Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
He's dead, Jim: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107522 On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: I think it's fine to shoot it in the head now. We do still want to come back to it eventually, but it's now apparent that we won't in the next 1.5 months. - Maciej On Jan 17, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: Maciej has asked that we keep it around until the end of February: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100710 Adam On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote: Hi, It has been 11 months since Eric initially raised the concern. Can we go ahead and remove the parser now? - R. Niwa ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
No idea what this is about as I haven't studied your tree yet but here's a couple of XML enhancements I'd like to see accepted by the mainstream (including the webkit parser) 1. default element close. syntax: myelement [stuff] / currently you have to do : myelement [stuff] /myelement which is overly verbose. 2. drop the requirement for quotes on attributes where the value doesn't contain whitespace. So myelement thing=5/ rather than the bloaty myelement thing=5/ Yeah I know those aren't in the current XML spec. Just sayin'. - Steve On 18/01/2013 00:15, Adam Barth wrote: Maciej has asked that we keep it around until the end of February: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100710 Adam On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote: Hi, It has been 11 months since Eric initially raised the concern. Can we go ahead and remove the parser now? - R. Niwa ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
Your examples are not valid according to XML 1.0. I know - that was kind of the point of mentioning it - an FYI. Will raise for discussion on the responsible W3C mailing lists when I figure out where they are. Cheers, Steve. On 18/01/2013 15:26, Dirk Schulze wrote: On Jan 18, 2013, at 6:19 AM, Steve Williams stephen.j.h.willi...@googlemail.com wrote: No idea what this is about as I haven't studied your tree yet but here's a couple of XML enhancements I'd like to see accepted by the mainstream (including the webkit parser) 1. default element close. syntax: myelement [stuff] / currently you have to do : myelement [stuff] /myelement which is overly verbose. 2. drop the requirement for quotes on attributes where the value doesn't contain whitespace. So myelement thing=5/ rather than the bloaty myelement thing=5/ Yeah I know those aren't in the current XML spec. Just sayin'. The purpose of an XML parser is parse XML files according to the specification of XML. If you don't like the rules of XML, discuss it on the responsible W3C mailing lists. Your examples are not valid according to XML 1.0. Greetings, Dirk ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
Hi, It has been 11 months since Eric initially raised the concern. Can we go ahead and remove the parser now? - R. Niwa ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
Maciej has asked that we keep it around until the end of February: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100710 Adam On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote: Hi, It has been 11 months since Eric initially raised the concern. Can we go ahead and remove the parser now? - R. Niwa ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
I think it's fine to shoot it in the head now. We do still want to come back to it eventually, but it's now apparent that we won't in the next 1.5 months. - Maciej On Jan 17, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: Maciej has asked that we keep it around until the end of February: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100710 Adam On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote: Hi, It has been 11 months since Eric initially raised the concern. Can we go ahead and remove the parser now? - R. Niwa ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Aug 27, 2012, at 7:17 PM, Adam Barth wrote: My position is simple: the code is broken and unused. As a general rule, we shouldn't keep broken, unused code in the tree for extended periods of time. Therefore, we should remove it. I agree with Adam. We should aggressively cull dead code from the tree. It's the only way to keep things tidy. I may get back to it at some point in the future is a fine statement, but without any firm commitment, it seems best to just remove the code from the tree for now. If and when someone steps up to actually work on it again, it shouldn't be much work to bring the code back to life. Forcing everyone else to deal with code that may or may not ever be returned to in the meantime isn't really fair to the rest of the project. dave (hy...@apple.com) ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
