Re: Wonder BugTracker

Yes, sorry 5.4.1 merci Pascal > Message du 07/05/08 à 17h18 > De : "Pascal Robert" > A : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Copie à : "webobjects-dev" > Objet : Re: Wonder BugTracker > > I hope you want to use 5.4.1, not 5.1.4 :-) > > > Should the Wonder Bugtracker (FrontBase) example work on WO5.1.4 ? > > I

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm going to digest this and reformulate my model. I'll let you know how it goes. Hmmm... It's nice to be involved in WO again. Good programming. Good folks. Jaime Magiera Sensory Research http://www.sensoryresearch.net _

Re: Getting WebObjects Javadoc to appear in eclipse

I'm not certain if that property has any effect at all actually. Mike may have an idea. Perhaps it's a work-in-progress? It used to ... But no javadoc appears when I select anything classes in WO. The normal Eclipse thing to do is to go, for example, to your project's build path expand a l

Re: Inheritance...

On May 7, 2008, at 7:55 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: Vertical or horizontal? With vertical this will still select on the root, won't it? That's actually a good question. It will have to select against the root, obviously, to pick up those attributes, but I don't think it then calls all the ot

Re: Inheritance...

Vertical or horizontal? With vertical this will still select on the root, won't it? That's actually a good question. It will have to select against the root, obviously, to pick up those attributes, but I don't think it then calls all the other siblings if you call against a leaf node, bu

Re: NSSelector - a curiosity

On 08/05/2008, at 12:07 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 7, 2008, at 7:01 PM, Michael Scott wrote: Thanks Stephanie and Mike. NSSelector works fine, and it makes the code clearer. Any idea while the language has this Void class? Something to do with void/null/”” Strings? The JavaDocs say

Re: Inheritance...

Thanks everyone from preventing me to learn the hard way... Apparently my choices are single-table or horizontal. A question: assuming I intend to perform individual fetches for each entity anyway, that there will be no direct fetching on the root entity, and that there will be maybe 100 re

(no subject)

Thanks everyone from preventing me to learn the hard way... Apparently my choices are single-table or horizontal. A question: assuming I intend to perform individual fetches for each entity anyway, that there will be no direct fetching on the root entity, and that there will be maybe 100 re

Re: NSSelector - a curiosity

On May 7, 2008, at 7:01 PM, Michael Scott wrote: Thanks Stephanie and Mike. NSSelector works fine, and it makes the code clearer. Any idea while the language has this Void class? Something to do with void/null/”” Strings? The JavaDocs say "The Void class is an uninstantiable placeholder

Re: NSSelector - a curiosity

Thanks Stephanie and Mike. NSSelector works fine, and it makes the code clearer. Any idea while the language has this Void class? Something to do with void/null/²² Strings? Cheers Michael On 8/5/08 2:55 AM, "Mike Schrag" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This compiles, at least ... Good to know.

Re: Getting WebObjects Javadoc to appear in eclipse

On May 7, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Lachlan Deck wrote: Hi Greg, On 07/05/2008, at 4:31 PM, Greg Hulands wrote: I'm having trouble getting the javadoc to appear in eclipse for the WO frameworks. I have in my ~/Library/wobuild.properties file #This file stores the wo specific properties #Tue Apr

Re: WO Tutorials

Guess I should forget about creating an installer for other platforms, eh? :) --- Wow, if you can provide the steps on how to do it I will create a tutorial. I am still having trouble with my windows machine running apps in eclipse. I do all of my development on a Mac normally, however

Re: Inheritance...

