and one I would rather not have in WebKit2 unless there is considerable demand for it. Well, it's important for Qt. In your patch (attached tohttps://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84457), there are many intrusive changes to core WebKit2 code, making it harder to comprehend and refactor. Also, since a much bigger proportion of developers who develop WebKit2 don't ever compile V8, it seems more likely that the code will stop working. The WIP patch I uploaded is just a very first step to make it possible to build with v8 without breaking the most basic features. I have just overhacked every problematic part - instead of finding a proper solution to them - to see how many dependencies there are on JSC as quickly as possible. It should be way better before uploaded for review. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Balazs Kelemenkbal...@webkit.org wrote: Hi everyone, I would like to inform you about the topic I am working on, since it is something that can affect WebKit2 architecturally. I would like to make WebKit2 work with v8. The motivation behind this is that the long term goal of the Qt port is to switch to v8. Qt already use v8 in it's Qml module, and it's better to have only one VM in the framework (less code size, less memory usage, easier maintenance). My goal is to achieve this with the minimal amount of changes made in WebKit2. My plan for WebKitTestRunner is to wrap v8 behind the JavaScriptCore API (or, in another point of view, implement the JSC API upon the v8 API). For the core of WebKit2 we will have to use some bindings for things like plugins or the injected bundle but it should be not too much of a maintenance burden. Inform me if you have any concerns or suggestion. Cheers! Balazs Kelemen ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
01.06.2012, в 7:18, Balazs Kelemen написал(а): This is of course something non-Qt developers have to worry about, see e.g. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87783#c14. This one could be avoided with the shim (in https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87872). We could introduce a file called WebKitTestSupportQt.cpp that implements injectInternalsObject(JSContextRef). It would unbox the v8 context from the wrapper and call the v8 version of WebCoreTestSupport::injectInternalsObject. So it's a bit complicated but at least there would be no ifdef needed in WebKitTestRunner. My point is that WebKit2/v8 integration is causing trouble even before it officially started to happen. That's not a good sign. Lack of support for non-webkit.org JavaScriptCore substitutes is not a weakness of WebKit2, it's a strength. The code is more hackable, tests are easier to maintain etc. - WBR, Alexey Proskuryakov ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
I believe it's a disservice to the community as a whole to not provide proper javascript engine abstractions in webkit. On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Alexey Proskuryakov a...@webkit.org wrote: 01.06.2012, в 7:18, Balazs Kelemen написал(а): This is of course something non-Qt developers have to worry about, see e.g. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87783#c14. This one could be avoided with the shim (in https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87872). We could introduce a file called WebKitTestSupportQt.cpp that implements injectInternalsObject(JSContextRef). It would unbox the v8 context from the wrapper and call the v8 version of WebCoreTestSupport::injectInternalsObject. So it's a bit complicated but at least there would be no ifdef needed in WebKitTestRunner. My point is that WebKit2/v8 integration is causing trouble even before it officially started to happen. That's not a good sign. Lack of support for non-webkit.org JavaScriptCore substitutes is not a weakness of WebKit2, it's a strength. The code is more hackable, tests are easier to maintain etc. - WBR, Alexey Proskuryakov ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
On Jun 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, Jake j...@jakeonthenet.com wrote: I believe it's a disservice to the community as a whole to not provide proper javascript engine abstractions in webkit. I don’t agree. We should have abstractions for things that need to be abstract. Too many abstractions make the code much harder to work with. -- Darin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
What constitutes a need? Qt obviously has a need for it. Is there a threshold of ports needing a feature before it becomes blessed? On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Darin Adler da...@apple.com wrote: On Jun 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, Jake j...@jakeonthenet.com wrote: I believe it's a disservice to the community as a whole to not provide proper javascript engine abstractions in webkit. I don’t agree. We should have abstractions for things that need to be abstract. Too many abstractions make the code much harder to work with. -- Darin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
Are you a WebKit developer? -- Darin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
