Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal to remove list-item special counter

2013-01-17 Thread L. David Baron
On Wednesday 2013-01-16 18:25 -0800, Darin Adler wrote:
 On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:46 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.org wrote:
 
  I've scoured the web and can't find any reference to anyone using it, 
  mention of it's usage on any pages and no other browser supports it.
 
 How much more common is use of the rest of the counters specification? I 
 understand that counters is still a leading-edge feature that isn’t likely to 
 be used much on the real web yet.
 
 The list-item counter is used in the very first example in the CSS Lists and 
 Counters Module http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-lists/. I don’t understand why 
 you are so eager to throw it under the bus.
 
  In terms of harm, it adds implementation complexity, especially when I want 
  to rewrite counters to be much simpler and faster.
  
  I'd like to go ahead with the removal and then we can bring this back if 
  developers show interest. Does that sound reasonable?
 
 If you really want to remove it, and all the other browser vendors agree, 
 maybe you can get it removed from the CSS working draft.

For what it's worth, reimplementing Gecko's list numbering using
counters is something I'd like to do; it's just not so high on the
priority list these days.  (Our current list numbering code has a
bunch of weird bugs that our counter implementation does not have.
That said, I think implementing list numbering using counters might
require implementing the new 'counter-set' in addition to the
existing 'counter-increment' and 'counter-reset'.)

-David

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턞   L. David Baron http://dbaron.org/   턂
턢   Mozilla   http://www.mozilla.org/   턂
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Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal to remove list-item special counter

2013-01-16 Thread Elliott Sprehn
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Darin Adler da...@apple.com wrote:

 On Aug 15, 2012, at 2:29 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.org wrote:

  WebKit is the only browser that implements the magic counter named
 list-item and we have no tests for it.

 Seems like we really ought to add some tests for it.

  It's not useful since we don't support the ::marker pseudo element

 Maybe it can’t be used for its best and most obvious uses without
 ::marker, but it still work and can be used for some things. Here’s an
 example of it doing some good:

 style #list-count:before { counter-increment: list-item -1; content:
 counter(list-item); } /style
 ol
  liA/li
  liB/li
  liC/li
 /ol
 The list above has span id=list-count/span items in it.

 I’m still OK with removing it if there is an argument that the current
 implementation does more harm than good.


I've scoured the web and can't find any reference to anyone using it,
mention of it's usage on any pages and no other browser supports it. In
terms of harm, it adds implementation complexity, especially when I want to
rewrite counters to be much simpler and faster.

I'd like to go ahead with the removal and then we can bring this back if
developers show interest. Does that sound reasonable?

- E
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Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal to remove list-item special counter

2013-01-16 Thread Darin Adler
On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:46 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.org wrote:

 I've scoured the web and can't find any reference to anyone using it, mention 
 of it's usage on any pages and no other browser supports it.

How much more common is use of the rest of the counters specification? I 
understand that counters is still a leading-edge feature that isn’t likely to 
be used much on the real web yet.

The list-item counter is used in the very first example in the CSS Lists and 
Counters Module http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-lists/. I don’t understand why you 
are so eager to throw it under the bus.

 In terms of harm, it adds implementation complexity, especially when I want 
 to rewrite counters to be much simpler and faster.
 
 I'd like to go ahead with the removal and then we can bring this back if 
 developers show interest. Does that sound reasonable?

If you really want to remove it, and all the other browser vendors agree, maybe 
you can get it removed from the CSS working draft.

If someone showed up today saying they wanted to add it, I would support that, 
so I’m still not convinced that removing it is the way to go.

-- Darin
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Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal to remove list-item special counter

2012-08-15 Thread Benjamin Poulain
 Can I remove this feature?

See http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/DeprecatingFeatures
It would be nice to first have some usage data.

Benjamin
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Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal to remove list-item special counter

2012-08-15 Thread Eric Seidel
Since it sounds like it doesn't do anything, then yes.  Removing it
sounds like the correct course of action.  Someone who later
implements ::marker or lands CSS3-list tests, can revert your patch.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.org wrote:
 WebKit is the only browser that implements the magic counter named
 list-item and we have no tests for it. This is from the CSS3 Lists module
 (http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/). This special counter was added back
 in the initial implementation of CSS counters 6 years ago.

 ex.

 style li:before { content: ( counter(list-item) ); } /style

 ol
  li
 /ol

 It's not useful since we don't support the ::marker psuedo element, nor does
 any other browser. The above example outputs (2) since the implied counter
 increment is on the list marker which we don't actually support. I can't
 find references to this thing in Google outside the spec itself either.

 Can I remove this feature?

 - Elliott

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Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal to remove list-item special counter

2012-08-15 Thread Darin Adler
On Aug 15, 2012, at 2:29 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.org wrote:

 WebKit is the only browser that implements the magic counter named 
 list-item and we have no tests for it.

Seems like we really ought to add some tests for it.

 It's not useful since we don't support the ::marker pseudo element

Maybe it can’t be used for its best and most obvious uses without ::marker, but 
it still work and can be used for some things. Here’s an example of it doing 
some good:

style #list-count:before { counter-increment: list-item -1; content: 
counter(list-item); } /style
ol
 liA/li
 liB/li
 liC/li
/ol
The list above has span id=list-count/span items in it.

I’m still OK with removing it if there is an argument that the current 
implementation does more harm than good.

-- Darin
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