Checking back in: Curious if this effort is still underway. Adam and I would like to delete the New XML Parser if it's not needed in order to simplify the HTML 5 Parser again. :) On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Mar 15, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Eric Seidel wrote: It seems the New XML Parser hasn't been touched in about 8 months: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/xml/parser Are there any plans to continue work on such, or can it be removed? The refactoring which was done to support it seems to mostly just confuse the HTML 5 Parser code... :( (I went looking for how something was implemented in the HTML5 parser... and it took me a long time to find it this afternoon). Yes, we plan to get more active on this effort again within a few months. Note that some of the refactoring was able to benefit the WebVTT parser, so we need some generic parser abstractions in any case. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Eric Seidel e...@webkit.org wrote: Checking back in: Curious if this effort is still underway. Adam and I would like to delete the New XML Parser if it's not needed in order to simplify the HTML 5 Parser again. :) We do tentatively plan to get back to it (the original implementor is currently working full-time at Apple on the WebKit team). As far as simplifying the HTML5 parser - isn't most of the foundational work that touches the HTML5 parser also required for WebVTT, as mentioned by me in the email you quote below? Is there a big simplicity win to be had without breaking WebVTT? If so, we can think about whether removing the scaffolding and reconstructing it when needed is worthwhile. - Maciej On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Mar 15, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Eric Seidel wrote: It seems the New XML Parser hasn't been touched in about 8 months: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/xml/parser Are there any plans to continue work on such, or can it be removed? The refactoring which was done to support it seems to mostly just confuse the HTML 5 Parser code... :( (I went looking for how something was implemented in the HTML5 parser... and it took me a long time to find it this afternoon). Yes, we plan to get more active on this effort again within a few months. Note that some of the refactoring was able to benefit the WebVTT parser, so we need some generic parser abstractions in any case. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Eric Seidel e...@webkit.org wrote: Checking back in: Curious if this effort is still underway. Adam and I would like to delete the New XML Parser if it's not needed in order to simplify the HTML 5 Parser again. :) We do tentatively plan to get back to it (the original implementor is currently working full-time at Apple on the WebKit team). As far as I can tell, no one has worked on the NEWXML code in over a year, the implementation doesn't work, and the code is disabled by all ports. It seems like we should remove it from trunk. We can retore it if/when someone is interested in working on it again. As far as simplifying the HTML5 parser - isn't most of the foundational work that touches the HTML5 parser also required for WebVTT, as mentioned by me in the email you quote below? Is there a big simplicity win to be had without breaking WebVTT? If so, we can think about whether removing the scaffolding and reconstructing it when needed is worthwhile. This is a separate issue. Adam On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Mar 15, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Eric Seidel wrote: It seems the New XML Parser hasn't been touched in about 8 months: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/xml/parser Are there any plans to continue work on such, or can it be removed? The refactoring which was done to support it seems to mostly just confuse the HTML 5 Parser code... :( (I went looking for how something was implemented in the HTML5 parser... and it took me a long time to find it this afternoon). Yes, we plan to get more active on this effort again within a few months. Note that some of the refactoring was able to benefit the WebVTT parser, so we need some generic parser abstractions in any case. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:48 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Eric Seidel e...@webkit.org wrote: Checking back in: Curious if this effort is still underway. Adam and I would like to delete the New XML Parser if it's not needed in order to simplify the HTML 5 Parser again. :) We do tentatively plan to get back to it (the original implementor is currently working full-time at Apple on the WebKit team). As far as I can tell, no one has worked on the NEWXML code in over a year, the implementation doesn't work, and the code is disabled by all ports. It seems like we should remove it from trunk. We can retore it if/when someone is interested in working on it again. What you describe as the current status is (afaik) correct. The data point I provided (since Eric asked) is that we do in fact plan to get back to it. As far as simplifying the HTML5 parser - isn't most of the foundational work that touches the HTML5 parser also required for WebVTT, as mentioned by me in the email you quote below? Is there a big simplicity win to be had without breaking WebVTT? If so, we can think about whether removing the scaffolding and reconstructing it when needed is worthwhile. This is a separate issue. If there's a reason to remove it other than simplify the HTML5 parser again, then certainly we can consider it. But that was the only reason Eric cited, so I wanted to check if it's actually the case, in light of WebVTT. I am still curious about the answer. But I'd be happy to discuss other reasons instead. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:48 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Eric Seidel e...