They may have a desire for it, but certainly not a need -- Webkit includes a well maintained, guaranteed ABI stable JS engine that works on _all_ architectures, with a high performance JIT support available on numerous architectures and OS's. Being able to support two engines just in webcore has added substantial complexity to the codebase, and has led to many features being implemented only for one engine but not the other. There is a very large and substantial cost to this, and very little actual benefit. We have repeatedly stated that support for JS engines other than that provided by webkit is not a primary goal of webkit, and ports that wish to make use of any other engines do so at their own risk, and there attempts to do so can't interfere with the actual webkit project. --Oliver On Jun 1, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Jake wrote: What constitutes a need? Qt obviously has a need for it. Is there a threshold of ports needing a feature before it becomes blessed? On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Darin Adler da...@apple.com wrote: On Jun 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, Jake j...@jakeonthenet.com wrote: I believe it's a disservice to the community as a whole to not provide proper javascript engine abstractions in webkit. I don’t agree. We should have abstractions for things that need to be abstract. Too many abstractions make the code much harder to work with. -- Darin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
Oliver - Ok, well that makes sense. I was under the mistaken impression webkit had an engine abstraction, and that it wasn't being move forward to webkit2. Darin - If by webkit developer you mean I contribute to webkit, then no. I do however use webkit in several projects. On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote: They may have a desire for it, but certainly not a need -- Webkit includes a well maintained, guaranteed ABI stable JS engine that works on _all_ architectures, with a high performance JIT support available on numerous architectures and OS's. Being able to support two engines just in webcore has added substantial complexity to the codebase, and has led to many features being implemented only for one engine but not the other. There is a very large and substantial cost to this, and very little actual benefit. We have repeatedly stated that support for JS engines other than that provided by webkit is not a primary goal of webkit, and ports that wish to make use of any other engines do so at their own risk, and there attempts to do so can't interfere with the actual webkit project. --Oliver On Jun 1, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Jake wrote: What constitutes a need? Qt obviously has a need for it. Is there a threshold of ports needing a feature before it becomes blessed? On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Darin Adler da...@apple.com wrote: On Jun 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, Jake j...@jakeonthenet.com wrote: I believe it's a disservice to the community as a whole to not provide proper javascript engine abstractions in webkit. I don’t agree. We should have abstractions for things that need to be abstract. Too many abstractions make the code much harder to work with. -- Darin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
I continued to work on this, more complete patches have been sent in https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87872 and https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84457. It's not because I don't understand your points, but it's better to debate on an actual patch that just theoretically :) I think most of what is needed in WebKit2 to support v8 is really just boilerplate code that should not change regularly. On 04/24/2012 12:23 AM, Sam Weinig wrote: Without considerable more demand, I don't think we want this. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Balazs Kelemenkbal...@webkit.org wrote: On 04/23/2012 11:53 PM, Sam Weinig wrote: Hi Balazs, This is something we don't want at this time. Dealing with V8 in WebCore is pretty big maintenance burden and one I would rather not have in WebKit2 unless there is considerable demand for it. Well, it's important for Qt. In your patch (attached to https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84457), there are many intrusive changes to core WebKit2 code, making it harder to comprehend and refactor. Also, since a much bigger proportion of developers who develop WebKit2 don't ever compile V8, it seems more likely that the code will stop working. The WIP patch I uploaded is just a very first step to make it possible to build with v8 without breaking the most basic features. I have just overhacked every problematic part - instead of finding a proper solution to them - to see how many dependencies there are on JSC as quickly as possible. It should be way better before uploaded for review. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Balazs Kelemenkbal...@webkit.org wrote: Hi everyone, I would like to inform you about the topic I am working on, since it is something that can affect WebKit2 architecturally. I would like to make WebKit2 work with v8. The motivation behind this is that the long term goal of the Qt port is to switch to v8. Qt already use v8 in it's Qml module, and it's better to have only one VM in the framework (less code size, less memory usage, easier maintenance). My goal is to achieve this with the minimal amount of changes made in WebKit2. My plan for WebKitTestRunner is to wrap v8 behind the JavaScriptCore API (or, in another point of view, implement the JSC API upon the v8 API). For the core of WebKit2 we will have to use some bindings for things like plugins or the injected bundle but it should be not too much of a maintenance burden. Inform me if you have any concerns or suggestion. Cheers! Balazs Kelemen ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