On 08/05/2008, at 6:27 AM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 7, 2008, at 1:14 PM, Robert Walker wrote: The only time vertical inheritance makes sense if when you always fetch against leaf nodes of the inheritance tree and only if the inheritance tree is very shallow. Take that to mean one level deep

Re: Wonder BugTracker

Hi François, I've just updated the Getting Started page with a correction about the new dependencies on DerbyPlugin and ERChronic that weren't there when I originally wrote the page. I have also added an alternate method for getting started that should be considerably easier than importin

Re: After converting from 5.3 XCode to Eclipse and 5.4

It seems I added the WebServerResources directory as a web server resource, that made the build confused and it added one more level: WebServerResources/WebServerResources/some.jpg Removing the directory WebServerResources with WOLips tools -> exclude as WebServerResource did the trick! T

Re: Getting WebObjects Javadoc to appear in eclipse

Hi Greg, On 07/05/2008, at 4:31 PM, Greg Hulands wrote: I'm having trouble getting the javadoc to appear in eclipse for the WO frameworks. I have in my ~/Library/wobuild.properties file #This file stores the wo specific properties #Tue Apr 08 11:24:10 PDT 2008 wo.wosystemroot=/System wo.wol

Re: Inheritance...

I believe that it does select against all the other nodes as well. I remember seeing a lot of DB traffic with Vertical and wondering why it would need to select against the tables for the other subclasses. The only fault I can see with Single Table is that it can cause constraint difficulti

Re: Inheritance...

On May 7, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Guido Neitzer wrote: On 07.05.2008, at 14:08, Mike Schrag wrote: I would recommend AGAINST horizontal here -- You have 10 entities in your hierarchy, which means 10 fetches every time you need to fault an object of the root entity. I second Chuck on using singl

Re: Inheritance...

On May 7, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Robert Walker wrote: Vertical or horizontal? With vertical this will still select on the root, won't it? That's actually a good question. It will have to select against the root, obviously, to pick up those attributes, but I don't think it then calls all the

Re: Inheritance...

Vertical or horizontal? With vertical this will still select on the root, won't it? That's actually a good question. It will have to select against the root, obviously, to pick up those attributes, but I don't think it then calls all the other siblings if you call against a leaf node, bu

Re: After converting from 5.3 XCode to Eclipse and 5.4

Does your images are in a "images" folder (inside WebServerResources) by any chance ? If yes, when you call your images inside a WOImage component, do you specify the "images" folder ? Example: WebServerRersouces images info.png MyImag

Re: Inheritance...

On 07.05.2008, at 14:08, Mike Schrag wrote: I would recommend AGAINST horizontal here -- You have 10 entities in your hierarchy, which means 10 fetches every time you need to fault an object of the root entity. I second Chuck on using single table. Yes, your database is uglier, and you lo

Re: After converting from 5.3 XCode to Eclipse and 5.4

I tried your advise I still get the same errors. I noticed that the WOLips ant tool doesn't split install correctly. Shouldn't there be an app dir in the document root of apache? The problem still exists when developing using direct connect. BTW I use Eclipse Version: 3.3.2 Build id: M200802

Re: Inheritance...

On May 7, 2008, at 1:14 PM, Robert Walker wrote: Agreed, The only time vertical inheritance makes sense if when you always fetch against leaf nodes of the inheritance tree and only if the inheritance tree is very shallow. Take that to mean one level deep of inheritance with an abstract r

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

On 07.05.2008, at 13:33, Tonny Staunsbrink wrote: I too have been in trouble when working with inheritance in eof. I think the only reason for using inheritance in the eo model is in case you want to make sql based (datebase based) queries at the base of the inheritance hierarchy. In all ot

Re: Inheritance...

Agreed, The only time vertical inheritance makes sense if when you always fetch against leaf nodes of the inheritance tree and only if the inheritance tree is very shallow. Take that to mean one level deep of inheritance with an abstract root entity that you never fetch against. Anything

Re: Inheritance...

You might want to check for suicide exclusions in your life insurance policy. :-) David Avendasora was using Vertical with JC. He stopped. Maybe he can provide some pointers. My advice would be to ignore that "Subentities will have a sufficient amount of their own properties" and use Sin

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

In fact, Mike - since I don't have the time to participate actively on the lists it's difficult to get gratitude across - but still, your code is responsible for a whole lot of critical government systems up here in Iceland. And hopefully, that will increase even more soon, since we are ope

Re: Inheritance...