@webkit.org wrote: Checking back in: Curious if this effort is still underway. Adam and I would like to delete the New XML Parser if it's not needed in order to simplify the HTML 5 Parser again. :) We do tentatively plan to get back to it (the original implementor is currently working full-time at Apple on the WebKit team). As far as I can tell, no one has worked on the NEWXML code in over a year, the implementation doesn't work, and the code is disabled by all ports. It seems like we should remove it from trunk. We can retore it if/when someone is interested in working on it again. What you describe as the current status is (afaik) correct. The data point I provided (since Eric asked) is that we do in fact plan to get back to it. As far as simplifying the HTML5 parser - isn't most of the foundational work that touches the HTML5 parser also required for WebVTT, as mentioned by me in the email you quote below? Is there a big simplicity win to be had without breaking WebVTT? If so, we can think about whether removing the scaffolding and reconstructing it when needed is worthwhile. This is a separate issue. If there's a reason to remove it other than simplify the HTML5 parser again, then certainly we can consider it. But that was the only reason Eric cited, so I wanted to check if it's actually the case, in light of WebVTT. I am still curious about the answer. But I'd be happy to discuss other reasons instead. My understanding is that we don't typically leave broken, unused code in trunk unless someone is actively working on it. Having this code around has costs and little benefit: 1) The code needs to be maintained. 2) The code confuses contributors who don't know that it's dead. By contrast, if someone wants to work on this code again, they can just revert the patch that removed it. They might need to do some maintenance work at that point, but that's work that otherwise would have to have been done by someone else. As for VTT, I suspect that the VTT parser doesn't need all the complexity that the HTML parser needs. It's doing a much simpler task and likely can be made much simpler by not try to share code with the HTML parser at all. Adam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Aug 27, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:48 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Eric Seidel e...@webkit.org wrote: Checking back in: Curious if this effort is still underway. Adam and I would like to delete the New XML Parser if it's not needed in order to simplify the HTML 5 Parser again. :) We do tentatively plan to get back to it (the original implementor is currently working full-time at Apple on the WebKit team). As far as I can tell, no one has worked on the NEWXML code in over a year, the implementation doesn't work, and the code is disabled by all ports. It seems like we should remove it from trunk. We can retore it if/when someone is interested in working on it again. What you describe as the current status is (afaik) correct. The data point I provided (since Eric asked) is that we do in fact plan to get back to it. As far as simplifying the HTML5 parser - isn't most of the foundational work that touches the HTML5 parser also required for WebVTT, as mentioned by me in the email you quote below? Is there a big simplicity win to be had without breaking WebVTT? If so, we can think about whether removing the scaffolding and reconstructing it when needed is worthwhile. This is a separate issue. If there's a reason to remove it other than simplify the HTML5 parser again, then certainly we can consider it. But that was the only reason Eric cited, so I wanted to check if it's actually the case, in light of WebVTT. I am still curious about the answer. But I'd be happy to discuss other reasons instead. My understanding is that we don't typically leave broken, unused code in trunk unless someone is actively working on it. Having this code around has costs and little benefit: 1) The code needs to be maintained. 2) The code confuses contributors who don't know that it's dead. By contrast, if someone wants to work on this code again, they can just revert the patch that removed it. They might need to do some maintenance work at that point, but that's work that otherwise would have to have been done by someone else. Ha! So the reason for removing the code is simplifying the HTML5 parser, just to undo the simplification once the original writer has the time to come back to it. Seems like well spend time :) Greetings, Dirk As for VTT, I suspect that the VTT parser doesn't need all the complexity that the HTML parser needs. It's doing a much simpler task and likely can be made much simpler by not try to share code with the HTML parser at all. Adam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Dirk Schulze dschu...@adobe.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:48 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Eric Seidel e...