What I'm seeing is that parts of v8 support are already leaking into cross-platform WebKit2 code. WebKitTestRunner cannot just use WebCoreTestSupport, it needs an ifdef for Qt: #if PLATFORM(QT) DumpRenderTreeSupportQt::injectInternalsObject(context); #else WebCoreTestSupport::injectInternalsObject(context); #endif This is of course something non-Qt developers have to worry about, see e.g. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87783#c14. - WBR, Alexey Proskuryakov 31.05.2012, в 9:38, Balazs Kelemen написал(а): I continued to work on this, more complete patches have been sent in https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87872 and https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84457. It's not because I don't understand your points, but it's better to debate on an actual patch that just theoretically :) I think most of what is needed in WebKit2 to support v8 is really just boilerplate code that should not change regularly. On 04/24/2012 12:23 AM, Sam Weinig wrote: Without considerable more demand, I don't think we want this. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Balazs Kelemen kbal...@webkit.org wrote: On 04/23/2012 11:53 PM, Sam Weinig wrote: Hi Balazs, This is something we don't want at this time. Dealing with V8 in WebCore is pretty big maintenance burden and one I would rather not have in WebKit2 unless there is considerable demand for it. Well, it's important for Qt. In your patch (attached to https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84457), there are many intrusive changes to core WebKit2 code, making it harder to comprehend and refactor. Also, since a much bigger proportion of developers who develop WebKit2 don't ever compile V8, it seems more likely that the code will stop working. The WIP patch I uploaded is just a very first step to make it possible to build with v8 without breaking the most basic features. I have just overhacked every problematic part - instead of finding a proper solution to them - to see how many dependencies there are on JSC as quickly as possible. It should be way better before uploaded for review. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Balazs Kelemenkbal...@webkit.org wrote: Hi everyone, I would like to inform you about the topic I am working on, since it is something that can affect WebKit2 architecturally. I would like to make WebKit2 work with v8. The motivation behind this is that the long term goal of the Qt port is to switch to v8. Qt already use v8 in it's Qml module, and it's better to have only one VM in the framework (less code size, less memory usage, easier maintenance). My goal is to achieve this with the minimal amount of changes made in WebKit2. My plan for WebKitTestRunner is to wrap v8 behind the JavaScriptCore API (or, in another point of view, implement the JSC API upon the v8 API). For the core of WebKit2 we will have to use some bindings for things like plugins or the injected bundle but it should be not too much of a maintenance burden. Inform me if you have any concerns or suggestion. Cheers! Balazs Kelemen ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
Hi everyone, I would like to inform you about the topic I am working on, since it is something that can affect WebKit2 architecturally. I would like to make WebKit2 work with v8. The motivation behind this is that the long term goal of the Qt port is to switch to v8. Qt already use v8 in it's Qml module, and it's better to have only one VM in the framework (less code size, less memory usage, easier maintenance). My goal is to achieve this with the minimal amount of changes made in WebKit2. My plan for WebKitTestRunner is to wrap v8 behind the JavaScriptCore API (or, in another point of view, implement the JSC API upon the v8 API). For the core of WebKit2 we will have to use some bindings for things like plugins or the injected bundle but it should be not too much of a maintenance burden. Inform me if you have any concerns or suggestion. Cheers! Balazs Kelemen ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