On May 7, 2008, at 12:48 PM, Florijan Stamenkovic wrote: Hi all, In the "[slightly OT] data modeling question" there is some talk of drawbacks of inheritance, specifically of vertical inheritance... Since I am currently contemplating implementing a reasonably complex system, and have tho

Inheritance...

Hi all, In the "[slightly OT] data modeling question" there is some talk of drawbacks of inheritance, specifically of vertical inheritance... Since I am currently contemplating implementing a reasonably complex system, and have thought of using vertical inheritance, this has got me worrie

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

I haven't actually checked out ERTaggable yet. Is it good? Is it GOOD? Come on, now :) Lol, sorry Mike. Checking it out now :-). It does require Wonder buy-in, though ... If you're not using the rest of Wonder, you're on your own :) Oh trust me, I'm using Wonder. Seriously, I don't thin

Re: Out of memory

I've never used jconsole, but you should be able to use JProfiler to see exactly what's being held onto. ms On May 7, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Andrew Lindesay wrote: Hello Miguel & David; Aren't you just pulling too many data at the same time from the DB? If that were true then one might expect

Re: Out of memory

Hello Miguel & David; Aren't you just pulling too many data at the same time from the DB? If that were true then one might expect the same failure to exhibit itself after a change of database, but this is not the case. Use a simple profiler, like JProfiler or jconsole to track the memory

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

On May 07, 2008, at 15:03, Hugi Þórðarson wrote: They're responsible for the Icelandic Krona (at least until we finally enter the EU and make the switch to the Euro ;-). Good luck with that :) I've been using their service and it's very reliable - but as you say, there are not many curren

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

I too have been in trouble when working with inheritance in eof. I think the only reason for using inheritance in the eo model is in case you want to make sql based (datebase based) queries at the base of the inheritance hierarchy. In all other circumstances i would try to avoid inheritance. Note t

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

I've long since stopped trying to use inheritance since I always seem to run into trouble. So my advice is always to stay away from it - which is a shame since it sounds cool - and perhaps it's just me and my lacklustre programming skills - but I never found it worth the complexity. FWIW,

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

I haven't actually checked out ERTaggable yet. Is it good? Is it GOOD? Come on, now :) Lol, sorry Mike. Checking it out now :-). It does require Wonder buy-in, though ... If you're not using the rest of Wonder, you're on your own :) ms ___ Do n

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

I haven't actually checked out ERTaggable yet. Is it good? Is it GOOD? Come on, now :) Lol, sorry Mike. Checking it out now :-). - h // Hugi Thordarson // http://hugi.karlmenn.is/ ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

On May 7, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Hugi Þórðarson wrote: It's not just "A bank", it's "The bank" - the Icelandic Federal Reserve :-). They're responsible for the Icelandic Krona (at least until we finally enter the EU and make the switch to the Euro ;-). I've been using their service and it's ve

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

Hi! On 2008/05/07, at 19:48, Florijan Stamenkovic wrote: As for the Dashboard widget, the list of currencies supported is quite small, and besides, is using that legal? The dashboard calls a public URL in Yahoo, I suppose. Is opening a public URL illegal? :) Yours Miguel Arroz Migu

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

I haven't actually checked out ERTaggable yet. Is it good? Naw, Mike wrote it. It's shite. :-P LOL - yup. That guy's a real pain :-). Anyway. I've long since stopped trying to use inheritance since I always seem to run into trouble. So my advice is always to stay away from it - which

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

I haven't actually checked out ERTaggable yet. Is it good? Is it GOOD? Come on, now :) I use it in almost all of our apps, now ... It's inspired by acts_as_taggable from Rails, and I tried to come up with the way to make it as minimally invasive as possible (meaning -- you do the least am

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

On May 7, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Hugi Þórðarson wrote: I haven't actually checked out ERTaggable yet. Is it good? Naw, Mike wrote it. It's shite. :-P Anyone have good usage examples? I'm curious, since what comes out of Wonder is usually at the very least conceptually interesting. (and it

