Re: [webkit-dev] Port-specific OpenType support
On Sep 15, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Martin Robinson mrobin...@webkit.org wrote: request that the work be done using cross-platform abstractions, so that it can be shared I looked at http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/173521 and I didn’t see anything platform-specific there. So I think we’re already on the right track. — Darin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Port-specific OpenType support
On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Tim Horton thor...@apple.com wrote: On 2014.09.14, at 01:11, Dirk Schulze k...@webkit.org wrote: On Sep 11, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Martin Robinson mrobin...@webkit.org wrote: WebKitGTK+ supports OpenType natively and I as far as I know we have no problems dropping support for SVG fonts. If SVG fonts are supported by the Mac port though, we will probably still want to maintain support for our own port, if possible. SVG Fonts live in the non-platform WebCore space. Dropping support for one platform but keeping the code around for another wouldn’t be of any benefit for WebCore as a whole. Agreed (but I don’t think the original email was suggesting that; pretty sure Myles was just gauging whether there were any ports that don’t have OT support but need SVG fonts, which would preclude switching over to the translation approach). Sorry. I probably should have been less obscure about this, but this was a gentle request that the work be done using cross-platform abstractions, so that it can be shared. If that's difficult or impossible, we'll figure something else out. :) --Martin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Port-specific OpenType support
Sorry for all the confusion on this. Let me clarify the proposal: I am not proposing dropping support for SVG fonts. I am proposing transcoding SVG fonts on-the-fly, at page-load time, to OpenType fonts, then delivering the OpenType fonts to the underlying platform (just as if the original page was using a web OTF font in the first place). 100% of this work is platform-agnostic. Once this converter is in place, it will mean that we can remove all of our custom SVG-font-rendering code in WebCore (because the platform will be responsible for drawing the text instead of WebCore), which would be a very good thing for the many reasons listed earlier. With this in mind, my original question should make more sense - are there any ports who want support for SVG fonts but whose platforms don’t support OpenType? It sounds like the GTK platform supports OTF, which means they are likely okay with this proposal. mrobinson: is that correct? Thanks, Myles On Sep 15, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Martin Robinson mrobin...@webkit.org wrote: On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Tim Horton thor...@apple.com wrote: On 2014.09.14, at 01:11, Dirk Schulze k...@webkit.org wrote: On Sep 11, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Martin Robinson mrobin...@webkit.org wrote: WebKitGTK+ supports OpenType natively and I as far as I know we have no problems dropping support for SVG fonts. If SVG fonts are supported by the Mac port though, we will probably still want to maintain support for our own port, if possible. SVG Fonts live in the non-platform WebCore space. Dropping support for one platform but keeping the code around for another wouldn’t be of any benefit for WebCore as a whole. Agreed (but I don’t think the original email was suggesting that; pretty sure Myles was just gauging whether there were any ports that don’t have OT support but need SVG fonts, which would preclude switching over to the translation approach). Sorry. I probably should have been less obscure about this, but this was a gentle request that the work be done using cross-platform abstractions, so that it can be shared. If that's difficult or impossible, we'll figure something else out. :) --Martin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Port-specific OpenType support
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Myles C. Maxfield mmaxfi...@apple.com wrote: With this in mind, my original question should make more sense - are there any ports who want support for SVG fonts but whose platforms don’t support OpenType? It sounds like the GTK platform supports OTF, which means they are likely okay with this proposal. mrobinson: is that correct? Thanks for the clarification. All platforms that WebKitGTK+ supports have OpenType support, so the plan will likely work for us. --Martin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Port-specific OpenType support
Previous attempts to drop SVG Fonts failed because SVG Fonts were used in older iOS version without WOFF support a lot. My latest unofficial/informal attempt was a couple of weeks ago by asking one Apple representative. What changed since then? Greetings, Dirk On Sep 11, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Martin Robinson mrobin...@webkit.org wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Myles C. Maxfield mmaxfi...@apple.com wrote: My question to WebKit-Dev is: Are there any ports who: 1) Want continued support for SVG fonts, and 2) Whose platforms do not support OpenType fonts natively? WebKitGTK+ supports OpenType natively and I as far as I know we have no problems dropping support for SVG fonts. If SVG fonts are supported by the Mac port though, we will probably still want to maintain support for our own port, if possible. --Martin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Port-specific OpenType support
On 2014.09.14, at 01:11, Dirk Schulze k...@webkit.org wrote: On Sep 11, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Martin Robinson mrobin...@webkit.org wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Myles C. Maxfield mmaxfi...@apple.com wrote: My question to WebKit-Dev is: Are there any ports who: 1) Want continued support for SVG fonts, and 2) Whose platforms do not support OpenType fonts natively? WebKitGTK+ supports OpenType natively and I as far as I know we have no problems dropping support for SVG fonts. If SVG fonts are supported by the Mac port though, we will probably still want to maintain support for our own port, if possible. SVG Fonts live in the non-platform WebCore space. Dropping support for one platform but keeping the code around for another wouldn’t be of any benefit for WebCore as a whole. Agreed (but I don’t think the original email was suggesting that; pretty sure Myles was just gauging whether there were any ports that don’t have OT support but need SVG fonts, which would preclude switching over to the translation approach). Adobe’s TypeKit team dropped support for SVG Fonts a couple of months ago and got very view complains. OT should be supported for WebKitGTK+ from the beginning and is a better replacement for WebCore’s SVG Font implementation in any possible way. It is much less likely that content for WebKitGTK+ uses SVG Fonts than for content for iOS. And even Apple seems to be willing to drop support now. As mentioned recently, we probably can’t drop support outright, but if Myles’ experiment with translating straightforward (no color/animation/etc.) SVG fonts to OpenType and rendering them that way pans out (which it seems like it’s going to), we can remove a good deal of scary code and do it that way instead (that should cover most-if-not-all of the cases that block us from removing support entirely). Greetings, Dirk --Martin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Port-specific OpenType support
On Sep 11, 2014, at 11:44 AM, Myles C. Maxfield mmaxfi...@apple.com wrote: Hello, Webkittens! I have started work on an SVG font - OpenType converter [1] with the intent of eventually getting rid of our code path which lays out and draws text using SVG fonts. The motivation is fourfold: 1) Performance: on OS X the native text libraries are over 1000x faster than our SVG code path. 2) Security: There have been numerous security bugs in the SVG font code path. 3) Code clarity: This would greatly simplify the text rendering code. 4) The next version of SVG is removing SVG fonts completely [2]. Chrome has recently dropped support for SVG fonts [3] and Firefox/IE never had it [4] [5]. 5) Correctness: using an SVG font will no longer mean you don’t get subpixel antialiasing (and perhaps other text effects?) ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Port-specific OpenType support
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Myles C. Maxfield mmaxfi...@apple.com wrote: My question to WebKit-Dev is: Are there any ports who: 1) Want continued support for SVG fonts, and 2) Whose platforms do not support OpenType fonts natively? WebKitGTK+ supports OpenType natively and I as far as I know we have no problems dropping support for SVG fonts. If SVG fonts are supported by the Mac port though, we will probably still want to maintain support for our own port, if possible. --Martin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