@webkit.org wrote: Checking back in: Curious if this effort is still underway. Adam and I would like to delete the New XML Parser if it's not needed in order to simplify the HTML 5 Parser again. :) We do tentatively plan to get back to it (the original implementor is currently working full-time at Apple on the WebKit team). As far as I can tell, no one has worked on the NEWXML code in over a year, the implementation doesn't work, and the code is disabled by all ports. It seems like we should remove it from trunk. We can retore it if/when someone is interested in working on it again. What you describe as the current status is (afaik) correct. The data point I provided (since Eric asked) is that we do in fact plan to get back to it. As far as simplifying the HTML5 parser - isn't most of the foundational work that touches the HTML5 parser also required for WebVTT, as mentioned by me in the email you quote below? Is there a big simplicity win to be had without breaking WebVTT? If so, we can think about whether removing the scaffolding and reconstructing it when needed is worthwhile. This is a separate issue. If there's a reason to remove it other than simplify the HTML5 parser again, then certainly we can consider it. But that was the only reason Eric cited, so I wanted to check if it's actually the case, in light of WebVTT. I am still curious about the answer. But I'd be happy to discuss other reasons instead. My understanding is that we don't typically leave broken, unused code in trunk unless someone is actively working on it. Having this code around has costs and little benefit: 1) The code needs to be maintained. 2) The code confuses contributors who don't know that it's dead. By contrast, if someone wants to work on this code again, they can just revert the patch that removed it. They might need to do some maintenance work at that point, but that's work that otherwise would have to have been done by someone else. Ha! So the reason for removing the code is simplifying the HTML5 parser, just to undo the simplification once the original writer has the time to come back to it. Seems like well spend time :) That depends on how likely it is that and when the original authors gets back to the work, hence Eric's question. Tentatively plan to get back to it makes it sound like it will be a while. Adam As for VTT, I suspect that the VTT parser doesn't need all the complexity that the HTML parser needs. It's doing a much simpler task and likely can be made much simpler by not try to share code with the HTML parser at all. Adam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Aug 27, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:48 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Eric Seidel e...@webkit.org wrote: Checking back in: Curious if this effort is still underway. Adam and I would like to delete the New XML Parser if it's not needed in order to simplify the HTML 5 Parser again. :) We do tentatively plan to get back to it (the original implementor is currently working full-time at Apple on the WebKit team). As far as I can tell, no one has worked on the NEWXML code in over a year, the implementation doesn't work, and the code is disabled by all ports. It seems like we should remove it from trunk. We can retore it if/when someone is interested in working on it again. What you describe as the current status is (afaik) correct. The data point I provided (since Eric asked) is that we do in fact plan to get back to it. As far as simplifying the HTML5 parser - isn't most of the foundational work that touches the HTML5 parser also required for WebVTT, as mentioned by me in the email you quote below? Is there a big simplicity win to be had without breaking WebVTT? If so, we can think about whether removing the scaffolding and reconstructing it when needed is worthwhile. This is a separate issue. If there's a reason to remove it other than simplify the HTML5 parser again, then certainly we can consider it. But that was the only reason Eric cited, so I wanted to check if it's actually the case, in light of WebVTT. I am still curious about the answer. But I'd be happy to discuss other reasons instead. My understanding is that we don't typically leave broken, unused code in trunk unless someone is actively working on it. Having this code around has costs and little benefit: 1) The code needs to be maintained. 2) The code confuses contributors who don't know that it's dead. By contrast, if someone wants to work on this code again, they can just revert the patch that removed it. They might need to do some maintenance work at that point, but that's work that otherwise would have to have been done by someone else. Do you have examples of actual confusion or undue additional maintenance? I think if those things were really happening, then that would make a decent argument for removing the code for the time being. From svn history, it doesn't look like the new xml parser code has been touched in quite some time, so I'm not seeing evidence for maintenance cost. But I could be overlooking other costs. As for VTT, I suspect that the VTT parser doesn't need all the complexity that the HTML parser needs. It's doing a much simpler task and likely can be made much simpler by not try to share code with the HTML parser at all. I think the main sharing in all three cases is the MarkupTokenBase and MarkupTokenizerBase base classes. So XML tokenizer causes (as far as I know) no additional abstraction or complexity beyond WebVTT. I am skeptical that either duplicating that particular code instead of sharing it, or rewriting the WebVTT tokenizer in some dramatically different way would be beneficial. Let's set the simplification argument aside unless there is some compelling concrete evidence for it (such as WebVTT hackers expressing interest in rewriting the WebVTT parser to not share code with HTML.) Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Aug 27, 2012, at 5:02 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Dirk Schulze dschu...