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

It's not just "A bank", it's "The bank" - the Icelandic Federal Reserve :-). They're responsible for the Icelandic Krona (at least until we finally enter the EU and make the switch to the Euro ;-). I've been using their service and it's very reliable - but as you say, there are not many cur

Re: How to have WebObjects documentation to show in Eclipse

This has been broken and fixed and broken again for some time. You can check JIRA for a bug, but I imagine it will be fixed when the new classpath management is done. What I've done before it just removed the WebObjects Frameworks entry from the build path and instead created a User Library with

Re: NSSelector - a curiosity

This compiles, at least ... Good to know. NSDictionary a = new NSMutableDictionaryVoid>(); ms On May 7, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Stephane Guyot wrote: Michael, did you try the type Class Void ? something like Void.Type ? HTH, Stephane Le 7 mai 08 à 09:35, Michael Scott a écrit : NSSelecto

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

I haven't actually checked out ERTaggable yet. Is it good? Anyone have good usage examples? I'm curious, since what comes out of Wonder is usually at the very least conceptually interesting. (and it's f***-ing discouraging to have a couple of developers pump out new features faster than I h

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

I actually might do that, relying on a bank's stability does not seem a bad idea, but the list of currencies is very short. 15 or something there... I need to be able to cover virtually anything. F On May 07, 2008, at 14:18, Hugi Þórðarson wrote: The Central Bank of Iceland maintains a free

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

Hm, they do provide CSV formatted info, though embedded in a webpage and it does not seem to be exposed through a public URL. Which kinda makes sense for a site with commercial adds. A pity, their list of currencies is exhaustive. As for the Dashboard widget, the list of currencies supporte

Re: NSSelector - a curiosity

Michael, did you try the type Class Void ? something like Void.Type ? HTH, Stephane Le 7 mai 08 à 09:35, Michael Scott a écrit : NSSelector works fine. But it is a bit wonky. Perhaps Java should allow 'null' as a type argument. Probably a bit much to ask just to make an old NextStep class

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

Hi! The first idea that comes to my mind is a Characteristic entity (name might not be the best one, remember I'm not a native english speaker) with a code or name to identify which is it (color, size, etc) and a value. Then, relation To-Many from product to characteristic. Yours Mig

Re: [slightly OT] data modeling question

You could use a tagging system. Wirehose has such a thing and I think that Wonder does too. You could then use the tags to even drill to a set of products. The tags could have validation logic based upon the type of product. Just some thoughts. James Cicenia On May 7, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Jai

[slightly OT] data modeling question

Heyya, This is slightly off-topic, but I figure fellow WO developers might have input: I'm rewriting the store functionality of ThoughtConduit and need to decide on a more refined version of my EOModel. In particular, I want Products to be able to handle things such as size and color (for

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

The Central Bank of Iceland maintains a free service that allows you to fetch the current exchange rate of the Icelandic Krona (ISK) against other currencies. If you're adventurous, I guess you could use that as your data source and extrapolate the exchange rates you need, using ISK as the

Re: WO Tutorials

If you are on Leopard, try Screenflow. This is what Mike and David are using. Does Captivate can export to Flash with the MP4 codec ? It would allow us to put your podcasts in the iTunes feeds and on the wocommunity.org site with the other podcasts. Wow, if you can provide the steps on

Re: WO Tutorials

My one comment would be to avoid the glitzy effects like the swirling text instructions at the start. I found them more annoying than anything. Chuck On May 7, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Don Lindsay wrote: Hello; I wanted to create a sample tutorial first to ensure I was on track. I was then

Re: WO Tutorials

Wow, if you can provide the steps on how to do it I will create a tutorial. I am still having trouble with my windows machine running apps in eclipse. I do all of my development on a Mac normally, however I could not find a program that was as good as Adobe Captivate that ran on the mac.