Hi Balazs, This is something we don't want at this time. Dealing with V8 in WebCore is pretty big maintenance burden and one I would rather not have in WebKit2 unless there is considerable demand for it. In your patch (attached to https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84457), there are many intrusive changes to core WebKit2 code, making it harder to comprehend and refactor. Also, since a much bigger proportion of developers who develop WebKit2 don't ever compile V8, it seems more likely that the code will stop working. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Balazs Kelemen kbal...@webkit.org wrote: Hi everyone, I would like to inform you about the topic I am working on, since it is something that can affect WebKit2 architecturally. I would like to make WebKit2 work with v8. The motivation behind this is that the long term goal of the Qt port is to switch to v8. Qt already use v8 in it's Qml module, and it's better to have only one VM in the framework (less code size, less memory usage, easier maintenance). My goal is to achieve this with the minimal amount of changes made in WebKit2. My plan for WebKitTestRunner is to wrap v8 behind the JavaScriptCore API (or, in another point of view, implement the JSC API upon the v8 API). For the core of WebKit2 we will have to use some bindings for things like plugins or the injected bundle but it should be not too much of a maintenance burden. Inform me if you have any concerns or suggestion. Cheers! Balazs Kelemen ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
On 04/23/2012 11:53 PM, Sam Weinig wrote: Hi Balazs, This is something we don't want at this time. Dealing with V8 in WebCore is pretty big maintenance burden and one I would rather not have in WebKit2 unless there is considerable demand for it. Well, it's important for Qt. In your patch (attached to https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84457), there are many intrusive changes to core WebKit2 code, making it harder to comprehend and refactor. Also, since a much bigger proportion of developers who develop WebKit2 don't ever compile V8, it seems more likely that the code will stop working. The WIP patch I uploaded is just a very first step to make it possible to build with v8 without breaking the most basic features. I have just overhacked every problematic part - instead of finding a proper solution to them - to see how many dependencies there are on JSC as quickly as possible. It should be way better before uploaded for review. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Balazs Kelemenkbal...@webkit.org wrote: Hi everyone, I would like to inform you about the topic I am working on, since it is something that can affect WebKit2 architecturally. I would like to make WebKit2 work with v8. The motivation behind this is that the long term goal of the Qt port is to switch to v8. Qt already use v8 in it's Qml module, and it's better to have only one VM in the framework (less code size, less memory usage, easier maintenance). My goal is to achieve this with the minimal amount of changes made in WebKit2. My plan for WebKitTestRunner is to wrap v8 behind the JavaScriptCore API (or, in another point of view, implement the JSC API upon the v8 API). For the core of WebKit2 we will have to use some bindings for things like plugins or the injected bundle but it should be not too much of a maintenance burden. Inform me if you have any concerns or suggestion. Cheers! Balazs Kelemen ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] webkit2 with v8
Without considerable more demand, I don't think we want this. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Balazs Kelemen kbal...@webkit.org wrote: On 04/23/2012 11:53 PM, Sam Weinig wrote: Hi Balazs, This is something we don't want at this time. Dealing with V8 in WebCore is pretty big maintenance burden and one I would rather not have in WebKit2 unless there is considerable demand for it. Well, it's important for Qt. In your patch (attached to https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84457), there are many intrusive changes to core WebKit2 code, making it harder to comprehend and refactor. Also, since a much bigger proportion of developers who develop WebKit2 don't ever compile V8, it seems more likely that the code will stop working. The WIP patch I uploaded is just a very first step to make it possible to build with v8 without breaking the most basic features. I have just overhacked every problematic part - instead of finding a proper solution to them - to see how many dependencies there are on JSC as quickly as possible. It should be way better before uploaded for review. -Sam On Apr 23, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Balazs Kelemenkbal...@webkit.org wrote: Hi everyone, I would like to inform you about the topic I am working on, since it is something that can affect WebKit2 architecturally. I would like to make WebKit2 work with v8. The motivation behind this is that the long term goal of the Qt port is to switch to v8. Qt already use v8 in it's Qml module, and it's better to have only one VM in the framework (less code size, less memory usage, easier maintenance). My goal is to achieve this with the minimal amount of changes made in WebKit2. My plan for WebKitTestRunner is to wrap v8 behind the JavaScriptCore API (or, in another point of view, implement the JSC API upon the v8 API). For the core of WebKit2 we will have to use some bindings for things like plugins or the injected bundle but it should be not too much of a maintenance burden. Inform me if you have any concerns or suggestion. Cheers! Balazs Kelemen ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