@adobe.com wrote: Ha! So the reason for removing the code is simplifying the HTML5 parser, just to undo the simplification once the original writer has the time to come back to it. Seems like well spend time :) That depends on how likely it is that and when the original authors gets back to the work, hence Eric's question. Tentatively plan to get back to it makes it sound like it will be a while. It's not anyone's immediate current task, and I can't really make firm promises about future timelines. But we actually are seriously interested in finishing it. Cheers, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 3:48 PM, Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Eric Seidel e...@webkit.org wrote: Checking back in: Curious if this effort is still underway. Adam and I would like to delete the New XML Parser if it's not needed in order to simplify the HTML 5 Parser again. :) We do tentatively plan to get back to it (the original implementor is currently working full-time at Apple on the WebKit team). As far as I can tell, no one has worked on the NEWXML code in over a year, the implementation doesn't work, and the code is disabled by all ports. It seems like we should remove it from trunk. We can retore it if/when someone is interested in working on it again. What you describe as the current status is (afaik) correct. The data point I provided (since Eric asked) is that we do in fact plan to get back to it. As far as simplifying the HTML5 parser - isn't most of the foundational work that touches the HTML5 parser also required for WebVTT, as mentioned by me in the email you quote below? Is there a big simplicity win to be had without breaking WebVTT? If so, we can think about whether removing the scaffolding and reconstructing it when needed is worthwhile. This is a separate issue. If there's a reason to remove it other than simplify the HTML5 parser again, then certainly we can consider it. But that was the only reason Eric cited, so I wanted to check if it's actually the case, in light of WebVTT. I am still curious about the answer. But I'd be happy to discuss other reasons instead. My understanding is that we don't typically leave broken, unused code in trunk unless someone is actively working on it. Having this code around has costs and little benefit: 1) The code needs to be maintained. 2) The code confuses contributors who don't know that it's dead. By contrast, if someone wants to work on this code again, they can just revert the patch that removed it. They might need to do some maintenance work at that point, but that's work that otherwise would have to have been done by someone else. Do you have examples of actual confusion or undue additional maintenance? I think if those things were really happening, then that would make a decent argument for removing the code for the time being. From svn history, it doesn't look like the new xml parser code has been touched in quite some time, so I'm not seeing evidence for maintenance cost. But I could be overlooking other costs. Both these things have happened with this code, albeit not often. How we parse XML is already confusing because we have two separate XMLDocumentParsers that are actually used (and, of course, a third one that isn't ever used). As for VTT, I suspect that the VTT parser doesn't need all the complexity that the HTML parser needs. It's doing a much simpler task and likely can be made much simpler by not try to share code with the HTML parser at all. I think the main sharing in all three cases is the MarkupTokenBase and MarkupTokenizerBase base classes. So XML tokenizer causes (as far as I know) no additional abstraction or complexity beyond WebVTT. I am skeptical that either duplicating that particular code instead of sharing it, or rewriting the WebVTT tokenizer in some dramatically different way would be beneficial. Let's set the simplification argument aside unless there is some compelling concrete evidence for it (such as WebVTT hackers expressing interest in rewriting the WebVTT parser to not share code with HTML.) My position is simple: the code is broken and unused. As a general rule, we shouldn't keep broken, unused code in the tree for extended periods of time. Therefore, we should remove it. On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: It's not anyone's immediate current task, and I can't really make firm promises about future timelines. But we actually are seriously interested in finishing it. There's no urgency in removing it. If you're serious about working on it, perhaps we should keep it around for another six months. Adam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Is the New XMLParser dead?
On Mar 15, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Eric Seidel wrote: It seems the New XML Parser hasn't been touched in about 8 months: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/xml/parser Are there any plans to continue work on such, or can it be removed? The refactoring which was done to support it seems to mostly just confuse the HTML 5 Parser code... :( (I went looking for how something was implemented in the HTML5 parser... and it took me a long time to find it this afternoon). Yes, we plan to get more active on this effort again within a few months. Note that some of the refactoring was able to benefit the WebVTT parser, so we need some generic parser abstractions in any case. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