Re: WO Tutorials

Hello; I wanted to create a sample tutorial first to ensure I was on track. I was then gong to create: How to Install WOLips How to Install the runtime on Windows Creating a first WO Application (worldhello) W/O EO Model Static content Creating a first WO Application (worldhello1) W/O EO Mod

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

Hi http://www.oanda.com/convert/fxdaily I don't know if there's a "machine readable" version, neither the costs, nor the reliability, but it's the site I used to use to do this kind of stuff before using the Dashboard widget. BTW what about the site the dashboard widget uses? Yours

How to have WebObjects documentation to show in Eclipse

Hi, Does anybody know how to configure Eclipse so that the WebObjects javadoc shows when I hover a WebObjects class? I have added the javadoc view by going into Windows > Show View > Javadoc. However, Eclipse doesn't know where the javadoc is located for WebObjects classes. _

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

On May 07, 2008, at 13:30, Simon McLean wrote: we use xe.com. we get an xml conversion file once per day that we parse and then have methods to handle conversions. it's about 400 USD per annum in think, which is very good value for a reliable service. Ouch... we tried and tested quite a

Re: NSSelector - a curiosity

On May 07, 2008, at 03:35, Michael Scott wrote: NSSelector works fine. But it is a bit wonky. It is entirely wonky. Well, generics :) Perhaps Java should allow 'null' as a type argument. If done, using 'null' as a type argument would still imply something different then using 'void' as

Re: OT: Daily currency conversion lists

we use xe.com. we get an xml conversion file once per day that we parse and then have methods to handle conversions. it's about 400 USD per annum in think, which is very good value for a reliable service. we tried and tested quite a few free services and, well, you get what you pay for.

Re: NSSelector - a curiosity

new NSSelector ? is only valid as n "lvalue" ... You can't instantiate a ? generic. Probably is the best you can do with this. ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@li

OT: Daily currency conversion lists

Does anyone use a WebService (preferably free) that provides daily currency conversion rates, and parses them automatically into EOF? If so, could you tell which service you provide? Also, example or common code most welcome F ___ Do not post

Re: NSSelector - a curiosity

Maybe something like the this? NSSelector selector = new NSSelector("testMethod"); On May 7, 2008, at 12:35 AM, Michael Scott wrote: NSSelector works fine. But it is a bit wonky. Perhaps Java should allow 'null' as a type argument. Probably a bit much to ask just to make an old

Re: WO Tutorials

On May 6, 2008, at 9:20 PM, Don Lindsay wrote: Hello; Please visit http://web.mac.com/pccdonl/index.html, I created a short installation tutorial as an example. I think this is the kind of thing we need for beginner users of WOLips/WebObjects. Please give me your feedback. Don Is the

Re: Out of memory

Thanks Miguel I had not used jconsole before nice, simple and free. I have some background processes that risk running out of memory such as importing millions of rows of data from CSV files and creating EO's. I know that EC recycling and many other strategies are recommended and

Re: WOLips Cheat Sheet

The only danger in this is if you are working on multiple projects with different rules on when to use import com.foo.bar.*; Like, for example, maybe the Wonder projects. In that case you want to ensure that each project has "use projects specific settings" checked off or you next commit

Re: Wonder BugTracker

We don't expect anything in Wonder to work in anything except WO 5.4.2. If it does work in 5.4.1, then that's great. ms On May 7, 2008, at 11:13 AM, Francois Bientz wrote: Should the Wonder Bugtracker (FrontBase) example work on WO5.1.4 ? I followed the http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluen

Re: WOLips Cheat Sheet

On 7-May-08, at 10:55 AM, Denis Frolov wrote: I think it makes sense to turn on "Organize imports" in Preferences -> Java -> Editor -> Save Actions to have your imports organized automatically upon each save. Thanks Denis! I've added that to the Organize Imports note. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at

Re: Wonder BugTracker

I hope you want to use 5.4.1, not 5.1.4 :-) Should the Wonder Bugtracker (FrontBase) example work on WO5.1.4 ? I followed the http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WONDER/Getting+Started+with+BugTracker tutorial. Many errors in Console ... franc

Wonder BugTracker

Should the Wonder Bugtracker (FrontBase) example work on WO5.1.4 ? I followed the http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WONDER/Getting+Started+with+BugTracker tutorial. Many errors in Console ... franc Vous aussi bénéficiez d'1 Go d

Re: Out of memory

Hi! Aren't you just pulling too many data at the same time from the DB? Note that if you pull x MBs on a single fetch, you'll need n * x MBs to process all the data and create the EOs, being n something around 2 or 3 or maybe even more. This, combined with the default small heap space t

Re: Out of memory

hi David, Look, it seems to me that is not a problem of db, OutOfMemoryError is an error that occurs when Java has no more Memory avviable. check this: http://members.cisecurity.org/kb/article.php?id=023 2008/5/7 David Griffith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi all, > > Does anyone know if there is a fi

Re: WOLips Cheat Sheet

I think it makes sense to turn on "Organize imports" in Preferences -> Java -> Editor -> Save Actions to have your imports organized automatically upon each save. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 6:16 PM, David LeBer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Morning all, > > I whipped up a WOLips Cheat Sheet. > >

Re: Out of memory

Hi all, Does anyone know if there is a fix for this, other than moving from mySQL to another DB? I am experiencing the same problems. Regards, David. On 21 Apr 2008, at 19:04, Simon McLean wrote: Yes, I've seen it with MySQL. We still get it now, but very very rarely. Simon On 21 Apr

Re: WO Tutorials

I see it's captured under Windows. Suggestion for the next tutorial: How to get WO 5.3 on Windows in three steps (only the stuff that is needed for basic Development, no wotaskd, no monitor) ;-) Oliver Am 07.05.2008 um 06:20 schrieb Don Lindsay: Hello; Please visit http://web.mac.com/pccd

Re: WO Tutorials

Select WOLips Goodies Win? Hm... Select WOLips Goodies Mac! ;) atze Am 07.05.2008 um 06:20 schrieb Don Lindsay: Hello; Please visit http://web.mac.com/pccdonl/index.html, I created a short installation tutorial as an example. I think this is the kind of thing we need for beginne

WOLips Cheat Sheet

Morning all, I whipped up a WOLips Cheat Sheet. It's Mac-centric I'm afraid (though I'd be happy to do one for one of those *other* platforms if someone wants to translate ;-) I'm sure I've missed a short-cut or two that you find absolutely essential, please

Re: WO Tutorials

I am using Captivate, Which exports to Flash. Don On May 7, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Florijan Stamenkovic wrote: Don, Nicely done! I'm all up for tutorials that a 3 year old could follow. It doesn't hurt :) Btw., what software did you use for UI -> Flash? It seems a very bandwidth friendly way

Re: WO Tutorials

Don, Nicely done! I'm all up for tutorials that a 3 year old could follow. It doesn't hurt :) Btw., what software did you use for UI -> Flash? It seems a very bandwidth friendly way of screencasting... F On May 07, 2008, at 00:20, Don Lindsay wrote: Hello; Please visit http://web.mac.

Address System using QAS

Hi All Just a long shot but has anyone used the QAS address verification engine and integrated with WO? Basically a SOAP engine that allows POSTCODE to full address requests... GIno ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignor

Re: [OT] Eclipse and MBP

Hi! What's your graphics card? ATI or NVidia? These new MacBook Pros are a really bad in terms of stability. I don't have graphic problems , but every-time I turn on wireless, the chaos is all around. Here goes my graphic hardware profile, if it helps. I surely do miss the times wh

Re: WO Tutorials

Nice Don. ps probably a little overkill with the pop instruction for pressing the space bar :-) But otherwise, very clear. On 07/05/2008, at 2:20 PM, Don Lindsay wrote: Hello; Please visit http://web.mac.com/pccdonl/index.html, I created a short installation tutorial as an example. I th

Re: NSSelector - a curiosity

NSSelector works fine. But it is a bit wonky. Perhaps Java should allow 'null' as a type argument. Probably a bit much to ask just to make an old NextStep class more consistent. On 7/5/08 2:11 PM, "Anjo Krank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Try to cheat an use ? > > Am 07.05.2008 um 04:12 schr